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Sam Stein

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huffpolitics, Clinton and Wisconsin, clinton attacks Obama, Clinton on healthcare, negative ads, Obama and NAFTA, Obama and Wisconsin, Obama Attacks Clinton, Obama Nafta mailer, Wisconsin and debates, Wisconsin and dirty politics, wisconsin and presidential campain

Campaign Gets Negative And Nasty In Wisconsin

February 15, 2008 05:37 PM


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It is getting a bit nasty in Wisconsin. As both candidates prep for Tuesday's upcoming primary, Sen. Hillary Clinton has launched another critical television ad attacking Sen. Barack Obama for an ad of his own and challenging him to more debates.

It's a classic campaign maneuver often reserved (as in this case) for the candidate who is trailing in the polls. But Clinton's charge has been effective enough for the Obama camp to feel the need to hit back.

On a late Friday afternoon conference call, Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle reminded reporters that, far from shying away from voters, Obama was actually campaigning in the state while Clinton was not.

"Now to have Senator Clinton launch these false and negative ads, somehow criticizing him for not being straight about people in Wisconsin, is more of the politics he is trying to do away with. The fact is Sen. Clinton has not been in Wisconsin yet," said Doyle, an Obama supporter. "The hypocrisy of somehow claiming that sending a husband and a daughter is somehow equal to having the candidate himself or herself come. Sen. Obama came to Wisconsin on the very first night of our week long primary."

Obama himself responded to he ad earlier in the day, suggesting that the usefulness of debates in general has diminished:

"The debate exercise is one that I think has become fairly predictable. I could make the arguments on behalf of Senator Clinton that she would make against me in a debate. We all know them. You guys could too. And I'm sure the same applies to the other side. On the other hand, when we have a chance to talk to voters directly, when we have a chance to give them a sense of where we want to take the country and that's my priority in these closing weeks."

The back and forth between the two camps over whether or not to debate underscores just how critical every remaining state on the primary calendar has become. With Obama expanding on his pledge delegate lead following victories in this past Tuesday's Potomac primary, and as more super-delegates have taken their support to his campaign, Clinton has sought to fight him for every remaining inch of political real estate. The campaign, this week, announced a new round of office openings in all upcoming primary states, including Puerto Rico.

In addition to Wisconsin, Texas and Ohio are the two major upcoming battlegrounds. And in the Lone Star state on Friday, former President Bill Clinton reemerged as an attack-dog, saying that while Obama "excites" voters, his health care plan "would in fact deny us universal health-care coverage." The Obama campaign responded by calling the line a "false accusation", the kind "that failed his wife's campaign in South Carolina."

Meanwhile, in Ohio, the Obama camp was doing some attacking of its own, taking Clinton to task with a controversial mailer that claimed she previously supported the North America Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). That campaign literature has since been called into question for after a line it used from a Newsday article - suggesting Clinton believes NAFTA was a "boon" for the economy -- was acknowledged by the paper to be an "unclear" and misleading description of her position. Moreover, several former Clinton officials and biographers have since described her as a quiet skeptic of the legislation.

Ohio Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher, a Clinton supporter, lamented on Friday "that Obama chose to introduce himself to state voters in such a way. Sloan said the mailer 'really reached over the bounds,' and was just short of 'mail fraud.'" But the Obama camp stuck by the piece.

"Sen. Clinton talks so much about wanting to debate. I can see why, I think she's having a vigorous debate with herself on NAFTA," the campaign's press secretary Bill Burton told reporters. "It is a fact that Hillary Clinton supported NAFTA, touted NAFTA and is now trying to run away from that for her own reason."

Voters in Wisconsin (and Hawaii) will set the process back in motion on Tuesday when they hit the polls. Victories there would make ten states in a row for Obama and could, observers note, portend a close race in Ohio.

"Wisconsin is a little bit of a tell for Ohio," Ken Goldstein, a professor of political science at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, told the Wall Street Journal. "Either the Clinton campaign has done a brilliant job of managing expectations, or they're missing an opportunity here and they're in real trouble."

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If the people of my native state of Wisconsin are smart, and I think many of them are, they will forget all about the democratic party circus acts and vote for the only candidate still running who would actually make a good president: http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080215/SPJ0101/802150605
Ron Paul!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 02/17/2008

The campaign gets negative and nasty...by which you mean Hilary gets negative and nasty and Obama must " git down in the muck and rassel with the hogs".
SHE WILL FIGHT ALL THE WAY TO THE CONVENTION (so she says today.......)

This reminds me of a joke:
What is the difference between a pitbull and Hilary Clinton???
Answer: Eventually the pitbull lets go......

But itīs only funny when you want an American president who solves problems, foreign and domestic, using only his "lizard brain" and not the higher faculties of analysis, and judgement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 02/17/2008
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I guess this is the "fun part" huh? Just remember, "If nothing changes, then nothing changes" Once again, just more of the same from the People who brought you the Bimbo Patrol live and in color!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 02/16/2008

oh my god give me a BREAK! A little tiny jab about debates is nasty and negative? Jesus we are going to get KILLED in November if Obama is the nominee(shiver shiver) leave it to the liberals to lose a sure thing! LOL! And she is NOT trailing in the polls she is up about 10 points in all of the biggest states.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 02/16/2008

CLINTON CREATED NAFTA FIASCO AND MAKE CHINA BE COMING POWER AND HIS WIFE WANT SUPER NAFTA TO MORE KILL AMERICAN JOBS,THEY BOTH JUST CHINA AND COORPORATION WHORE,WE DONT NEED ANOTHER CROOK IN WH

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 AM on 02/17/2008

BILLARY NOT SLEF RESPECT SHE THE QUEEN OF EARMARK IN 1 YEARS BRING 400 MILLONS TO NY TO BUYING VOTE EVEN SHE ALWAYS AGAIN IT AT LEAS MC CAIN HAVE SOME LEVEL, SHE THE BIGGEST LIER AND CROOK

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 02/17/2008

OBAMA DUMB FOLLOWER LIKE LIE, HE SAY WORD FROM OTHER MOUTH LIKE CAR SELLER. HILLARY GOOD FOR PRESIDENT BUT HAS FIGHT LIE FROM OBAMA THAT FRIEND TELL HIM SAY. HE NO GOOD FOR PRESIDENT, BUT IS ALL SUIT NO HAT.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 02/19/2008

The New York Times has an interesting article about the unofficial tallies understated Obama vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/nyregion/16vote.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 02/16/2008
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Clinton camp I challenge you to tell me how Hillary is going to take one more independent voter in the general than McCrazy? McCrazy has pretty much gotten the Republican nomination by taking independent voters, not the hate machine base who are voting against him. Obama has been taking independents who vote at a 2 to 1 ratio in every state versus Clinton. If you can prove that Clinton gets more independents to vote for her over McCrazy I will vote for her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 PM on 02/16/2008

idiots this is not 2000....y2k didnt happen and this election is not about independants its about TURNOUT in each party. W won in 04 by turning out the bible thumpers we already are showing up in much greater numbers because the base hates McCain, the fiscals and the Christians, its gping to come down to economy .... I dont tjink Barack can deliver.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 02/16/2008

yep, the Republican base hates McCain. There's only one person they hate worse -- Hillary Clinton.

Factor that into your math and see who's the better Democratic nominee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 PM on 02/16/2008

I WILL VOTE MC CAIN THAN BILLARY STAY AWAY FROM DAMN CLINTON BUSH WHAT NEXT CHEALSE FOR PREZ? CAN MY DOG RUN FOR PREZ AS LONG NAME CLINTON?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 02/17/2008

I am tired of all this stuff on HuffPo by Cintonistas trying to smear Obama over Rezko. The Chicago papers have been on this for years and Obama has agreed to give back all contributions related to Rezko. At least we know who was in bed with Obama. Do we have this info on the Clintons?

No tax returns disclosed (not until the nomination process is over...thanks!) and no information on the donor list and amounts to the Clinton Library (where there are no rules...though Hillary wants to claim she was an integral part of the decision-making team in Bill's White House).

You just can't have it both ways and smear Obama over a candidate that gives full disclosure and your candidate is out there and claims to be "fully vetted" when she is far from it. I think the problem for you Clinton fans is that Obama supporters are NOT drinking the Kool-aid. Our eyes are wide open. I would love to think about supporting Hillary, but can not until she puts herself to a higher ethical standard.

But let's have a level playing field and full disclosure of these ethical issues that will be MAJOR ISSUES in the general election. Stop with these petty Rezko issues on Obama when it seems that the disclosure issues for Clinton are box car in nature.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 02/16/2008

SELF-SERVING
Clinton's camp immediately dismissed Gelber's idea. No wonder: It gives Obama a chance to win a state she already won, and independents typically favor Obama.
''I think that the people of Michigan and Florida spoke in a very convincing way, that they want their voices and their votes to be heard,'' Clinton said.
But her demand -- which looks increasingly self-serving now that Obama leads in delegates -- may not get traction.
For Obama, whose campaign has dismissed the state's delegate-less vote as meaningless, the do-over allows him to get in the good graces of Florida Democrats. It also would let him do what he does best: talk to voters. The major candidates ceased campaigning in Florida months ago after the party punished Florida.
''I think even my 6-year-old would understand it would not be fair for Sen. Clinton to be awarded delegates when there was no campaign and, in one of the states at least, my name didn't appear on the ballot,'' Obama told reporters.
And for Democrats looking ahead to November, when independent voters will undoubtedly play a decisive role, Gelber's idea of including independents is a potentially ingenious party-building tool. The state party would engage these swing voters months before the general election campaign gets under way

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 02/16/2008

What if they held an election and more than 1.7 million Florida Democrats came? That is the quandary facing Democrats, as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama slog it out, state to state, with neither in reach of the 2,025 delegates needed to claim the nomination.
Florida Democrats could stage another election that would count toward tie-breaking delegates, but a caucus with limited voting sites would draw a fraction of the record-setting Jan. 29 turnout.
Or the deadlock could be broken by 796 so-called ''superdelegates'' at the convention, but allowing party bosses to subvert the will of the people -- there's that 1.7 million again -- threatens to be a public-relations disaster.
Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber of Miami Beach is pitching an alternative: a mail-in vote, framed as a runoff between Clinton and Obama, allowing Democrats and independents to participate.
Only Democrats were allowed to cast ballots in the primary, which did not count toward delegates because the early date broke national party rules. Mailing ballots to every registered Democrat and independent would overcome the elitist tinge of a party caucus or superdelegate surge.
SELF-SERVING

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 02/16/2008

flip flop my posts please.
than k you

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 02/16/2008

Jacee,

did it ever occur to you that your rant

"Time to remember that the Clintons are selfish to the core, self centered, destructive, manipulative. Time to remember the ugliness, the sniping, the slime, the lies, the division-its all back. They are in it for themselves-only"

exactly describes yourself with your own words? Not a SINGLE fact, just, as you pointed out, "the ugliness, the sniping, the slime, the lies etc.

Makes me throw up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 02/16/2008

Thank you. We need to keep pointing out that the negative comments toward the Clintons being used by Obama supporters only alienates the non-Obama supporters, who they may end up needing this November and who may end up staying home or voting for McCain if Obama is the nominee. If Obama is so great, why not just talk about that greatness instead of persistently attacking Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 02/16/2008

Why would anyone think that Obama isn't loved by Black and White American's who see there child standing in front of crowds like i haven't seen in a long time[1968 BOBBY K RALLIES] We all know our country has a sickness[THE BLACK MAN OF AMERICA] that has to be cured.Obama 08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 02/16/2008
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so leave this site, it is overrun by overzealous fans who are focusing frustration and anger in the wrong direction. Go to Obama's own site and read his positions and his responses to attacks on him by negative ads being run in Wisconsin. If you go to the site for Obama supporters you will find none of this nastiness... you will find that the people truly interested in helping this man get elected are living his message, one of bringing people together and getting out his plan for moving this country forward

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 02/16/2008

Jacee, You are so chilish in your hatred of "the Clintons." I've read your reasoning and it is stuff straight out of the Republican lie book. All of this stuff you claim about "the Clintons" is just hate talk. Go on Limbaugh if you want to talk with such inaccuracy!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 02/16/2008

Hillary and Bill tempt the needy and huddled masses with financial carrots!

But would find a thousand excuses and people to blame for not delivering when in office!

Full of half promises and fictitious solutions!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 02/16/2008
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What amazes me the most is that Hillary is supposed to have this huge base of voters that don't even come out to vote for her. She inspires the kind of people that want government to do everything for them and they all want handouts. To bad they all wanted the election handed to her as well when she was the preemptive nominee so they didn't even need to vote. Obama supporters are passionate for his nomination and come out to vote for him. So this is supposed make us some kind of cult following. But Hillary supporters do not get the point. The point is Obama supporters will support him even AFTER he gets elected if we are so lucky. Hillary thinks she and her government can go it alone the same way Bush did. Obama knows he will need the efforts of the American people to be successful. This is not rocket science, it's pure cold logic, the many can get more done than just a select few for this country. That's what Obama will bring to the white house.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 02/16/2008

If we didn't vote for her, you wouldn't be writing this comment. It's because we vote for her that you're so inconvenienced. And we think you're a bit "cultish", truthfully, because he is barely qualified to be a senator, nevermind a president. Obama will need a lot of support if he's going to get anything done in the white house. Why your team seems to think not knowing the ropes and having no networking system in place is a plus, is beyond me. Obama said he wants to overhaul the way politics are done in Washington. That's a big job. While he's making all these new friends with that "movement", who exactly is going to be going after all those boring policy issues - like universal health care, the economy, the housing crisis - the people he's trying to strip of power? I lack confidence in Obama's game plan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 02/16/2008
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So Clinton being first lady qualified her for the Senate? Face it she would never had been voted for the Senate if her name was not Clinton.

Obama was elected to the Illinois legislature before he was elect to the Senate. Clinton never was elected to anything but an all womans school college president before the Senate.

Try smearing again you are way off on this one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 02/16/2008
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Like most Clinton supporters you are intellectually lazy and need to be spoon fed information. Obama's economic plans are well though out and attack not only the diminishing middle class in this country but our dependence on foreign oil and collapsing infrastructure as well. He not only has a plan to help homeowners but has the courage to take predatory lenders and credit card companies on as well. Not to mention that he wants to reverse bad bankruptcy law legislation.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/Cmzm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 02/16/2008
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Obama supporters are more than what you're giving them credit for. Let me introduce you to just one, his name is Derrick....watch it to the end if you really care about this issue..http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/video-interviewer-picks-the-wrong-obama-supporter-to-try-to-railroad/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 02/16/2008

Barely qualified to be a Senator? The qualification requirements for being a Senator are: "No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen." He seems to meet all of those by a wide stretch.

There's one they didn't spell out and which wasn't actually a requirement when the constitution was written. Be able to win an election. Last time I checked he had that one too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 PM on 02/16/2008

The Clitnon's irresponsible and selfish behavior in the 90s was good for THEM and bad, very bad for the Democratic Party, the Nation and the World.

Irresponsible and selfish, sums up the 90s-with Bill in the lead and Hillary somewhere in the shadows.

They managed to

loose the Congress,

shame the Democratic Party into the political desert for 2 decades,

lost the Supreme Court,

plunged the nation into a sordid and disgusting impeachment,

fucked up any chance Gore would become president,

ensured Bush's 8 years.

Bill and Hillary will do the same thing again. They do not want the Democratic Party or any other Democratic hopeful in control, they only want themselves to be in control-or a republican. They will continue their ceaseless, selfish, petty attacks on Obama-until good people rise up and say NO. No more slime and humiliation. We are better than that, we need better than that to move forward.

Clinton supporters need to get some self respect. They need to remember what the Clintons really brought to our nation in the 90s. The need to remember the humiliation, the shame, the embarrassment that we all felt that our president couldn't control himself, couldn't stop lying, wouldn't stop dragging all of us through the mud.

Bad, selfish, manipulative and destructive behavior that comes from those without any self control is dangerous for our party and the nation.

Enough of this crap from the Clintons.

Time to move on to a candidate that brings pride, confidence, self control, adult behavior, solutions and a way to the 21st century.

Obama 2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 PM on 02/16/2008

Thank you for voicing so well what I've been feeling. Put every other thing aside and that's not easy another Clinton in the White House would cause a flood of salivation among the right wingnuts who will start the mania all over again. I don't for one minute believe they won't try with Obama. I do, however, believe that the ammunition the Clintons have given their enemies as well as former friends will bring more scandal, gossip and nothing new to the process. This is our chance to be part of more than history. Sometimes we need to put aside our loyalties and fantasies and look at what is staring us in the eyes. This is the time for Barack & Michelle Obama to become the President and first lady. Call it fate or whatever but I've never felt anything so deeply. I've not seen a candidate whose appeal breaks down every barrier and gives so much hope (it's good to hope) since Robert Kennedy. So you see, I'm much more a part of tthe Clintons generation and I know our time has passed. I hope they figure it out and help rather than fight in the ugly way they are known to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 02/16/2008

I do not care so much what the wacko right wingers will do or won't do. I know that Obama was the morality and integrity to handle them.

I am more concerned with what we, democrats, will do and who we will accept to represent us in the world.

That can not be the Clintons. They have a history that is full of personal and professional mistakes. They are running a current campaign that demonstrates that they have not learned anything from their history. Experience is meaningless unless you learn something from it. I voted twice for Bill and then had to be constantly humiliated by his and his wifes immature and selfish behavior. It destroyed Gore and it destroyed the Dem Party and it lead to Bush. Plain and simple.

I reject the Clintons. I have more self respect than that.

Obama 2008

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 02/16/2008
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FISA ALERT!

None of you are more amazed than I that perhaps, just perhaps, the House at least has found a spine. They seem to have flipped off King George and he may have blinked. The one great pleasure that makes this moment special is that patheticjeff seems to have been actually banned.

Maintain in your mind the fact that Telecom immunity is utterly unacceptable. The only purpose of this immunity is to prevent discovery that would expose the criminality of Bush and Cheney.

But there are elements of PAA (enacted last Aug) that allow your "government" to tap your communications without a warrant. It is in no way necessary for you to trade e-mails with an Arab to get caught up in this. Not even. I will tell you this: Karl Rove knew every lunch reservation that John Kerry made in "04.

We have a week-long opportunity to make a difference. Many have asked you to take action. I have asked you to take action. Please take action. Call, write, fax congressmen. Screw the Senate. And Diane Feinstein has a reckoning coming.

In order of the sites that I know of and respect (and do not bust my balls if you have another list, I truly don"t care, just post the damned thing), I would ask you to look at:

Glenn Greenwald at Salon

ACLU

Daily Kos

Firedoglake.

Huffpo sucks on this topic.

Please. Take action.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 02/16/2008

Kathleen Reardon,

The bi-weekly Obama bashing hillary harangue is getting b-b-b-b-boring. Your point of view has not changed in a year and you have not changed anybody else's point of view.

Get a life.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 02/16/2008

It seems to me that how campaigns are being managed and funded are indicators of how each candidate would actually perform in office if elected.

Since Clinton can't hire the right people to run her campaign and manage spending she won't appoint the right people if she is elected.

Obama wants to nail her on NAFTA but recently he voted, as she did, to extend it into Peru.

AFL-CIO says they are anti-NAFTA but they did not endorse the only Democratic candidate who was ready to eliminate it - Dennis Kucinich.

Clinton and Edwards were caught discussing the need to prevent candidates other than themselves and Obama from the debates. Obama should play that video as a response to her accusation that he doesn't want to debate.

Clinton ensures she will have a friendly audience when she speaks by removing people she thinks will oppose her or ask tough questions.
Clinton was caught planting audience questions but they all do it.

The only Democrat who is a true leader and actually stood for change was Dennis Kucinich and he was pushed out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 02/16/2008
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