Bush Says Congress Putting US in Danger

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PAMELA HESS | February 15, 2008 05:43 PM EST | AP

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President Bush pauses as he answers questions on the "Protect America Act", Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008, on the South Lawn of the White House in Washington. The president said he will delay his five-nation trip to Africa if necessary to help members of the House pass a bill governing U.S. eavesdropping on phone calls and e-mails of suspected terrorists. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

WASHINGTON — With a government eavesdropping law about to expire, Washington is awash in accusations over who's to blame. President Bush said Friday that "our country is in more danger of an attack" because of Congress' failure to adopt a Senate bill that would have renewed a law that made it easier for the government to spy on foreign phone calls and e-mails that pass through the United States.

That bill also would have shielded from lawsuits telecommunications companies that helped the government wiretap U.S. computer and phone lines after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks without clearance from a secret court that was established specifically to oversee such activities. In its competing version of the legislation, the House intentionally left out that feature.

"American citizens must understand, clearly understand that there's still a threat on the homeland. There's still an enemy which would like to do us harm," Bush said. "We've got to give our professionals the tools they need, to be able to figure out what the enemy is up to so we can stop it."

"By blocking this piece of legislation, our country is more in danger of an attack," he said.

Democrats, in turn, accused Bush of fear-mongering and misrepresenting the facts.

"This is not about protecting Americans. The president just wants to protect American telephone companies," Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, head of the House Democratic Caucus, said Friday.

Beyond the rhetoric, the central issue is what the government can and can't do come midnight Saturday, when a temporary eavesdropping law adopted by Congress last August expires.

That law let the government initiate wiretaps for up to one year against a wide range of targets. It also explicitly compelled telecommunications companies to comply with the orders, and protected them from civil lawsuits that may be filed against them for doing so.

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But while the wiretaps can go on after the law expires, the compliance orders and the liability protections disappear. That's because of a quirk in the way the law was written, says Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell.

"There is no longer a way to compel the private sector to help us," he said in an Associated Press interview.

Democrats dispute that assertion. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said that even when the law expires, existing wiretapping orders would continue to protect telecom companies.

Regardless of who's right about that point, the government can eavesdrop after the law expires. It would simply have to go back to its old procedures, getting orders approved by the super-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

McConnell rejects that option. He says the process of getting court orders is cumbersome and ties intelligence agents up in red tape.

The 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) requires the court to approve wiretaps inside the United States, a process meant to protect U.S. citizens from potential government abuses of authority. But changes in technology since then mean most of the world's computer and phone traffic passes through the United States, much of it on fiber-optic cable. Successive court cases say court orders are needed to listen in on any of them, McConnell said.

To get a court order, intelligence agents have to prove they have "probable cause" to believe a target is a foreign agent or terrorist before being allowed to tap a line inside the United States, even if the communication originates and ends in a foreign country.

It is difficult for intelligence agents piecing together shreds of information to get enough to merit probable cause, McConnell said. By the time they can amass enough information to do that, the phone number they wanted to track might already be obsolete, he said.

"More than likely we would miss the very information we need to prevent some horrendous act from taking place in the United States," he said.

The FISA law does make provisions for emergencies _ instances where there is no time to fill out the paperwork. Within a few days, though, the paperwork must be completed and probable cause must be proved to get an order approved.

House Democrats had sought to extend the current law temporarily to buy time to work out a longer-term compromise. The White House objected, and the attempt failed as Republicans were joined by conservative Democrats to defeat the move. McConnell acknowledged that the administration's opposition was intended to pressure Congress to do what Bush wants.

McConnell says an extension would fail to address a central problem: delaying legal immunity for companies that help in the warrantless wiretapping program could lead phone companies to challenge wiretapping orders in court as a way to insulate themselves from future lawsuits.

Already, he says the roughly 40 lawsuits filed against telecom companies nationwide have chilled the private sector's willingness to help the intelligence agencies in ways unrelated to electronic surveillance. Exactly how is classified, and he won't elaborate.

"I'm talking about the things they've done to help us track terrorists," said McConnell. "They did lawful things at the request of the government under the conditions they've done it for 50 years."

But that help has waned over the last two years, he said. "Your country is at risk if we can't get the private sector to help us, and that is atrophying all the time," he said.

Lawmakers left town Thursday for a 12-day recess but both sides are working behind the scenes. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney met with Republican congressional leaders in the Oval Office to discuss the impasse with the Democratic-led House. House and Senate Democratic leaders met in Hoyer's office to hammer out plans for a conference in which Republicans will be asked to join, Hoyer said. Republicans say they won't participate.

WASHINGTON — With a government eavesdropping law about to expire, Washington is awash in accusations over who's to blame. President Bush said Friday that "our country is in more danger of an att...
WASHINGTON — With a government eavesdropping law about to expire, Washington is awash in accusations over who's to blame. President Bush said Friday that "our country is in more danger of an att...
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- TLV I'm a Fan of TLV 121 fans permalink

Without our Fourth Amendment rights, we are ALL in danger:

It states...
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 02/15/2008
- Lemeritus I'm a Fan of Lemeritus 109 fans permalink
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GET A WARRANT!
GET A WARRANT!
GET A WARRANT!

What's so hard about this basic principle? Does anyone really believe it's faster to go through every piece of electronic communication in hopes of finding one terrorist link than it is to obtain a warrant based on reasonable cause? Perhaps reasonable cause is the problem.

As Americans, we must not be frightened into believing that this was ever anything more than an 'unwarranted' invasion of our right to be secure in our effects. Bush's continued efforts to force FISA and retroactive immunity on us is merely an attempt to cover his tracks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 02/15/2008

Well it isn't just that simple. There are many circumstances where no warrants are required for searches. And, you may have gotten one thing right, probable cause for foreign to foreign and foreign to domestic data and communication inception, monitoring and recording is the problem. There is no way to know beforehand what information will be available to intercept from foreign sources or who will be the source of information or when any particular information will be available. So inherently there is no way for the government to meet the requirements for warrants for international communications. It is a fishing trip. Question is do foreigners communicating to foreigners outside of the USA have 4th amendment rights? And in the case of foreign to domestic communications, question is if no US citizens are the subject and no US citizens are subject to prosecution are their 4th amendment rights violated?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 02/15/2008
- JTyroler I'm a Fan of JTyroler 41 fans permalink

I hope I survive the rest of the Bush presidency - just reading or watching the news has caused an unhealthy increase in my blood pressure. Bush is killing me (and hundreds of thousands others)! Sen. Reid of Nevada isn't helping things either - I'm more than willing to give him my testicles (he doesn't seem to have any of his own)....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 02/15/2008
- TLV I'm a Fan of TLV 121 fans permalink

I just realized that if the telecom companies can have what they discover scrutinized, then the intercepts they make can become public knowledge thereby making what Sibel Edmonds has found as open to public scrutiny as anything At&T has found. In other words, if the State Department really has broken laws by dealing with terrorists, then we have every right to hear about it and Sibel can have her gag removed!

Go Leahy! Get this out in the open!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 02/15/2008
- TLV I'm a Fan of TLV 121 fans permalink

"Wanna go for a little ride? Let’s start with Hastert. The House Speaker has received contributions from Turkish sources to the tune of at least $500,000, and Edmonds knows that there are tapes from wiretaps that will back up this claim. One of the groups who bragged on those tapes about these illegal contributions was the American Turkish Council (ATC), but Hastert denies any ties to this or other Turkish groups. Yet between 1996 and 2002, Hastert made multiple trips to Turkey and would return home with so many “gifts” that his support staff was surprised that the “plane even got off the ground.”

http://www.counterbias.com/789.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 02/15/2008
- TLV I'm a Fan of TLV 121 fans permalink

"Sibel stated in an interview in 2005 that “You can start from the AIPAC angle. You can start from the Plame case. You can start from my case. They all end up going to the same place, and they revolve around the same nucleus of people. There may be a lot of them, but it is one group. And they are very dangerous for all of us.”

Of Course Bush wants us to keep wiretapping while certain taps are kept secret. He is protecting the drug-traffickers and corrupt intell services.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 02/15/2008
- oregonrain I'm a Fan of oregonrain 13 fans permalink
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With all the Bush scandals , the Sibel Edmonds case is a huge tip of the "iceberg". But, will congress let her speak ? Im doubtful , there are so many of them involved ! Vote out all incumbants , then , we might get the truth , the whole truth , and , nothing but the truth !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:56 PM on 02/15/2008
- BrickSykes I'm a Fan of BrickSykes 41 fans permalink

You know? I think the Trolls are Mad Today! I guess it's not everyday their Heroes in Congress get their ASSES handed to them! Gee, it must really hurt to have to run out of the frickin' building 'cause you're so MAD and there's nothing you can do about it! I guess they're really Hopping Mad!

(Apparently they don't remember that "Whom the Gods wish to Destroy, They First Make MAD!")

Brick

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 02/15/2008
- neocon43 I'm a Fan of neocon43 29 fans permalink

Actually I think we won the election for president today.When Mccain gets done with Obama over not renewing fiza act it will be over.Bricksykes is drinking the move on koolade again!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 02/15/2008
- SirReal1 I'm a Fan of SirReal1 65 fans permalink

We?

Was that an admission that you are a "paid Republican Troll I just heard?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 02/15/2008

Has anyone on here thought this through? In order to listen to the terrorists, we need the cooperation of the telecom companies. They do not get to pick and choose what info they provide, nor would we want them to. They provide what the government asks. They complied with the government because they were asked to, and because of it, they are being sued for millions of dollars for simply doing what they were asked to do. Even if they win it still costs them millions, and the only winners are the trial lawyers. So then they are left with the other alternative, which is not provide the information to the govt., which means they would be breaking the law. This is not about "protecting" the telecom companies, it's about being fair and getting their cooperation, which is essential.
Think about it another way: suppose you have friend who works at a telecom company, and his company ends up paying millions for lawsuits for complying with the government. In order to pay for it, they need to lay some people off, including your friend. How would you explain it to your friend that it was the right thing, that he deserved to get fired? The money companies pay for lawsuits doesn't come out of the CEO's pocket, it comes out of their consumer's pockets, and if they can't pass on the cost to consumers, then it comes out of the pockets of the employees they have to lay off. That's not evil, it's just the way business works. By wanting telecom companies to get sued for doing nothing wrong, you are advocating people losing good-paying jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 02/15/2008
- FiddleDD2 I'm a Fan of FiddleDD2 10 fans permalink

Sweet Jeebus....

FISA was written with the cooperation of AT&T to ensure they had the clarity they needed -- if they received written certification of legality from the AG, then they were required to cooperate with surveillance requests, but if they did not receive such certification, then the requests were by definition illegal and they were prohibited from doing so. The law already provides all the protections telecoms need and wanted for legal surveillance on Americans. This was the law they deliberately broke when they allowed the Bush administration to spy on Americans without warrants.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 02/15/2008

You should probably reconsider your moniker. I believe that "MrWingnutTalkingPoints" is still available.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 02/15/2008
- BlackJAC I'm a Fan of BlackJAC 68 fans permalink

And if Bush said that drinking antifreeze combatted terrorism, the next morning we'd find you dead with at least a gallon of the stuff in your stomach. Vote Republican: it's easier than thinking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 02/15/2008

ROFL! Post of the day!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 02/15/2008
- TS I'm a Fan of TS 17 fans permalink

What complete crap. If you wantto wiretap get a warrant. If you have reasonable suspicion, there is absolutely zero evidence that warrant would not be provided, further the current FISA laws allow for wiretapping without warrant as it is, you just have to seek one after the fact. If the warrant is denied there are no penalties other than the fact that information gathered without a warrant isn't admissable in trial. I've yet to hear a single reason why the current FISA provisions are somehow insufficient or unreasonable, and you r post sure as hell isn't making one.

As for your "friend working for the telecom" scenario. Why the hell would I support illegal activity? Are you actually suggesting that we should overlook both the breaking of specific laws and the violation of rights guaranteed by the constitution (which is very, very specific on the issue of warrants) because a friend of ours might get laid off? Talk about a serious stretch...if the telecoms don't want any problems with lawsuits, perhaps they should behave like the rest of us and simply not break the law. Your last argument is even lamer. You are saying that the telecoms will pass the cost of paying any legal judgement against them on to the consumer, so they should somehow not be held responsible for their actions. Nice logic champ. You parted ways with reason a long, long time ago.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 02/15/2008
- TLV I'm a Fan of TLV 121 fans permalink

Not to worry, MrReasonable. If the telecom companies did nothing wrong, they have no reason to fear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 02/15/2008
- LeftLeaner I'm a Fan of LeftLeaner 26 fans permalink
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That's correct.

Plus, who ever heard of granting immunity for "ALLEGED" acts.

Bush is just covering his butt, cause if they get prosecuted for breaking the law, they'll take Dumbya down with them as he was the one who ordered the law breaking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 02/15/2008

In all seriousness, folks, this can't be said often enough...contact your Representative and the House Leadership (Pelosi, Hoyer and Clyburn) and thank them for standing up to the president, and encourage them to continue to do so. They need to know that we're behind them on this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 02/15/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Yes sir!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 02/15/2008
- JaneC I'm a Fan of JaneC 277 fans permalink
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Done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 02/15/2008
- FiddleDD2 I'm a Fan of FiddleDD2 10 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 02/15/2008
- JaneC I'm a Fan of JaneC 277 fans permalink
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Thank you FDD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 02/15/2008

Will do, FDD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 02/15/2008
- izzat7 I'm a Fan of izzat7 5 fans permalink

Yes,thank you.DONE

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 02/15/2008

Done. Thanks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 02/15/2008
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Happy to join in!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 02/15/2008
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DONE...

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 PM on 02/15/2008
- neocon43 I'm a Fan of neocon43 29 fans permalink

Please keep standing up so republican will win whitehouse.This is great!85% of the country does not mind if we do this to stop a attack.Keep it going!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 02/15/2008
- SirReal1 I'm a Fan of SirReal1 65 fans permalink

Citation for "85% of the country does not mind"?

Pulling numbers out of thin air is called "an argument from ignorance"; It is a logical fallacy, but that's about what we have come to expect from you trolls.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 02/15/2008

According to MItch the McCornball, the entire telecom industry is going to go out of business,....by Tuesday!

So much for internet tubes, ET phoning home and the return of the passenger pigeon.

It's Doom & Despair Weekend.
I just hope Wisconsin gets to have it's primary first....just for spite.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 02/15/2008
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This is simple: if the telecom companies hadn't broken the law, they wouldn't need immunity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 02/15/2008

The main person putting the US in danger is Bush himself. He has put the US in danger since he stole the election in 2000 and he just keeps getting worse.
Keith Olbermann was correct last night when he called Bush a fascist.
I am glad to see Congress at least show signs of having a backbone now. I just wish the Senate would take notes and grow a backbone of their own. This FISA vote by the senate made me absolutely sick to my stomach. I urge everyone to write and call their Senators, as I did, and let them know exactly how you feel about their cowardice and complicity with a fascist regime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 02/15/2008

I agree, I loved that Keith Olbermann segment last night. I emailed my Senators and told them I will not vote for them ever again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:17 PM on 02/15/2008
- pizzmoe I'm a Fan of pizzmoe 20 fans permalink

The Republican party has nothing to sell but fear

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 02/15/2008

I sincerely hope that one day Bush has to stand before the Supreme Court and argue that he assumed extra-Constitutional authority because the Federalist Papers told him he could ROFL!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 02/15/2008
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The federalist arguments went out of their way to play down executive authority under the new constitution. It kills me that hobson is quoting them

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 02/15/2008
- JaneC I'm a Fan of JaneC 277 fans permalink
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He can't help himself. He's got those steadily depressing,low down, mind messing working at the carwash blues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 02/15/2008

You can do something now:
Demand a House-Senate conference to produce a fair FISA bill!

Go to Patrick Leahy's site and send an email to your representative. Then send an email to your friends asking them to do the same.

http://ga3.org/campaign/fisa?rk=M73t-i1qwEW2W

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 02/15/2008
- FiddleDD2 I'm a Fan of FiddleDD2 10 fans permalink

I hope they do nothing until the next Congress post 2008 elections is seated. Let's go with the existing FISA law which was good enough for Ronnie Reagan to "win the Cold War" as the cons believe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 02/15/2008
- neocon43 I'm a Fan of neocon43 29 fans permalink

Different kind of war doam ass!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 02/15/2008

Yes, America must keep eavesdropping! And torturing! And lying! And giving tax cuts to the rich! And stealing from the poor! And giving subsidies to oil companies! And supporting dictators like Musharraf! And doing business with the Bin Ladens! And the Saudi royal family! And toppling foreign governments! And invading sovereign nations! And fueling racial tensions! And building wall! And hating immigrants! And gays! And Muslims! And Communists! And the Chinese! And each other! And glamorizing guns! Why change now! Fuck change!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 02/15/2008

...damn, to know we've put up with over 7 years of this shit

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 02/15/2008
- CFSM I'm a Fan of CFSM permalink

I wonder if it is that people who have fought for the country better understand what it is that needs to be defended.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 02/15/2008
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