egypt militias, egypt religion, egyptian weddings, Islamic extremists, islamic radicals, War on Terror, warwire
egypt militias, egypt religion, egyptian weddings, Islamic extremists, islamic radicals, War on Terror, warwire

Stifled In Marriage, Egypt's Young Turn To Islamic Fervor

NY Times   |  MICHAEL SLACKMAN   |   February 17, 2008 02:46 PM


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The concrete steps leading from Ahmed Muhammad Sayyid's first-floor apartment sag in the middle, worn down over time, like Mr. Sayyid himself. Once, Mr. Sayyid had a decent job and a chance to marry. But his fiancée's family canceled the engagement because after two years, he could not raise enough money to buy an apartment and furniture.

Mr. Sayyid spun into depression and lost nearly 40 pounds. For months, he sat at home and focused on one thing: reading the Koran. Now, at 28, with a diploma in tourism, he is living with his mother and working as a driver for less than $100 a month. With each of life's disappointments and indignities, Mr. Sayyid has drawn religion closer.

Here in Egypt and across the Middle East, many young people are being forced to put off marriage, the gateway to independence, sexual activity and societal respect. Stymied by the government's failure to provide adequate schooling and thwarted by an economy without jobs to match their abilities or aspirations, they are stuck in limbo between youth and adulthood.

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- Katbird I'm a Fan of Katbird 2 fans permalink

Would an editor PLEASE change the title of this post? The article is not about being stifled in marriage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 02/17/2008
- yappnmutt I'm a Fan of yappnmutt 78 fans permalink

women have incredible power over the emotional welfare of men. they should be rounded up onto breeding farms in luxurious locations and reduced to their basic breeding function. poor guy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 02/17/2008

The Christian fundamentalists in this country should realize how much alike they are with the Islamics of Egypt. Instead of painting them as "evil doers" they should embrace them kindred spirits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 PM on 02/17/2008
- lboucher I'm a Fan of lboucher 2 fans permalink

Seems like this article portrays everyone as a victim.

Poor job, no job, no spouse, correct fashion, incorrect fashion, etc. Grow up, life does mean you get what you want, if you work hard and stop making excuses and stop acting like the victim, just maybe you will get what you desire.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 PM on 02/17/2008
- Annette I'm a Fan of Annette 15 fans permalink

Lot harder in Egypt than in the US.
In the US we have it easy, free education to take advantage of, Wrong fashion in Egypt gets you killed. You have no right to marry because two people want to get married, their families can sto[ it. It is easy to say pull up your socks from the US where the advantages are there to be taken advange of. Americans do not see how wildly fortunate they are to be born in the US. Try it somewhere where there is little education, few paved roads and where you are succesful if your children do not die of minor illnesses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 02/17/2008

Did you even read this article? Yes, why don't you work for years and end up getting paid $50 a day because your ECONOMY doesn't allow for anything more. Get it? ECONOMY??? You clearly know nothing of real poverty with absolutely no chance of making a living no matter how hard you work. This isn't a matter of "getting what you desire", it is a matter of having no chance at all of getting even the basics in life. Your American version of hard times isn't even close to what these people are dealing with. I lived in Egypt for over a year and you can't imagine the stress on these young people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 02/19/2008

To truly be enlightened about this region, you MUST read a book called "Three Cups of Tea". It's about an American building schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Here's how fundamentalism foments... no education, no opportunity, abject poverty, despair... then to the brightest of the bright, offers of free education (in fundamentalist madrassas) access to goods, wives, etc...

A lesson to be taken both in the Mideast and here at home... You take away opportunity and hope for a future, you are not going to like the results.

Get this book! "Three Cups of Tea" Greg Mortenson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 02/17/2008
- Mariel I'm a Fan of Mariel 10 fans permalink

I love that phrase, "globalism sinks all jobs". Worldwide. Good. Only the elites and the servants left. That's the way they want it? They probably rationalize it, but yes, that's the way they want it.

So people turn to religion. And you'd take that away too? Then what? Total chaos, riots, bloodshed in the street because not even God loves them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 PM on 02/17/2008

The supression of women under veils, the limitations of their freedoms, and the promise of virgins after death is all because these guys can't get laid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 02/17/2008
- Cautious I'm a Fan of Cautious 15 fans permalink
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This appears to be a very ignorant statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 02/17/2008
- Annette I'm a Fan of Annette 15 fans permalink

Possibly, but the dearth of opportunity for the young does cause them to turn to faith in an intensive way which is at once fervent and untouched by the long view and balance which age and experience confers.

If the young bury themself in the extreme of any faith and exclude the world and the pleasures which their god has, in their eyes, created they can then justify any behavior because the other creatures their god has created have lesser value in their eyes than themself and their link to their god. People who do not have the advantage seeing other people as equivelent to themself in their eyes and in their god's eyes are dangerous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 PM on 02/17/2008
- wmbear I'm a Fan of wmbear 24 fans permalink

"The concrete steps leading from Ahmed Muhammad Sayyid's first-floor apartment sag in the middle, worn down over time, like Mr. Sayyid himself. Once, Mr. Sayyid had a decent job and a chance to marry. But his fiancée's family canceled the engagement because after two years, he could not raise enough money to buy an apartment and furniture."

KIND OF REMIND'S ME OF MY FIRST WIFE'S FAMILY...

They didn't want her to marry me because I didn't have a job. How petty!...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 PM on 02/17/2008
- Annette I'm a Fan of Annette 15 fans permalink

Yes, but in Egypt they have the right to cancel the marriage. If the woman marries against her parent's wishes she has "damaged their honor". Americans can, egyptians cannot. They attempt it and it will likely end in bloodshed rather than in dirty looks at Christmas and snide remarks to the wife by her parents.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 PM on 02/17/2008
- XCITIZEN I'm a Fan of XCITIZEN 79 fans permalink
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Note to Egyptian youth - you're feeling trapped in dead-end marriages because of the suffocating influence of fundamentalism, so, like, don't turn around and, like, embrace it, mm-kay???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 02/17/2008
- Danny I'm a Fan of Danny 5 fans permalink

Yeah, right. One more application of propaganda about the muslim youth. Give them education and jobs already (same here for ALL youths in the U.S., too!)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 02/17/2008
- Danny I'm a Fan of Danny 5 fans permalink

Globalization was supposed to lift all boats. Now we know better. It sinks all jobs everywhere except for the already very rich. Some plan for peace ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:17 PM on 02/17/2008
- isis I'm a Fan of isis 20 fans permalink
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Islam is not very science friendly so this in turn will make the economy less innovative and perpetuate the bad times. You can almost see the Dark Ages closing in on them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 02/17/2008
- Cautious I'm a Fan of Cautious 15 fans permalink
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What about the Islamic government of Pakistan, which has made information for the creation of nuclear weapons to be spread to places like North Korea?

Can't we just leave it at "some people are ignorant and choose not to accept science" and "some guys can't get laid" instead of these really ignorant generalizations?

Let's think it through here.

The British colonialize the Middle East in the late 1800s/early 1900's. From 1917 to 1948, they let Jews from all over the world displace the people living in Palestine, and subject the rest of the Middle East to monarchies and/or dictatorships, which leaves the general population disenfranchised.

If Mohammed Atta had been able to get a job as an architect and get married, would be even be having this conversation? This story describes what creates people like him. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying we need to face historical facts like this intelligently, on their own terms.

Just like any other civilization, at its height, the Moslem world had the best mathematicians and scientists in the world.

Fundamentalist Christianity is at least as non-science-friendly as Fundamentalist Islam. So maybe the rest of us need to get our heads out of our asses and face historical facts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 PM on 02/17/2008
- Annette I'm a Fan of Annette 15 fans permalink

Actually Mohammed Atta had both those opportunities. His parents were well off moderately devout muslims who sent his sisters to college and were more than happy to pay for his advanced degrees in Germany. Marriage was available with his mother and father both encouraging it and able and willing to finiace it. Atta was just twisted. Hated women including his sisters, partly because they were more sucessful in college and in life than he was. He also hated his mother and grandmother. Just a twisted guy who the fundies got ahold of and used. His natural dislike of his fellow humans was used and groomed to create a mass murderer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 02/17/2008
- MNmommy I'm a Fan of MNmommy 406 fans permalink
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klizard - I don't know, I've reading stories like this increasingly over the last few years about young Egyptian adults.

It's funny - it perfectly reflects what's happening here in America. The rise in fundamentalism along with the fall in in the economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:18 PM on 02/17/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 644 fans permalink
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just spreadin' the word, mama - doin' the lord's work

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 02/17/2008

A tanking economy is definitely not a cause of increased fundamentalism in Egypt, simply because their economy is not tanking. It is (more or less) thriving. This is an objective fact. There could very well be a rise in fundamentalism in the past few years (there has certainly been a rise in religiosity in general), but I wouldn't take the newspapers' word for it. The NYT has told some real whoppers about the Middle East in the past 6 years (for example, about intelligence related to Iraq's WMD program).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 PM on 02/17/2008

I don't really trust the NYT's reporting on the Muslim world. I lived in Egypt for a while, 6 years ago, and at that time the economy sucked. However, during the past ~5 years, the Egyptian economy has actually been growing pretty fast. So the economy does not explain any increased popularity for the Muslim Brotherhood, or "fundamentalization", if that's even really happening (this is where I don't trust the NYT's reporting). I think what is happening is that, with a growing economy, people are starting to get restless about the repressive, corrupt government that is keeping them down. They will probably take any opposition party over the MB, but the government represses other opposition parties more effectively (or more enthusiastically? the possibility of an MB takeover is their trump card vs the US).

The big turning point for Egyptians' attitudes was the Iraq War. Headscarves exploded in popularity sometime after I left. When I was there, many (most?) women didn't wear them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 02/17/2008

As a US citizen living in Cairo the last 5 years, this article hits home. The people here love their families, have a great sense of humor, are warm and friendly. However, there is no way to get ahead here, inflation is growing day by day, and you can sense the fundamentalism growing rapidly. Under Bush's policies, the Middle East is floundering, the anti-Americanism growing,and it is going to be one gigantic mess before too long.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 02/17/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 644 fans permalink
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texpat, I'm sorry to report from home, there is growing fundamentalism and anti-Americanism and floundering economy here, as well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 02/17/2008

Ah, how are Bush policies limiting their economies? It is socialism coupled with the oppression of half (women!) their population. Why do the economies of Arab countries stink when they have all that money from oil yet Israel's is vibrant without sitting on a drop of it? Capitalism and a focus on education (and not the Koran) by a large percentage of the population.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:15 PM on 02/17/2008
- Danny I'm a Fan of Danny 5 fans permalink

Kingciti--How much does Israel's prosperity owe to US (taxpayers) aid? All of it, all of it. It's a desert country with NO natural resources. Just sayin'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 PM on 02/17/2008
- Annette I'm a Fan of Annette 15 fans permalink

Egypt is not an oil producing company. Most of their power is hydroelectric. Sheesh, look it up. Israel gets huge subsidies from the US and so does Egypt, though less than Israel. Both countries are complex. Israel has the advantage of the massive immigration of educated people, the ability to expropriate the property of others without paying for it and the unquestioning support of the US. Egypt has a huge uneducated population and no more natural resourses than Israel except for the Nile.
Egypt is not socialist, very low corporate taxes, almost no public services. No free education for the children, no social services at all to speak of. Actually Israel is a lot more socialist than Egypt. You know all that free education, socialised medicine, and huge government subsidies for the ultra-orthadox.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 02/17/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 644 fans permalink
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twentysomethings are "stuck in limbo between youth and adulthood" -- oh, I see they really have been "Americanized"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 02/17/2008
- sparkandy I'm a Fan of sparkandy 30 fans permalink
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Amen! And some 30 somethings, too. But at least mine pays rent!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 02/17/2008
- Danny I'm a Fan of Danny 5 fans permalink

spark -- mine skipped rent this past month. For the first time. And feels very bad, because he has (had) drunk the Koolaid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 02/17/2008
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