Rebates Could Stave Off Long Recession

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MARTIN CRUTSINGER | February 9, 2008 02:12 PM EST | AP

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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nev., second from left, meets reporters on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Feb. 7, 2008, after Senate Democrats and Republicans reached agreement on an economic stimulus package. From left are, Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., Reid, Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., and Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash. (AP Photo/Dennis Cook)

WASHINGTON — Despite remarkably quick passage, the economic aid plan and its cash rebates may come too late to prevent a recession this year. For many experts, however, the $168 billion boost to the lagging economy may mean the difference between a short downturn and something much more serious.

The measure that President Bush plans to sign this coming week will send government payments to more than 130 million people. Checks that will start showing up in mailboxes in May range from $300 to $1,200; households with children get an additional $300 per child. Businesses benefit, too, through tax breaks to increase investment spending on plants and equipment.

The tax relief is intended to jump-start the economy. Politicians, worried about a recession in an election year, put aside their normal bickering to speed the proposal through Congress.

Nonetheless, there is debate over how effective it will be. Critics say debt-burdened consumers will use the money to pay bills rather than spending the checks and spurring growth.

An Associated Press-Ipsos poll found that only 19 percent of those surveyed said they planned to spend their rebate checks. Forty-five percent said they would pay off bills, while 32 percent said they planned to invest the money.

Supporters of the proposal said they have faith that people will spend the money when they get it.

"When you ask people what they will do with the money, they often say they will pay off their credit card bills," said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York. "People may mean it when they say it, but when you look at what they actually do, most of the money gets spent."

Many economists expect anywhere from two-fifths to two-thirds of the rebate checks to be spent in the first six months, based on past experience.

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If that happens, the aid plan will do its job of helping the economy rebound after a prolonged housing slump and a credit squeeze. Analysts increasingly believe the economy has slipped into a recession, the first since 2001.

Global Insight, a private forecasting firm in Lexington, Mass., changed its forecast this past week to project a mild recession in 2008. It predicted the gross domestic product would decline at an annual rate of 0.4 percent from January through March and then at a 0.5 percent rate over the next three months. By one rule of thumb, the economy is in a recession when the GDP declines for six months in a row.

Analysts have downgraded their forecasts based on a string of bad reports signaling that the economy clearly donwshifted at the end of last year. Unemployment took a big jump in December. January saw the first loss of payroll jobs in more than four years.

In addition, activity in the service sector, where most people work, fell sharply in January. Automakers and big retail stores struggled with lackluster sales last month.

"With housing activity and prices yet to hit bottom _ and still falling sharply _ the downturn is now spreading more broadly through the economy. The consumer has long been under stress and is now showing signs of cracking," Global Insight said in announcing its new recession forecast.

Brian Bethune, a Global Insight economist, said the new forecast projects the economy will rebound in the summer and grow at a 3.4 percent rate as the rebate checks give a jolt to consumer spending. As that impact wears off, growth will slow to a still healthy 2.7 percent rate over the final three months of the year, he said.

Other economists see a similar pattern _ and benefit from the rebates.

"This is going to provide a very important and measurable boost to the economy in the second half of this year. It won't forestall a recession, but it will ensure that the downturn is short and mild," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com.

Zandi said he expected this downturn to be similar to the 2001 recession, which lasted eight months.

The unemployment rate rose by 2.5 percentage points back then. Zandi said it will rise by less than 2 percentage points during this period of weakness, going from a low last year of 4.4 percent to a peak of about 6 percent.

The expectation of a short and mild recession is also based on the view that the Federal Reserve will keep cutting interest rates in the month ahead. The Fed aggressively began lowering rates in January.

Economists are raising the possibility that the government may consider a second economic rescue plan this year. For example, Democratic senators had hoped the just-passed measure would have extended unemployment benefits; that idea failed, but they are pledging to keep pushing it.

Many economists believe the government will have to do more to address the mortgage crisis. Defaults are soaring as millions of borrowers with spotty credit histories who got loans find themselves unable to make monthly payments once the mortgages reset to higher interest rates.

Analysts said further quick action by the Fed at the first signs of trouble will be essential, given the problems that have already hit the financial industry and wiped out an estimated $120 billion in capital reserves. As a result, banks will lend less until they replenish those reserves.

Economists said they cannot rule out the chance of a double-dip recession, where the GDP rebounds briefly in response to the rescue plan, only to fall into negative territory again.

"We are not out of the woods yet and the risks remain very high because of the widespread problems in the financial sector," Zandi said.

WASHINGTON — Despite remarkably quick passage, the economic aid plan and its cash rebates may come too late to prevent a recession this year. For many experts, however, the $168 billion boost to...
WASHINGTON — Despite remarkably quick passage, the economic aid plan and its cash rebates may come too late to prevent a recession this year. For many experts, however, the $168 billion boost to...
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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 02/10/2008
- joja I'm a Fan of joja 12 fans permalink

Haaaaa-haa­aa-haaaaaa­!

How clueless the rich are!! Some of us (the middle class, or what's left of it) have been in a recession since the days of St. Ronnie!

Thanks a lot, mutha fuhkas!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 02/10/2008
- joebhed I'm a Fan of joebhed 45 fans permalink
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I often wonder whether the "financial" world considers economics a science or an art.
Obviously, from this post, it should be considered an art.
Free expression of ideas in multi-media comes close.
Were it a science, we would be looking for the theme that many scribes have posted here: cause and effect.
Right now, we know what the fix is - and all of the pols from both parties, perhaps Ron Paul excepted, are supporting the fix.
The fix is +/- $150 LARGE.
Artfully, it is claimed this will fix the problem with the American economy that is, in turn, causing the world financial markets to shudder and shake in an almost unprecedented manner.
Scientifically, one would have to assess the nature of the problem of the US economy, in order to determine whether BORROWING another $150 LARGE is a solution to the problem with the US economy, or is contributing to the problem.
Now, it could be me, but it seems that borrowing that $150 LARGE at standard interest rates means it would cost the TAXPAYERS of the US about $400 LARGE to pay it back over time.
So, is the addition of a REAL $400 LARGE iou to our kids the scientific answer to what the American economy needs to pacify the world's financial markets?
Artfully, yes.


    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 02/10/2008
- almoguy I'm a Fan of almoguy 4 fans permalink

Joebhed, of course your thinking is right, but you are using LOGIC to frame and inform the debate. I have yet to see any logic in the administration of this rebate issue. It is “shuffling.” I do take issue with your liberal use of “Art.” What these guys do is not related to art. Art is about intelligence. Art has broad POSITIVE and universal implications. The decisions being made by these weasels is a lot like a cat covering up their turds (no disrespect to felines)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 02/10/2008
- joebhed I'm a Fan of joebhed 45 fans permalink
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"Art is about intelligence".
Point well made.
Well taken here.
With my apologies to all artist friends.
I still have to conclude the charade is more art than science.
I sense that these days most all politicians are illusionists.
And that is what the peope have come to expect.
First, the so-called free markets screw things up so bad that EVERYONE wants the government to do SOMETHING to fix the problem.
Neither the people nor the government will accept the market solution to its own largesse.
And, well, the government is really not equipped to do much.
Its either tax-and-spend.
Or, borrow-and-spend.
In this case, the latter.
Supported by both parties.
Maybe that is what fifteen years of Republican control has taught all the politicians.
But to me it looks like throwing oil on the fire for the simple reason that in this calamitious situation, oil is all we have.
Too much debt is one of the problems.
More debt is the agreed upon solution.
Viola!
SOMETHING.
Hang on, kids.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 02/10/2008
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To hell and damn with the world's financial markets. All this exotic economics is part of the problem here. To reform, to 'reset', there should be 'domestic', and 'foreign', with a clear understanding on the part of all parties concerned about the difference between the two.
Trillions in debt will ONLY be fixed by some far-reaching fiscal reforms, starting with a curtailment of World Wide Larceny.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:56 PM on 02/10/2008
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Not only is economics an art, it is a BLACK art.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 02/10/2008

When the Euro was introduced in Spain, the black money
poured into the economy and raised the GDP 15%.
Sure it's a one off, but it's not debt and it may just kick
start a recovery. Just redesign the banknotes and the demand for new flooring will sky rocket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 AM on 02/10/2008
- Uselessboy I'm a Fan of Uselessboy 12 fans permalink

"I promise to save the election, the whole election, and nothing but the election, so help me God."

It's not exactly rocket science.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 AM on 02/10/2008
- Gelbert I'm a Fan of Gelbert 2 fans permalink

You know, the Chinese say this the year of the rat.
"Der Deibel schitt immer auf den größten Haufen"
Note: The above is in German.
Rough translation: The cornered rats on wall street will go down trying to take you with them. They will try to blame the middle class for the depression. Always remember: They were the cooks that made this toxic soup and sold it to us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 AM on 02/10/2008

I think that I will use mine to buy a gun and some ammo. 1776

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 02/09/2008
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Purchase yourself some Good American Made rope and make up a noose and put it in that tree you have. Hang a sign on the tree that says All Politicians Welcome to try it out for Free.


Got Rope?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 PM on 02/09/2008

stretchumall; LOL good Idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 02/10/2008

fact finder: Buy as many guns as you can. They will be in ever greater demand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 02/10/2008
- olephart I'm a Fan of olephart 104 fans permalink

After seven years of the Government borrowing $3,400,000,000,000 to finance non productive tax cuts for the wealthy, no bid contracts, crony capitalism and illegal wars of aggression the Nation is staggering under a debt load of $9,245,000,000,000. The interest on this debt is about $500,000,000,000 per year. The worst aspect of this mammoth debt is we have nothing to show for it. Our infrastructure is falling down, we're ranked 37th in health care (behind Costa Rica!) and as to education, we're not even in the top 25 (Estonia made it to number 13!).

While this disaster was unfolding, we were busy selling our houses back and forth to one another, constantly "tapping the equity" and otherwise running up $5,500,000,000,000 in personal debts. Now the crap we bought is junk, our mortgages are junk, our overpriced houses are liabilities and our stagnating wages can't keep up with our credit card bills. This bleak picture is not universal, it is however the only one that gets any press. Many of us did not participate in the spend your house and live beyond your means scenario. That is little solace as the economy goes into the dumpster. So what is the reward for being frugal and what is the punishment for being extravagant. The Government at its bipartisan best will borrow another $200,000,000,000 in our names and give some of it to us to spend and hand out some more useless tax cuts for business. This in the hopes that we will mistake their continued incompetence for wisdom and let them keep their phony baloney jobs.

The budget office is predicting that with this "stimulus package" the deficit will rise to $400,000,000,000. This, of course, does not count the $200,000,000,000 off the books war costs and the $220,000,000,000 that is "borrowed" from the Social Security surplus. The REAL DEFICIT will be over $800,000,000,000 this year, that is if all goes well. What would it say to them if everyone took their rebates and bought gold?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 PM on 02/09/2008
- CharlesMac I'm a Fan of CharlesMac 13 fans permalink

I share your hemorrhoid-like feeling for playing it financially straight and still ending up indirectly paying for some guy's HDTV, he bought with the equity in his garage doors. But we are also having a very real problem with some of the Titanic's passengers on the poop deck. Working stiffs in my town paying for heating oil with credit cards because they have only gotten two raises in the last 6 years. My brother has $30K in debt, because his $12K/yr family health insurance policy has a pay cap on his illness. I asked if his wife could get a rebate, if we couldn't afford the last treatments and he died.

So I obviously have an ax to grind for my quality of life after the $10,000,000,000,000 of personal and national debt we have run up in the past 7 years. I want to extend our sincerest apologies to those flaccid supply side pimps on Wall Street because my brethren and I can't responsibly service debt and drop money on the mall from helicopters, too.

Meanwhile, the jumbo mortgage crowd can now beat their rate jump over at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Be sure to call us, when those two bellyflop on the leveraged debt.

And the gall of the snakelicking, overstuffed, garbage bags full of money and monkey chit in Washington to think they can buy this country, and their jobs, with tip money.

Since the political parties are obviously fractured, I suggest we declare this our last debt money and use it to establish additional political parties. There has got to be likeminded people out here who are trapped inside their fatheadass party. There are even issues that We find common ground cross-party.

I am serious.

If somebody like a Ron Paul can make it all the way to the Convention and make some noise, I won't kill myself for another four years. Because he will have proven that Washington can't stop the uninvited.

And I want to be around to punch that card that says The People are back in town.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 AM on 02/10/2008
- Tator I'm a Fan of Tator 9 fans permalink

I get a real chuckle how the intellectual elites have been so snookered. The liberal/Dem have you so conned they keep you looking in the wrong place just like a good magician. The above post is a perfect example.

Liberals here on HP are always posting with passion about the YEARLY deficit. I don't think there should be a yearly deficit either because our governement gets way to much money from the citizens, then over spends. If you think the Dems are going to fix that you are just plain niave. Matter of fact the policies they are proposing are going to increase the yearly deficit even more.

As an example, want would you say would upset you more, finding out your spouse is running up a extra $1000 bucks a month debt or finding out they signed a contract that increased your overall debt ( future liabilities) to the tune of $100K?

The fact of the REAL matter is the US has future Liabilities to the tune of 50-70 TRILLION bucks (low estimate - high estimate) over the next 40 years. How bad is it? Well to break even in forty years the US would need to run yearly surplus of a Trillion a year every years for forty years.

So why is this never ever mentioned by Liberal/Dems and the MSM? If they harped on the national debt everyday Americans might start putting real pressure on our leaders to start to fix the yearly deficit.

So why is the future national debt NEVER mentioned? Because the causes behind the 50-75 Trillion debt are the Liberal Programs of Social Security and Medicare. Now the Dems are going to add even more on top with National Health Care. By 2040 these programs start to go broke, is that ever mentioned in the wailing about the yearly debt. Nope.

So forgive me when I don't buy all the concern about the yearly debt when Liberals ignore the gorilla on the room.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 AM on 02/10/2008
- olephart I'm a Fan of olephart 104 fans permalink

"I don't think there should be a yearly deficit either"

"If you think the Dems are going to fix that you are just plain niave."

Excuse me, didn't the budget produce a surplus under Clinton? When Bush came into office they were predicting surpluses for years to come but he sure fixed that.

"the US has future Liabilities to the tune of 50-70 TRILLION bucks"

"why is this never ever mentioned by Liberal/Dems and the MSM?"

It was and it was suggested that the Social Security SURPLUS be put out of harm's way and not co mingled with the Federal budget. Bush and the Republicans refused and spent it (as have all Administrations since Johnson). Bush did mention shoring up the system by putting Social Security monies into the hands of those Titans of Ethics on Wall Street. If he had his way our money would be invested in CDOs and SIVs and wouldn't worth the paper its printed on.

"the 50-75 Trillion debt are the Liberal Programs of Social Security and Medicare"

As noted above Social Security is running a surplus and Dems are discussing ways to keep it solvent. You will recall that the biggest increase in Medicare spending was the result of Bush's unfunded drug benefit bill, you know the one that PROHIBITS the Government from negotiating prices with big Pharma.

I promise that as soon as we clean up the elephant shit we'll get back to solving other problems until then we'll just fight one deficit at a time. You can do your part by keeping the elephants out of our Government, the trillions saved by their absence will go along way in staving off bankruptcy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 AM on 02/10/2008
- CharlesMac I'm a Fan of CharlesMac 13 fans permalink

It has been the Republicans who have actually been breaking the law in regards to reporting future issues. In 2000, it was law that the agencies of the Executive Branch submit financial statements. Instead they submitted a "report" for 6 years which included zero assumed liabilities. No accruals. See "Fiscal Year 2006 Financial Report of the United States Government" at the GAO.
http://www.gao.gov/financial/fy2006financialreport.html

Particularly see David Walker's auditor's note which basically says the report breaks basic GAAP procedures, numbers have little "material support", and should not be used for any decisions in running the government. This is where the White House Economic Committee gets their annual budget deficit number!?????

Republican persistence of reporting the running the country on a cash basis has been key to their deficit spending because it does not include operating bills that will have to be paid in the future. Which Bush policy has committed the country to pay. Some examples:

Lockheed, Raytheon etc have multi year contracts for armaments. The greater part of their cost will not hit our books for a few years.

Over the past 6 years, job growth has not only been anemic, but 1 out 4 has been a government job. That's accrued pension and healthcare liabilities in the $100s of billions, which the Repubs didn't put in their annual "report".

The most obvious is the open ended "cost plus" contracts for Iraq. These are the favorites of irresponsible spenders. When a business starts a project, they identify a cost budget. They can decide if the cost and the expected return on invest, make the project worthwhile. The Repubs have had an unlimited credit card, blew their expected "budget" by 100 fold, and there is no way the future cost can be quantified.

In a final note... the Repubs had complete control over both Houses and the White House for 6 years. Unprecedented in modern history.

They did nothing about SS and Medicare, except continue to steal the SS surplus, and add an $8,000,000,000,000 bonanza for the pharmaceutical companies in Medicare.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:55 PM on 02/10/2008
- mcostello I'm a Fan of mcostello 7 fans permalink

Tator:
I seem to remember Al Gore talking about a "lock box" for the social security money. It was an idea that lasted for about ten minutes eight years ago.
It might have become policy, but even then, dem or repub, they all love to spend the money. The difference is where they spend it.
The last seven years has seen the usual govmnt spending on eldory health, housing, the pooor, you know, the usual, PLUS tax cuts for the very rich, billions (trillion?) to a war that is so privatized that it really goes into corporation's pockets, plus other repug deregulation scams that take that whole US govmnt pig trough, and give the lion's share to those who already have more than they can count.
So tator, the dems did talk about your issue for a minute, the repubs run up a serious tab on borrowed greenbacks, and all the while most of us "intellectual elites" see the problem, but are saddled by leaders who sell snake oil on tv to morons, then spend all of their energy feathering their own nests.
(wow, I feel lighter)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 PM on 02/10/2008
- BOBONDE I'm a Fan of BOBONDE 4 fans permalink

IF YOU LIKE THE WAY THINGS ARE RIGHT NOW, WITH THE ENERGY AND HEALTHCARE COSTS AND WAR COSTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THEN MC CAIN IS YOUR GUY.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:21 PM on 02/09/2008
- CharlesMac I'm a Fan of CharlesMac 13 fans permalink

They are kidding, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 02/09/2008
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Apply a little 'truthiness', here, what a grossly distorted, resource-sucking monstrosity our whole government has become, and until they reform their finances, everyone else's finances will be screwed, and they'll be offering more of these little highly conditional and structured handouts. It's a payday loan, they'll get the money back eventually, meanwhile they still get a cut out of your check before you ever get it. Ah, the endless battle for custody of your paycheck...you're just the intermediary, the tool...nice little racket. Don't forget to use those government services?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 02/09/2008
- jotunloki I'm a Fan of jotunloki 8 fans permalink
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What government services? that's been the whole point of the Bushie Revolution

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 02/09/2008
- UPer I'm a Fan of UPer permalink

Not being an economics expert, I just can't figure out how a one time rebate will do anything long term to help the recessions­/depressio­n. Maybe one quarter will show an upturn but what happens the next quarter? Once the money is spent, where's the long term help? If they used the rebate money for public works jobs or any other spending that would pump money into the economy for a long time, maybe that'd help. Give them cake, make them feel good for a few months, just long enough so the election is past, then the economic bomb will hit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:43 PM on 02/09/2008
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Not bad. That is pretty much what the economic experts are saying.

The Congress, however, has their own agenda, which has nothing to do with the economic health of the USA, even though they SAY it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 PM on 02/09/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 133 fans permalink
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Everybody is saying "go out and buy something", but if you do that, there is an 80% possibility you'll just be helping Japan's or China's or Indonesia's or Vietnam's economy.

What you're REALLY supposed to do (what Bush et al REALLY want you to do) is pay that house payment you're behind on or pay one forward.

I.e., bail out the banks 'n the finance industries 'n thus Wall Street...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 PM on 02/09/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 133 fans permalink
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Same thing for credit card payments, but I forgot to include it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 02/09/2008
- willo I'm a Fan of willo 5 fans permalink

They will borrow the money from China so that people can go to Walmart and spend it on Chinese made goods. Whose economy are they stimulating?
Just brilliant borrow more money put it on your children's tab. Our leaders are trully insane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 02/09/2008
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Our leaders are NOT insane.

Our leaders are Corporate Whores.

There is a difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 02/09/2008
- elpollo I'm a Fan of elpollo 3 fans permalink

Hey - you're giving whores a bad name.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:59 AM on 02/10/2008
- VivaZapata I'm a Fan of VivaZapata 63 fans permalink
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That's some acid trip you're on, bud.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 02/09/2008
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