Watch: Warren Buffett Calls For Tax Reform

Huffington Post   |  Danny Shea   |   October 30, 2007 04:13 PM


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Warren Buffett sat down with Tom Brokaw on "NBC Nightly News" last night to discuss his problems with the US tax structure. He described an informal poll of his office, where the average tax rate was 32.9 percent, compared to his 17.7 percent, citing that as evidence that "the tax system has titled toward the rich in the last 10 years." He also talked about hedge fund managers and the lower tax rates they enjoy. Watch:

From NBC, 10/29

Buffett prefers a progressive consumption tax system. Share your thoughts on that in the comments.

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Annette: I admire Mr. Buffett for being honest and open about taxation fairness. I am made to understand that he made his first Billion being the gate keeeper for U.S. debt sales, taking a fraction of each sale-- as borrowing became the accepted solution for economic decline under the administration of President Reagan. I imagine that, as a good man, Mr. Buffet may have some "guilt and shame" becoming wealthy off the American citizentry as an insider.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 PM on 11/13/2007

The beginning of the income tax was popular--because of laziness and class envy--because it was supposed to be a tax on the rich.

That didn't last.

Buffet, for all his investing acumen, still misses the point about taxes. He proved as much when he used the example of property tax: his home in Newport Beach about a third of the tax of his home in Omaha. His conclusion was that people in CA were taxed too low.

What???????

The point is that people in Nebraska are taxed too high. They should pay people to live there.

If every state, local, and the federal government received twice as much money in taxes TOMORROW that they have today we would see no appreciable difference in our lives.

But every politician would vote themselves a pay raise for their genius and immediately increase their entourages...I mean, staffs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 11/02/2007

What you failed to mention, J.J., is that tax breaks stimulate the economy: for the poor and middle class by stimulating spending, for the rich and businesses by stimulating growth in production and jobs.

Why is it "Great Minds" fail to see this obviousness?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 11/02/2007

And what you fail to mention, J.J.J.J., is that Munger and Buffet were integral in the Belous case in '69 which became the first case to overturn a ban on abortion, setting the stage for Roe v. Wade.

Why does a man who loves consumers hate consumers?

There is no knowing, but on that Great Day when he stands before the creator, who will be there to speak in his behalf? His billions of dollars given to charities which helped kill more babies, or will they be offset by the millions of innocent lives cut short by the work of Munger and himself?

There is no knowing, but time grows short and eternity looms long...but repentance is in the hands of him who judges.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 11/02/2007

The constitution does not allow for a graduated tax. It only allows for a proportionate tax. The flat tax is the only true legal way of taxing anyway. Oh by the way income defined by the Government "is profit obtained through corporate activities." Labor was define as personal property so by that we should not even be discussing this because by our own governments definition they should not be applying any tax to our labor. Some please show me the law, amendment, or Bill that gives the right to our government the right to apply a graduated tax. Everyone stop filing and claim 20 dependants so they can"t take your money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 10/31/2007

GO to law school before you run your mouth.

You are dead wrong. Explaining why would take more room than this form allows.

Also, after practicing law for 30 years, including constitutional law, my patience for explaining things to fools is shot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:58 PM on 10/31/2007

I have practiced for thirty years also. See my comment above. The lower and middle classes are just as stupid as they were in 1971. The more they watch Fox News the stupider they become. John Kenneth Galbraith is someone they have never heard of, nor would they understand who John Maynard Keynes was. It's really hopeless. I'd like to live in Europe but our money doesn't go very far anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 11/02/2007

Article 1, Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 11/01/2007

When Warren Buffet speaks of his secretary pays a higher % taxes than he does, it is because of the Social Security and Medicare, not the federal income tax.

SSI taxes 7.85% up to an $85K annual income AND the employer matches it with another 7.85%, which is essentially reduced from the employees total compensation. Folks, that is a 15.7 BASE tax everyone pays with no federal or state refund. Add to this the SS trust will be bankrupt in 2017, we are faced with a regressive tax paying for something that won't be around for those who paid into it.

The stability of SS is a political hot potato, everyone loves the benefits, but noone wants to stop the hemorraging, so don't expect any tax reform to change this status quo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 10/31/2007
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Stop with the BS on the SS "crisis" there is no crisis. Even Greedspan says the shortfall is only 3% which would be easily fixed by raising the cap, increasing the retirment age by 2 years or rolling back the tax cuts for the wealthiest.

SS is one of the most successful govt programs of all time - and the wingnuts and supply siders keep trying to gut it and make everyone think its bankrupt - which its not. Thats why attempts to kill SS fail - everyone likes it.

If we had Gore's much mocked lockbox preventing congress from raiding the fund all the time, we wouldn't even be talking about a "shortfall"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 PM on 10/31/2007

Many of the comments display complete ignorance of the true nature of the tax system in the US. Read "Perfectly Legal:The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich--and Cheat Everybody Else" by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter for the New York Times and see how both Parties have betrayed the vast electorate through the tax code.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 10/31/2007

I used to work with this guy who came from $$$$. His working a relatively "joe job" was his way of rebelling. I asked him one time about tax shelters /write-offs and he said you wouldn't believe the amount of $$$$ the wealthy don't pay taxes on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 10/31/2007

I don't know exactly what tax bracket this person you mention is in, however, I would but he pays even less taxes now. Regardless of tax-shelters and write-offs -- which anyone can utilize when/if applicable -- rather, based on strictly Bushie reduced tax % for the upper bracket.

Unrelated to my comments above; re: Warren Buffett.

Not only is he a genius invester, but he's also a great guy. Not sure what his family's thoughts are, however, I read that he's left them very little in his will. The vast Mmjority will be going to charity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 10/31/2007

The polarizing distribution of wealth has been known to occur gradually over the past several decades in many social science circles. There is no shortage of documentation on the subject. This nickel and dime effect is the source of the problem inherent in our economy as we gradually awaken from the premise that a sustainable middle class ever really existed. Greater financial wealth goes hand-in-hand with greater political leverage. As a result, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and we awaken to the fact that the middle gets nothing. The term "middle class" implies a politically inert group with no political identity, which plays right into the hands of the truly affluent.

As my cousin once said, apply enough lubricant and insert the shaft slowly enough so the people don't realize how screwed they really are. Buffet and others have always known this. I think his reasons for speaking up is the realization that there is now less lubricant and the sex is getting the natives restless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 10/31/2007

I saw Buffett getting interviewed and he seems like he has a conscience. He stated his secretary pays twice the taxes he pays and he thinks that is unfair. He also stated he would never attempt a hostile take-over of any corporation. Now that is class. He seems he enjoys making money, he studies it and he seems
to have gained all of his wealth honestly.
I am still for a flat tax of 17% or less. It worked for Russia and catapulted that in a GDP with double digits. A flat tax without any
deductions would make it much easier to have the right tax taken out without having to file later and surprise, surprise, you owe!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 10/31/2007

The concept of a flat tax will only benefit those who pay above whatever the rate is set to be. If you already pay 17% then what benefit is this to you? If you pay less than 17% then you would have to pay more (it is, after all, a flat tax not a progressive tax - a flat tax would, in spirit, be the base line we all pay.) This concept is yet another way of redistributing wealth from the bottom to the top. Don't we have enough of that now? The most ridiculous notion I've heard about the flat tax is that those who pay above the flat rate would be only glad to pay that share and lose all of the deductions they have built into the tax system. If they won't pay their share now, they won't pay it in the future, no matter how low it is set. But as long as people who won't benefit one iota from it feel compelled to support it (cause it worked so well in Russia) we the people will continue to be punked.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 10/31/2007

A flat' tax is extremely regressive. The necessities (food , shelter etc) have a minimum cost regardless of income and anything less than spending that amount means you do with out. That minimm 'stay alive' $ cost is every penny of income for those below 200% FPL (+/-) It isn't even 1% of the income of the upper 5%.

FOr the person in the bottom 1/3 of the economic scale, they will be paying the money they need to stay alive in tax. For those in the upper 1/3, they won't notice it in terms of necessities.

Try taxing unearned income (such as dividends) at the same rate as earned including tagging it for FICA/FUTA (Medicare, Soc Sec and unemplyment.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 10/31/2007
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Thank you! The numerous erroneous and misinformed responses concerning taxes is disheartening, especially the flat line and anti-constitutional comments.

Tax load is rarely discussed. Yours is the first such post I've seen in this thread. Congratulations on your insight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:10 PM on 11/01/2007

We don't need tax reform. We already have a progressive tax rate that would work without all of the cuts that have been going to the wealthiest ten percent of the population since Reagan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 10/31/2007

Lower taxes create a better economy ONLY if the majority of people get lower taxes. The average will spend that tax saving, and that boosts the economy, driving the need for more products, more workers to produce those products, more warehousing to store them, more stores to sell them.

Lowering taxes for the wealthiest people in this country is the sure route to financial disaster. Consider the Great Depression. It was caused ENTIRELY by financial benefits to the wealthy, while ignoring the lower economic levels of society. And what happened? The majority of Americans survived it financially, while the wealthy were ruined, some so much they took their own lives because they were too cowardly to face their part in the collapse.

IF Bush's tax cuts are allowed to become permanent, by the year 2010, the wealthiest 1% in this country will be getting nearly 52% of the tax cuts, while the 2 poorest groups in this country will actually have to PAY more in taxes, and we'll be well on our way to another huge economic collapse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 10/31/2007

"Lowering taxes for the wealthiest people in this country is the sure route to financial disaster. Consider the Great Depression. It was caused ENTIRELY by financial benefits to the wealthy,"

Actually cutting the taxes on the wealthy was also the cause of the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 10/31/2007
- rvme I'm a Fan of rvme permalink

As usual Warren is right... And he is right about inheritance taxes staying too. I know its popular to tax about "death taxes", but think about it... Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. They are worth how much? Gates' worth is due to stock that cost him(in dollars) very little. How much of his wealth has been taxed? Very little... without inheritance taxes it could be passed on without ever being taxed...So you own stock worth $1 billion with no cost basis(and never sold) compared to earning $1 billion over a lifetime. Which is taxed more? The earned income. A consumption tax would tax them both.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 10/31/2007

My biggest issue with most federal tax reform is that it doesn't tax income, only wages.

Why should hedge fund managers and trust fund/inheritance babies be taxed at a lower rate than John or Jane Doe who have to schlep for a living?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 AM on 10/31/2007

Lower taxes create opportunities and employment. Period.

Flat tax for all on all forms of income to cut out the need for tax preparers and lawyers and shelters. 17% across the Board.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 10/31/2007

But they would have to tax all income and not just wages which is something that will never happen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 10/31/2007
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Although I'd like to see a flat tax on all income, I'm not convinced that lower taxes always create opportunities and employment. Employment in foreign countries maybe, these days, but not here.
Even Ronald Reagan was embarassed enough by the unfair taxation of income in comparison to corporate taxes that he instituted the minimum corporate tax.
We need to get more progressive in taxing more than the first 85 thousand dollars for social security and then we wouldn't be facing shortfalls there. Why should Paris Hilton's fortune be taxed each year on only the first 85,000 dollars? Because she creates jobs?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 10/31/2007

!7%, I have never paid 17% Federal income tax, and neither have the vast majority of Americans. The flat tax once again favors the rich and really puts it to the middle class. Yeh, you may pay 30% or more on part of your income but the simple arthmetic is tax actually paid divided by total income. With a household income approaching $125,000 and a couple of kids and a mortgage the total should not exceed 13-14%. Folks with less income pay less than that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 PM on 10/31/2007

$125,000 is upper 10% income.

Median income in the US (and the median household has 2.69 people) is around $48,000.

$125000 is over 2 1/2 times what 50% of households live on.

Ta the top 10%. They can skip the trip to the Caribbean.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:06 PM on 10/31/2007

Flat taxes do NOT address what is the primary issue in the tax returns of the very wealthy-- what is an is not income. Income is often hidden as business expense or through other ways of disguising income. Cutting taxes on the wealthy is supposed to primarily result in that money going to the supply side-- to increasing the goods available to consumers thus lowering cost. However the best return on that money can be had by advertising thus manipulating demand and lobbying or political contributions. so the supply side model simply ignores these other factors and ignores what really happens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 10/31/2007

Have to laugh. It's easy for Buffet to come off as a sympathizer but I'm rather sure if what he proposes (i.e. "fair taxes) were the reality, he'd be the first one trying to beat the system. I'm really amazed how many gullible people there are.
Buffet's conscience must be bothing him, but that's the extent of it. The truth is, he wouldn't have the system any other way than it currently is. And 'unfair' is an understatement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 10/31/2007
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Like Joe Kennedy, Buffet knows the tricks of Wall street. FDR brought in Kennedy to eliminate some of the abuses of insider trading and other stock market manipulations. If Buffet is willing to agree to cut loopholes, he might still take advantage of remaining loopholes but we'd be a more fiscally sound country by listening to his calls for rationalizing the tax structure.
The fact that the Kennedys or now Buffet may continue to make money and take advantage of tax laws does not take away from their willingness to accept a larger burden of taxes in exchange for their success as entrepreneurs or allocators of capital.
You can't have it both ways in the conscience department. If Buffet wants to institutionalize a better conscience into the fabric of our presently amoral corporate structured tax code, those without massive capital resources should trust that he doesn't really want to have the system remain the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 10/31/2007

Cynical? It is just possible to consider the correctness of the idea without judging the motives of Mr. Buffet. I have no idea what motivated Buffet's comments, but I agree with him in this case. And, note, the corporate and highly paid media have not run with the story, have they?

I find it interesting that billionaires Buffet and Soros seem to support the concept of a mixed economy, while that little worm Milton Friedman (now canonized) and his chelas in the Republican party continue to be 'true believers' in 'laissez faire' capitalism (sic. free market). From the folks that brought you the great depression, another chance at poverty for most and, well, you get it, amazing packages for the corporate 'princes'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 10/31/2007

Well you can read up on Buffet if you really want to know. He has been in support of more taxes on the wealthy since at least Reagan was president. He probably won't have his estate taxed because he is giving all but a few million to charity. He supports higher taxes on the wealthy and always has. The man is a liberal as well as many other wealthy people. He does realize he has benefited greatly from this country and is more than willing to pay his share. The assumption that you must be poor to be liberal is a generality that only shows the stupidity of generalities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 10/31/2007

It is all in the details of the tax.

Most sales (consumption)taxes hurt the middle class earners the most. We spend almost every penny we earn for food, gas, utilities, health care, clothing and a home.

The consumption/flat/sales tax that has been floating around even taxes, a new home, a visit to the doctor. It leaves in the high taxes on beer, liquor, cigarettes and firearms.

Buffet means well, but he should have his financial advisors study the flat tax before he endorses it. (That is, if his advisors aren't republican.)

There is a clause in the income tax bill that keeps them from being able to destroy Social Security and Medicare, too.

Those types of taxes always hurts the middle class. The rate would be more like 37% instead of 17% also.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 10/31/2007

I should have made this clearer.

There is a clause in the old income tax bill that keeps the cons from being able to destroy Social Security and Medicare, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 10/31/2007

The FairTax not the flat tax would be the largest restoration of power to the people, taking power away from the political class.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 AM on 10/31/2007

A two or three-tiered flat tax on income, with no deductions, PLUS a tax on consumption of "non-essential" items (no tax on food, medicine, clothing, or shelter). Not only could we climb out of debt, but we would become more responsible consumers as well - or at least, more thoughtful (hm-m-m - maybe that Accord is a better value than the BMW....)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 10/31/2007
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I applaud Buffet for his common sense comments. The embarrassing give-away by bush and the GOP to the uber-wealthy in tax breaks is destructive and more importantly undemocratic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 10/31/2007
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