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Michael Roston

The Huffington Post

Dems Postpone Rollout Of Controversial Wiretapping Bill

October 5, 2007 10:43 AM


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2007-10-05-hoyer.jpgRep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD), the House Majority Leader, postponed a press conference announcing new reforms of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act after progressive lawmakers banded together and said they would fight any legislation that did not include a set of eight principles on wiretapping that preserve the "rule of law."

"What's most significant is that the Progressive Caucus came together and said to the leadership that all 72 of us require that these provisions be included," said Caroline Fredercikson, Legislative Director for the American Civil Liberties Union. "This changes the dynamic significantly."

Rep. Hoyer had planned to roll out the new FISA reform bill at 1:30 PM today. A spokesperson from his office told the Huffington Post that the House Intelligence Committee had decided to postpone completion of the legislation, though it's not clear that the announcement from the Progressive Caucus influenced their decision. Votes in the House were also canceled today. The committee was not available at press time.

The ACLU said it has not seen the language of the reforms that the Democratic leadership was preparing to get behind.

But while congressional progressives feared that their leaders would make permanent the expansions of wiretapping power that congressional Republicans brokered in August, some House Republicans were less sanguine about the outcome of the legislation. An adviser to Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI), the ranking Republican on the Intelligence Committee, claimed that the Democrats had closed their Republican counterparts out of the process of drafting the legislation.

A copy of the principles on FISA reform sent to the Democratic leadership by the 72 members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus can be read after the jump.

Progressive Caucus Official Position and Fundamental Principles Governing FISA Reform, as adopted

October 3, 2007

We, Members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, fully recognizing we live in a dangerous world but proud of, and deeply committed to, the values that have made the United States an exemplar for the world, affirm the following principles to guide consideration over the debate regarding surveillance of foreign intelligence. We hold that these principles represent the pillars by which America gives no quarter to terrorists who would do our country harm, while at the same time ensuring fidelity to the distinctively American commitment to the rule of law, the dignity of the individual, and separation of powers.

1. It should be the policy of the United States that the objective of any authorized program of foreign intelligence surveillance must be to ensure that American citizens and persons in America are secure in their persons, papers, and effects, but makes terrorists throughout the world feel insecure.

2. The best way to achieve these twin goals is to follow the rule of law. And the exclusive law to follow with respect to authorizing foreign surveillance gathering on U.S. soil is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). As initially enacted by Congress, the exclusivity of FISA was unambiguous. Legislation must reiterate current law that FISA is the exclusive means to authorize foreign surveillance gathering on U.S. soil.

3. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) should be modernized to accommodate new technologies and to make clear that foreign to foreign communications are not subject to the FISA, even though modern technology enables that communication to be routed through the United States.

4. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) is indispensable and must play a meaningful role in ensuring compliance with the law. This oversight should include, where possible, regular judicial approval and review of surveillance, of whose communications will be collected, of how it will be gathered, and of how content and other data in communications to and from the United States will be handled.

5. Congress must have regular access to information about how many U.S. communications are being collected and the authority to require court orders when it becomes clear that a certain program or surveillance of a target is scooping up communications of U.S. persons.

6. Once the government has reason to believe that a specific account, person or facility will have contact with someone in the United States, the government should be required to return to the FISC to obtain a court order for continued surveillance. Reliance on the FISC will help ensure the privacy of U.S. persons' communications.

7. Congress should not grant amnesty to any telecommunications company or to any other entity or individual for helping the NSA spy illegally on innocent Americans. The availability of amnesty will have the unintended consequence of encouraging telecommunications companies to comply with, rather than contest, illegal requests to spy on Americans.

8. Authorization to conduct foreign surveillance gathering on U.S. soil must never be made permanent. The threats to America's security and the liberties of its people will change over time and require constant vigilance by the people's representatives in Congress.

Note: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that ACLU "had not been briefed" on the proposed legislation.

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- research See Profile I'm a Fan of research permalink

It's a start.

There is a huge loophole: BushCo is allowed unsupervised listening to foreign to foreign communications.

England, Israel similarly allow listening to "foreigners" conversations.

They all trade that information!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 10/06/2007
- VictorLudorum See Profile I'm a Fan of VictorLudorum permalink

Pro or Anti ,the very big stake they most discuss in latent attribute when conversation passes over [treason]the nation across the atlantic too...
The affairs are all on the table and clear..

The Cat is in Democratic Party's bag since Richard .M .Nixon.







1 Vanity, 2 ,Greed, 3 ,Tongue [ Que Line ] 4 ,Fear, 5, Pressure they get ,6, Preferences ,7 peeping inside [to roll power] 8,Self Deciet.




The Regimes actually fell in 1995.
At his visit to Egypt , Col., Gaddafi delayed Hasni Mubarak, at reception for ten full minutes when his new American Limo cruised gently across his tentage...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 10/06/2007
- drblack See Profile I'm a Fan of drblack permalink

If the De4ms let this pass, and Hillary, Pelosi, Reid etc will try to steal your American Freedom,
i am going to be more angry then ever.
The so called Patriot act and every other bill passed since 2000 MUST be repealed and Freedom, the Constitution and the Rule Of Law MUst be reinststed.
Our Government has betrayed the Constitution with these laws and should be criminally prosecuted for treason.
When Freedom is taken by government it is never returned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 AM on 10/06/2007
- leftLibertarian See Profile I'm a Fan of leftLibertarian permalink

Democrats, your 'leaders' like Pelosi are swine who love to suck off Bush for He's their Fuhrer!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 PM on 10/05/2007
- ghostsofamerica See Profile I'm a Fan of ghostsofamerica permalink

Now, this is a great start, Progressive Causus! Long live We the PEOPLE!

Down with the emperor or anyone trying to be the emperor.

Now, could someone tell Nancy Pelosi, and Steny Hoyer to quit jumping as high as AIPAC tells them?

Oh, and would someone investigate Nancy Pelosi's, and Diane Feinstein's husbands' business deals? It seems important to the process of open government for full disclosure of the whole families income, especially the war profiteers of the spouses in congress.

Hell, investigate the whole congress and see if any of their wives or children or parents are getting big money deals from war profiteering, or wiretapping profiteering, etc.





    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 PM on 10/05/2007
- MI6troll See Profile I'm a Fan of MI6troll permalink

"da Joooooooooos"

ghosts is a fan of EtJ. EtJ posts links to the anti-Semitic white supremacist website run by neonazi Alex Linder.


ghosts is a fan of Destin, who posts such things as:
"I think instead of telling them not to bomb Iran, I think we should tell them to "get lost" and bomb Jerusalem off the fucking map, along with Tel Aviv.
If we want to get rid of outside forces trying to control our country and bring it down from the inside.... we need to start bombing the country responsible. And it's not Iran. ;)
posted 10/05/2007 at 14:39:28 "


Why does ghosts list herself as a fan of such blatant anti-Semites?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 PM on 10/05/2007
- Waitaminute See Profile I'm a Fan of Waitaminute permalink

Why did it take the ACLU and the 72 PROGRESSIVE to stop the other dems from bringing this bill back to the floor without the 8 changes?

Does this mean that nearly 160 DEMS in the house are not progressive (liberal)?

My suspicions are stronger towards, realizing why Pelosi took impeachment off the table.

Why so many dems voted for this FISA wiretapping in the first place.

Why so many DEMS (30) VOTED AGAINST MOVEON.ORG.

Why they voted to give bush the surge and not defund the Irag invasion. THE 29% PRESIDENT

Why they haven't done anything about the fraudulent voting machines, even though we have about 4 months left before the primaries.

WHY ETC ETC ETC,,,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 10/05/2007
- research See Profile I'm a Fan of research permalink

Why Dems weak? Some may have dirty little secrets that the wiretapping has revealed to BushCo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 10/06/2007
- cuthbertallgood See Profile I'm a Fan of cuthbertallgood permalink

Not all Demcrats are progressive. The DLC Democrats are basically Republicans. The Democratic Leadership Council. It is not the same as the DNC, the Democratic National Committee which is the Democratic Party.
I strongly recommend learning about the DLC, and voting against any Democrats in that group much as one would vote against Republicans. Vote for progressive Democrats instead.
Knowing this group and its activities will held you understand all the whys you have. Look them up. You will be amazed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 10/06/2007
- mommadona See Profile I'm a Fan of mommadona permalink

Think Pin-stripes and Prada.
Think Military-Industrial complex.
Think "Company Man".
Think Insurance/Transportation/Banking.
Think the Hamptons and Bahama.
Think Feinstein on the Left Coast and Hoyer East-Right....
"Stuck in da middle with Rahm"
Think D I N O

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 10/06/2007
- factanonverba See Profile I'm a Fan of factanonverba permalink

If Bush and Cheney were charged with the murder of our Republic, then Democratic leadership should be charged with being accessories to murder. This drift towards a fascist state has been facilitated by the Democrat leadership who have largely abdicated their responsibility. If you read one book this year, read Naomi Wolf's "The End of America: A Letter to a Young Patriot." The "fascist-shift" creep is undeniable and I wonder even if a Democratic Administration does come to power in 2009, who among the current crop of candidates would undo the unitary executive that this Administration has enabled? Certainly not Sir Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 10/05/2007
- nuQlerOstrich See Profile I'm a Fan of nuQlerOstrich permalink

Who among the crop of current candidates... ???

How about the candidate who has submitted a bill in congress calling for the Impeachment of the violator of Article Six - All Treaties clause - for making threats against Iran, which is a violation of the UN Charter. How about him? Huh?
Have you called your House member and told them to support HR 333?

The candidate who was previously the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, who is one of the people in Congress who stood up to Steny [anti-American constitution hating] Hoyer,today?

How about him?

What's the matter? Are you believing the media spin that someone like that is "un-electable?"

Nobody is un-electable. Period. Not if more people vote for him. Period. Nobody. Period.

Get it?

Think for yourself. OK?

Oh, that guy is the short one. 5ft7 Like John Adams, John Quincy Adams, and William McKinley and a full 3 inches taller than James Madison.

But he doesn't look like Tom Seleck. Well, yeah, I agree. If he looked more like Magnum PI, He would probably get more cred. But just look at Fred. Uh... er... pfft. Looked good on TV fiction. But not very inspiring in real life.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, this candidate is the guy who stood up to the corporate blackmail when he was Mayor of Cleveland and honored his campaign promise to save the city owned electric company, even if it meant the end of his political career. And it did - for a time. He even braved a mob hit contract. That's courage! Finally, the citizens of Cleveland realized the hundreds of millions of dollars he saved them and seeked him out to honor him for being an honest politician. And then sent him to the State Senate, and then Congress. And re-elected him. Over and over and over and over. So quit saying he's un-electable. OK?

Dennis Kucinich.

Yeah, that guy!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 10/05/2007
- freespeach See Profile I'm a Fan of freespeach permalink

Great comment Ostrich.

And really, who says Dennis is unelectable?
Not most of the commenter's here.
Not any informed aware people.

Corporate mass media says so, thats who.

Just like when he was mayor in Cleveland taking on the power company, Dennis is a non corporate patriotic American.

The Democratic party has been killed by the DLC vermin, and Dennis is one casualty.

This latest FISA vote sellout is a brutally painful example of that. The lack of real coverage by huffpost also shows how corporate and greedy they are too.

The move for me was to go with these people.
They are honest brave decent Americans working for the good of the nation. Check them out please.

http://www.gp.org/

Peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 10/07/2007
- cuthbertallgood See Profile I'm a Fan of cuthbertallgood permalink

People say Dennis is unelectable, but in fact he has won victory in more elections than any of the 'big three candidates', more than any two of them put together and maybe more than all three, I don't have a count for Obama, but Edwards won one, lost one. Lost a biggy. Clinton has won two.
Dennis has won election to the House I think 5 times, four at least, and also was elected to Ohio State Senate, and was elected Mayor of Cleavland-the youngest ever.
I'm counting 7 electoral victories for the 'unelectable' Kucinich, for three different offices. Facts can be so annoying!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 10/06/2007
- realitytrumpsbull See Profile I'm a Fan of realitytrumpsbull permalink

Does anyone really believe that 'they' are in
any way either bound or guided by any given law?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? I for one do not, I think Ma Bell/her kids have been listening etc. for years...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:18 PM on 10/05/2007
- OrvilleHLarson See Profile I'm a Fan of OrvilleHLarson permalink

Hey, Congress!

Anybody there believe in civil liberties? Anyobody at all? How about you, Senator Klobuchar of Minnesota? You sorry you rolled over for the Liar-in-Chief's bullshit "Protect America Act" in August?

Civil liberties are vital. Without 'em, a country just isn't worth living in.

This isn't a political issue--it's a FREEDOM issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 10/05/2007
- factotem See Profile I'm a Fan of factotem permalink

Picture Caption: "Guess where this finger has been!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:00 PM on 10/05/2007
- Unhinged See Profile I'm a Fan of Unhinged permalink

Picture Caption: "Guess where this finger has been!" ...up Senator Craig's ass....just smell it, come on, smell it!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 PM on 10/05/2007
- nuQlerOstrich See Profile I'm a Fan of nuQlerOstrich permalink

So, that's why he has such a "wide stance."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 10/05/2007
- Plus15 See Profile I'm a Fan of Plus15 permalink

I always love to see pictures of Steny Hoyer, obviously he goes to the same barber as Cornyn and Hastert.

Steny Hoyer and Nancy Pelosi may come from different "wings" of the Democratic Party and we know that Pelosi's candidate for the Majority Leader post was several other people, however between them since last November they have done all they can to defeat the Democratic Presidential candidate in 2008. Not only that but the Pelosi "no impeachment" decision and her refusal ala George Bush to change nothing on that decision as the Bush-Cheney rape and torture of our constitution goes ahead full steam out of our sight, by now makes her and her backers culpable in the horror the GOP is spreading throughout the government. God help the USA.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 10/05/2007
- Agentprovokatur See Profile I'm a Fan of Agentprovokatur permalink

I am sorry to say it but I agree regarding Pelosi. I am a constituent, voted for her and even have a copy of her acceptance speech after being elected as Speaker of the House. I felt proud of the progress her election should have represented.

That pride was more than cancelled out by her announcement regarding impeachment being off the table. In that one statement she either showed her true colors as a lackey to the system unwilling to do her job serving the people of the United States and her home district or as a totally incompetent leader incapable of any form of strategic or tactical thought and devoid of any political savvy. There was absolutely no reason to make the statement and it was not hers to make as no one Representative has the power to stop an impeachment from being brought and all of them have the responsibility to bring it if there are matters that warrant it.

So we are left to wonder, is she really that incompetent, a horrible politician or does Bush and Company have some dirt on her she is doesn't want to come to light. Or for the conspiratorialists on the boards here, maybe she was actually threatened with something more sinister or is privy to something truly dark under the surface we are unaware of (Picture Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, shouting something along the lines of 'You Want Answers, You Can"t HANDLE the Truth!'.

In any case, while she might still be a capable representative of my district (not even sure of that ) she is not fit to hold the position of Speaker of the House and leader of the Democrats in the House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 10/06/2007
- average joe See Profile I'm a Fan of average joe permalink

They walk hand in hand the same. Bush Clinton

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 10/05/2007
- milo9 See Profile I'm a Fan of milo9 permalink



Monday the ACLU and other civil libertarian groups launched an action to put pressure on Congress to defend the Constitution and fix FISA, not expand warrantless spying on American Citizens. It would seem that their effort slowed the Dems support for totalitarianism.
The action is ongoing and more support is needed.
Three phone calls for liberty.
This is something that you can do that really can make a difference. A flood of phone calls will not be ignored.
Here's the URL:
https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=722&pg=makeACall&page=UserAction&JServSessionIdr008=uni4e58o58.app24a
Please join us in this effort

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 10/05/2007
- nuQlerOstrich See Profile I'm a Fan of nuQlerOstrich permalink

Toll Free Capitol Switchboard
1 (800) 459 - 1887

I called every one of them up to the "K"s during free time today. I'll continue and finish the list on Monday.

They were really appreciative of the support.

And I didn't need any prompting. After I read about what they did, it was a natural for me. But I call all the time anyway to tell them what to do. The number is in my speed-dial. Hey, they're supposed to be working for us anyway, right? So I just naturally do that - the same as I do to my employees before they come for their paychecks. Anyway...

At the end of each phone call I told them to "feel free to support the rest of the Constitution."

http://cpc.lee.house.gov/

I called and told them I was going to do something that would probably surprise them, and that was to say "Thank You." And in almost every instance, there was an audible reaction. They really appreciated it. They actually like the Constitution just like us.

Imagine that!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 10/05/2007
- milo9 See Profile I'm a Fan of milo9 permalink

Just got to do it, that's all. Tip O' The Cap, nuQ!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 10/05/2007
- mhj555 See Profile I'm a Fan of mhj555 permalink

No amnesty for telecoms.
What's good enough for immigrants is good enough for the telecoms.
They knew damn well that bushco was full of shit when they gave up the information.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 10/05/2007
- PollM See Profile I'm a Fan of PollM permalink



I have an extreme hard time understanding how we as a nation are willing to give away our freedom and rights. Politicians have successfully played on people's emotions through psychological fears to sell them the idea that the only way we can secure you is by taking away your bill of rights.

Through out history we've seen times were government plays on the fear of people. But the truth lies within our founders - Ben Franklin, said "Those who would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Take nothing for granted, these are the liberties that our forefathers have fought for. Power is Corrupt.

Should the old rules of FISA (getting a warrant to spy on U.S. citizens) be re-instated to protect the privacy of American citizens? -------->

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=644

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 10/05/2007
- socraticgadfly See Profile I'm a Fan of socraticgadfly permalink

Let's say this does pass, and goes to the Senate, and gets a yes vote from Hillary, among others.

How many of you, after all your bitching and moaning, will still vote for her for president?

Stop enabling. Vote Green.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 10/05/2007
- nuQlerOstrich See Profile I'm a Fan of nuQlerOstrich permalink

If you have ever - in your life - have ever taken an oath - Article Six - you must honor your promise.

remember, "I do solemnly swear...so help me GoD..."

Which candidate has consistently honored that promise? Even going so far as to call for the Impeachment of Dick Cheney for violating Article Six? HR 333 submitted to Congress.

I'll tell you. Dennis Kucinich.

That's who.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 PM on 10/05/2007
- scooperss See Profile I'm a Fan of scooperss permalink

"Dems postpone rollout'

Dems rollover.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 10/05/2007
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