Black Women Voters Torn Between Obama and Clinton

New York Times   |  KATHARINE Q. SEELYE   |   October 13, 2007 03:29 PM


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In the beauty parlors that are the social hubs for black women in the Carolinas, loyalties are being tested as voters here contemplate the first Democratic primary in the South.

Clara Vereen, who has been working here in rural eastern South Carolina as a hairstylist for more than 40 of her 61 years, reflects the ambivalence of many black women as she considers both Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

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- lizawell See Profile I'm a Fan of lizawell permalink

Some of the comments on this story are so ridiculous that they don't deserve direct responses. Intelligent generalizations cannot be drawn about the minds of black women based on the opinions of a few beauty salon patrons in the Bible belt. I am a black woman, and most of the women interviewed in this article sound like aliens to me. Could the ramblings of a few white chicks in a beauty salon, trailer park, or meth clinic in the deep south sum up the politics of white women?
I can't think of a single black female relative or friend who is basing her vote on race or gender. Not one. Personally, I like Obama, but I have some reservations. For one thing, I am sorely disappointed in his failure to show up for the recent Iran vote. Also, I just don't understand why someone so intelligent and seemingly sincere wants the job. I know this sounds cynical and counter productive because we should want sincere, idealistic, intellectuals in the Oval office, but, frankly, I just don't get it. I'm not saying this is a reason not to support him. I'm just trying to understand him. Also, the only point of agreement between me and the women in the article is a well-founded fear for his safety, though, again, I don't believe that this is a reason not to vote for him. Hillary--forget about it: she's a Big Pharm trust fund baby, she voted for the war in Iraq, and repeated the mistake with the recent Iran vote. And then there's her membership in the Fellowship, a group of creepy, Machiavellian religious zealots, http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html, among other things.
I like both Edwards and Richardson, though neither of them will beat the Clinton machine, and I"m not sure either of them can beat Guiliani. I like Kucinich, I"m all for a First Vegan President, but didn"t he have some bad times in Cleveland? And again, he doesn"t have a chance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 10/14/2007
- gmr See Profile I'm a Fan of gmr permalink

identity politics has hurt the Democratic party. Why not vote based on the candidates policies and character rather than the candidates gender, race, ethnicity, or religion?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 10/14/2007
- jmc42 See Profile I'm a Fan of jmc42 permalink

*
Obama over a Mama = the best choice.
Caution: Bumper sticker ahead!!

Hillary gave the US Iraq;
Lets give the US Barack!

*

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 10/14/2007
- dora_rice See Profile I'm a Fan of dora_rice permalink

torn between a african with muslim roots and a christian, I don't think it's a hard choice for me. Don't think this will ever torment me. I know who Jesus wants in office. Islam religion is so strong, that just a pinch of Islam in your body will dominate your life. We know that by now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 10/14/2007
- nihilon_x See Profile I'm a Fan of nihilon_x permalink

I actually took you somewhat seriously up until you made this statement.

Anyone who knows anything about Obama also understands that he is a devout Christian.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 10/14/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

Interesting that the choice is seen as a dilemma. Obama is vision and substance. Hillary is symbol and lies.

Does it really serve the cause of women for the first female presidential nominee and possible president to be qualifed based on what her husband has done? Is there not an idependent woman qualified on her own merits to carry the standard for women?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:14 AM on 10/14/2007
- Libera1Texian See Profile I'm a Fan of Libera1Texian permalink

To paraphrase Ralph Nader, a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 AM on 10/14/2007
- gmr See Profile I'm a Fan of gmr permalink

Votes for Ralph Nader were the evil that gave us the worst president in our history, Bush, and kept us from Gore who might of been our best.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 AM on 10/14/2007
- SensibleAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of SensibleAmerican permalink

Finally someone from the Nader-herd actually accepted being a member! The only problem with this quote is that if you vote for a 3rd evil (Circa 2000), you could help the bigger evil!

On this post, this is old news. The Afro-American women are voting for Hillary v Barack Hussein 2:1
Afro-American men are leaning towards BHO which keeps the over all black vote at 50:50

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 AM on 10/14/2007
- askmeificare See Profile I'm a Fan of askmeificare permalink

Black Women Voters Torn Between Obama and Clinton

Does that mean if no blacks or women were running for president, these voters would stay home?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 10/14/2007
- nihilon_x See Profile I'm a Fan of nihilon_x permalink

No, it means that stories like this serve little purpose other than to muddle the issues.

A few older black women in a salon in no way, shape, form, or fashion represent the "black female" opinion anymore than a few older white women in a salon would represent the entire "white female" opinion.

I could just as easily go out to Lousiana, find some David Duke supporters, and then write a story headlined "White Voters Torn Between David Duke and George Bush".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 10/14/2007
- ConcernAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of ConcernAmerican permalink

The endorsement of Oprah Winfrey, adds more to the fact Obama is for entertainment purposes, not to be taken seriously. I watch Oprah but for ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 10/14/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

Interesting characterization of Oprah's endorsement. I see Oprah as a smart, saavy social analyst and commentator, whose opinions resonate with millions and millions of Americans. Labeling her as an "entertainer" misses a lot. The simply question with regard to Oprah is: "Would you rather have her for you or against you?"

The only ones who discount the significance and possible influence of her Obama endorsement, and the Hillary backers who tried and tried and tried in vain to get the endorsement for Hillary. hmmmmmm The phrase "sour grapes" comes to mind.

The problem with the Hillary camp is that like Bush, if you don't support her in every way you are evil and the enemy. Even on the message boards they attack any dissenter as a "Hillary Hater", troll, "right wing conspirator in disguise." Absolute paranoia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 AM on 10/14/2007
- ConcernAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of ConcernAmerican permalink

Barak Obama is MORE DANGEROUS than Bush, when Obama stated he will attack Pakistan, a US ALLY if they have US enemies in their country; to me that is very dangerous.

Obama is idealistic, looking at the world in rose colored glasses, I want a realist for President, not someone who makes me feel good. Obama is so naive with the real world, he should stay on writing books about his life. He will NEVER get my vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 10/14/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

Obama is visionary, charismatic, a leader who has the potential to inspire, unite and lead more than 50 percent of the nation. Our nation and the world could use a dose of real, optimistic leadership.

Hillary in dishonest, an intensly divisive figure, whose primary qualification is being Bill's wife, whose judgment on major issues is horrible (Iraq vote, Iran vote, healthcare reform in the 1990s), who follows and panders to opinion polls, and who takes stands on every side of every issue. The heir to the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton status quo, she is a warmonger and servant of corporate speical intersts who will continue the Bush poliicies in the Middle East to help oil and defense industries to protect their obscene profits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 AM on 10/14/2007
- barackoblogger See Profile I'm a Fan of barackoblogger permalink

If he's so naive, then why did Hillary agree with him about Pakistan?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3465092&page=1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 AM on 10/14/2007
- Lisette See Profile I'm a Fan of Lisette permalink


All the black people I know [and the churches they belong to] are voting for Obama. Also all the white people I know are voting for Barack Obama. And no one cares that he is black-he cuts across racial lines.

Obama in 08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 10/13/2007
- dcazal01 See Profile I'm a Fan of dcazal01 permalink

Poor lisette your wishful thinking is blinding you look at the polls!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 AM on 10/14/2007
- Doug See Profile I'm a Fan of Doug permalink

You must not know many people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 AM on 10/14/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

I don't follow Doug's illogic....ever.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 AM on 10/14/2007
- ConcernAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of ConcernAmerican permalink

Obama voted against war in Iraq, but EVERY budget for Bush Iraq war, Obama VOTED FOR IT. Obama is NOT consistent, as a voter I don't like that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 PM on 10/13/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

Obama had the good judgement to see in advance the disaster the Iraq war has become, and to oppose it vocally, publicly and courageously.

In contrast, Hillary showed the horrible judgement of supporting the Iraq war. And she is supporting an attack on Iran, now.

Once Bush invaded Iraq, there have been no good options. We are up to our necks in a quigmire. Our troops are in harms way.

The question now is: Do we want to have a president who recognized the risks in Iraq and opposed the war, or one who ignored the risks and voted for the war, and cannot say it was a mistake.

Obama is about change and the future, Clinton is more of the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 AM on 10/14/2007
- barackoblogger See Profile I'm a Fan of barackoblogger permalink

As he has explained before, he did not think it was a good idea for us to enter into the war, but since our servicemen/women are there, he does not want them to be put in harm's way and wants to make sure they have the equipment/tools they need.

If it were my sons fighting in Iraq, I'd surely want to make sure they had the necessary supplies that they needed. I would not want Congress to pull away from funding while there our sons and daughters are still in service.

This is only a common-sense approach to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 10/13/2007
- Maxx61 See Profile I'm a Fan of Maxx61 permalink

Your logic would make sense (as would Obama's) if it was his vote that was a deciding one. With a full majority voting for the funding, Obama has had plenty of opportunities to make his post-Iraqi invasion votes consistent with the first...as a matter of principal.

He consistently has chosen otherwise and "providing equipment to the troops" is a convenient excuse for his flop on the matter. He continues to fund it so please tell me how sending someone into harm's way is "supporting the troops." Sure....war is hell...that's why he's paying you to be there. Is that his reasoning?

Sorry...not buying it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 AM on 10/14/2007
- ConcernAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of ConcernAmerican permalink

Hillary will be a very good president. She's the kind of person who just don't shoot off her mouth without checking if her brain is loaded. She gets my vote all the way to presidential election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 PM on 10/13/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

ConcernAmerican,

Your talking points are getting tangled. Hillary shoots her mouth off to pander to the opinion polls. Give one solid statement by Hillary on any issue, and I will give you 5 of her statements that contradict it. She takes a stand and then qualifies it so many times the substance is gone. Quick example: The big big Baby Bonds idea: what is Hillary's current position on it? No one can tell you, including Hillary.

If Hillary is elected, Bill will be the president. That's the plan. We need to move forward, not backward.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 AM on 10/14/2007
- askmeificare See Profile I'm a Fan of askmeificare permalink

You mean she doesn't shoot off her mouth without checking with the polls and focus groups?

Everything Hillary does is calculated and scripted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 AM on 10/14/2007
- barackoblogger See Profile I'm a Fan of barackoblogger permalink

She does shoot off at the mouth: baby bonds (flipflop), torture (flipflop), Iran (flipflop), Iraq (flipflop), talking to our enemies (flipflop), nuclear weapons (flipflop), dealing with Pakistan (flipflop)

You'd think she'd give a little more thought to her statements before she utters these blanket condemnations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 PM on 10/13/2007
- dcazal01 See Profile I'm a Fan of dcazal01 permalink

She is very cleaver that is why she is 50% against Obama 18%. And now with Obama wife attacking Hillary and the false muslin thing the vulnerabilities of Obama will be showing more and more Obama has not place to go but down.

His campaign is not as god as her is an understatement

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 AM on 10/14/2007
- dcazal01 See Profile I'm a Fan of dcazal01 permalink

Of course she is a flip flop, as a matter of fact that is her point, whatever works.

she is not attached to any ideology just like Clinton who made Greenspan his closest adviser it worked!

She has said that and acted that for a long time she will act according to the circumstances

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 AM on 10/14/2007
- barackoblogger See Profile I'm a Fan of barackoblogger permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 AM on 10/14/2007
- Maxx61 See Profile I'm a Fan of Maxx61 permalink

Voting for someone based on color of skin...no matter how warmly this story is presented...is still a racist decision.

I see we still have a long journey ahead of us

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 PM on 10/13/2007
- partyofone See Profile I'm a Fan of partyofone permalink

Maxx61 and add to that, "or gender". So much of Hillary's support is based on the fact that she would be the first female president, not a good president. It is ironmic that the "White House Project" and other feminist efforts to elect a woman president have latched onto a candidate whose only REAL qualification is being the WIFE of a former president who humiliated her. Hmmm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 AM on 10/14/2007
- barackoblogger See Profile I'm a Fan of barackoblogger permalink

There are plenty of (white) women of a "certain age" who are voting for Hillary because she's a woman.

it can't be because of her record, since no one can ever say what her record is. It can't be because of her experience, since Barack Obama has more years as an elected official than she does.

I see no difference between voting for Hillary because you want a woman president and voting for Barack because you want a black president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 10/13/2007
- Maxx61 See Profile I'm a Fan of Maxx61 permalink

I think Hillary's poll numbers are where they are NOT because she's a woman, rather because she's the strongest candidate. In Obama's case, if he was a white male speaking with the same ideas, his message and popularity would probably be on par with Edwards. Take away his skin color and who do you have? Certainly not John Kennedy as others have ridiculously ascertained. On the other hand, if Hillary's ideas were being promulgated by a white male, he would probably be exactly where she is right now. Polling ahead.
Like it or not (depending on how far left or right you are), Hillary appears to be liberal enough for the left and right enough for the moderates which explains why she will become our next President following eight years of conservative incompetence. The political planets have never been so well aligned and HuffPos' might as well get used to it. This is as done a deal as your Sunday breakfast.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 AM on 10/14/2007