Financial Firms, Goldman Sachs, market crash, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, recession, Recession Fears, S&P 500, Stock Market, wachovia
Financial Firms, Goldman Sachs, market crash, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, recession, Recession Fears, S&P 500, Stock Market, wachovia

Will You Cash Out Before The Market Crashes?

Motley Fool   |  Tim Hanson   |   February 15, 2008 05:09 PM


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Six -- count 'em, six -- major financial firms now declare that the United States is in recession. That list includes heavyweights such as Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, and Morgan Stanley.

Several other financial institutions, while not yet using the "r" word, are nonetheless pessimistic. The Wall Street Journal quoted a Wachovia report that said, "There is no question that the economic news has taken an unusual and disturbing turn for the worse."

Of course, the stock market has done nothing to contradict this outlook. The S&P 500 is already down nearly 8% year to date.

If the worst is yet to come, you'd be daft not to sell ... right?

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- cartach See Profile I'm a Fan of cartach permalink

Who cares? If you're a tried and true bible punching born againer you're just waiting with your tongue hanging out for the Rapture. That's why with such a base of voters and being similarly inclined,the Bush Administration has a tendency to not get serious and just let things go. I would'nt have believed mature,intelligent people could ever think this way until I saw a documentary a few years ago about the evangelical religious right and their fanatical beliefs and thinking. These events are all foretold and will happen despite what you try to do about them,so why bother? That's the scary part.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 02/18/2008
- loki See Profile I'm a Fan of loki permalink

If you really sit back and think about this problem, it mostly has to do with credit problems. And these all started to happen not long after our wonderful representatives in Washington performed on of their most destructive corporate biddings since Nafta, and passed the bankruptcy reform bill. Because this bill gives borrowers no way out no matter what the situation is, loans were forcefully and deceptively pushed on middle class and poor people all over the country. Granted, buyer beware should be at the forefront of everyones mind when considering anything like a loan, we know that many Americans are the sharpest tool in the shed. ( just consider the people they vote for ) SO you have a whole bunch of not particularly smart people, with some very unethical and greedy people, pushing the dream deal to them knowing the borrowers dont have much of a chance of walking from a loan no matter how crooked or deceptive they were when pushing the loan. From the low life Loan Officer and their encouraging brokers, to the largest corporations who welcomed these deals and the investment firms who knowingly pushed these crooked and unstable mortgage deals to the world market.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 AM on 02/17/2008
- loki See Profile I'm a Fan of loki permalink

I can only speak from past experience in similar events , like the .com bust, but if your a Merrill Lynch client it wont matter how much you beg and plead with them to move your money to a safer place or pull it out of stocks altogether.
They will ignore you, do whatever they want to, collect fees and charges on all your losses, and in the end , they will say it was your fault because you didnt tell them exactly where to move the money to. I learned a very very expensive lesson back then. Financial advisor's are not there to advise you in what is best for you. In fact, they could care less about you. It is your money they want, and being as you hired them, you have showed them you dont know that much about how the market works, so you are very easy to manipulate, and basically, they rob you blind. They know you would not hire an adviser if you knew how to do your own investing. And they use that fact to make themselves wealthy on your losses.
Since then I decided to learn at least enough so I am not dependent on a back stabbing low life bottom feeding scum of the earth financial adviser or financial investment firm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 AM on 02/17/2008
- SisterAnn See Profile I'm a Fan of SisterAnn permalink

It is almost funny. First a dishonest rating company called Moodys rated the subprime AAA for Golmand Sachs and the other dishonest brokerages. The dishonest brokerage subprime players are dealing with the dishonest insurers who have already declared themselves unable to pay off the sub prime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 AM on 02/17/2008
- loki See Profile I'm a Fan of loki permalink

Try to look at it this way. Rating companies and investment firms, are about as honest and accurate as political polling firms.
They all have an agenda and they dont care how they reach those goals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 AM on 02/17/2008
- mmckinl See Profile I'm a Fan of mmckinl permalink

Well, we have a prediction, and it doesn't look good.

According to LEAP/E2020, the end of the third trimester will mark a new inflection point in the development of the systemic global crisis. By this time, the cumulative impact of the different strands of the crisis (see table below) will reach maximum strength and affect the heart of the systems involved in a decisive manner, led by the United States as the epicenter of the crisis.

In the US, this new inflection point will translate into the collapse of the real economy, the final socio-economic stage of the bursting of the series of the housing and financial bubbles (1) and the continuation of the fall in the value of the Dollar. The collapse of the real US economy represents simply the almost complete halt of the American economic machinery: private and public bankruptcies in great number, wide ranging closures of enterprises and public services (2),...

table:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/R7c0vR4aALI/AAAAAAAAAKs/FyuqGIyJwbE/s1600-h/GEAB1.2.jpg

Well at least they give us until September ... maybe ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 02/16/2008
- loki See Profile I'm a Fan of loki permalink

Im curious just what all these uber rich greedy self centered uncaring aholes who are destroying America and the economy are going to do when the majority of Americans have no home, no job, no income, and dont care if they live or die?? Are they just going to move to another country and ruin that one? I wouldnt doubt it, but I still cant understand the philosophy behind it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 AM on 02/17/2008
- FreedomCorpse See Profile I'm a Fan of FreedomCorpse permalink

who are the chinese going to sell the junk they keep sending to amerika when we don't buy nearly as much...buh bye china's economy too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 02/18/2008
- almoguy See Profile I'm a Fan of almoguy permalink

Yes, that new country is called Dubai. The philosophy is exactly the same as "monopoly"...I sure as shit hope I hit free parking!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 02/17/2008
- BC33 See Profile I'm a Fan of BC33 permalink

Gated Communities...protected by Blackwater

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 02/17/2008
- SisterAnn See Profile I'm a Fan of SisterAnn permalink

Never has there been so much danger to our finances. You buy bonds and you are probably buying some cdo/cbo subprime bonds rated AAA deceptively by Moodys. They are supposed to be insured, but the insurers spent the premiums and now they are almost broke. They can't take care of all of the sub prime loans.

The money market has subprime AAA bonds rated by Moodys and some cdos/cbos, too. It looks like they have put some in every place, so we could all bear the pain. The republican conservatives only like to share the pain and the costs, but not the profits.

The money markets in the 401ks are not insured, but we have been told that the brokerage won't touch our principal. Each dollar will stay worth a dollar. The interest rates won't beat inflation much longer.

We can put our money in international funds, but the sub prime has been exported over there, too. Maybe their insurers kept enough to pay off subprime, though. Who knows?

We can buy large cap US funds because they sell lots of exports overseas, but the overseas companies aren't buying as much because we aren't importing as much.

Has it hit you yet? Failed policies have made it almost impossible to do anything financially safely. The republicans have done it their way. They had the house, the senate and the presidency until last November. The Democrats have pretty much given in to anything they wanted. Their policies have
FAILED. They have fallen on their own swords.

Except they haven't really failed themselves, they got out at the peak and they have made a fortune getting us in this mess.

When Paulson struts in front of the Senate Finance Committee, why don't they ask him about the billion he made last year, off of sub prime loans when he worked at Goldman Saks? Instead they listen to him with respect.

We need some long perk walks for the sub prime bandits. They need to pay for their mistakes that enriched them and hurt the rest of us.



    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 02/16/2008
- HatingTheGame See Profile I'm a Fan of HatingTheGame permalink

"We need some long perk walks..."

That would be "perp" walk -- as in perpetrator. As you mentioned in your post, they've already had their "perk" walks (a la $100b Paulson).

Nice post, otherwise. Right on the money, or what's left of it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 02/17/2008
- avraamjack See Profile I'm a Fan of avraamjack permalink

.
Cashing out is for pussies.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 02/16/2008
- WIpatriot See Profile I'm a Fan of WIpatriot permalink

Real men cash out before the thought becomes mainstream.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 PM on 02/16/2008
- almoguy See Profile I'm a Fan of almoguy permalink

Real men/women buy tractors...at least you can dig in the dirt and have some fun!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 AM on 02/17/2008
- blastocyst See Profile I'm a Fan of blastocyst permalink

The Author asks; Will You Cash Out Before The Market Crashes?

Not unless you pull out by 9:35 AM on Monday.
This is going all of the way down.
Then what'll you have anyway? Still fluctuating Dollars which can drop in value at anyone's whim. Tell me what I should do, then I'll filter it through what I've already planned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 02/16/2008
- mmckinl See Profile I'm a Fan of mmckinl permalink

Actually the article, if you read it all, says that all recessions are temporary and that in a couple of years they will be completely recovered.

What it doesn't say is that between 1966 and 1981 the DOW went nowhere. Motley Fool has had a good run but they are wrong this time around.

At no time in history has an economy been so indebted, leveraged and budget and trade gap negative. There is no happy ending in sight for the next decade and if peak oil hits, like I think it will, we will never fully recover...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:37 PM on 02/16/2008
- Pippilangstrumpf See Profile I'm a Fan of Pippilangstrumpf permalink

What do you think would happen if everyone, for the next 8 months stopped reading the newspapers and listening to broadcasts and just spent that time putting their noses to the grindstone and not worrying about the sky falling?
I'm no expert in this area, but from what I've gleaned the housing crisis WILL end, flow of credit WILL return to normal and the slow economy WILL keep inflation in check. Earnings will take a hit for a while, but profits WILL return. I guess that sounds simple, but I prefer trying to simplify my life and I've also learned not to worry about things that I have no control over. We have to just weather the storm. We've endured 8 years of Bush...we can endure anything!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 02/16/2008
- MysticInd See Profile I'm a Fan of MysticInd permalink

Go figuratively, Pippilangstrumpf...The sky spy satellite will be falling... at least everyone should look up ocassionally.

Blessings.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 AM on 02/18/2008
- WIpatriot See Profile I'm a Fan of WIpatriot permalink

You left out that you WILL die and the earth WILL endure humanity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 02/16/2008
- Pippilangstrumpf See Profile I'm a Fan of Pippilangstrumpf permalink

Of course we're all going to die at some point. But why spend life pissing and moaning? I myself have been through some pretty rough times and I've come through. We may not have a choice in what happens to us, but we certainly have a choice in how we react to what happens to us. If I want to see marshmallow clouds and sing in perfect harmony with the world holding a coke then so be it. Rather that than going around with crying Woe Is Me and bumming out everyone who comes in contact with me. There are things that we can ALL do...we can all start with our own homes and start living the right life. Stop blaming and start living a good, productive life. Take responsibility. Get involved, buy local, buy American...not to sound like Pollyanna, but you know what I'm saying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 02/17/2008
- blastocyst See Profile I'm a Fan of blastocyst permalink

We've gotten beyond Newspapers. We now have at our disposal the 'InterWeb'. The herd can be turned much more swiftly this way.
E-Trade. Yeah, now in tasty China-flavor too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 02/16/2008
- GenXer See Profile I'm a Fan of GenXer permalink

And flowers will bloom, couds will turn into cotton candy and we will all by eachother a Coke and sing in perfect harmony.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 02/16/2008
- Pippilangstrumpf See Profile I'm a Fan of Pippilangstrumpf permalink

When this is all over, and it WILL be over, I will be the first one to buy you a coke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 02/16/2008
- mmckinl See Profile I'm a Fan of mmckinl permalink

We've endured 8 years of Bush...we can endure anything!!!!

----------------

Bush has left us a legacy of debt and destruction that might cripple us for decades.

If only Bush's departure meant things would return to normal, it won't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 02/16/2008
- ElkoJohn See Profile I'm a Fan of ElkoJohn permalink

`
more "buy & hold" crap.
in Aug.2000, the S&P-500 peaked at 1517.
in Sep.2002, the S&P-500 bottomed at 815.
a decline of 22%.
in May.2007, the S&P-500 reached 1530.
so for almost 7-years, if you held Vanguard's Index 500 fund,
you didn't make any money.
and if you had to sell during the seven years
to pay for college or buy a used toyota,
you lost money.
all the brokers tell you "buy & hold" bc they are
lazy, incompetent or both.
"buy & hold" is a suckers game.
YOU CAN MAKE MONEY DURING A RECESSION.
fire your broker, switch to a non-Load firm
and follow the Morningstar site ETFs.
you will see that buys like:
DBA, up 39% since 9-Oct.07
SLV, up 26% since 9-Oct.07
DBC, up 23% since 9-Oct.07
GLD, up 22% since 9-Oct.07
MYY, up 14% since 9-Oct.07
and for the conservative investor:
TIP, up 6.3% since 9-Oct.07
TLT, up 4.3% since 9-Oct.07
.... WILL MAKE YOU MONEY ....
then when the recovery comes,
play the ETFs that begin to take off during the good times.
.... BULLYA, & HAPPY TRADING ....
.



    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 02/16/2008
- SisterAnn See Profile I'm a Fan of SisterAnn permalink

I bought PRPFX and BEARX, both are supposed to do well during a bear market. I kept some large cap and midcap. Now they balance each other. If the first two go up, the other two go down and visa versa. You can't lose this way, but then you can't win either:-)
I like the currency etfs. FXA, FXE, etc. They are world bonds and pay interest plus, if the dollar goes down, you gain that way too. It is a little scary, because I don't know what I am doing. I like them because they don't back them with any bonds which could be sub prime. (?) I don't know why they call them world bonds, there are no bonds in it. I assume my money is the 'bond'?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 02/16/2008
- Dendroica See Profile I'm a Fan of Dendroica permalink

But at the same time, if you invested in 1992, you've made an absolute fortune.

And there is no reason why future gains will not be as positive as in those halcyon days.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 02/16/2008
- blastocyst See Profile I'm a Fan of blastocyst permalink

Solid if you are Euro-centric. Even that'll be variable as the dominoes begin to fall.
Hey, there's always Real Estate 'Denny'.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:29 PM on 02/16/2008
- olephart See Profile I'm a Fan of olephart permalink

Just a note. Those in "cash" need to keep in mind that the money market fund that they've parked their money in may not be FDIC insured. Though their charter may dictate only AAA short term investments we all know that means nothing. Money market funds try to maintain their shares at $1.00 but this is NOT guaranteed. Those funds that ONLY invest in very short term Government or Agency Notes at least have the power of the presses behind them. You will be able to get out what you put in, whether it has any value is another issue. Likewise with FDIC insured accounts. If you haven"t checked what your fund is allowed to invest in do so, do it now. Even funds that exclusively invest in Treasury or Agency Notes may lose some value if interest rates rise. The longer the maturity, the greater the risk of loss. Think return OF capital rather than return ON capital. Just because it"s not in stocks doesn"t mean it"s without risk.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 02/16/2008
- biwee See Profile I'm a Fan of biwee permalink

Well, if one has the bulk of their retirement savings in the equity markets, and are over 60 and planning to retire at 65, better prepare for a rough ride. With interest rates dropping, cash may mean losing a little due to taxes and inflation......but, better to lose a little than a lot. Sure, the stock market will recover, and go higher, but how long will it take to get you even again, let alone ahead?? In your lifetime??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 AM on 02/16/2008
- rh654 See Profile I'm a Fan of rh654 permalink

Anyone who is 60, plans on retiring at 65 and has the bulk of their savings in equities is already breaking on of the first rules of investing of diversification with respect to time horizon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 02/16/2008
- Kantinflas See Profile I'm a Fan of Kantinflas permalink

For now, I'm short TLT, SPY, XLF, and IYR and long DBC. If the credit crunch evolves into a deflationary depresssion, I'm gonna cash out, then go long the 2nd Amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 02/15/2008
- WIpatriot See Profile I'm a Fan of WIpatriot permalink

Stock up on ammo before the price doubles again.