Rivals Attack Hillary From The Right On Immigration

  |   October 31, 2007 12:26 AM


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From the New York Times:

Interesting discussion on whether illegal immigrants should be able to get drivers' licenses, as New York's governor has proposed. Mrs. Clinton had said two weeks ago in New Hampshire that it made "a lot of sense," but tonight gave a pretty indecipherable answer. She said that "what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform."

Mr. Dodd said a driver's license was a privilege and to extend it to illegal immigrants was "troublesome." Mrs. Clinton came back to say that she didn't say it should be done, but that she recognized what the governor was trying to do. She and Mr. Dodd got into a spat about what she had said. She dismissed it as a "gotcha" question.

Both Mr. Edwards and Mr. Obama called her on what seemed to be a shift in her statement. Mr Edwards said, "Unless I missed something, Senator Clinton said two different things in the course of about two minutes just a few minutes ago." And Mr. Obama uttered a devastating phrase for anyone who remembers the 2004 campaign: he said he couldn't tell if she is "for it or against it."

On the license issue, Mr. Obama said that he thinks Governor Spitzer's plan is "the right idea."

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- TimT I'm a Fan of TimT permalink

The Dems are generally ahead of the Republicans on most issues. Guliani and company are still acting like 9/11 is the only thing that matters.

But none of the Dems understand the immigration issue. They all seem to care more about the feelings of illegal immigrants than about securing our borders.

We need to have a secure border and business enforcement in place before we even start talking about "the path to citizenship." Otherwise the government will botch the job again.

We ought to let people come to this country if they have skills we need. But we don't need more folks with no education and no training.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 10/31/2007

And yet are illegals Space Aliens?

No doubt to some they are...

Last time I noticed, "Space Aliens" don't exist.

Let's call a spade a spade shall we?

Truth is that we have had an economy that uses
"Migrant Workers" for years now they don't migrate so much.

Let's figure out a way ( our great Congress hasn't done it yet ) to work up a solution to our immigration problem tied with an ultimatum to the MEXICAN GOVT:

Figure out a way to stop it or you will have another problem:

WAR!

Not that I really WANT to drop bombs on Mexico City, but sometimes it seems that no one pays attention until you put it in graphic terms!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 10/31/2007

I agree completely with your sentiment - the causes of illegal immigration lie completely with the Mexican Government (with a little help from American trade policy (NAFTA) and our greedy multinationals). What we see as illegal immigration is really a symptom of a much bigger problem - the shameful income gap in Mexico and the extreme poverty that exists on one end of the gap.

Mexico is a rich nation, with a GDP (14th in the world) bigger than Australia, Saudia Arabia or Ireland. yet it refuses to take responsibility for its own people. Minimum wage is $4.50 a DAY, not enough to buy food in the Mexican economy (let alone pay rent, utilities, etc). The average salary is between $6 and $7 per DAY, still not enough to meet basic needs in the mexican economy. This is an embarrasement, considering the worlds richest man lives in Mexico.

People are moving here, accepting all the risks that come with being illegal (can't drive, can't protest work abuses, live in constant fear of loosing everything, demonized daily in the press, risking their lives in the desert) because anything is better than starving.

Commentators say, "its not our problem". Well, neither is a war that produces refugees, but we try to stop a war and stem the flow of the refugees. Besides, we are not blameless. Trade agreements like NAFTA, with almost no provisions regarding minimum wages or working conditions, and the few provisions that are included ignored, say to the Mexican business, "To trade with us you will compete on price only, and do whatever you can to get the product for the lowest possible price" and this means cutting labor costs by whatever means nessecary. Our multinationals bribe Mexican officials to look the other way when labor and environmental violations occur, they lobby the Mexican goverment to keep minimum wage low.

We could solve this problem. We are Mexico's biggest trade partner, buyer of over 70% of its exports. If we said, raise your minimum wage or we impose trade sanction, they would. And we would all benefit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 10/31/2007
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And here's yet another politician willing to maneuver around the laws if it will somehow benefit her. Glad I have no intention of voting for her and I hope others are seeing her without the rosy colored *first woman president*, she was *Bill's first lady* glasses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 10/31/2007

What the Dem candidates fail to realize is that the vast majority of Americans want the illegals gone. Period. This crap about driver's licenses is like putting lipstick on a pig. It's useless and folks know it. The candidate that backs matching Social Security numbers and fining/jailing employers of illegals would be amazed at their new poll numbers.

I wish we could have just one candidate that isn't a puppet for the corporations. One that would bring all Americans home from Iraq-now. One that would give us healthcare w/o private insurer involvement. One that would repudiate unfair trade agreements, like NAFTA and end the work visa program entirely. One that would bring regulation and oversight back to the financial industry, transportation, trade and health. One that ends corporate personhood. One that could nominate an AG that can candidly answer the definition of waterboarding.

I for one am weary of the pageantry, the parade of mental midgets that pass for candidates for high office. I bet at least ten other people in the country feel as I do. I yearn for the day when one person steps forward, willing to end the charade and begin doing the work of the people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 AM on 10/31/2007

Hmm, a candidate that's not a puppet for corporations, would have us out of Iraq in 3-months, already has a bill for a single payer, not-for-profit health care for all, plans to pull us out of NAFTA and the WTO as his first act as President of the United States, wants investigation into all the illegal crap that has been going on with the current administration, and has always stood for human rights and would *never* allow waterboarding.... Sounds like Kucinich to me.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 10/31/2007

If you want a presidential candidate who anti-illegal immigration, look for one who is anti-NAFTA. Because while we keep giving Mexico reasons to suppress wages in its own country, its citzens will keep running here to escape poverty. Minimum wage here in California is $7.50 an hour, Mexico is $4.50 a day, if I were in their position I might jump a river too.

The funny thing is NAFTA could have solved all of this if it had included a provision stating that the Mexican government was obligated to raise the minimum wage by a certain % each year and enforce labor laws. But instaed, Mexican real wages have dropped every year since NAFTA and illegal immigration has increased accordingly. Go figure...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 10/31/2007

I cannot vote for Clinton or Obama during the primaries. Also, Clinton is too pro-war, so even if she wins the Democratic primary, I won't vote for her in the general. Life is too short for four more years of lies and wars. Dodd is the only Democratic candidate worth considering and he has a real chance of becoming president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 AM on 10/31/2007

Dodd is in the pocket of the corporations! He has pandered to the MIC throughout his fully compromised career. HE IS A SENATOR FROM WAR INDUSTRY CONNECTICUT, for God's sake!

Dodd the only one worth considering?!? Give me a f*cking break!

DENNIS KUCINICH IS THE ONLY ONE OF THE CANDIDATES OF EITHER PARTY WHO HAS DEMONSTRATED OVER THE COURSE OF HIS DISTINGUISHED CAREER THAT HE DESERVES TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE US!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 AM on 10/31/2007
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When I'm driving my car down the highway, I would like to know that the person to the right of me or the left of me or in front of me or behind me has had to pass a driver's test and has a valid driver's liscense. Quite frankly, I don't care if the person is an undocumented citizen, illegal alien, or is from Mars. When it comes to safety on our roads there should be amnesty for all. On this Gov. Elliot Spitzer is spot on. The Democratic candidates would have done well to make this simple argument during the debate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 AM on 10/31/2007

Wanna know why bush doesn't want to stop the flow of illegals? Because there are thousands of them working in the oil fields across this nation. They are not taking jobs that Americans don't want - they are taking Americans' jobs at a much cheaper rate.

Wages have gotten high in the oil patch and the flow of illegals help keep them down. The oil companies love illegal aliens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 AM on 10/31/2007
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I'm with you on this one jazzman. Also, I thought Hilary was perfectly clear on the issue. I feel like I'm being prompted daily by the media to not like her and after this debate I like her even more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 AM on 10/31/2007

Indecipherable? Yes, Hillary dodged and weaved. I won't vote for her. Even if the left should cease, I cannot vote for this equivocator. We've come too far. Sorry Hill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 AM on 10/31/2007

It was an interesting debate, and thankfully the other candidates stuck it to Clinton. Perhaps this will knock her off her perch. Check this report out at www.thedailybanter.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 10/31/2007

We can't deport illegal aliens because "they're in the shadows". When they walk into a public office to take advantage of another bestowed upon them "right", they aren't in the shadows. Those certainly were some loud shadows in the streets, waving the Mexican flag last year, too. What shadow ? It's the poor legal residents of this country who are being pushed into the shadows as irrelevant.

These Democrats need to give the amnesty marathon a rest before they tear this country apart. That's coming from a former Democrat who distanced herself from the party this year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 10/31/2007

I was going to vote for Hillary; I think my husband was too (don"t want to speak for him " but he sounded like he was). But neither of us can support a candidate who doesn"t understand the idiocy of granting illegal aliens driver"s licenses. First off, if it isn"t done right, this is ripe for voter fraud. And, just as important, this will put a new class of jobs at risk.
Business wants illegals to get driver"s licenses because you can"t get insurance if you don"t have a license. So, if illegals get the right to drive, all those driver-related jobs suddenly move over to the "mainly done by illegals" column. Florists, uniform cleaning companies, any business that delivers will now be able to drop that job down to minimum wage where they might currently be paying $10-$12 an hour. Of course, it might take away that "delivery charge" that you have to pay for pizza now. Heck, I can see governments hiring illegals to drive buses, etc. Now there"s a way to break all those pesky unions. Obama thinks it"s a good idea too, so he"s also off my list. Doesn"t anybody get it? The middle class is drowning and college is no longer the financial life jacket it once was " not with a $50k or $60k student loan bill waiting for you the day you get out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 AM on 10/31/2007

"The middle class is drowning" -- can anyone truthfully deny it!

AND the God damned media and punditocracy are DESCRIBING THE F*CKING WATER!##?!

I just returned from an extended stay in the UK, and I saw absolutely no difference in what is going on there where the 'media' consists only of sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, cartoons and 'ain't if awful about the California fires'! It ain't just 'Murka -- 'Murka is not the only *sshole DamnTheMiddleClass insult to all decency!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 AM on 10/31/2007

And Obama won't be able to tell you if he is for it or against for a few weeks, until he sees how it plays out for HRC before Obama will take a tepid, watered down version of a position.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 10/31/2007
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