Oh? So you think party insiders should determine the outcome of a vote? You think that follows the supposed Democratic principles of the Democratic Party? That some elite insiders should be able to thwart the popular vote? I wouldn't want to be in whatever party YOU'RE in, buddy.

Florida and Michigan screwed themselves over by tinkering with the rules. No matter how fair or unfair those rules are, moving up your primaries without party assent, meaning, the assent of the other states, is wrong. By moving up those primaries, they cheapen the primaries in those states they decided to usurp. That's not the right thing to do and they were punished for it. If they're disenfranchised, then they should take that out on their own state Democratic Party for screwing them over.

Jack, you say: "Donna Brazile is a JOKE. It was HER FAULT, more than anyone, that we are in this mess in the first place. She is the IDIOT who disenfranchised Florida and Michigan. If those states had not been "penalized", for God knows what IDIOTIC rule, the election would have been OVER a month ago"

To which I respond: AMEN and well said!!!! I have several posts to this effect a while back in the discussion. Brazile is, in fact, an unfair idiot. I want her and Dean OUT of the DNC!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Preferably, I want them out of the party, but I'll take just getting them out of the DNC.

As I said earlier in the discussion, if she didn't want the nominating process to come down to her super delegate vote, then she shouldn't have disenfranchised the MILLIONS of voters in Florida and Michigan, who did NOTHING to deserve it. But, I guess Dean's DNC is intent on circling up the firing squad. Man alive!

Those "rules of the game" were created a few decades ago solely for the purpose of quashing the popular vote. That's it. The insiders wanted more control over the process. There's no real serious tradition around superdelegates, none. It's an undemocratic and elitist concept for some party insiders, whom should be treated the same as every other voter, to have their own "special delegate" all to themselves that they can cast either way and throw an election out of balance.

If those folks quash the energy of one side or the other, doesn't matter which, you're going to have a WHOLE lot of disenfranchised voters on your hands going into the general election.

Also, there is an option if you quit the Democratic party. You can become an independent. Lots of people do it. Politicians really want your vote pretty bad. It's not so bad really, unless you live in a state that has closed primaries.

What a dissapointment Brazil has turned out to be. I used to think her a sharp dimplimatic Democrat who stood on principal.

Right now, she is just standing by the black candidate.

I am not sure if she recognizes how stupid she came across when she compared Hillary to Obama by saying Clinton talked about issues and Obama speaks about "Hope."

And this is the argument?

Hope and $5.50 will buy you a latte at Starbucks.

And I honestly don't think they are thinking clearly. I for one will not vote for Obama under any circumstances. Neither will most of my family, my hair dressed, my nail tech and my produce manager, just to name a few.

Some of them would rather vote for McCain (egads) or will just stay home.

And yes, Mrs. Brazil some of us feel that strongly about it. You are counting on all democrats to vote for the democratic candidate, whomever that may be.

Wrong assumption.

Can you tell me where you found these numbers? I've been looking for this information. Do these number have just a state breakdown? Or, are they done by congressional district as well?

It's a little something called fixing the party. This stuff wasn't such a big deal the past couple decades, as there's only been 1 Democratic president elected, and most of the time there's one candidate that is way out in the lead by the time the superdelegates get around to casting their votes.

This primary brings it all into focus because it's so close. It's not about bringing Florida and Michigan back into it either. They're going to vote the direction they want to and they're not going to fault the major candidate for what their own state Party did to remove them from the primaries. But Clinton supporters like to say that because changing the rules later in the game help out her campaign. If she had lost those states, I doubt you'd be suggesting that Florida and Michigan be brought back in.

Maybe she's trying to make up for her bonehead decision in 2000 to pull Gore's TV spots from Ohio. She is a much better commentator than she was a campaign manager.

Debating the logistics of what is best for the party vis-a-vis primaries or debates is one thing, but non elected participants holding sway against those more democratic methods will put a terrible stain on the party itself and probably sink the chances for election. Donna is right. If the majority of voting people go for Hillary, she should get the nomination. If they go for Obama, he should. Simple as that.

"I'd imagine that many of the white women who have supported Hillary Clinton will feel the same way if she wins the primary process but the Super Delegates throw the election to Barack Obama."

Which is why both groups should agree they'll support either candidate irrespective of grievances that develop along the way. I'm an Obama supporter unhappy with the Clinton tactics and comments by some of her supporters, but I also see her supporters honestly believing that they're the ones not being respected. We're all sure our side is right, and there's no way to convince either of us we're mistaken.

The bottom line is McCain will be worse for all of us than either Barack or Hillary will. We should learn from the Republicans that the way to win elections is to put the differences among ourselves aside until AFTER the election. Beating them has to come first. That's been their strength, and until we learn it we might as well not bother caring about any of this stuff, because they'll just keep beating us anyway.

Donna Brazil has it right, let this race play out, let the voters be heard before these super delegates get involved. Frankly I don't see a reason they should be involved, if either of these candidates wins by one single pledged delegate vote then that's who the candidate should be! Unfortunately for the Clinton's if it comes down Obama wins the pledged delegate votes over Hillary and the super folks who owe them -- then the democratic party will divide and McCain will be our next president. And the DNC better NOT seat FL and MI delegates without a re-do because I will as I suspect others will see this as totally unfair.

Well said. You are right. It may be time for black voters to leave the Democratic party plantation.

Whatever elects who empty suit candidate.

Good one Jazzy !!

Carville's dumb ass has ruined more campaigns.

Bye Bye!! :)

If she feels so strongly about the delegates and fairness blah, blah, blah, then why has she been on CNN everynight - promoting the non stop biased pro Obama, anti-Hillary media campaign.

She 'sold her credibility down the drain' months ago - when she got on the 'best political team on television' that pretend to be ethical.