AP :
For the second presidential debate in a row, Hillary Rodham Clinton can expect to be everyone's punching bag. This time she'll be on the stage to defend herself.
Republicans ganged up on the New York senator during their debate last week in Florida, knowing that was a good way to energize the GOP base. Democrats are criticizing Clinton because she's the candidate to beat in their own primary.
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The debates are a travesty and useless. The MSM uses them to manipulate the candidates and campaigns. The way the MSM softballs Republicans and hardballs Democrats says it all. The MSM has an agenda and they probably got it from RoveCo.
A civil panel discussion, with both Republicans and Democrats, plenty of time to answer, and real, unscripted, unscreened questions from a real, mixed audience of registered voters. Each candidate could pick 5 questions from the audience and ALL would have to answer it. That would be useful. It would take all night. But at the end we would know more about the candidates and their positions.
History has shown the MSM to be biased in favor of the Republicans. Ever since I've been following presidential elections, and that goes back to the Carter years, I've noticed a clear and indisputable bias in the way stories are presented and characterized by the MSM. It's interesting to see the choice of headline and the emphasis when covering the Democratic nominee. Some of the characterizations are subtle and others not. As an example, look at the way the MSM gave life to the swiftboating of John Kerry. They could've easily put a stop to that nonsense. And, by contrast, look how little emphasis or attention was given to Bush's past and his pathetic military experience.
When it comes to the MSM, the Democrats have to find an effective way to immunize the public against the inevitable lies and mischaract
Kucinich is a real piece of work. He questions the President's mental health, then claims he saw a UFO ?
Seriously now Dennis? What planet are you really from?
Actually, you got it wrong. How typical.
Shirley McLain claimed Kucinich saw a UFO and then Kucinich stated exactly what we all know to be true - that Bush may be insane.
So you doubt Kucinich's claim that he saw a UFO but believe that Bush has a direct line to God.
"Kucinich is a real piece of work. He questions the President's mental health, then claims he saw a UFO ?"
So, which is worse: Claiming to have seen a UFO, or erroneously claiming that a leader of a sovereign country has weapons of mass destruction as well as known ties to Al Qaeda and launching an ill-planned "preemptive strike," based on said erroneous information, that results in the deaths of countless thousands of innocent civilians and US troops and will ultimately cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars? Hmmmm...th
Man, Hillary can't even handle puff questions from her opponents.
Ane libs think Russert was too tough?
Wait until she gets onstage with Rudi; it will resemble "child abuse."
Love Hillary or Hate her, that's one debate I would LOVE to see.
I'm fascinated to hear Rudys understanding of foreign policy.
Remember, Rudy is a New Yorker. To us, anyone out of the Tri-State area is a 'foreigner'.
And to be honest, even the Bridge and Tunnel crowd are suspect :)
Particularly those loathesome creatures from Jersey. Yechhhhhhhh
Both Rudy and Hillary are being annointed by the MSM as the eventual winners. Rudy does not respresent the platform of his own party and Hillary does not possess the knowledge and experience she claims as well as she votes closer to the republican ideals. It is strangely ironic that perhaps the Democrats have the republican's candidate and the Republicans have the democrat's candidate.
Frankly, I have faith in the intelligence of the American people, notwithstanding some here of course, to see this farce being touted in the MSM as the final pairing.
Did you see the way Hillary continued to nod her head while her eyes pleaded for mercy after the second time Russert asked her to take the pledge not to allow a nuclear Iran?
Her look said "please Tim, let me off the hook, I thought you were on my side!"
No. The entire world was shaking their heads at such
a stupid question.
Rudy is a child abuser? Yikes I didn't know that. Thanks!
Hillary can bomb a country, no doubt. Her votes are what she cannot explain. She keeps "trusting" Bush to "negotiate" before he bombs. Iraq and now Iran. There is the Occam's razor explanation, i.e., the simplest explanation to her voting - she is another Joe Liberman!! Duh!!
She and Bill need to stop hanging out with Bush and Cheney and accepting all that corporate cash.
I have heard her talking about bombing Iran for years. These are "gotcha issues." It's called being consistent and taking a stand - like drivers licenses and social security and bombing and corporate contributions. Even if unpopular, she cannot explain away facts and inconsistent positions. Clintons paved the road for Bush. They are DLC. Nothing more need be said other than she is a neocon.
Rude Rudy's only chance of beating Hillary in a debate:
Is HIllary's dress or is Rudy's dress, the most fashionable?
*Russert wasn't tough. He was an ass.
John Edwards won the debate as he led the pile-on HRC and cracked her superficial veneer. Edwards also had the strongest message that speaks to America at large given he's the populist candidate. Obama had his moments, Kucinich was Golden using his platform to broach the urgent need for Impeachment of the Bush cabal.
The best performance of the night was by Sen. Joe Biden. Biden was tough, practical, sharp and on point, displaying sound leadership abilities. His swipe against Rudy was priceless and echoes my sentiments. Rudy Guiliani is a joke, Bush II, and his sycophantic hawkish train needs to be derailed. Thank you Senator Joe Biden.
How did Edwards win the debate? He accused Hillary of being unelectable. Hillary has won both elections she ran in.
Edwards has proven he is unelectable. It's a proven fact. He and Kerry got beat by Bush/Cheney of all people.
Edwards is the snarkiest piece of crap I have ever seen run for president.
Pat Moynihan held his NY senate seat for 24 years and could have gotten the village idiot elected to his senate seat when he retired. It's no big trick for a carpetbagger to creep into New York and get elected with Pat's support.
Agreed. Thank you for seeing what I saw. It makes me feel somewhat sane. Our county needs a true populist. 7% of the private work force belongs to unions because jobs are going overseas and wealth is being transfered upwards. The DLC are the NAFTA crowd. MIC, MSM. Hillary will keep the same policies in effect - just different faces.
Edwards hardly won the debate, but what he did do successfully was getting Hillary to finally begin to engage her opponents. Hillary strategy has been to ignore any pressure from her fellow dems and focus on the republicans. She was able to successfully do this because the MSM failed to critically examine her record and her policy positions which were never clear.
Hillary's tactic to blame Bush first was decimated with her performance, which I won't characterize as poor, since its been a winning one until finally she was called out on it. What the American people saw last evening was a weak candidate hiding behind a disgraced, but popular president who himself has an role in keeping the 'illusion' going that Hillary gained experience under his administration. This more than anything should be the headline today: "Bill Clinton behind the effort to conceal the records showing Hillary Clinton experience".
This HuffPo should be the lead story rather than the stuff ya'll led this blog with this morning. Bill Clinton actually helping to hid and keep information about Hillary the so-called 'frontrunner' from being scrutinized. This is not just big, it is huge and it is consistent with what many have said about the Clintons who are attempting to undermine the process of our election cycle by preventing information to surface about their activities.
How can one expect for these two to suddenly then become transparent in the Whitehouse, when they are using secrecy to gain the power of the presidency?
A start would be to get a copy of the letter that Russert was holding last evening and post it here for all to see the nature of these skunks up close and personal.
Russert looked like a bloated drunk on a three day bender...
And when did he ever grill the Repubs like this??
Please, Tim lobbed softballs all night. he probably leaked his questions to the Clinton camp.
Get rid of the moderators and let the candidates really debate each other on any issue they chose.
We don't need a structured setting like last night.
If that was "taking it easy on Hillary", I can't wait to see what the Republican nominee will do with her in the general election debates.
That was your idea of 'grilling'?
You're lucky I don't host these debates.
Either side.
You don't give a clear, comprehensive and direct answer, you get zapped with the cattle prod.
mention 9/11 more than once, zapped in the weenie.
(bye bye rudy)
Grilled!
Good grief.
If thats a grilling, the should try a few rounds of question time in Parliament.
Gosh
Who to vote for.
Lucky dip anyone?
When you think a nasty fat git with a high school diploma outfoxed them all the last two times.
hillary is a republican -- nay! a neo-con! stop her now or regret it forever! remember, it was the exact same sensation with bush. and look where we are today. hillary is bush with a brain. far more dangerous.
You need to get over you concerns. Soon, very soon Senator Clinton will have the Democratic presidential nomination sewn up.
Troll dreaming..
On planet liberalis maybe, but not on earth.
Absolutely!
All of the leading Democrats are right wing Jim Crow terrorist supporting thugs.
Last night's debate reaffirmed my belief that Senator Joe Biden is the most knowledgeable, experienced candidate to be President.
Wake up American, let's vote for a qualified candidate for President. It's not a popularity contest with the Press being the cheerleaders !!
Agreed.
The 'debate' was anything but. 'Is this softball soft enough for you? Ok, I'll slow it down more.' No one asked Shrillary where the f she gets the right to take profits. Not one, Kucinich, how cwwaaazzzyyyy are you,really!!? Not one of them was challenged like the Republicans are.
Thats why on 1-20-09, Americans are going to wake up to another [R} president. Thank goodness!
Thats why on 1-20-09, Americans are going to wake up to another [R} president. Thank goodness!
__________________
only if this country is f***ing stupid.
What planet are you from?
Happy Halloween All!
Don't eat too much candy.
Have fun, no DUI on the broomstick.
you too hope
Sen. Clinton continues to roll along, giving one great debate performance after another. Even the one so-called stumble over immigration was a measured and reasonable answer. It should tell you something that the pundits have to scrape that hard to find something, anything.
Obama and Edwards play right into Clinton's hands when they go after her rather than explaining their own positions on the issues. They need to do a better job telling the voters what their priorities are and what they plan to do to fix the problem. In other words, they need to present the voters with a reason to vote for them rather than a reason not to vote for Clinton.
And, then, I give credit to Dodd for (lately) refuting the conservative assumption that the Constitution doesn't matter, as long as we're "safe".
I think we should all start questioning the assumptions behind the questions.
Avoiding discussing breaches of the Constitution in favor of discussions beginning and ending with "safety" is the conservative frame.
Understandable, considering.
We could broaden and deepen it, though.
We could start with:"are we violating the Constitution?", instead of "KEEEP US SAAAAFE!!!"
We don't have to accept the narrow limits of a "debate" that conservatives choose. They choose these limits for a reason. It both sells the bullshit message, until we "all know" that we HAVE to violate the Constitution to be SAFE, and allows them to evade a real answer.
I don't know that violating the constitution is the best or even necessary to "staying safe".
In fact, I'm fairly certain the constitution doesn't guarantee "safety". Conservatives told me so, but I think I might disagree with that.
Dodd's doing a good switch on that.
We've been violating the Constitution right,left and center for 7 years now.
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't feel any 'safer'- do you?
Fat boy Timmy was the winner by a mile. He trashed and thrashed with the best of 'em. Her in Murika, we have government of the TV, by the TV, and for the TV.
We will get the prez we deserve and we will pay and pay and pay. Because we don't give a f-k-- all this country cares about is bullshit like sports or if Britney gets her kids.
i'm sorry, this is the huffington post. you took a wrong turn, perezhilton is back one block, hang a louie, and you should see it.
Hillary is the Queen of Pandering.
Tim Russert should NEVER NEVER NEVER again be a moderator for a debate. Someone should have let him have it. He was supposed to ask questions not badger Hillary Clinton who did well despite Russert with his daggers. Unless a person can be absolutely neutral then he/she should not be involved in asking questions in a debate. who won or lost in last nights debate Tim Russert lost and Obama and Edwards turned me off completely and will not get my vote unless they win the democratic nomination. I sure will not vote for either in the primaries.
The ones asking the questions should get the questions to be asked from the people and stop trying to catch Hillary in a lie, which seemed to be the gaol of Edwards and Obama egged on by Russert.
I agree. John Edwards should have gone after the swift boaters in 2004 the way he's going after Hillary now. Back then he was the VP nominee and could have made a big difference in that race by aggressively exposing them and their lies, which truly were lies. Instead he acts like Hillary is the enemy. If he had attacked the real enemy when he had the chance, we would probably not have such a mess today.
I spent about 70 minutes last evening watching the debate between the Democrat hopefuls for president and I came away from it less than impressed with anyone. Yes, there were moments when I was touched by the speakers. Senator Biden captured my attention once or twice. Senator Clinton showed a decent ability to overcome constant criticism of her by her nearest rivals and stay on her message. Senator Obama tended to appear thoughtful on weighty issues. But when I turned off the tube, I was no closer to figuring out which of these candidates including Governor Richardson,former Senator Edwards, Congressman Kucinich and Senator Dodd would be my personal choice. Although I admit that only Richardson and Kucinich really captured my attention during that part of the debate dealing with Iraq when they said they would bring all of the troops home as quickly as one could (in contrast to Clinton who said she'd leave troops there to continue the war against Al qaeda.
I do know this. I won’t be going the way of Rudy Giuliani or Mitt Romney or any of their Republican counterparts (Ron Paul makes more sense than the rest of his adversaries but hasn’t a chance to gain the Republican mantle). So ... I’ll bide my time, eventually pick a favorite on the Democrat side and when the general election comes by, most likely compromise my views by voting for the Democrat chosen by the majority of us looking for change.
In other words, you are taking the loser road of settling for the lesser of two evils if Hillary is the nominee.
Let's see. Hm....the LESSER of two evils or
the BIGGER of two evils? A tough one.
Well, I pick the LESSER of two evils, and that's all you can ever do in this country, so DO IT.
What we are forgetting, is that we MUST vote the lesser of two evils. When it comes to the general election, this notion of "I'm going to make a stand by not voting because (insert name) isn't my choice", well than you can just start kissing Republican ass.
My reaction was similar to yours in some respects, rmajh. Part of the problem was the inanity of the questions. Think about it - 6-8 minutes of national airtime WASTED on questions about UFOs and halloween costumes. MSNBC ought to be ashamed of themselves, but any network that gives Tucker Carlson and Chris Matthews TWO hours a day combined obviously has no shame.
Any of the Demos - any of them - would be far superior to any 'pug nominee, Paul included. It's great that Paul understands Iraq is a hopeless quagmire, but otherwise, he's unhinged. Davy Crockett days are over and the federal government serves many essential purposes in the 21st century.
Here's my to-date ranking of the Demos and why:
1. Dodd - for standing up to Mukasy and defending our constitution.
2. Clinton - for beating the 'pugs at the game they used to dominate: fundraising (also, whatever you think about her personality, she's uber-smart).
3. Kucinich - all the correct policy stances. Smart guy. Funny.
4. Edwards - for his domestic policy agenda.
5. Richardson - he'd be a spot higher, but he failed NM Demos in the aftermath of the 2004 election. NM should have gone to Kerry. Read Palast on this (and don't tase me, bro!).
6. And the rest - they're on Gilligan's Isle to me.
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First Posted: 10-30-07 07:41 PM | Updated: 03-28-08 02:45 AM