Senate Overwhelmingly Backs Biden Iraq Plan

AP:

The Senate passed a resolution Wednesday suggesting Baghdad limit the power of its federal government and give more control to Iraq's ethnically divided regions.

The 75-23 vote marked the first agreement on Iraq among lawmakers in months, although it would have little practical effect. Republicans agreed to swing behind the nonbinding measure after it was amended to make clear that Bush should press for a new federalized system only if the Iraqis want it.

Still, the resolution underscores a bipartisan longing in Congress for a fresh diplomatic approach in Iraq. It also was a victory for presidential hopeful Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., a primary sponsor of the resolution along with Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan.

Read the whole story: AP

Comments

[Rubiconski]

And in other news......

Lieberman-Kyl’s Iran amendment passes.
By a vote of 76-22, the Senate passed the Lieberman-Kyl amendment, which threatens to “combat, contain and [stop]” Iran via “military instruments.” Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) called the amendment “Cheney’s fondest pipe dream” and said it could “read as a backdoor method of gaining Congressional validation for military action.”

Why do we even bother to have elections?

What good is the Democratic Party if they consistently ignore their constituents (and morality)?

What do the 70% of Americans who are repulsed by this administration, and bills like this one, supposed to do?

Who represents us?

No one! We have no representation. Perhaps we should have no taxation. Perhaps we should listen to Thomas Jefferson:

“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

[Nyland8]

jklfatnsa ufaigf npiasjmmn avajia c yaytauitm aagfivaijagjat????

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19-11

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[poopdeck]

Astonishing. 75 US Senators pretending to be colonial Viceroys. What a shameful performance.

[speakingtruth2power]

This was already decided by the time Ray l hunt made his deal with the Kurds!

[Rubiconski]

Great idea!! Make the Iraqis (who have not fled their homes yet) move....

Yeah and why not build some APARTHEID WALLS??

[Think82]

A few key facts about the Biden amendment:

* The legislation does not tell Iraqis what to do. It speaks only to what U.S. policy should be.
* Federalism is not a U.S. or foreign imposition on Iraq. Iraq's own constitution calls a "decentralized, federal system" and sets out the powers of the regions (extensive) and those of the central government (limited). The Constitution also says that in case of conflict between regional and national law, regional law prevails.
* Federalism is not partition. In fact, it's probably the only way to prevent partition or, even worse, the total fragmentation of Iraq.
* Federalism will not accelerate sectarian cleansing; it's the only way to stop it. Iraqis are already voting with their feet, as yesterday's article in the New York Times demonstrates. Before the surge, Iraqis were fleeing their homes at a rate of about 40,000 month; now, it's about 100,000 a month. Unless Iraqis come to some kind of agreement on sharing power peacefully, the cleansing will continue.

[Rubiconski]

AND HOW DOES BIDEN FIGURE TO IMPLEMENT THIS BRILLIANT "PLAN"?

I'M SURE THERE'LL BE TONS OF COOPERATION!!

LMAO!!

AMERICANS ARE SOOOO STUPID!!

[Rubiconski]

congress must really be getting desperate!!

arrogant plan from a useless windbag!!

[Justinpassing]

BIDEN, you insufferable gas bag, when you make my Godamn income tax a non-binding issue you'll earn your pay for a change.

[Nyland8]

Hey ... what do you have to do to get a 7:33 posting put up in front of a 6:05 ??? Do you work for HuffPo?

??

8

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[RanTalbott]

HuffPo is having a "Who can fuck up the site most?" contest.

For a while, "Let the spammers flood the boards with cut-and-paste crap", was way ahead.

Someone came up with displaying the threads LIFO. Which is not only counterintuitive for a lot of people, but also makes it extremely difficult to carry on discussions because they keep moving.

Unless someone comes up with, say, running the comment text through Babelfish and displaying it in Urdu, I think we have a winner.

[avvorio]

It is the Iraqis country. When this partitioning begins look for allout civil war and attacks against US troops. This is the stupidest crap I have heard today although I admit this Congress is a bunch of total morons.

[plutorage]

Partitioning the country means our troops will have to stay there in perpetuity guaranteeing the borders and ingtegrity of the three states created, since we created them after all.

It is not a solution, it is an open ended committment of American resources of no discernible value.

Biden and Brownback think just as hard as their gray matter will allow but it just isn't enough to warrant giving either of them a seat in the Senate where their shortcomings are capable of doing much harm.

[plainsman]

What's your solution...if your gray matter can see so clearly?

[Think82]

A few key facts about the Biden amendment:

* The legislation does not tell Iraqis what to do. It speaks only to what U.S. policy should be.
* Federalism is not a U.S. or foreign imposition on Iraq. Iraq's own constitution calls a "decentralized, federal system" and sets out the powers of the regions (extensive) and those of the central government (limited). The Constitution also says that in case of conflict between regional and national law, regional law prevails.
* Federalism is not partition. In fact, it's probably the only way to prevent partition or, even worse, the total fragmentation of Iraq.
* Federalism will not accelerate sectarian cleansing; it's the only way to stop it. Iraqis are already voting with their feet, as yesterday's article in the New York Times demonstrates. Before the surge, Iraqis were fleeing their homes at a rate of about 40,000 month; now, it's about 100,000 a month. Unless Iraqis come to some kind of agreement on sharing power peacefully, the cleansing will continue.

[transendentilist]

Total, safe, withdrawl of all U.S. troops and contractors. Pay Iraqis for doing their own reconstruction, but let them fight their own civil war. We are only creating a common enemy for all three religious sects. Get us out of the mix entirely.

[TheLastPenguin]

Casualties in Iraq
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 3800
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03 3661
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 3339
Since Handover (6/29/04): 2941
Since Election (1/31/05): 2363
Total Wounded: 27936

[cynara]

Estimate of deaths of innocent Iraqi civilians since we invaded their country:
73,713 – 80,333 (Iraqi Body Count)
426,369 to 793,663 (the Lancet)

Innocent men, woman, children and infants, I feel a heck of a lot more sorry for them, that soldiers who signed up knowing the risks. The Iraqi public didn't sign up for any of this.

[LITU]

Boy, cynara, you and I are on the same page! I like to keep it simple. To a conservative, the death of an innocent person is collateral damage, to a liberal it's murder. Let's call it for what it is folks - MURDER on a grand scale, and this wonderful country who believes in freedom for all is the wielder of the ax.

[research]

We are so fucked. What else can we do? We elected the dems who said they would end the war. We email called and wrote till our fingers bleed. Still the senate somehow strong arms the dems into more war! Can we recall the dems we elected who are voting so wrong?

[olivia]

Democratic primary challenges

[transendentilist]

I think that if the Iraqis want this, then we should definately not interfere. We shouldn't be interfering at all. Still, the bill makes sense, and would illiminate the excuses such as, "when Iraq can protect itself, sustain itself, and govern it's self," we will leave.
It's like sending three bickering children to their respective corners for a time out. This is ultimately an Iraqi decision.

[Nyland8]

BUT !! ...

... Biden's "solution" involves leaving some of our military forces in Iraq ... so, improvement though it may be over anything that appears in Bush's best mirage, it won't get us out of the Middle East, so it won't remove the targets from our fighting forces asses ... AND ... it won't in any way diminish the unending radicalization fostered by our presence on Arab soil.

Which means we continue to cultivate terrorists that will eventually come to our doorstep with explosives strapped to their chests.

So Biden's plan, however encouraging, won't solve the problem, won't reduce our risk and won't get us out ...

... so it won't fly ...

... which, come to think of it, is probably why the Senate is in favor of it.

8

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[Think82]

A few key facts about the Biden amendment:

* The legislation does not tell Iraqis what to do. It speaks only to what U.S. policy should be.
* Federalism is not a U.S. or foreign imposition on Iraq. Iraq's own constitution calls a "decentralized, federal system" and sets out the powers of the regions (extensive) and those of the central government (limited). The Constitution also says that in case of conflict between regional and national law, regional law prevails.
* Federalism is not partition. In fact, it's probably the only way to prevent partition or, even worse, the total fragmentation of Iraq.
* Federalism will not accelerate sectarian cleansing; it's the only way to stop it. Iraqis are already voting with their feet, as yesterday's article in the New York Times demonstrates. Before the surge, Iraqis were fleeing their homes at a rate of about 40,000 month; now, it's about 100,000 a month. Unless Iraqis come to some kind of agreement on sharing power peacefully, the cleansing will continue.

[freespeach]

This is the only answer that makes sense in the long term.

http://www.gp.org/

Since our two party system is a bad joke where corporate America wins either way, we need to change the rules.
Europe and Canada with at least 3 or more political parties (UK is excluded and in trouble just like us) can punish "their" party by going with another option.
The result is that parties have a degree of fear when it comes to their own base, as they should.

What do we get from Democratic leadership now?
They treat us with disdain and talk down to us. They (in a Rovian fashion) use the "fear card" of more Republican rule, or the guilt card with their blame Nader bullshit.
People are fed up with this no option crap.

Change the rules, we need a real third party.

Peace.

[transendentilist]

I agree that America needs a third choice, but now is not the time.
Nader did hurt the dems in 00, and voting for a third party or independant now, will only help the neo-cons.
Maybe after this middle east disaster is resolved, when so much isn't at stake, you can waste your vote on an independant or a third party.
What gets me about these calls for a third party or independants, is the lack of any names for a real possibility of winning.
What good has become of Nader's running in 00?

[THISTLE]

I heard on MSNBC today that the only things
the Democrats are getting through are what the
REPUBLICANS want?
What's wrong with this picture?
What the hell is wrong with the Democrats?

[Rubiconski]

Akaka
Conrad
Durbin
Levin
Mikulski
Murray
Reed
Stabenow

That is the list of senators who voted against the invasion of Iraq and now voted FOR military action in Iran.

They must have sold their vote....What other reason could there possibaly be?

[markand]

Non Binding Joe Biden put out another bill for the president not to sign. Is anyone getting sick and tired of the lack of spine from our reps?
Every single member of congress and the senate should be put on trial for failure to give a f@#k for the working class of this country. Please: just keep your heads in the sand.

[ElkoJohn]

the Dems do it again, in a NON-Binding way; uh, why not just say the Biden Plan or no funding -- is it what the Iraqi Parliment wants ?? who gives a damn what they want ??

[cynara]

We should, if we believe in the sovereignty of nations and will of the people (i.e. democracy). And if 75%+ of the Iraqi people want us out of their country, I suggest we leave.

[Robert59]

The trial is called an election. Vote 'em out. Personally this is a good step and it needs to be nonbinding. Our charter isn't to dictate how Iraqis run their country. It's up to them to decide if they want a strong central government or a weak one.

What this does is legitimize alternatives. Instead of the current mantra people, especially Iraqis, can talk options. I'm sure an overwhelming number of Iraqis are sick of the violence; this gives them a forum. Perhaps a federalist system is a step that will avoid all out civil war.

At some later time they can figure out if partition is better or return to a strong central government.

Let's see what happens in Iraq's parliament and on the Iraqi street. If we find lots of Iraqis receptive to Biden's proposal we can encourage them to pursue it.

[NuAgeDok]

Biden's has great ideas for solving Iraq and accelerating our departure but he just pissed this opportunity away with this non-bing B.S.

He should have tied it to armor upgrades or more IED resistant vehicles or something with some teeth in it that the pusillanimous Bush-Bots couldn't squirm out from under.

Meanwhile the Condi/Croc­ker/Petaeu­s troika has already dissed the federalism push because they say they say they don't want to force a solution on the Maliki government . . .

Meanwhile - it's all going in the shitter with the Sunni insurgents (which ones - oh I guess the other ones that aren't working with us to defeat AQIM) are systematically assassinating all the remaining police chiefs and Army officers who were interested in getting together so Biden better get some balls and try again because this non-binding B.S. is pointless.

[NuAgeDok]

Correction: NON-BINDING B.S.

[TheHandyman]

Whoop-de-doo, another non-binding, but only if the President agrees worthless bill. Too bad there isn't a way to wipe all but a handful of them out and start over. These people have no credibility with me anymore. Wait till they wake up and find we bombed the crap out of Iran and half of the world is out to get us. Will they then pass another non-binding bill saying that the President should stop doing it but only if he feels it is appropriate? If Bush was to have all of Congress arrested would they then pass another non-binding bill saying he couldn't do that either? When did we start sending oatmeal men and women to represent us in Washington?