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Governors: Include Coal in Energy Debate

ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS   02/23/08 05:58 PM ET   AP

Coal Energy

WASHINGTON — Governors pushing alternative energy development are not shying from coal, a major culprit in global warming but also a homegrown energy source and an economic lifeline for many states.

Leaders of coal-rich states say clean-coal technology is a must. Governors from states without coal want more evidence the technology works.

"There's no doubt there's a tension and there's no doubt there is very rapidly growing public opposition to coal," said Gov. Jim Doyle, D-Wis. His state relies heavily on coal for power although Wisconsin is not a coal producer.

Energy tops the agenda at the governors' annual winter meeting. The group's new clean energy initiative seeks to promote renewable fuels such as ethanol and biodiesel and reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

"Next-generation coal is going to need to continue to be part of our energy future for this country," said GOP Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, chairman of the National Governors Association.

"It is abundant, it is available, it is Americanized in the sense that we control the supply," he said Saturday. "We would be incomplete and doing a disservice to the debate and the ultimate policy direction that we're going to take if we don't envision coal being part of that."

Next-generation coal typically refers to capturing and somehow sequestering or storing the carbon that coal produces. It also envisions reducing or eliminating emissions as coal is burned.

Pawlenty has embraced renewable fuels such as corn-based ethanol and conservation, but he also promotes clean-coal technology.

Such technology is a rallying cry for many coal-producing states. They say it is possible to continue relying on the fossil fuel while minimizing its impact on the environment.

Gov. Ed Rendell, D-Pa., envisions an economic turnaround if clean-coal technology takes off.

"Coal states would be back in business big time and the economies would flourish," said Rendell, the association's vice chairman.

Presidents of two of the country's biggest power companies urged governors not to dismiss coal, calling it the country's most abundant energy resource.

"We cannot ignore coal, we cannot demonize coal," said Thomas Farrell, chairman of Richmond, Va.-based Dominion Resources Inc.

Michael Morris, chairman of Columbus, Ohio-based American Electric Power Co., said "the whole notion of delegitimizing coal is something we should all be frightened of."

Gov. John Baldacci, D-Maine, needs to hear more before he would include clean-coal technology among the promising energy ideas for the country. His state promotes renewable energy produced through wind, solar and even tides.

"You have to deal with the coal states, but I don't think you want them doing more of what they're doing until they change what they're doing and make it truly the next generation," he said in an interview.

"Not just say clean-coal technology, but really do clean-coal technology."

Proponents say all energy sources have their problems. The key, says Gov. Brian Schweitzer, D-Mont., is a national energy policy with many options and sources.

That is important because electricity demand will increase in the future. For instance, Schweitzer predicted that 10 years from now a significant number of cars will be plug-in hybrid vehicles, which will require more power plants, not fewer.

Coal "has a CO2 problem, wind has a reliability problem, solar has a price problem, nukes have a price and radiation problem," Schweitzer said. "So all of those technologies have opportunities. but they all have problems _ coal's no different."

He added, "What I can say about coal, is we have it. We have it in a greater supply than anyplace else on the planet."

Doyle, the Wisconsin governor, said the emerging consensus is a mix of approaches. He said the state's reliance on coal for electricity will decline but definitely not disappear.

___

On the Net:

National Governors Association: http://www.nga.org

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WASHINGTON — Governors pushing alternative energy development are not shying from coal, a major culprit in global warming but also a homegrown energy source and an economic lifeline for many sta...
WASHINGTON — Governors pushing alternative energy development are not shying from coal, a major culprit in global warming but also a homegrown energy source and an economic lifeline for many sta...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
themodernleader
03:11 PM on 02/24/2008
Finally, some elected leaders are discussing a high priority issue. Identifying the problem of energy is the first step to dealing with it so we don't regress back to a primitive culture. We don't have much time left. Our present energy policy is leading us to bankruptcy and ruin.
02:50 PM on 02/24/2008
We Should make coal as Clean as possible, without spending too much money on it, while we spend the big money on solar and wind.
02:31 PM on 02/24/2008
The 2 trillion dollars wasted in the Iraq invasion and occupation war crime could have replace ALL electricity generation in the USA,

with solar and wind.

Energy Crisis Solved.

2 trillion dollars. current cost for solar 8$ per average watt, 2.5*10^11 watt.

current electric USA use: 2.3*10^11 watts.

Wind is much cheaper.

New Solar tech have begun shipping much less expensive solar.

http://www.green-energy-news.com/arch/nrgs2007/20070139.html

batteries for auto and even ships:

http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/faqs.php

If we don't burn up the Methane Hydrates, The methane may release in a burst and trigger global warming since Methane is 20 times the greenhouse gas that CO2 is. The is 2-10X methane in the "Burning Ice" then all other know gas reserves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
04:15 PM on 02/24/2008
Keep in mind the largest PV farm is in Spain and covers 247 acres and produces 20MW of power with 300 days of sunshine.

We would need to replicate this 205,000 times here in the USA to satisfy our current use of 4 trillion watts (that is for the US alone).

If we use your 230,000,000,000 watts number we would still need 11,500 of them, however I have not seen any published data showing the USA electricity use this low before, where did you come of it?

3.35 trillion watts in 2004 - according to wikipedia
4.1 trillion watts in 2006 - according to 2007 EPA report

There is a huge toxicity problems with batteries. Fuel cells I believe is a better alternative to storing energy.

Definitely agree with you with the methane issue- that is the scariest one out there and should be dealt with immediately.
11:39 PM on 02/24/2008
I love it when someone goes to the trouble to check my calculations.

That 4 TW is total energy production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Electricity_production_in_the_USA.PNG

Electricity use is 2500 TWHours/year.

/356*24 = 2.8*10^11 Watts average.

I assumed that roof tops would be utilized for solar panels.

Lithium Ion batteries are by far the best batteries available and they are non-toxic.

By "crisis solved" I don't mean to infer that all energy is generated by solar and wind, but that all Electricity is generated by solar and wind, leaving us plenty of options for the remaining energy needs.

Also, of course, solar isn't appropriate everywhere, usually wind works if solar doesn't but some places will still need other sources of energy.
01:46 PM on 02/25/2008
Huff, I know you are busy with the Clinton Obama threads, but please post my response. Thanks.
12:00 PM on 02/24/2008
The EPA estimated that in 2006 that amount of electricity used in the USA was 4,066,666,656,500 kWH. That is 4 trillion kWH.
(http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/downloads/EPA_Datacenter_Report_Congress_Final1.pdf

Even if you reduce that number in half with people riding bikes and mass transit that is still a huge number to transition alternative generation sources to. This is going to take a while.

A knee jerk reaction to this has the potential to put into place other terchnologies that cause other harms. What is needed now is dedication to finding the solution. This means our top minds really addressing the available solutions. A national and international priority.

Covering the states with windmills and solar panels and forcing 240 million cars to bikes not to mention the trucks is not the best idea. Somehow I think we need something better. But in order to find something better we need to be committed as a world civilization in finding it.

Is there anyone out there who can inspire the leaders to all go down this road? Hmmm, I didn't mean to turn this into a poli statement, but oh well.
10:20 AM on 02/24/2008
There is a myth being circulated by the coal and oil industry that they actually care about the environment. They are even buying TV commercials that massage the viewers brain into believing it. DON'T GET SUCKERED INTO IT!!
Cigarette manufacturers did the same thing, using the same lobbyists and advertising agencies, for YEARS! They introduced "better filters", "lighter nicotine", and beautiful men and women smoking cigarettes populated their ads. They testified to Congress that cigarettes were not harmful. In the end, they had to admit, they lied. Their bottom line was the only thing they had their eye on.
COAL, and OIL don't want anything to change either. Politicians are touting clean energy at the same time as they are collecting donations from the industry. Benchmarks are being added to the budget to insure that the industry stays lucrative until the whole planet goes up in smoke. The only difference is that instead of a percentage of the planet being affected, as with smoking, now the ENTIRE planet is being affected.
Each one of us must take the responsibility for our actions. We must also hold our government accountable for theirs. Clean Coal? Yeah, that's what Santa Claus brings us in his bag at Christmas when we're good.
08:02 AM on 02/24/2008
Governors . . . Assholes . . . Wake up and smell the coffee!
Petroleum, fission and coal have got to go . . . Now! As for natural gas we can burn it for a little while longer but the clock is ticking.
The correct answer is . . . Wait for It . . . Fuel Cells, Wind Power, Water Power, Solar Power; burn natural gas only where absolutely necessary. Phase gas out as soon as possible. Mass Transit for groups, Bicycles for individuals. Airships instead of Airplanes unless they're solar . . . I could go on forever but the point is, we have to radically change our lifestyle on the Planet right now, if in fact, it isn't already too late.
09:03 AM on 02/24/2008
Exactly Fathoms, the NEW technologies you mention ARE the job CREATORS of the future. Coal is just another finite petroleum product. It spews green house gasses, requires mining, sometimes strip mining, its dangerous to extract, and the waste it creates leaves nearby water sources and the ground dead. The overall economic costs to the environment far outweigh the cost of renewables.

COAL = MORE OF THE SAME.

Anyone who promotes coal as clean is usually a coal industry lobbyist or a politician with his hands in their pockets, i.e., lying.
11:36 AM on 02/24/2008
CO2 sequestration from coal is a dead end. The only pilot project in the world to demonstrate it has just been shut down due to cost and time overruns. The coal-fired utlities have not even cleaned up the pollutants such as mercury and sulfur dioxide they do have control over. Instead of building new plants which have to clean these up, they have been increasing capacity by performing major rebuilds on existing plants which are grandfathered under the pollution control laws.

This will go on until the day we exact a direct cost to the utilities for these pollutants and use the proceeds to subsidize solar and wind. The smart money is already buying up large tracts of desert land near major cities, near a road and near a power line. Concentrated solar generation costs approaching a dollar a watt are imminent. Instead of spending money trying to clean up coal, we should be advancing solar ASAP.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
solarenergy
12:08 PM on 02/24/2008
Clean Coal is an oxymoron marketing slogan devised by those who want to continue to profit by polluting the planet. There is no Clean Coal technology, period. Is is a joke.

Put the coal miners to work building solar or wind or geothermal power stations on every rooftop (or on the ground), on every government building, every residence, in every neighborhood, on every small business, over every parking lot (to make power and reduce the heat island effect, then charge you hybrid plug-in while you're buying made in America items in the store.

Hey Govs, quit blowing the tops off of the mountains. It is despicable.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
realitytrumpsbull
two 'alves of coconut!
01:27 AM on 02/24/2008
If the old pattern is screwing us in the back pocket, there, then we need to develop a new way of doing what needs done. WHY haul a tomato ALL the way from Guatemala to the United States when you can grow em in your back yard, throw em in the donkey cart or flying saucer or whatever you've got there, and take em to market yourself? Growing veggies isn't splitting the atom, but the whole apparatus could stand a good independent dressing-down to see how much money can be saved through conservation and innovation. Couple of die-hards and a good-sized solar panel=your computer never draws another amp off the grid. Ever. Hmmm....hmmm...innovate. Blank sheet of paper, get all Angela Lansbury on the problem, sans the systematic usury...there's a circuit load we can all do without. Don't just question authority, question EVERYthing. BE the 4-year-old...LOL
01:22 AM on 02/24/2008
No fossil fuel is the answer. I know it's hard for some selfish Americans to think into the future, but eventually it will all run out.
Sometime in the future Americans will say, "You mean they just burned it. Shit what a bunch of useless, lazy assholes".
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheJibreelaMonsters
the library is one of the best places to find me
06:07 AM on 02/24/2008
I live in Appalachia, chucking coal is my job!
07:53 AM on 02/24/2008
You're topping (strip mining) mountains and bragging about it?
09:15 AM on 02/24/2008
I hate to say it but, how long has the "writing been on the wall" that coal is an environmentally degrading, finite, dangerous to extract, dead end job!?!?!? 50-60 years !?!?!? Coal is bad. Get job training, get into renewables or other technologies. That is where the jobs are. Plus your kids & grandkids will have clean air to breath, a back yard with trees and wild life play in and not a cancer causing toxic pit. No gas masks required.
12:49 AM on 02/24/2008
I understand there is going to be a transition involved in changing to completely renewable resources, but just how "clean" is "clean coal?" And do we know the purpose of coal in the soil or the ground? By taking it are we depleting something vital or something that directly impacts part of the ecology of the planet? Even if we can take all the pollution out of coal, it's STILL not a long-term solution. We need completely renewable; nearly free. With no toxic waste. We are clever enough to solve this right. The first time. Finally.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheJibreelaMonsters
the library is one of the best places to find me
06:09 AM on 02/24/2008
Thanks to Homer Simpson we haven't had a Nuclear Plant built in the past 40 years!