Senate OKs New Rules on Eavesdropping

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PAMELA HESS | February 12, 2008 11:28 PM EST | AP

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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nev. right, looks on as Senator Christopher Bond, R-Mo., discusses Senate action on the Foreign intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), Tuesday, Feb. 12,2008, during a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP Photo/Dennis Cook)

WASHINGTON — The Senate on Tuesday approved new rules for government eavesdropping on phone calls and e-mails, giving the White House much of the latitude it wanted and granting legal immunity to telecommunications companies that helped in the snooping after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Protection for the telecom companies is the most prominent feature of the legislation, something President Bush had insisted on as essential to getting private sector cooperation in spying on foreign terrorists and other targets. The bill would give retroactive protection to companies that acted without court permission.

The House did not include the immunity provision in a similar bill it passed last year. House Republicans now want to adopt the Senate bill, which would avoid contentious negotiations to work out differences between the competing legislation.

About 40 lawsuits have been filed against telecom companies by people alleging violations of wiretapping and privacy laws.

Bush promised to veto any new surveillance bill that did not protect the companies, arguing that it is essential if the private sector is to give the government the help it needs.

The president called the Senate bill a good piece of legislation that allows the intelligence community to monitor communications of foreign terrorists while protecting Americans' liberties. He urged the House to pass the bill and send it to his desk without delay.

The Senate bill provides "fair and just liability protection to those private companies who have been sued for billions of dollars only because they are believed to have done the right thing and assisted the nation after the September 11th terrorist attacks," Bush said.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers said Tuesday he still opposes retroactive immunity.

Story continues below

"There is no basis for the broad telecommunications company amnesty provisions advocated by the administration," Conyers wrote in a letter to White House Counsel Fred Fielding asking for documents about the wiretapping program. The documents have been withheld from Congress.

The 68-29 Senate vote Tuesday to update the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act belied the nearly two months of stops and starts and bitter political wrangling that preceded it. The two sides had battled to balance civil liberties with the need to conduct surveillance on potential adversaries.

At issue is the government's post-9/11 Terrorist Surveillance Program, which circumvented a secret court created 30 years ago to oversee such activities. The court was part of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, a law written in response to government abuse of its surveillance authority against Americans.

The surveillance law has been updated repeatedly since then. Congress hastily adopted a FISA modification in August in the face of dire warnings from the White House that changes in telecommunications technology and FISA court rulings were dangerously constraining the government's ability to intercept terrorist communications.

Shortly after its passage, privacy and civil liberties groups said the new law gave the government unprecedented authority to spy on Americans, particularly those who communicate with foreigners.

That law, already extended once, expires Feb. 16.

Doubtful they can work out the differences in the bills by then, Democrats in both the Senate and the House prepared short-term extensions that would keep the law in effect for several more weeks. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky blocked an extension attempt Tuesday. Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the senior Republican on the House Judiciary Committee, said Republicans in the House would fight another extension.

The White House said Bush would not sign another 15-day extension of the law.

"The intelligence community needs this good, long-term legislation, not a patchwork of extensions," presidential spokeswoman Dana Perino said. "The House is risking national security by delaying action, and the president will not sign another extension."

On the way to passage, the Senate rejected by a vote of 67-31 a move to strip away a grant of retroactive legal immunity for the companies. It also rejected two amendments that sought to water down the immunity provision.

One of the amendments, co-sponsored by Republican Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Democrat Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, would have substituted the government for the telecom companies in lawsuits, allowing the court cases to go forward but shifting the cost and burden of defending the program.

The other, pushed by California Democrat Dianne Feinstein, would have given a secret court that oversees government surveillance inside the United States the power to dismiss lawsuits if it found that the companies acted in good faith and on the request of the president or attorney general.

While giving the White House what it wanted on immunity, the Senate also expanded the power of the court to oversee government eavesdropping on Americans. The amendment would give the FISA court the authority to monitor whether the government is complying with procedures designed to protect the privacy of innocent Americans whose telephone or computer communications are captured during surveillance of a foreign target.

The bill would also require FISA court orders to eavesdrop on Americans who are overseas. Under current law, the government can wiretap or search the possessions of anyone outside the United States _ even a soldier serving overseas _ without court permission if it believes the person may be a foreign agent.

"You don't lose your rights when you leave American soil," Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., said in an interview. Wyden wrote the provision into the bill when it was still being considered by the Senate Intelligence Committee. "In the digital age, an American's rights shouldn't depend on their physical geography."

WASHINGTON — The Senate on Tuesday approved new rules for government eavesdropping on phone calls and e-mails, giving the White House much of the latitude it wanted and granting legal immunity t...
WASHINGTON — The Senate on Tuesday approved new rules for government eavesdropping on phone calls and e-mails, giving the White House much of the latitude it wanted and granting legal immunity t...
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THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS WERE WRITTEN FRO INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS NOT FOR GOV'T NOR PRIVATE ENTITIES!!!!THIS IS TREASON!!!
Hillary was just following orders from her Corp sponsors by 'skipping' the vote.
Quite similar to taking a dive in the 2nd round.
She's a Moll for the Corp Mafia. review her record, review the bills she ahs penned while in the Senate, Look at our Armed Services and listen to her silence regarding criminal activities of the Bush admin...who do you think she works for?!?
She needs their Logo tattooed to her head.'Mark of the Beast'. They intend to put a Crown there . It is apparent she had been Promised thsi win when she entered the Senate (should have stayed home, in the kitchen for all I care. She NOT OUR GIRL, she's THEIR BITCH!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 AM on 02/13/2008
- WIpatriot I'm a Fan of WIpatriot 36 fans permalink
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You tell 'em, Purple Girl!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 02/13/2008

RIGHT ON, PURPLE GIRL!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 AM on 02/13/2008

Damn right re the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The Constitution was written to define -- and LIMIT -- the role of the federal government in terms of the then-stronger states.

The Bill of Rights then drove home the point that defined -- and LIMITED -- the powers of the federal government in terms of the formerly king-subjugated "We The People."

Read up. The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. Quite moving.
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/charters.html

If I had a nickel for every American who read the Bible from cover to cover to give to every American who read the charter documents, I'd be rich, and the nation would be the richer.

P.S. Obama skipped the final vote too. Just sayin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 02/13/2008

well lets see how she spins this. let the BS begin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 AM on 02/13/2008
- waynesmyer I'm a Fan of waynesmyer 11 fans permalink

Geez! I knew all along that Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid were soul-mates! But i didn't know that they could "morph" together! Check out the photo in upper-right hand corner!
HARRY REID JOINS THE GOPers! (Grand Old Perverts)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:09 AM on 02/13/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

From the 1970 Steppenwolf release "Monster"



MONSTER - SUICIDE - AMERICA


(Monster)
Once the religious, the hunted and weary
Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
Came to this country to build a new vision
Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
Later some got slaves to gather riches

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

And once the ties with the crown had been broken
Westward in saddle and wagon it went
And 'til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
Many the lives which had come to an end
While we bullied, stole and bought our a homeland
We began the slaughter of the red man

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

The blue and grey they stomped it
They kicked it just like a dog
And when the war over
They stuffed it just like a hog

And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

(Suicide)
The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:06 AM on 02/13/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

continued...

Our cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watching

(America)
America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:09 AM on 02/13/2008
- Rubiconski I'm a Fan of Rubiconski 36 fans permalink
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Wow Feinstein, way to bend over backwards to George Bush's demands yet again. First you crossed the aisle to nominate Michael Mukasey, and many faithful Democrats crossed the aisle with you. But, your vote for telecom immunity was the straw that broke the camel's back. By voting for telecom immunity, you sent the message to the good people of California that the demands of a President with a 30% approval rating trump basic Constitutional rights. This vote set a precedent that the President can shape the law to his desires without regard to the laws, passed by Congress, that are on the books. Senator Feinstien, you have betrayed your constituents today by voting for telecom immunity. Take a good look around you next time you are in the Senate. Barbara Boxer did her job today. She voted in line with the Constitution and would make the Founding Fathers proud. You should think long and hard about switching to the Republican party, because that is where you belong. You are worse than the Republican senators, though. When you crossed the aisle to vote for telecom immunity, or to confirm Michael Mukasey for Attorney General, many faithful Democrats followed you. These other Senators trusted your judgement, Senator Feinstien, and you let them down by voting against the Constitution.

When I was a kid I looked up to you as a leader and a role model. Now I can't wait until Election Day 2012, when I can vote against you. You need to get out of the Senate and get a job, because obviously you are inept at doing the job you were elected to do. You were elected to uphold the Constitution, and today you have demonstrated to me that you have no regard for the Constitution. The Constitution is what holds us, the American people, together. Without it, we have nothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:44 AM on 02/13/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 27 fans permalink
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She'll be find with all the money she enabled her husband to make in war-related contracts, she'll be fine.

Well, she can always get a job as a lobbyist for the telecom industry - that is, if they still need anyone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 02/13/2008
- sfsilver I'm a Fan of sfsilver 3 fans permalink

according to her site she voted Nay.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 02/13/2008
- lungfish I'm a Fan of lungfish 106 fans permalink
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How can Congress legally pass a "retroactive immunity" when it is clearly barred from doing so by the Constitution itself?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 02/13/2008
- lungfish I'm a Fan of lungfish 106 fans permalink
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While all this was going down Hillary spent about an hour in a makeshift television studio in her Arlington, Va., national headquarters conducting interviews via satellite with 10 television stations in Texas, Ohio and Wisconsin.....she was in town and couldn't be bothered to show. Too busy with her political career to uphold something so ephemeral and airy fairy as "principles".

Talk about fucked up priorities... I suppose I should just ignore it and vote for her anyway because if I didnt I would be a woman-hating, wife beating misogynistic white guy....

Obama passed on the vote though he voted against the amendments and cloture... I suppose that if I don't vote for him I am a racist black-bashing Klansman....

Hmmmmmmmmm

How about I vote against any incumbent and say "screw" the vote for President?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 AM on 02/13/2008
- lungfish I'm a Fan of lungfish 106 fans permalink
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How is it that candidates who are already elected officials can be too busy campaigning to demonstrate the principles that they are going around trying to convince us that they have? It is all hot air, they are blowing smoke up our collective asses and people are turning out in droves to approve it...
You know, the movie "The Gangs of New York" was a real stinker but man-o-man we are living it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 02/13/2008
- skyhead I'm a Fan of skyhead 2 fans permalink

What can I say... I agree, neither of the two major Democratic presidential candidates could be bothered to go on record about warrantless wiretapping or telecom immunity. And look at all the Democratic senators that voted for this travesty. Despite my anger about this, and my reluctance to compromise, I still feel as if my only choice is to vote for the lesser evil. Obama or Clinton will still be at least marginally better than four more years of the Republicans, and I am sorry that is the best I can say. And I certainly don't want to harm Democratic chances this year, but I must admit this has made it that much harder to promote either of them. Difficult times.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 AM on 02/13/2008
- l.blissett I'm a Fan of l.blissett 6 fans permalink

"I still feel as if my only choice is to vote for the lesser evil."

skyhead, this is exactly the mindset that they are counting on. if this travesty is ever going to end, it is up to each and every one of us to begin to do some soul-searching to understand how we are each and all being manipulated and how we can each and all participate in order to achieve a different outcome eventually.

perhaps we should all start with a deep rumination on this quote : 'a government of the people, by the people, for the people'...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 02/13/2008
- DebbieKat I'm a Fan of DebbieKat 8 fans permalink

What about Mike Gravel? Folks, please give him a chance! Please read up on him:

www.gravel2008.us and
www.allthingsgravel.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 02/13/2008
- myshadow I'm a Fan of myshadow 10 fans permalink
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webb is the biggest disappointment of all the Quislings. Barak made the right move to come back and VOTE no...I have surrendered to the fact that NO legal brief could be presented to the supreme court as it is now constitutited. That idiot scalia goes on the BBC and basically says it is OK to be jack bauer. It is the only pass I can give to reid and pelosi's complicity. They are all craven bastards..but we couldn't have the supreme court codify the bush illegalities so why they haven't been taken to court ala nixon. That deck is stacked.
We are so fucked...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 AM on 02/13/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

It seems we should keep our eyes on these DEMOCRATIC TRAITORS who voted for this bill, or [did not vote against it]*:

1) Baucus (D-MT)
2) Bayh (D-IN)
3) Carper (D-DE)
4) Casey (D-PA)
5) Clinton (D-NY)*
6) Conrad (D-ND)
7) Inouye (D-HI)
8) Johnson (D-SD)
9) Kohl (D-WI)
10) Landrieu (D-LA)
11) Lincoln (D-AR)
12) McCaskill (D-MO)
13) Mikulski (D-MD)
14) Nelson (D-FL)
15) Nelson (D-NE)
16) Obama (D-IL)*
17) Pryor (D-AR)
18) Rockefeller (D-WV)
19) Salazar (D-CO)
20) Webb (D-VA)
21) Whitehouse (D-RI)

All these individuals are traitors, but some of the names on this list are especially disappointing: Clinton, Obama, and Webb. The individuals on this list are not true progressives, nor are they true Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 AM on 02/13/2008
- myshadow I'm a Fan of myshadow 10 fans permalink
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you lie like a rug...
Obama voted NO
clinton was a no show.
I'm pissed too, but tell the truth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 02/13/2008

There is alot of confusion on this because there were several votes on amendments before the final Bill (with telecom immunity) was finally voted through. Obama voted to strip the telecom immunity provision from the Bill in an earlier amendment, but did not vote on final passage. Clinton didn't vote on any of the amendments or the Bill itself. Stabenow voted against stripping the telecom provision from the Bill, but voted against passage of the final Bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 AM on 02/13/2008
- HLMerkin I'm a Fan of HLMerkin 2 fans permalink
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This (*) means that on these votes rixhex56 is lying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:55 AM on 02/13/2008
- l.blissett I'm a Fan of l.blissett 6 fans permalink

"This (*) means that on these votes rixhex56 is lying."

those in glass houses should not throw stones amigo...

straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020

until each candidate can explain their reason for not voting on the BILL itself, they should both be held accountable, no matter what the vote is.

remember, this bill greatly affects the powers of the next president as well...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 02/13/2008
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one number for congress is
(202) 224 -3121

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 AM on 02/13/2008

I just called each member of congress who voted to give the telecommunication companies immunity. I got through to most of them but some message boxes were full. Hope they were filled with messages from those of us who are sick about the direction of this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 02/13/2008
- kae I'm a Fan of kae 4 fans permalink

Thanks, I'm sending this list to every email I have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 02/13/2008

The only people who would know they were wire tapped would be those against whom the wire tap evidence was used in court. So far, there haven't been any defendants who have had warrantless wire tapping information used against them. So the problem is....? The information is being used to prevent attacks not to prosecute. And just what wire taps would you like to require warrants for?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 02/13/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

ALL wiretaps...

For you to think you know what the government is doing with this information is either very naive, or selectively stupid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 AM on 02/13/2008
- Cunningham I'm a Fan of Cunningham 127 fans permalink
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"And just what wire taps would you like to require warrants for?"


ALL OF THEM!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 AM on 02/13/2008

You would require US military forces to get warrants to intercept foreign communications? So a US Air Force pilot must have warrant to intercept radio communications between al Qaeda members while flying over Afghanistan? Would you require warrants for the US Navy to intercept communications on the high seas? The NSA must have warrants to intercept foreign communications? If the US repositions a spy satellite would the warrants required be one for each country or one for each foreign government department or one for each foreign person or one for each foreign activity? How would this work?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 02/13/2008
- hmmmmm I'm a Fan of hmmmmm 4 fans permalink
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"there haven't been any defendants who have had warrantless wire tapping information used against them. So the problem is....?"

Do you even know why FISA was passed in the first place? Obviously not. If you did, you would know that the fear isn't that the government will take you to court. Its that they will:

*get you fired
*falsify your tax returns, then sick the IRS on you
*provide assistance to your business competitors
*damage your standing in the public eye
*block your attempts to get government grants or loans

very little of this happened in court, and when it did, defendants had NO IDEA that the eavesdropping by the government is what led to the action.

So, you see, Congress decided that a warrant would provide a record of all government eavesdropping, thereby making crooked politicians think twice about spying on their enemies. They were even smart enough to figure out that the warrant might need to be kept secret, so as not to tip off real criminals that they were being surveiled, so the FISA statute and court was born.

Now ask yourself this question:

If Bush and company weren't doing anything illegal with the current NSA programs, why is he insisting on RETROACTIVE IMMUNITY for the Telecom companies he bullied into breaking the law?

Only the guilty need immunity from prosecution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 AM on 02/13/2008
- Slagfish I'm a Fan of Slagfish 3 fans permalink

hmmmmm, you just nailed the real danger in these warrantless wiretaps. Since 9/ll the power structure has gone after their real enemies, their own people. The patriot act, warrantless wiretapping, etc are but a few examples. Whats so disappointing about this recent vote was the number of dems who joined the repubs in this latest assault on freedom and privacy, proving once again that there's no difference in the parties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 AM on 02/13/2008

Can you support your claims with even one specific case? Or do you suppose that it happens and is so secret no one knows? Kind of the if there's evidence its true and if there's no evidence it's so well hidden that lack of evidence also means it's true?

*get you fired
*falsify your tax returns, then sick the IRS on you
*provide assistance to your business competitors
*damage your standing in the public eye
*block your attempts to get government grants or loans

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:12 AM on 02/13/2008
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If this doesn't wake people up to the fact that our government is becoming nothing less than a hard-core corporate fascists,the jig's up.

Everything that America was is being destroyed by these assholes,and we just sit back in front of the PC or the big screen and ignore it.It's enough to make a guy give up on his fellow citizens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 02/13/2008
- ElkoJohn I'm a Fan of ElkoJohn 16 fans permalink
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`
check out Ron Paul as an alternative to the Corporate Dems
,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 AM on 02/13/2008
- HLMerkin I'm a Fan of HLMerkin 2 fans permalink
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Ron Paul is a valid alternative for the Corporate Republicans. But the ideals of a Democrat are very different from the ideals of the lone principled Republican running for President. Progressives, anarchists, left libertarians, labor activists, and a whole lot of decent people who don't go by labels but just resent the corporate stranglehold on our governemnt are not represented. We should all be so lucky as to have Russ Feingold or Bernie Sanders represent us. For all but those represented by the 31 who voted against this treasonous legislation, you are fucked. And thanks to them we all are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 02/13/2008
- KaAp I'm a Fan of KaAp 23 fans permalink

Please read carefully ... what was the important part to be in the Senate for was the Dodd amendment ... Obama voted for the amendment
stop trying to spin it any other way ... Obama did the correct thing and Clinton was nowhere to be found ... the list of Senators and their votes has already been put on this site by others
Vote 15

* Question: On the Amendment
* Bill: S 2248
* Vote description: Dodd Amdt. No. 3907; To strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.Washington Post

According to politico.com
The vote also provided an opportunity to showcase the key differences on national security between presidential candidates, as Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) voted against immunity for telecoms, and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), voted to keep immunity in the bill. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) did not show up for the vote. All three candidates were in the Washington area Tuesday morning for the region's three primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 02/13/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

KaAp,

Once the amendment was defeated, it was as important, if not moreso, to stick around and vote against the bill itself, which provided immunity. Which part of this process do you not understand? What was the point of voting for the amendment to strip immunity from the bill, if after that amendment failed, you do not vote against the bill?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 AM on 02/13/2008
- cynara I'm a Fan of cynara 14 fans permalink

Too true.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 02/13/2008
- aznurse I'm a Fan of aznurse 65 fans permalink

Well, I couldn't find a mention of this on the news tonight, with all the coverage of the caucuses or primaries and all. I did just see on MSNBC that say Federal contract fraud crackdown has loophole;exempts Iraq and other overseas work. No mention on FISA as far as I could see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 AM on 02/13/2008
- Cunningham I'm a Fan of Cunningham 127 fans permalink
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"The Senate bill provides "fair and just liability protection to those private companies who have been sued for billions of dollars only because they are believed to have done the right thing and assisted the nation after the September 11th terrorist attacks," Bush said."


Don't forget that they were spying on us BEFORE 9-11, too.

Fucking fascists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 AM on 02/13/2008
- HLMerkin I'm a Fan of HLMerkin 2 fans permalink
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9-11 changed everything. They now believe they have permission to do what they began doing before it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 AM on 02/13/2008
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So the terrorists win another one, thanks to Bush and the Republicans and now the incredibly disappointing Republicrats they're able to drag along with them.

When will we stop them from bringing down America and her long-cherished ideals? WE were supposed to be a shining beacon of hope to the world.

This one definitely reinforces my respect for Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 02/13/2008
- l.blissett I'm a Fan of l.blissett 6 fans permalink

obama also skipped the vote on the BILL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 02/13/2008
- DebbieKat I'm a Fan of DebbieKat 8 fans permalink

Wait. Who are the terrorists again?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 02/13/2008

Let’s remember Democracy is a radical concept, and flawed because we humans are hardwired for self-preservation -not cooperation, unless it is self-serving. Those in power will always seek to placate and distract the masses while they busy themselves with amassing resources. Leaders never have and never will serve out of pure benevolence. We can obsess about voting records all we like and fill blog after blog with our theories but it’s all meaningless if the only action we’ve taken is selecting Candidate A over Candidate B. Unplug the television and the computer (if you can) and put this passion into your community, it’s there we’ll teach the next generation of policy makers to respect the power of an engaged electorate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 02/12/2008
- ElkoJohn I'm a Fan of ElkoJohn 16 fans permalink
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`
flawed bc the big money w/ their NeoCons control the DC Fed. gov.
support Ron Paul to return to the Constitution.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 AM on 02/13/2008
- DebbieKat I'm a Fan of DebbieKat 8 fans permalink

Or Mike Gravel. Even better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 02/13/2008
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