Mark Penn: Obama Independent Support Would "Evaporate" In General Election

Election Central:

On a conference call with reporters just now, Hillary pollster Mark Penn sought to make the case for her electability by dredging up bad memories of the GOP and right-wing media's successful efforts to redefine Al Gore and John Kerry, arguing that Hillary wouldn't succumb to such tactics....

...Penn said that Hillary has "withstood" this process, while Obama would find that his independent support "would evaporate relatively quickly once he faced the Republicans." Penn added that the GOP "is already playing the national security card against Obama."

Read the whole story: Election Central

Comments

[karmafriend]

hillary's very own fat ass bushshitter.

'nuff said.

[StephenDedalus82]

I know Obamabots don't take reason into account very often, but did it ever occur to anyone that this is a sound argument? Obama is just now starting to get hit on experience and national security. All he has to offer is the same litany of platitudes and empty promises. Eventually a plurality of the American people will choose Mr. War Hero over this crap and won't think twice about it. You are doing your country a disservice by ignoring this potentiality. But I never expected you to be more loyal to your country than to Obama. He is the savior, after all.

[AdLib]

So, the majority of Americans just need slime to make them realize that they don't really want health care, they want to be in Iraq for 100 years, start a war with Iran, keep the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in place and stay the course on the Bush economy?

You think the public is that dumb? Didn't seem like it in SC, the negative campaigns boomeranged then and they will on the Repubs in the GE.

This isn't 2000 or 2004, the disgusting sleaze merchants on the right are welcome to try their outdated tactics again, they will only make the public's resolve to change politics as usual through Obama even more powerful.

[Eoin45]

Fuck You. At 62 I've been reasoning, most likely since before you were born and I take reason into account all the time. You wrote: "But I never expected you to be more loyal to your country than to Obama. He is the savior, after all." How is that Hillary can take twice as much money from the defense industry as John McCain and be called loyal to her country? How is that Hillary's promises arent't empty? She says she'll end the war she voted for purely to increase her conservative bonafides. Take your implied criticism of my patriotism and shove it. Is it a requirement that you be an insulting asshole to support Hillary on this site? Sure seems like it. As an Obama supporter I've planned to vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, but it becames less and less likely by the day when I read posts by arrogant jerks like you.

[zendem1]

Well said,Eoin45. Amen.

[IndependentJones]

StephenDedalus82's tools for debate "Baseless argument with belittling nickname for Obama supporters. Wild claim that questions of experience and national security have just now entered the race. Recycled talking point about lack of substance. Assumption that War Hero status guarantees victory (it worked so well for Kerry, after all). Admonishment of what failure to fall in line will result in. Straw man argument (lifted from Rove) about patriotism. Final straw man."

I am an independent voter. No way does McCain get my vote over Obama.

[Seattlelite]

I love the argument that some how Hillary will be better when it comes to handling national defense I like to remind people that when it came to the most important vote of her career she voted for the war and continued to support Bushes Cowboy mentality.

Then there was Obama, who at the time wasn't able to vote however running for the Senate made a very public speech in opposition against the war and I add, at a time when it was not popular to do so. Everyone thought he was committing political suicide. His wisdom and good judgment at such a critical time should not be overlooked.

[lovethesinner]

I found the best argument against Penn's oleaginous fear monguering, right here at the Huffington post. If you're a Obama supporter, like me, you will want to read this case history of Republicans being literally transformed into "CrunchyCons" by Jennifer Nix:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-nix/crunchy-cons-obama-and-e_b_85910.html

And, as long as we're at it... why is it that all the men in Hillary's camp are so visually challenged? Howard Wolfson looks like "Renfro" from the Dracula movies (the dark circles under his eyes and the stained and pointy teeth) and Mark Penn looks like a central casting character actor playing a halting and sweaty pedophile.

(I'm really not just trying to be mean, it's just curious. Why does Hillary's male staff look so... unwholesome?)

[Ginzaman]

The drug smear against Obama didn't work. So now he does this. And the MSM says they're shocked (but they're secretly loving every minute of this).

[HowietheScreamer]

Wow... Hill pays this dude 5Mil a month? No wonder she's broke

[HowardRoarke]

Mark Penn: Obama Independent Support Would "Evaporate" In General Election

Whereas Hillary has almost no independent support to lose.

[tonyroma]

40,000 citizens in Maine turned out yesterday during a snowstorm to caucus for the Democratic Party. Only 8000 showed up for the Republicans. Yeah Mark, with Democratic voting up 75% across America, all those now voting for Obama will suddenly wake up and see the world as you do. I don't think so. Why not focus your efforts on defending Blackwater and bilking Hillary out of another $4.3 million and leave Democratic politics to those who actually care about the results we get?

[androcles]

Shouldn't Mark (Mr. Objectivity)Penn be more concerned about the money evaporating from Hillary's campaign coffers.

Funny, now he has the ability to see in the future Now I get why he is worth 5 mill for his gig.

[horacekent]

Aside from Karl Rove, is there anyone more replulsive looking than Mark Penn?

He reminds me of a character from the "Austin Powers" movies.

Everytime I see him, I can help but picture him naked, in fron of a focus group, asking them, "Do I make you horny?"

Besides that - you'd think with Obama kicking the crap out of his client Hillary, he'd have other things besides the general election on his mind. Before that comes, he has stop getting punch in the face by Barack everyday.

Go Obama!!

[SShaw490]

Now, are you implying that Rove is more repulsive than Penn? I'm sure Rove resents that remark.

You know what's funny? The longer Obama runs a clean campaign, the dirtier Hillary's looks. And the dirtier Hillary's looks, the better Obama does in the primaries. Think there's any connection there?

Penn's not stupid, though - he got Hillary's money up front.

[horacekent]

In my opinion, the Clintons are politically filthy. Nothing is beneath them & they will say & do anything to win. Should they win, they will come into the White House with 20+ years of political favors to payback & lobbyist to please.

Why can't we make a clean break & fresh start?

I know why the Clintons are fighting to gain & retain power. I think Bill is terrified of being eclipsed by Barack - prior to Obama, many saw Bill as the most charismatic leader, capable of communicating & connecting with people in a way, not seen for a longtime. Compared to Obama, Bill looks quite ordinary.

Do we really want to have to look at, hear & deal with the Clintons again? What's wrong with us? Don't we feel worthy of going for something so much better? The Clintons are filthy!

[BionicWoman]

First of all: Hillary should fire Mark Penn. Between Bill and Mark - the attention is on their stupid comments and not on Hillary. Second, no one should underestimate the Republicans. You think Obama is electible now? Just wait until they get done with him. Nevermind he's from Chicago. You got guys like Tom Delay (aka Mr. Evil) lurking around. Hillary was forced to hold back. The Repugs won't hold back. What dirt they can dig up - they will do. They'll plant dirt if they have to. Obama has no idea what is coming. As Machiavelli said, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Hillary is able to do that. Obama has no idea what that even means.

[AdLib]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz....

[TotobiAyokoh23]

Dear Sophomoric Pollster Penn:-

In your intellectual over-reach, why not apply the same predictive wisdom to your faltering campaign? You cannot even deal with your own internal campaign issues, but you have the audacity to predict what will happen on a national scale!

Your camp entered this primary nomination process with a concealed view of a very sweet, and uncontested victory. BUT, after facing serious competition from the Obama side, and after trying all other communist inferior tactics, you are now jumping the ship to make inicompoopian predictions of what will happen during the general Presidential elections.

Shame Unto You.

Barack Obama Advocate.

[brueso]

well, what would you expect the guy who Billary paid $3 million (or was it $5 million) to run her campaign say? At least there's a CHANCE Obama would get independent and Republican support- we know it's completely the opposite if the name Clinton is on the ballot- in the same way we Demos would be galvanized if the name Bush was on the ballot.

[Canukistani]

Hey, he's just doing his job. How much would Hillary be paying him if he told people that he thought Obama would be a better choice for any reason? This whole thing is just silly.

[ReasonIsMyReligion]

Too much tea-leaf reading. By a Clinton strategist.

But ask yourselves this:

Who would a moderate Republican abandon his party for: a centrist white woman or a leftist black man?

If you're not too PO'd at me already for bringing up race and gender, rerun the question for a moderate Republican WOMAN?

If a significant slice of the Republican party (esp if that slice is biased female) bails, I would guess it will be for Hillary -- not the big leap of faith to Obama.

[Marrob]

If McCain is the nominee and of course all know he will be, Mark Penn is correct. Moderate republicans want their party back and independents like John McCain. The ONLY republicans who don't like McCain are the WACK jobs on the far right. We had better wake up and smell what really cooking here.

[SShaw490]

Well, the Republicans who want their party back are old-school conservatives who want less entanglement in foreign wars - and McCain isn't going to give them that. Old-school Republicans don't like McCain any more than "Hail To Exxon" Republicans do.

[HowietheScreamer]

Too bad for Johnny "Keating 5" McStain, that those "wack jobs" hold the strings of power in the Repubic party... he NEEDS them more than THEY need him.

In fact, they've SAID so. They don't worry if the Repubics lose this year, they'll be back with a guy channeling "St. Ronnie Raygun" in 2012.

[AdLib]

Is this the posting equivalent of push polling? Calling Obama a leftist black man betrays your agenda.

He and Hillary have nearly identical policies, in fact his health care plan is more conservative.

So is it being black that makes him leftist?

Lastly, racially minded white Republicans are welcome to stay in their withering party. Moderate Repubs are invited to join us. However, anyone who understands politics knows that it is independents that make the big difference in elections, not a dependence on those in the opposing party changing parties. How can you not know that?

Clueless or push polling? You decide!

[ReasonIsMyReligion]

Well adlib, push polling was certainly NOT my intent (far be it from me to be the first to notice Hillary has a gender or Obama a skin color), but I reject your false choice. ;-)

You cite health care, the only issue I am aware of on which Hillary is "left" of Obama. In fact, my personal opinion is his paeans to bi-partisanship in this era put him to her right.

BTW, what happened to the canard that Hillary is Republican-lite? Ah, the shifting vagaries of personality politics.

I understand the difference between independents and moderate Republicans just fine, thanks. My comment focused on moderate Republicans. The post focused on independents. Pardon the segue.

Cheers.

[AdLib]

Mark Penn said the black vote for Obama will also dry up and shift to McCain...just before the pigs started flying out of his ear.