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Vegas Debate: Hillary Goes On Counter-Offensive

November 15, 2007 09:19 PM


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LAS VEGAS-- Thursday's Democratic debate came roaring out of the box with the top three contenders verbally pounding each other like at no other moment so far in the '08 campaign.

After showing weakness in the previous debate in Philadelphia two weeks ago, Senator Hillary Clinton seemed well-prepared for what she knew would be a rhetorical pummeling from her closest rivals, Barack Obama and John Edwards. She defended herself by going on a strong counter-offensive, radically ratcheting up the overall temperature of the debate.

Within moments of the start of the two hour event televised nationally from the campus of UNLV, Senator Obama launched an initial barrage by accusing Hillary Clinton of being purposely evasive. "What the American people are looking for right now is straight answers to tough questions," Obama said. "And that is not what we've seen out of Senator Clinton on a host of issues."

No sooner had Obama finished his sentence than did Clinton, for the first time in the campaign, go vigorously on the counter-attack. " I hear what Senator Obama is saying, and he talks a lot about stepping up and taking responsibility and taking strong positions," said the visibly angry Clinton. "But when it came time to step up and decide whether or not he would support universal health care coverage, he chose not to do that. His plan would leave 15 million Americans out."

Clinton and Obama then proceeded to verbally spar over the health care issue with the latter claiming that the issue as he sees it isn't forcing a coverage mandate on the American people as his rival proposes, but rather by making health care more affordable.

The debate atmosphere grew even hotter as the third-running John Edwards joined the attack on Hillary Clinton by attacking her position on the Iraq war which she -- as Edwards--had voted to authorize in 2002. Since then, Edwards has formally recanted his vote and continues to chide Clinton for not more forcefully opposing current policy. "Senator Clinton says she will end the war. She also says she will continue to keep combat troops in Iraq and continue combat missions in Iraq," Edwards said. "She says she will turn up the heat on George Bush and the Republicans, but when the crucial vote came on stopping Bush, Cheney and the neocons, on Iran, she voted with Bush and Cheney."

Clinton quickly turned the charge around by interrupting moderator Wolf Blitzer and accusing Edwards of "throwing mud" and of taking a page out of "the Republican playbook."

Indeed, the first fifteen minutes of the debate played out like a three-way no-holds-barred wrestling match that the CNN referees struggled to control. Only the entrance into fray by second tier candidates Joe Biden , Chris Dodd, and Bill Richardson - all of them pleading for calm--brought a more moderate tone to the verbal brawl.

But even New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson quickly returned to a more aggressive stance, attacking Edwards, Obama and Clinton all in one sentence saying that it "seems like John wants a class war, Barack wants a generational war, and Senator Clinton doesn't want to end the war."

The free-for-all atmosphere reflected the struggle to firm up or advance the candidates' relative positions just seven weeks short of the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses. Recent polls show Hillary Clinton with a double-digit national lead, though she's running in a virtual dead heat with Obama in Iowa. After getting tripped up on the immigration issue during the Philadelphia debate on October 30, Clinton's momentum seemed to slow and her rivals went into tonight's debate hoping to exploit a possible opening.

More sparks flew during the debate on issues of immigration, trade and U.S. policy toward Iran but not with the intensity that infused the first rounds of the debate. No new ground was broken on these issues where the actual positions of the respective candidates vary by only minor degrees.

Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who has staked out the left flank of the field, accused all of his fellow candidates of waffling on key issues. "You see here people tonight who voted for the war now have a different position, people who voted for Yucca mountain and and now have a different position, people who voted for China trade and who now have a different position.," Kucinich said. He also called for "impeachment now" of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

In an ironic twist, it was Obama who struggled with the immigration question during this debate, the same one over which Clinton stumbled on two weeks ago. When asked for a simple yes or no answer on whether he supported the granting of driver licenses to the undocumented, Obama offered an indirect and rambling explanation and only said "yes" after being prodded by the moderator.

During the first fiery ten minutes of the debate, Obama showed a heated passion and determination to challenge the front-runner. But as Clinton steadily shot back at hi, Obama seemed to cool and never regained the dramatic edge he might have initially achieved.

The same can be said for candidate Edwards. He came out bashing Clinton as supporting a political system he called "rigged" and "corrupt" but after her accusation of mud-slinging, the former North Carolina seemed to recede into the background of the debate.

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What we've had in recent years is the seemingly eturnal replay; the Clintons are pummled viciously by their enimies; outlast them; and come of looking politacly brillent.

So, the manufactured tempest about Hillary's great "stumble" comes to not much. That we get the news here from a journalist who openly hates Clinton is only fitting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 11/16/2007

As I watched the debates last night, Dennis Kucinich definitely came out on top in my book. Edwards, whom I support was on the defensive, and Biden was strong and measured. Kucinich's answers were straight forward and to the point, and his call for "Impeachment Now!" brought a strong round of applause from the audience. No pussyfooting around from this candidate. However it seemed that Hillary and Obama once again got the lions share of the
questions and time to answer them. Makes you wonder who's controlling our elections.
Big coporations, the new Robber Barron's are taking over, no question about it. They choose our candidates for us with their buying power. That's why I drew my latest cartoon about the debates last night.
jt' up at my website now;
www.whatnowtoons.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 11/16/2007

THIS IS ONE DEBATE WHEE I KNOW THE STRONG PERSON WON........HOORAY FOR YOU HILLARY!! YOU SHOWD THOSE INSECURE MEN WHO "GANG UP" THAT YOU CAN HANDLE ANYTHING.....EVEN THE OVEL OFFICE AND THE MILITARY!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 11/16/2007

These debates as far as the media is concerned are about entertainment, and nothing more. They are going to give the most time to the ones that they think will provide the most controversy. And another factor in who gets the most coverage is which ones the big boys in control have determined would be best for their agendas. They know they can control whom the people want by telling them which one is most popular. Because most people in this country are ignorant or stupid or both.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 11/16/2007

When do we get to see a DEBATE where substantive issues and the people knowledgeable about them get featured?
I'm SICK of HillBamaWards--- spoiled sound byte thugs. They DON'T CARE about anything but getting elected and amassing more money and supporting their corporate owners. They will promise anything and avoid consequences....
Why can't Arianna or Democracy Now or Michael Moore or Garrison Keillor or Sean Penn(?)step forward and sponsor a true PEOPLES DEBATE, where Richardson, Kucinich, Dodd, Biden and Gravel actually get to DISCUSS solutions and the Trio of Narcissists get to "add a little bit on at the end"???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 11/16/2007

A moderated debate, run by to rules set in advance, used to guarantee a civil dialogue, even if it didn't guarantee logical answers. Were any rules being followed in this one? If it appears that the media sets up who the front runners are, it's probably not on purpose, but rather as an adjunct to what will draw th most viewers and hold thier attention.
Civil dialog is largely missing in today's politics, whether in small groups like your nieghborhood, or in larger groups of City, State, and Federal Civil Servants.
We live in a time when extreme responses to anything that isn't just what we would do is demanded. If we aren't outraged by other opinions, people think there is something wrong with you.
The fact is, a Civil Society is not built on outrage. It's built with tolerance, and even well-wishing of other viewpoints. Short of individuals actually getting hurt, we should be celebrating the differences between us. It's what makes life interesting.
Too often, people believe that to allow a different viewpoint somehow negates their point-of-view. When their position doesn't stand on logic, they insist that everyone agree with them anyway, or else.
The "or Else" is generally to become very noisy and obnoxious, inviting others to pile on in the classic dog-pile scenario, in order to break down the evil doer who happens to have a slightly different approach to living.
Case in point, those people who live in Communities with Associations attached all do quite well when there is a rational, tolerant individual working as President. Any one who has ever lived in a community with an intolerant, "everyone Must do everything my way or else", human being having the greater influence, understands that they are no longer living in a Civil Society. Suddenly, they are living in a Dictatorship, run by intolerant, uncivil, obnoxious, so-called, Do-gooders.
If we are to ever hope to have a Civil Society as a Nation, we need to start by being Civil at home.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 11/16/2007

This is hilarious - for the past two weeks the Clinton haters have been giddy with excitement that maybe Obama would have the stuff. They bashed Clintons Campaign staff for crying foul with MSNBC, the format and the moderator....

its deja vu all over again - except this time you've got nothing but Hope to choke on. Now, because HRC did well - and yep you've got to give it to the gal she did very well - its CNN, its Wolf, its the crowd...... Obama and the rest of them have nothing except to bash HRC. The Reverend Jesse Obama couldn't turn his sermon into a sound bite and truly suffered through the night and Edwards well Edwards was just Edwards.

Obama choked on immigration and on his holier than tho attitude - we have real problems Reverend, that are going to take a whole lot more than hope to solve, and while he is a hopin' we need to have solutions now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 11/16/2007

I prefer Kucinich over all the candidates, but Hillary managed to defang Obama and Edwards very effectively last night.
Any candidate must lie and play to the masses to get elected. I think Hillary will get the ultimate nod, however, because her spouse is a helluva lot more useful to America than Elizabeth Edwards or Michelle Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 11/16/2007

Just by reading these blogs Hillary Clinton is toasted. Let talk about moving on to the next candidate. She lies to many times, flip-flopped like it cool and trying to be slick like her husband slick Willy. Hey, we need a new play book. They are ready this this time around for the slickness. It is called telling the truth. I predict the person that tell the truth the most will win the election. People are listen close because they are tired of the BS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 11/16/2007

WoW! Everyone should scan back through these blogs and see how many responses DON"T have Hillary or Clinton in them. I think we are all hopelessly involved in her, whether we want to be or not. No matter what is going on if she is there, she will be the topic of contention. The more we keep her in the limelight the better chance she has of winning, because she can't slip out of view. I don't know. Maybe we really are hooked on her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 11/16/2007

Last night's debate and the resulting hysteria on the blogs reinforce my belief that voters can be manipulated into electing whoever the MEDIA wants in office. The notion of a 'Top Tier' of candidates is an artificial label the msm forces on the public and has more to do with candidate celebrity than substance and degrades anyone not considered viable, regardless of their point of view. That being said, this is what I saw on the podium.
HRC, Obama and Edwards were more about bickering amongst themselves than speaking to me as a voter. While each is intelligent and apparently hungry their exchanges left me with 'politics as usual' and provided no real inspiration.
Richardson came across as a bit whiny, "can't we all just get along?", ala Rodney King.
Kucinich came across as angry and probably rightfully so as he seemed to be ignored by Blitzer, et al.
That leaves Dodd and Biden. Two men of obvious intellect and two who share many of my views. The question is which man was speaking to me, J.Q. Citizen? In the end Biden was the man who consistently cut to the chase in his responses and I believed spoke to the American public about the issues and kind of leadership that most benefit our country. But that's just my opinion.
These debates are really about giving the voter a glimpse into the character of each candidate. Perception is reality regardless of record or hype and each of the people standing on that podium would do well to keep that in mind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 11/16/2007

I get the huffington post everyday because there are some very good articles. I also try to take part in some of the posts. But it seems that the radical left and the radical right have taken over these posts. I am a Democrat not a lunatic left winger that thinks everything the government does is a conspiracy or a lunatic right winger that thinks that we should have a king a kill everyone else in the world if they don't agree with us. I as the majority of Americans am in the middle.I believe that government should be by the people and for the people, but for all the people not just the left or the right. That is our problem today we are controlled by the lunatic right wing. Would it be any better if we wre controlled by the lunatic left wing.WE need to get back to the middle and restore checks and balances in our government. That is why the Democrats keep losing and why the Republicans will lose is because they have let the fanatics control there party. You can support a candidate without bashing another. This site here looks like it came straight out of an Ann Coulter book.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 11/16/2007

I think we need to look at the candidates for what they have done instead of looking at polls and who put up the best show. The only one there with an honest message was Dennis Kucinich. The rest are all a bunch of flip floppers. Hillary gave authorization to Bush to invade Iraq. John Edwards was ok trading with China. It sends a clear message that they all play politics. It won't change if they become President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 11/16/2007

I watched a full hour, the first time this year.
It is disgusting to watch an individual such as Wolf Blitzer, and the other well coiffed talking heads trying to pose "difficult questions."

Right out of the box it was a "he said, she said" between Obama and Clinton, orchestrated by Blitzer. This is/was always the disgusting part.

Kucinich wasn't even addressed or allowed to participate until well into the program...disgusting!

Biden, Richardson and Dodd along with Kucinich gave the best articulate answers to q's posed but are always considered as in this article, "second tier." That too is disgusting.

As a matter of fact the whole process is disgusting!

I'm way up in age and none of these candidates I would vote for except possibly Kucinich.

The others will continue to lead this country down the path of self destruction with suicidal foreign policies. (No matter which party gets in office)

We need to open up our political system to third, fourth and even fifth parties to get a more diversified public involved.

Why do we have one of the lowest voter turnouts in the the world? Because too many voters are not only turned off but are disgusted with the system itself.....outsourced jobs, destruction of the middle class, further enrichment of the super wealthy, capital flight, poor congressional oversight laws to protect the ordinary citizen from the ravages of unbridled (regulated) power of capital...escalating health care with restricted care in the "private" insurance markets, and on and on and on!

sierra

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 11/16/2007

When the dust settles and all the BS is gone you will see Hillary Clinton sink like a ton of brick. Just being a fighter is not going to win an election. You better be tell the truth because this is a different generation. Yes we are listening to her sweet nothings!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 11/16/2007

when Hillary is asked a "direct" question . her answer is always the same .... "indirect" nothing to do with the question
I don't trust a word she says , and her voice is becoming more and more annoying to me

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 11/16/2007

I think the frontrunners are being decided for us, and being reinforced to be the frontrunners during the debates. They always give excessive time to the people that are already ahead, like Clinton, Obama, and Edwards and usually give them a chance to respond when criticized by another candidate. Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, and Richards got minimal time; and didn't get a chance to respond to criticism. Dennis Kucinich especially didn't get a chance to respond. Clinton and Obama was responding all over the place. I think the debating process is rigged. This is especially true when people are starting to like what Biden and Kucinich have to say, but don't get to enough, not nearly enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 11/16/2007

It's nice to see that Hillary can appear at a debate and field softball questions. It is kind of funny that the Republicans will appear at any debate whether it's Wolf Blitzer of CNN or Russert and Matthews of MSNBC or any other liberal forum. And the Democrats cannot because they, especially Hillary, could not control the questions asked by the moderator. For a person that stated she wanted to unite the country, she certainly seems to want to play it safe and not answer tough questions. Unless of course you think Wolf Blitzer asked tough, hard hitting questions and follow ups with her. Let"s have the Democrats appear on Fox News unless of course they only want to be President of half of America because they may win over the kool-aid drinking light weight liberals but they still need the independents to win. And when whomever wins the softball questions are over.

And as far as the Clinton's being calculating, that is what they do best. Consider Hillary playing the gender card, "Oh, I am a poor women and the big boys are piling on". That didn't play well in the press so here comes Bill with all his bravado saying they were attempting to "Swiftboat Hillary". The Hillary's response, "Stay out of this Bill, I am man enough to handle it". Calculating, always calculating. And as far as Hillary and her softball questions, that will end if she is fortunate enough to win the nomination.

On a side note, how about my man Barry Bondaroid, he may see some prison time for his 10 years of doping and cheating to amass his baseball records. Go Barry!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 11/16/2007

With the networks trying to get the candidates to put each other down, emphasizing their ability to destroy their opposition, we get little on how they would govern. Once actually in that post, guess what, your ability to persuade or be persuaded is an important asset. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards seem to take this setup of mutual destruction hook, line, and sinker. There were very relevant questions from the audience asking them how they would approach various problems and what in their background prepared them for this role. Who filled the Bill?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 11/16/2007

I guess i'll be in the minority... and I say Biden is the man...he was on point..his mouth gets him in trouble sometimes and I think that's because he tells the truth imagine that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 11/16/2007

CNN's opening of the debate foretold the boxing match set-up. The parade of the candidates and the incessant babbling of Wolf Blitzer made me think I was listening to the hype of prizefight rather than the opening of a debate by Democratic candidates on substantive issues. Does it bother anyone else that the lead question is always one designed to start the pouncing, rather than to illuminate policy differences?

The media is so shallow. We have watched them anoint Hillary, then fan Obama's fire over the last week or so (and to some extent, Edward's campaign), and within 2 weeks, it was time to chart Hillary's "comeback." It's no wonder so many people are so cynical about politics, with the fickle media conducting its horse race as if the grave problems facing our nation can best be solved by who can lob the best zinger?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 11/16/2007

Hillary votes no to win votes but she won't speak the truth. Barack has the courage to speak the truth. Citizens need everybody to have drivers liscense so they can be monitored for insurance and accidents and alcohol related deaths. He also pointed out the need to PASS an imigration bill to get those people on a path to citizenship. They will be needed to feel like americans so they can keep our social secuirty system fluid.

Hillary also got BUSTED on her statement about not RAISING THE CAP on social secuirty because she says the tax increase will hurt the middle class!

Barack stated that the 6% getting paid 97,000.00 a year is NOT THE MIDDLE CLASS !

Hillary also stated that she thought the american education system served us well ?? NOT ! !

Hillary also got BUSTED on her vote for the kyle Lieberman and the mother and the Iraq war veteran son who clapped when the rest of the candidates pointed out they were AGAINST the Kyle Lieberman bill to make the Iranian guard a terrorist organization and how the bill also allows for Bush to keep troops in iraq !!

Yes Hillary got busted BIG TIME the truth always comes out.

Thank God we have a candidate like Barack Obama who speaks the truth and doesn't shift back and forth trying to get votes. Hillarys thinking people won't catch her shifting her point of view from one location (town) to another as she lies lies lies trying to sway the american voters !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 AM on 11/16/2007

Hillary proved at last night's debate that she is by far, the best candidate to defeat the Republican oil barons. She was brilliant. Soared like an eagle. Never faltered. Awesome.
I almost feel sorry for the Republican nominee when he has to face her in a debate next year. It was clear that because she was debating members of her own family last night, she had to show some restraint so as not to hurt the party or give the Republicans any ammunition. But just wait until she faces the real enemy up close and personal and has no restraint and can attack their failed policies without restraint. I have no doubt that she will pound Republicans into the ground and then her boots will walk all over them.
I think every man and woman in the country will see how utterly inept the Republican party is once and for all.
Hillary's victory was a landslide last night. She was a bright and shining light on that stage and and I, for one, could not be more excited by her ability to show the world that women are in fact, great leaders.
I know everyone says its best to ignore the fact that she's a woman, pretend it is not significant. But how is that possible?
For every woman out there who has faced gender discrimination in her lifetime (and there are a lot of us out there), Hillary's success is the sweetest victory any of us could ever hope for in our lifetime.
I am voting for Hillary because I agree with her agenda and I trust her and she's a Democrat, but I am shamelessly hoping she wins because she is a woman. Her inevitable victory makes me giddy, much like I would feel if I won the jackpot today. I have never been so invested in an election in my lifetime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 11/16/2007

Mike Gravel was not "invited" to participate...per Mike Gravel during a radio interview earlier this week.

Did Hillary "win" the debate? Of course. Did the boys step back during the debate? Of course. Women have been manipulating and controlling men for thousands of years. Hillary is especially good at it. She didn't "WIN" anything!

The very thought of Hillary Clinton as our next president scares the hell out me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 AM on 11/16/2007

Hermied..."and that she did not believe the boys attacked her because she is a woman, only that they attacked her because she was ahead in their presidential race.

Other people call that envy and jealousy.
Other people call that ability and leadership.
Other people call that evading the real issues."

And SOME people call it manipulation and control by a woman. Women have been doing it for thousands of years ~ and Hillary is especially good at it. If it waddles like a duck, if it looks like a duck, and it quacks; it's probably a duck.

She'll NEVER get my vote! And, yes, I'm a woman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 11/16/2007
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