More Charges Of "Plagiarism," Even Worse Evidence

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First Posted: 02-20-08 11:27 AM   |   Updated: 03-28-08 02:46 AM

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"Plagiarism-gate," or whatever moniker is given to revelations that Sen. Barack Obama borrowed other politician's words, continued on Wednesday, despite evidence that suggests all candidates -- not just the Illinois Democrat -- are guilty of the alleged crime.

Late on Tuesday evening, Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign sent out an article written by The Washington Post's Dana Milbank titled "Claims of Rhetoric-Pilfering Pile Up on Obama." The piece, playing off of an earlier report that Obama had taken lines from his friend and surrogate, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, included new evidence of the senator's "borrowing problem."

There was, however, one problem. Many of the lines Milbank described as "objectionable" were not just used by Obama but by Clinton as well. Take, for instance, this passage from Washington Post article:

[Obama] borrowed anew on Tuesday at an outdoor rally here in San Antonio -- this time from his former foe, John Edwards. Criticizing pharmaceutical companies' ads, Obama joked: "You know those ads where people are running around the fields, you know, they're smiling, you don't know what the drug is for?"

Compare that to this staple of the 2004 Edwards stump speech: "I love the ads. Buy their medicine, take it, and the next day you and your spouse will be skipping through the fields.

Not noted was that in May 2007, Clinton used almost identical language as both Edwards and Obama. Here's the clip from her campaign website:

"...A lot of these so-called 'blockbuster drugs' are no more effective, and sometimes less effective, in treating conditions than old standbys that have been around for a long time, and don't have all the advertising of, you know, people running through fields of wildflowers that convince patients that they need the new drug..."

That's not all. Here's another graph from Milbank's article:

Edwards, accepting the party's vice presidential nomination in 2004, said, "Hard work should be valued in this country, so we're going to reward work, not just wealth." Obama, in turn, has been heard to say, "We shouldn't just be respecting wealth in this country, we should be respecting work."

The same language was used by the Clinton campaign to describe a key element of her economic agenda. We need, her website read, "tax fairness that rewards work, not just wealth."

To be sure, Milbank did note rhetorical similarities between Obama and Edwards that Clinton did not parody. For instance, there is Obama's campaign kickoff speech in February 2007: "I know I haven't spent a lot of time learning the ways of Washington. But I've been there long enough to know that the ways of Washington must change." That is compared to Edwards's 2003 announcement speech: "I haven't spent most of my life in politics, but I've spent enough time in Washington to know how much we need to change Washington."

Moreover, elements of Obama's "borrowing" lend itself to concerns about the senator's overall substance (or, for critics, lack thereof). As David Frum, a speech writer for President Bush, wrote the Huffington Post:

Obama is a candidate all about words - he has zero record of executive leadership, precious little of legislative accomplishment. It's all about the speeches. So if the speeches aren't his own ... what is there to him exactly? The figure in U.S. history he reminds me most of is William Jennings Bryan. What would we think if the Cross of Gold speech had turned out to be "borrowed"?

But, taken as a whole, the evidence seemingly paints a different picture than Obama as a "serial-borrower." Indeed, as other Republican word-smiths note, candidates of all political stripes frequently and liberally take lines from each other.

"When I used to write for Republicans in the late 1990s and up through a few years ago, I wrote language books for them and they all used it," said Frank Luntz, the Republican political strategist and "framing" guru. "And it wasn't what we call plagiarism. It was written for them to use. It was written for them to stay on message... I'm sorry but Hillary Clinton does not deliver her own speeches. People write words for her. Unless you create your own language you have no right to criticize some else, especially if it comes from a friend or ally."

"Plagiarism-gate," or whatever moniker is given to revelations that Sen. Barack Obama borrowed other politician's words, continued on Wednesday, despite evidence that suggests all candidates -- not ju...
"Plagiarism-gate," or whatever moniker is given to revelations that Sen. Barack Obama borrowed other politician's words, continued on Wednesday, despite evidence that suggests all candidates -- not ju...
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- Teritt I'm a Fan of Teritt 9 fans permalink

The problem with this plagiarism discussion is that it's "Much Ado about Nothing"(S­hakespeare­).
But I'd like to pass along this food for thought "Can't we all just get along?" (Rodney King)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 02/22/2008

What, do they think we don't already know this, that we aren't already fully aware that political speeches all borrow from one another? The Washington Post and Clinton waste our time and insult our intelligence with this toxic waste-of-time fluff.

If either of them had spent half as much time on Iraq before we attacked it, and investigated Bush's, Cheney's, Rice's and Powell's words half as much as they do Obama's, we wouldn't be in this damn mess and thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of people would not have had to die.

Where the hell are your priorities?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 AM on 02/22/2008

It would be nice if some of the media morons nattering about plagiarism would look the word up. Maybe they can find somebody's old copy the AP Style Guide. If I say, "Don't ask what your community can do for you; think about what you can do for them," that's derivative (and what, as Shakespeare and Chaucer might say, is not?), but it's NOT PLAGIARISM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 02/21/2008

Who gives a sh*t!!!! My God -- don't you guys have more to do than compare how close some words are that various politicians have used?! We don't care!!! They all borrow some good sounding stuff from other sources, and there's nothing wrong with that -- the important thing is the message. Obama wrote 2 books and writes most of his own speeches. If he occasionally borrows a line here or there or uses a similar one, that is A NON-ISSUE and that wouldn't constitute "serial" borrowing. Geez -- start focusing on REAL issues and stories that are relevant to people's lives. Most people don't want to hear all this garbage -- we don't have the time for it; you see, we live in the United States and are not mega-rich, so we're struggling to live even though we make a decent household income. Our country has been raped since the years of Reagan, and most of us are paying a price and will continue to pay a price (and our kids too) for many years to come. So, we have more important things, like domestic and international issues, that we want to focus on with regards to the Presidential candidates. When will you get that?! Most voters will not let this kind of BS influence their important vote for President, so give it a rest.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:53 PM on 02/21/2008
- Blutus I'm a Fan of Blutus 11 fans permalink

Oh why can't Obama be like Reagan
and come up with all those original
lines and thoughts like City on A Hill and Morning in America!

Now there was President!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 02/21/2008
- research I'm a Fan of research 257 fans permalink

Ronald Reagan did the same thing without being criticized. In one of Reagan's famous speeches he used the line "If not you then who, if not now then when" and Republicans still quote this line as if Reagan (or his speech writer) had come up with it as an original thought. Reagan did not pause in his speech to credit the line to the Jewish philosopher Hillel.

The crew of the space shuttle Challenger honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye and "slipped the surly bonds of earth" to "touch the face of God."

Many think that this was an original phrase by Reagan following the Challenger disaster. The highlighted phrase was actually first used in a poem titled "High Flight" in 1943.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 02/21/2008
- research I'm a Fan of research 257 fans permalink

See? I told ya. The rethugs don't need actual issues, they make em up anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 02/21/2008

I don't accept the idiotic premise. Seriously, how would you have a person say that hard work should be rewarded in this country? Are the words "work" and "rewarded" trademarked or copyrighted by anyone? You morons who are perpetuating this story are not intelligent enough to recognize the difference between an argument and plagiarism. You can't plagiarize an argument, a rationale, reasoning.

How can we not laugh at someone who says that quoting JFK, MLK, etc. is actually plagiarizing Gov. Patrick? Or are you all seriously suggesting that we to label someone a plagiarist because of the chorus "just words"?! Can we start having IQ tests before someone gets to hold a post in the media spectrum because you guys are dumbing down the nation with every click of the enter key.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 02/21/2008
- Oldtt I'm a Fan of Oldtt 35 fans permalink
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Using a quote without attribution isn't plagiarism if the quote in question is so well-known that it needs no attribution. That's not the criticism being aimed at Barack. His entire storyline seems to be that he is the candidate of new thinking, but his speech was headlined by oratory lifted directly from Gov. Patrick's 2006 speech with no attribution. A speech centerpiece is not the same as an oft-repeated political phrase or slogan, especially when the speaker seems to be offering original eloquence. The problem for Obama is that he has been unmasked as just - gasp! - another politician who can deliver someone else's lines.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 02/21/2008
- sparkandy I'm a Fan of sparkandy 28 fans permalink
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All this really means is that 1) Obama's not as original as he portrays himself and 2) he's a smarmy politician. And I've never yet heard of a non smarmy politician. It's a trust issue and he's no better and no worse than any of the other candidates as far as that goes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 AM on 02/21/2008
- Pdubya I'm a Fan of Pdubya 44 fans permalink

save for ron paul, a statesman, not a politician.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=am-k5bL40kU

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 02/21/2008

his newsletters proved him to be a racist, or at the very minimum, an idiot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 02/21/2008
- NYC07 I'm a Fan of NYC07 60 fans permalink

But who wants a statesman who wears a pointy white hat and sheet ???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 AM on 02/21/2008

Indeed LOL! It's all “they” have on Obama because nobody has found that he's done anything useful in the legislature. Instead people are focusing in on what Barack says which is so short sighted!

Let's summarize: 1) Passes legislation to eat lunch standing up 2) Borrows speeches from a governor fraught with scandals, 3) Offers fewer challenges of power to global financial firms whom are the biggest campaign financers, 4) Deeply inspires

I’m also looking forward to the upcoming debates when the Teleprompters won't be on hand. Perhaps millionaire Barack will also announce that he’s proud to be an American for the first time in his adult life, as was stated by wife Michelle on Tuesday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 AM on 02/21/2008
- MRb1000 I'm a Fan of MRb1000 11 fans permalink

IF THIS IS ALL THEY GOT ON OBAMA EVERYONE SHOULD JUST LAUGH. LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 AM on 02/21/2008

Indeed LOL! It's all “they” have on Obama because nobody has found that he's done anything useful in the legislature. Instead people are focusing in on what Barack says which is so shortsighted!

Let's summarize: 1) Passes legislation to eat lunch standing up 2) Borrows speeches from a governor fraught with scandals, 3) Offers fewer challenges of power to global financial firms whom are the biggest campaign financers, 4) Deeply inspires

I’m also looking forward to the upcoming debates when the Teleprompters won't be on hand. Perhaps millionaire Barack will also announce that he’s proud to be an American for the first time in his adult life, as was stated by wife Michelle on Tuesday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 AM on 02/21/2008
- NYC07 I'm a Fan of NYC07 60 fans permalink

Here are the legislative experiences of Senator Obama . It can't be attributed to me, picked it up on another site, so go to Library of Congress and check it out:Obama"s Legislative Experience:"the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),**The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
�In the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.233 regarding healthcare reform,125 on poverty and public assistance,112 crime fighting bills,97 economic bills,60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,21 ethics reform bills,15 gun control,6 veterans affairs�


Hillary's Record:

In five years as the most influential Democrat in the Senate, Hillary has managed to get the following laws and resolutions enacted:

Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site

Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month

Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor

Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall

Name courthouse after James L. Watson

Name post office after John A. O'Shea

Designate August 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day

Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day

Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death

Congratulate the Syracuse University Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.

Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship

Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program

Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda

Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death

Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.

Only five of Clinton's bills are "substantive":

Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11

Pay for city projects in response to 9/11

Assist landmine victims in other countries

Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care

Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the Wilderness Preservation System

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 02/21/2008

Indeed LOL! It's all “they” have on Obama because nobody has found that he's done anything useful in the legislature. Instead people are focusing in on what Barack says which is so short sighted!

Let's summarize: 1) Passes legislation to eat lunch standing up 2) Borrows speeches from a governor fraught with scandals, 3) Offers fewer challenges of power to global financial firms whom are the biggest campaign financers, 4) Deeply inspires

I’m also looking forward to the upcoming debates when the Teleprompters won't be on hand. Perhaps millionaire Barack will also announce that he’s proud to be an American for the first time in his adult life, as was stated by wife Michelle on Tuesday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 AM on 02/21/2008
- StillAmused I'm a Fan of StillAmused 260 fans permalink

Sounds like a conversation with Gotti overheard at the Ravenite Club.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 AM on 02/21/2008

it's just not that funny- remember the last guy that the press fell in love with ? well it is happening all over again
www dot political amnesia dot blogspot dot com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 AM on 02/21/2008

And of all three of them, Edwards said it best. I swear, Democratic primary voters are our own worst enemy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 AM on 02/21/2008
- sparkandy I'm a Fan of sparkandy 28 fans permalink
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One of these days, they'll figure out that they're not the only ones who vote in the GE and nominate someone progressive Republicans and Independents will willingly vote for. Maybe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 AM on 02/21/2008

This is one of the dumbest "scandals" I can remember. Especially these new suggestions of "plagiaris­m." Using the same general phrasing is not plagiarism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 02/21/2008
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Isn't that how we got into all this trouble, politicians 'borrowing' from other people? NOW we're gettin' down to the bare metal...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 02/20/2008
- lvogt I'm a Fan of lvogt 25 fans permalink

One should give credit for a new turn of phrase but most of this is standard fare. "Reward work not wealth" is cliche, it can't be plagiarized. The same for many others. Inadvertent plagiarism happens all the time. I think it's not a big deal unless it's a unique idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 PM on 02/20/2008

It's all about language and delivery - Hillary talks about issues - Barack understands propagand and slogans, and his 'followers" have become blind to that. Hillary needs to focus on values - not issues. That is what the American people want to hear. Obama studied Geroge Lakoff's work on using language in politics - Hillary obviously hasn't. Google Obama & Lakoff
Recently posted on utube - a must watch and forward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuB_W8o_UsU

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 02/20/2008
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