CIA torture, cia waterboarding, CIA waterboarding torture, Gen. Michael Hayden, General Michael Hayden, Michael Hayden, waterboarding, waterboarding torture
CIA torture, cia waterboarding, CIA waterboarding torture, Gen. Michael Hayden, General Michael Hayden, Michael Hayden, waterboarding, waterboarding torture

CIA Boss: Waterboarding May Be Illegal

LARA JAKES JORDAN and PAMELA HESS | February 7, 2008 08:32 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — Debate over waterboarding flared Thursday on Capitol Hill, with the CIA director raising doubts about whether it's currently legal and the attorney general refusing to investigate U.S. interrogators who have used the technique on terror detainees.

Vice President Dick Cheney, meanwhile, said "it's a good thing" that top al-Qaida leaders who underwent the harsh interrogation tactic in 2002 and 2003 were forced to give up information that helped protect the country.

"It's a good thing we had them in custody, and it's a good thing we found out what they knew," Cheney told the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, President Bush has "made the right decisions for the right reasons," Cheney said. "And would I support those same decisions again today? You're damn right I would."

Waterboarding involves strapping a person down and pouring water over his or her cloth-covered face to create the sensation of drowning. It has been traced back hundreds of years, to the Spanish Inquisition, and is condemned by nations around the world. Critics call it a form of torture.

This week, for the first time, the Bush administration acknowledged it waterboarded al-Qaida detainees Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri. CIA Director Michael Hayden on Thursday said waterboarding was used, in part, because of widespread belief among U.S. intelligence officials that more catastrophic attacks were imminent.

In 2006, the CIA banned waterboarding by its personnel in the wake of a Supreme Court decision and new laws on the treatment of U.S. detainees.

"It is not included in the current program, and in my own view, the view of my lawyers and the Department of Justice, it is not certain that that technique would be considered to be lawful under current statute," Hayden told the House Intelligence Committee.

Hours earlier, Attorney General Michael Mukasey pushed back against Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee demanding to know whether he would prosecute U.S. interrogators who used waterboarding in the past.

"Are you ready to start a criminal investigation into whether this confirmed use of waterboarding by U.S. agents was illegal?" the committee's chairman, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., asked, calling the technique an "odious practice."

"No, I am not," Mukasey answered bluntly.

He said the Justice Department could not investigate or prosecute people for actions that it had authorized earlier.

Mukasey has refused to say publicly whether he considers waterboarding legal. On Thursday he said it "was found to be permissible under the law as it existed" in the years immediately following 9/11.

Critics say waterboarding violates the U.N. Convention Against Torture and U.S. laws outlining legal treatment of detainees. The Justice Department long has resisted exposing the Bush administration and its employees to criminal or civil charges or even international war crimes if waterboarding were declared illegal.

Larry Cox, executive director of Amnesty International USA, called Thursday's testimony an example of "the gold standard of double standards."

"Everyone in the world knows that waterboarding is torture and illegal," Cox said. "The U.S. government admits having done it. Yet the highest law enforcement official in the land refuses to investigate this scandal."

The White House this week said waterboarding still could be legal in interrogating future terrorism suspects in some situations, as long as Bush authorizes it after consulting with the attorney general and intelligence officials.

The House Judiciary Committee's top Republican, Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, said he hoped the "administration will not be defensive about using some admittedly harsh but non-lethal interrogation techniques."

"Would you agree with me that 99 percent of the American people would probably endorse such techniques if they would be shown to save thousands of American lives and were conducted only on terrorists?" Smith asked Mukasey.

"I can't sit here and say what I think 99 percent of people would do," Mukasey answered.

"You can't but I can," Smith said. "I understand that."

Former military and intelligence officials who have spoken out against waterboarding say the refusal by the United States to outlaw the technique could prompt terrorists or enemy nations to use it on U.S. personnel who may be detained in the future.

"Under what circumstances would it ever be permissible under international law for a foreign nation to interrogate a U.S. citizen by strapping a U.S. citizen to a board and suffocating him or her with water with the intent to create the fear of death?" Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., asked Mukasey.

The attorney general, who earlier refused to say whether he considers the rack or thumbscrews forms of torture, said he would not answer a hypothetical situation.

"Because to do so would indicate the contours of what may or may not be permitted under a program that is classified," he said.

___

On the Net:

Justice Department: http://www.justice.gov

CIA: http://www.cia.gov/

House Judiciary Committee: http://judiciary.house.gov/

House Intelligence Committee: http://intelligence.house.gov/

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- MissingAmerica See Profile I'm a Fan of MissingAmerica permalink

Ya think?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:40 AM on 02/08/2008
- Tankan See Profile I'm a Fan of Tankan permalink

Born again SS nazi!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 AM on 02/08/2008
- realitytrumpsbull See Profile I'm a Fan of realitytrumpsbull permalink

I think they won the 'war' in a day or two, it's the 4 or 5 years afterward that've been so wierd, including all this torture stuff, I think they should have canned whole bunches of people over Abu Graib, Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore...burning billions per week on 'defense'...from what, exactly, oil independence? We DO live in Interesting Times, but, at the same time, how much more money goes into rockets and bombs and bluntly spoken, god knows where else...someone's profiting by the whole business. Tune in next week, for the next exciting chapter...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 AM on 02/08/2008
- init See Profile I'm a Fan of init permalink

This has been a tough adminstration. But just think if they hadn't been tough? George Bush should consider staying in office until we catch all the terrorist. At least our children could live peacefully. I may be one of his few followers; but I believe he will go down in history as our most serious president. He just needs more time. This may sound contrary to my earlier writings; but he has kept us safe in a dangerous world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 02/08/2008
- moda31 See Profile I'm a Fan of moda31 permalink

seriously, it's amazing how long it can take to come up with what is completely obvious. good god when are these people going to stop wasting taxpayer's time and money & accomplishing nothing?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 02/07/2008
- ajax2 See Profile I'm a Fan of ajax2 permalink

Mr. Hayden as NSA head didn't understand the Fourth Amendment. International law, torture and waterboarding surely have him confused.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 02/07/2008
- OhgReaTone See Profile I'm a Fan of OhgReaTone permalink

Huckabee will appoint a cabinet that takes care of these problems. They will use satire to explain waterboarding - or at least we can use satire to explain the cabinet.
Ohg
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/02/08/a-look-at-huckabees-cabinet/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 PM on 02/07/2008
- factotem See Profile I'm a Fan of factotem permalink

In other news... Hitler may have been a Nazi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 02/07/2008
- forpeace See Profile I'm a Fan of forpeace permalink

*

factotem

In other news... Hitler may have been a Nazi.

==========

Exactly ....... Good post.

*

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 02/07/2008
- NeverRepublican See Profile I'm a Fan of NeverRepublican permalink

And we are the so called "leaders of the free world"????? I want to move to Australia. America is starting to really suck...along with the Jesus thumping crowd...wait a minute...the "born agains" are the WHOLE REASON FOR THIS CRAP! Can I please throw up in any available republican's mouth?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 02/07/2008
- mcostello See Profile I'm a Fan of mcostello permalink

Am I one of the 1% that does not approve of torture, even if it saves thousands of American lives and is only performed on terrorists?
Call me an idealist, but I stand by the "anyone who gives up their liberty for security deserves neither" notion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 02/07/2008
- abbiehoffmansghost See Profile I'm a Fan of abbiehoffmansghost permalink

No, there are a lot more than 1%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 PM on 02/07/2008
- willo See Profile I'm a Fan of willo permalink

He should be waterboarded till he does investigate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 PM on 02/07/2008
- dogjudge See Profile I'm a Fan of dogjudge permalink

There are TWO extremely bothersome issues that came out today with Mukasey.

1 - Opinion of the AG is what determines whether an action is legal or illegal. (Funny, I thought that's why the US had a Supreme Court. I wonder what Bush's strict constructionists on the Supreme Court are going to think of that position?)
2 - He won't investigate/prosecute . . . (Well, that says it all, doesn't it? If the AG doesn't prosecute that means it never gets to court at all to be resolved.)

So now the Bush administration has gotten rid of the legislative branch of government AND the judicial branch all at the same time.

ala Pakistan, I want to know when Bush is simply going to disband the Supreme Court and then follow up with Congress.

If you're not worried, you're not paying attention.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 02/07/2008
- RTIII See Profile I'm a Fan of RTIII permalink

"If the AG doesn't prosecute that means it never gets to court at all to be resolved."

I wonder if that's really true.

Certainly it's the case that the AG is the one _paid_ to bring suit. But is there anything in the constitution about limiting who can bring suit against the executive branch?

CLEARLY we ALL have standing. We are all harmed when _our_country_ practices torture against both our own and international law.

My bet is that it simply has never been tried.

Any lawyers out there care to give it a go? Maybe we should be talking to the ACLU?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 02/08/2008
- RTIII See Profile I'm a Fan of RTIII permalink

"He said the Justice Department could not investigate or prosecute people for actions that it had earlier authorized."

This effectively means that he considers the Justice Department to be Above The Law. ...Perhaps the criminals who made the decision to "authorize" the actions are the ones that should be prosecuted! If that means the Justice Department has to prosecute itself, then I think it's HIGH TIME we have an independent council do it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 02/07/2008
- tompoe See Profile I'm a Fan of tompoe permalink

Waterboarding has been illegal, considered torture, not acceptable throughout history. You're right RTIII, who made it legal when Bush entered the white house? Mukasey and Hayden take the position that all future use of waterboarding be approved by the president. What authority delegates that? Did the president approve the use of waterboarding in 2002-2003? War crimes do indeed, need to be prosecuted. Let's hope that happens. It would be a suitable "legacy" for Bush and Cheney.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 PM on 02/07/2008
- Purple Girl See Profile I'm a Fan of Purple Girl permalink

Funny thing is that WE have decided it was torture- not onlylong ago as a country (on paper), bu thave also reaffirmed our attitudes towards such methods.
therefore Mr. hayden and Mr. Muksay are in violation of their oathes of office.
By the way we also want this Adminstratin and all it's friends to be rought up on charges of Treason, War Crimes ,spying, Abuse of Power, Racketteering....
If you'd like to get lighter sentences for yourselve I suggest you begin immediately- Otherwise YOU Will be facing charges Of High crimes- WE Will Waterboard you- just for fun! PAY BACKS A BITCH CORP'ISTS!!!! NUEREMBURG TRIALS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY. WE GOT THE LIST OF PEOPLE AND CORPS AND A LONG LIST OF CHARGES TO BE LEVIED ON EACH PERSON WITH MULTIPLE COUNTS ON EACH CHARGE.PRAY YOU ONLY GET A LIFE SENTENCE IN GITMO (no appeals, no padons, no commutations)I will support the death penality in many of these cases (usually a little more reserved in the use of this punishment- but no one deserves it more than these TRAITORS)
CAVE ADSUM

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 02/07/2008
- ReasonIsMyReligion See Profile I'm a Fan of ReasonIsMyReligion permalink

Waxman? Webb? Feingold? Dodd? Biden?

Christ, even McCAIN !!!!

Where ARE you guys?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 02/07/2008
- RTIII See Profile I'm a Fan of RTIII permalink

very VERY sad, isn't it. -frown-

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 02/08/2008
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