Study Shows School Discipline Disproportionately Tough On Black Students

Chicago Tribune:

In the average New Jersey public school, African-American students are almost 60 times as likely as white students to be expelled for serious disciplinary infractions.

In Minnesota, black students are suspended 6 times as often as whites.

Read the whole story: Chicago Tribune

Comments

[suki21693]

01:29 AM on 09/26/2007

I read an article not too long ago that suggested expulsions have risen considerably since the introduction of all the standardized testing that came along with NCLB.

The suggestion was that the schools were using mild behavior problems to cull the students who were most academically challenged in order to skew their overall test results.

Anybody care to comment on that theory?

[MagisterLudi]

12:50 AM on 09/26/2007

The black and hispanic children are not keeping up with the whites and asians.
As a long time educator I will tell you 90% PARENTS FAULT. I've yet to see a Chinese immigrant parent hustling a teacher for a better grade.
Among Hispanic and black parents this is a fairly common "academic improvement " technique.

It's not only embarrassing but also incredibly damaging to the student's motivation.

I dare anyone to dispute this fact.

[ceasenake]

10:42 PM on 09/25/2007

Pointless study unless there are going to be positive results from it.

What can be done?

Send the teachers and school admin to sensitivity training?

The black and hispanic children are not keeping up with the whites and asians.

Who gets punished more when they break rules is a distraction from the real problem - lack of learning.

[suki21693]

01:25 AM on 09/26/2007

You know what? Maybe there would be more learning if teachers and adminstrators spent more time worried about teaching and less time worried about labeling kids and punishing them.

Anytime, any child gets in trouble the first thing these school officials should be asking is "what is in the best interest of this child? How can we use this incident to teach the child in a positive manner what is expect of him/her?" Instead they want to punish the kids and wash their hands of them. They'll be tasering 6 year olds soon, just watch.

This whole damn country is turning into nothing but an incarceration factory.

[suki21693]

01:37 AM on 09/26/2007

And if blacks get punished more, then I would say they suffer from more "lack of learning" so maybe they have a "real problem".

I went to a school board meeting in a rural county last week. The standardized test scores for last year were vetted at this meeting. In this sparsely populated county, which is evenly split, almost exactly 50/50 white to black, white students trail behind blacks in test scores, as well as graduation rates, by a significant margin. I don't know why that is the case here and apparently not in other places, but I suspect that actually being allowed to go to class rather than being punished for being black may help them to learn.

[loki]

07:24 PM on 09/25/2007

My thought is that the whole hip hop, gangsta, dont care about other people or women music television persona that black , and many white youths emulate is a huge reason for this. Its cool to be the bad boy rebel, always has been. But there is a price to pay for it, and that is being treated like you really are the gangsta bad boy rebel with his pants down around his knees and not being able to speak English. Even my kids in elementary school have started are coming home from school using ghetto speak. Now I axe dem, do it be betta ta teach english bafour gangsta ghetto? I think it is.

[Nommo]

08:01 PM on 09/25/2007

You'd best learn that language you attempt to ridicule. It has a structure, rules, all that kind of stuff.

[MagisterLudi]

12:43 AM on 09/26/2007

True, Nommo.
Ebonics gheto talk has it's own inherent slang logic.

However, one cannot succeed in a society that plays by different language games!

Is it that hard to understand?!

[nihilon x]

09:43 PM on 09/25/2007

This is exactly why I say this is an American issue, not just a black issue.

Ignorance isn't always bliss.

[nihilon x]

04:43 PM on 09/25/2007

Some individuals are doing that as we speak.

--

House panel debates hip-hop lyrics

By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer 10 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Two rappers, sitting side-by-side in an ornate House hearing room, went in different directions Monday on the need for hip hop artists to expunge their work of sexist and violent language.

One, Master P, apologized to women for past songs that demeaned them, while another was defiant.

Former gangsta rapper Master P, whose real name is Percy Miller, told a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee hearing that he is now committed to producing clean lyrics. The angry music of his past, he said, came from seeing relatives and friends shot and killed.

But he said now that he doesn't want his own children to listen to his music, "so if I can do anything to change this, I'm going to take a stand and do that."

"I want to apologize to all the women out there," he said. "I was honestly wrong."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070925/ap_on_go_co/congress_hip_hop;_ylt=AiEifwqE88Qbe6_tIeVrvRKyFz4D

[Nommo]

04:32 PM on 09/25/2007

We need to be, finally, responsible.

[kittycago]

04:20 PM on 09/25/2007

So what is your answer?Do we give up or try something different?We are teaching now the same way we did in the 1950's .How can anyone get maximum results in an archaeic system that has always been gamed towards the brightst to suceed the middle to stay there and the margins to drop off the scene

[MagisterLudi]

12:57 AM on 09/26/2007

Kittycago
We're NOT teaching the same way we were teaching in 50s. I think you're badly misinformed on this issue. the straight up lecture ( direct teaching) is used but little. and rote memorization went the way of the grammaphone.
Nowadays cooperative groups, mock trials, projects, rubrics-based assessment, multi-cultural teaching, bias sensitive testing are used almost universally.

[jaschrod]

04:12 PM on 09/25/2007

I know nothing about what goes on in the inner city schools, except what a friend of mine experienced. He wanted to go into the inner city schools of Cincinnati, and teach what he thought were kids that needed help. I spoke to him about six months later after he had been teaching, and asked him how rewarding it was. He said it was absolutely unbelievable. He found these kids to be lacking in every conceivable, normal humanity.He quit because they had no respect for anything. Knowing Ron for many years, I know that what he said was the truth.Ron never did anything that wasn't to help someone. My conclusion is that I do not want to hear how bad the students are being treated.Ron was the furthest person from being prejudice that you could meet, but he said the black kids of the school he went to were unbelievable, and totally without any discipline.

[Nommo]

04:28 PM on 09/25/2007

That is one man's experience. What of his own discipline or lack thereof? Did he have any respect for them or did he just assume certain things?
I got out of edu because I thought that the real problem in edu are administrators, school boards,
and all those that feed off the public edu trough and put nothing into it. Children are often the last thing thought about, and patronage and cronyism are rampant in that business. That is why so many bad teachers are in that system. I minored in edu so I had some idea about what I was to do upon arrival. Teaching was to become a refuge for too many who could do nothing else. That is not what we need in the schools.
Perhaps your friend was not cut out for the gig and that is as much a part of it as anything else.

[RusStyles]

04:28 PM on 09/25/2007

Remember the movie, To Sir With Love...Poitier's character was based on a real man who took wild and wooly (violent and disrespectful) white kids, and with tough love and discipline turned these kids around. Ever heard of Marva Collins? Ron simply didn't have the right stuff to deal with undisciplined kids. It ain't easy; it requires a unique, dedicated teacher. It also takes strong, creative leadership from the principle. Otherwise, there would be NO successful teachers and students in urban america. Many of these parents are kids themselves, and aren't ready to handle the responsibility of parenthood. Too many others are lost in a fog of drugs, alcohol, poor nutrition, poor self-esteem, etc. Similar learning problems exist in the coal mines of W PA, LA Bayou, Appalchia, etc... Why?

[realitytrumpsbull]

02:22 PM on 09/25/2007

3.02 lines of text, provides WHAT kind of information, exactly? What were the students expelled for? How well are the schools managed?
How long has there been a problem? Who's
responsible for communicating with the parents?
Will any of the schools be closed because of it?
Is there money involved, somehow?

[RusStyles]

02:17 PM on 09/25/2007

If I was white, I'd be highly incensed at these alarming statistics. I've known this was the case for many years, so I'm not surprised...I am frustrated. It's a deeply rooted, convoluted, multi-layered ordeal. And, it requires an organic, comprehensive, multi-racial solution. In other words, concerned human beings of all hues will need to work together to fix this unequal, racist educational system. This will be tough, because as another poster alluded, if the playing field is leveled it means not only greater competition for plum jobs, more white kids would get shutout of the better colleges. Which translates into fewer opportunities, and we know what happens to ANY young person who lacks hope for bright future or a healthy slice of the American pie...

People who suggest that the talented tenth must stay or move into urban neighborhoods to become leaders and positive role models, a la Mayor Booker, are idealistic. (Been there, and don't think I'd go there again.) Though, if a high percentage of succesful, educated blacks moved/lived in urban zones, they could morph these neighborhoods by pushing city hall to clean and repair the streets; buying and upgrading real estate, which would raise property tax values, which would help improve crumbling, underfunded schools; etc...That's asking alot. Successful people are typically so busy, they just want to get home and kick back and be comfy; and--most of all--feel safe, as well as knowing that their kids will receive a higher quality education. This is why it will take a collective effort; both grass roots and top leaders working as a team. Obama is the best, and possibly the only person to provide that leadership.

[nihilon x]

02:47 PM on 09/25/2007

"hough, if a high percentage of succesful, educated blacks moved/lived in urban zones, they could morph these neighborhoods by pushing city hall to clean and repair the streets; buying and upgrading real estate, which would raise property tax values, which would help improve crumbling, underfunded schools; etc..."

They are working on that in Los Angeles as we speak -- especially in the downtown area.

They are requiring that 20-30% of the apartment buildings that are being opened downtown offer affordable housing in those same buildings for the poor.

Instead of trying to run the poor out while they "gentrify" the area, they are requesting that real estate developers take an active role in providing affordable housing to everyone.

In return, they get tax breaks and other incentives.

[nihilon x]

02:49 PM on 09/25/2007

"They are requiring that 20-30% of the apartment buildings that are being opened downtown offer affordable housing in those same buildings for the poor."

Correction: that should be "they are requiring that 20-30% of the apartments in the building be affordable housing for the low-income renters".

[Nommo]

04:48 PM on 09/25/2007

Further along those lines, we need to restore, as a nation, a reason for young people to look forward to the future. Let us fix our nation and the whole damn world while there is still a chance to do so.

[ReasonIsMyReligion]

01:39 PM on 09/25/2007

Punishment for any given infraction should be color-blind. Simple.

(If anyone disagrees with THAT, we got bigger problems.)

If not so in practice, why not? Maybe a bit less simple.

[nihilon x]

02:53 PM on 09/25/2007

Because so long as people don't believe it still exists ("racism is a thing of the past") it will never be addressed.

[Nommo]

04:20 PM on 09/25/2007

Why think punishment first? These are children we have been speaking of. Are we so far from any kind of enlightenment that we still speak of having to punish and censure when the elected officers of the land get free rides on egregious
crime?
There are non violent drug offenders, without any past convictions doing more time than a Duke Cunningham. Seems we only want to punish those who are least in a position to defend themselves.
Kinda easy, huh?

[jturbayne]

01:24 PM on 09/25/2007

I beg to differ. I have taught several years at inner city schools and very often when "minority" students are questioned about their behavior, they very often call the "white" teacher racist. Parents of these students often give little support to the teacher or the administrator and also get in on the racist bandwagon. I was at a middle school where several black students badly beat up a skateboarder. Nothing was done for fear of reprisal. If the same thing had been done to a minority student by white students it would have been called a racially motivated event.

[nihilon x]

01:32 PM on 09/25/2007

"I beg to differ. I have taught several years at inner city schools and very often when "minority" students are questioned about their behavior, they very often call the "white" teacher racist."

You can "beg to differ" but how can you truly dispute what this study reveals?

Why is it so hard to simply admit that racism is indeed active in our scholastic system, rather than continually pointing the finger at black people alone for the problem?

Part of being objective is admitting that you don't know the whole story, and being willing to accept that your perspective is not the complete perspective.

Yes, many black people do indeed claim "racism" is an issue in our society, but when studies like this confirm this to be true, it only further examplifies the fact that said claims are valid and should be openly examined and discussed.

[jturbayne]

01:38 PM on 09/25/2007

Hate crimes come from all races. It would be nice when we take the hyphen away from American.

[nihilon x]

01:38 PM on 09/25/2007

What's funny is that if this board was about OJ Simpson kicking a dog or Sherri on "The View" claiming the world was flat, it would be filled with virulent attacks by now -- mostly by whites who claim that they are not racist.

However, when the story is a serious, objective analysis concerning how some American CHILDREN are being treated unfairly from the very beginning of their lives, based merely on their skin color, all of a sudden you can hear crickets chirp on the message boards.

The hypocrisy continues...

[Lucille]

02:10 PM on 09/25/2007

Well said.

[eaglecapri]

01:17 PM on 09/25/2007

Suggestion:

Before posting a comment or reply, please subscribe - FOR FREE - to read the article in its entirety. Why post on something you haven't read.

[eaglecapri]

01:16 PM on 09/25/2007

Other discrepancies:

Crime in America in Black and White:
1. Total population in 2006 - 300,000,000 - 74.7% were white (224,100,100) and 12.1% (30,630,000) were black.

2. Total # of arrests for all crimes including murder - 69.8% arrested were white, 27.8% were black.

3. Out of the 10,189,691 arrests, 7,117,040 were white and 2,830,778 were black.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_43.html

So, based on the above statistics, the percentages - as azn1011 wanted to be defined - are as follows:

* 3.2% of whites are arrested for crimes - including murder.

* 9.2% of whites are arrested for crimes - including murder.

Of violent crimes - approximately 5,000 (see fbi.gov Table 43 (link below)) for each group - 0.002% were white and 0.016% were black.

Numbers don't lie. If whites are arrested for more crimes than blacks, then why is there an astounding more blacks - men and women - in prison?

And, if whites commit - or are arrested - for more crimes than blacks, why are we fed mostly black crimes in the papers, on radio and on the morning, afternoon and evening news? Does a gun battle trump a stabbing, strangulation, beating, etc?

[shaggles]

02:06 PM on 09/25/2007

Exactly. I've been saying this for years. But don't leave out Hispanics. They make up approx. 10% of the prison population even though Whites and Blacks commit 98% or so of the crimes.

[Nommo]

01:16 PM on 09/25/2007

As per usual, you only need enough. The problem comes when you have to figure who provides the definition of enough.