Justice Department: Waterboarding Not Legal

Associated Press:

A senior Justice Department official says laws and other limits enacted since three terrorism suspects were waterboarded has eliminated the technique from what is now legally allowed, going a step beyond what CIA Director Michael Hayden has said.

"The set of interrogation methods authorized for current use is narrower than before, and it does not today include waterboarding," Steven G. Bradbury, acting head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, says in remarks prepared for his appearance Thursday before the House Judiciary Constitution subcommittee.

Read the whole story: Associated Press

Comments

[underdog]

Wow, the next thing you know, they'll come up with some wacky notion that lying to congress is illegal. (except for the King and his minions of course)

[tooblue]

Not legal? I hear they're going to make waterboarding a new olympic sport.
See http://purpleamerica.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/waterboarding-new-olympic-sport/

[WIDESTANCE]

OH HALLELUJAH, PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!

NOW IF WE CAN JUST GET THE REPUBLITARDS TO OUTLAW THE OTHER 57 TYPES OF ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL TORTURE AND THE SECRET RENDITION OF "ENEMY COMBATANTS" TO UNDISCLOSED LOCATIONS IN SECRET CIA PLANES...

[Quadspect]

Since when was an act's being illegal, stop this administration from committing it? And who is going to meaningfully enforce this law? And what is the punishment for its violation?

[Birdman]

The last line of the article makes all of what was said before worthless. It is kind of like a Bush signing statement. Here it is "Waterboarding is still officially in the CIA tool kit but it requires the consent of the attorney general and president on a case-by-case basis." So illegal or not they can still use it if the AG and the Pres say its ok.

[johnnyjust]

Since water boarding was used three times (with definable results) and not since 2003, this is a moot point. Except it shows, again, that liberals care more about terrorists than the safety of US citizens.

Oh, that's right. We are the terrorists. Keep drinking that kool-aid.

[gonnuts]

What proof do you have of your "difinable (definable - learn to spell, dumb-ass) results"? How does one know that anything obtained through torture is legitimate or not just something they say to stop the torture? How do you justify that we executed 6 Japanese for water-boarding Americans and say it's okay when we do it? By what criteria do we hold the moral high ground by becoming what we abhor in others? How do you live with such obvious hypocrisy?

[wiretapped]

As the administration's lies clear, the truth comes out. In the case of Abu Zubaydah, everything of value was obtained from him by the FBI using humane interrogation. This includes the whereabouts of Khalid Sheik Mohammed. After that the CIA took over, waterboarded him and he's been unreliable ever since.

This shows again that you cowards care more about Bush's lies than actually protecting this country and its principles. Wimp!

[Quadspect]

Seems Johnny Just is confusing patriotism with hate, arrogance, stupidity and sadism.

[Grunty1]

You actually believe the Bushies??

[Birdman]

Yes, yes, saying untrue things does not make it true no matter how many times you repeat it. How many times do YOU have to be told, time and again, torture produces no results, never has never will the FBI has testified several times on this issue and has stated so.

I also bet if you were some soldier captured by the enemy you would not want to be tortured. But bush has enabled every stinking crazy out there to make it perfectly legal. Besides, being brighter then your captured terrorists not only shows you are better human then they are, but will get you results. But you go ahead, defend the indefensible I just wish narrow minded people such as yourself could be deported.

[wm1066]

It will henceforth be called Deep Water Swimming Lessons. The term waterboarding will no longer be used under penalty of Deep Water Swimming lessons!
See how that works?

[Stretchumall]

"Here comes da Judge, Here comes da Judge, Here comes da Judge"
Judge: Sir, how do you pleed?
Defendant: I pleed insanity your honor.
Judge: Insanity?
Defendant: Yes your honor. I'm crazy about that shit.

Got Rope?

[Canukistani]

This is all well and good, but unless there are either penalties for those who have been doing waterboarding, or apologies and reparations paid to families of Japanese citizens who were apparently wrongly executed for the same crime after WWII this is just an empty gesture. It may soothe members of Congress who can say they tried to stop it but it does not address the issue in any direct and honest way.

Outlawing something that was already against the law merely provides convenient political cover for anyone who has condoned it for these past years, not to mention any of the other torture techniques that have been used and not yet revealed. It's just another contemptible tactic to avoid the consequences and perhaps salve the consciences of those who should know better if anyone in Congress still has anything resembling a conscience. This Congress demeans the country it was elected to serve.

[Birdman]

You make some very good points but the last line of the article makes it all moot anyway here it is.

Waterboarding is still officially in the CIA tool kit but it requires the consent of the attorney general and president on a case-by-case basis.

[scooperss]

Water boarding was NEVER legal. Japanese soldiers were prosecuted for waterboarding Americans. *On January 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a controversial photograph of an American soldier supervising the waterboarding of a North Vietnamese POW. The photograph led to the soldier being court-martialled by a U.S. military court within one month of its publication, and he was thrown out of the army.*

Never legal

[MagisterLudi]

Finally.
Condoning torture was an idiotic stance for a Western country.
Now if Justice Department can get convictions and for Gitmo 6. Gitmo is no country club. Just put them in general population prison under a child molester's rap. Especially Khalid "Honey Buns" Shaikh Mohammed.

[ronspri]

Duh! This is like one of those, how much did we pay for that study? What geniuses.(­?)

[rollingdivision]

This senate bill is Ill advised and purely political with a few notable exceptions. One being Feingold. But unless the congress specifically outlaws presidential pardons, prosecutor"s discretion, jury nullification and the necessity defense extreme interrogation will be effectively allowed. And this is good.
From a post by Eugene Volokh."..­.presumabl­y we'd also retain prosecutorial discretion -- for at least over 100 years, an even more accepted part of our system than jury nullification. If it's morally OK for the jury to acquit someone who they think did the right thing even though he violated the law, then it's also OK for the prosecutor to refuse to prosecute him (and, as I mentioned, for the President to pardon him)." "But let's just make this clear, because it shows that "the prohibition against torture" ... isn't really a firm prohibition after all."
"Furthermore, another part of our existing laws is the necessity defense. Under the necessity defense (at least as stated in the Model Penal Code; other formulations may differ):
(1) Conduct that the actor believes to be necessary to avoid a harm or evil to himself or to another is justifiable, provided that:(a) the harm or evil sought to be avoided by such conduct is greater than that sought to be prevented by the law defining the offense charged; and(b) neither the Code nor other law defining the offense provides exceptions or defenses dealing with the specific situation involved; and(c) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed does not otherwise plainly appear.
This essentially gives courts the same power as juries and prosecutors to decide -- though as a matter of law and not unguided and unreviewable discretion -- that an exception needs to be made when it's really important.­"

[Grunty1]

So when are charges being brought up under the OLD torture ban?

[rollingdivision]

This senate bill is Ill advised and purely political with a few notable exceptions. One being Feingold. But unless the congress specifically outlaws presidential pardons, prosecutor’s discretion, jury nullification and the necessity defense extreme interrogation will be effectively allowed. And this is good.

From a post by Eugene Volokh.
"...presum­ably we'd also retain prosecutorial discretion -- for at least over 100 years, an even more accepted part of our system than jury nullification. If it's morally OK for the jury to acquit someone who they think did the right thing even though he violated the law, then it's also OK for the prosecutor to refuse to prosecute him (and, as I mentioned, for the President to pardon him)." “But let's just make this clear, because it shows that "the prohibition against torture" ... isn't really a firm prohibition after all."

"Furthermore, another part of our existing laws is the necessity defense. Under the necessity defense (at least as stated in the Model Penal Code; other formulations may differ):

(1) Conduct that the actor believes to be necessary to avoid a harm or evil to himself or to another is justifiable, provided that:
(a) the harm or evil sought to be avoided by such conduct is greater than that sought to be prevented by the law defining the offense charged; and
(b) neither the Code nor other law defining the offense provides exceptions or defenses dealing with the specific situation involved; and
(c) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed does not otherwise plainly appear.

This essentially gives courts the same power as juries and prosecutors to decide -- though as a matter of law and not unguided and unreviewable discretion -- that an exception needs to be made when it's really important.­"

[tafkaMinneapolisMike]

For the last time - it does not matter if waterboarding is illegal. It does not even matter if waterboarding is effective. It does not matter if the information received when waterboarding leads to stopping any terorists or is simply some bizarre lie made up by the person who is being tortured just to save their life. None of it matters.

All that matters is that the USA should not only be allowed to waterboard whoever they want whenever they want for whatever reason they want, but we should be encouraged to waterboard at all times. We can and must set the example to all other countries that we are the supreme Kick Ass Cowboys of the entire world and we can do whatever we want and no one can stop us!

We rule all of you! USA! USA! USA!

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