"When This Is All Over, I'm Really Looking Forward To Seeing You"

New York Times   |  PATRICK HEALY   |   February 23, 2008 04:28 PM


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To her longtime friends, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton sounds unusually philosophical on the phone these days. She rarely uses phrases like "when I'm president" anymore. Somber at times, determined at others, she talks to aides and confidants about the importance of focusing on a good day's work. No drapes are being measured in her mind's eye, they say.

And Mrs. Clinton has begun thanking some of her major supporters for helping her run for the Democratic presidential nomination.

"When this is all over, I'm really looking forward to seeing you," she told one of those supporters by phone the other day.

Mrs. Clinton has not given up, in her head or her heart, her quest to return to the White House, advisers say. But as resolute as she is, she no longer exudes the supreme confidence that was her trademark before the first defeat, in Iowa in January. And then there were more humbling blows, aides say: replacing her campaign manager on Feb. 10, then losing the Wisconsin primary and her hold on the women's vote there last Tuesday.

If she is not temperamentally suited to reckon with the possibility of losing quite yet, advisers say, she is also a cold, hard realist about politics -- at some point, she is known to say, someone will win and someone will not.

"She has a real military discipline that, now that times are tough, has really kicked into gear," said Judith Hope, a friend and informal adviser to Mrs. Clinton, and a former chairwoman of the New York State Democratic Party. "When she's on the road and someone has a negative news story, she says, 'I don't want to hear it; I don't need to hear it.' I think she wants to protect herself from that and stay focused.

"That said, she knows that there will be an end," Ms. Hope said. "She is a very smart woman."

Over take-out meals and late-night drinks, some regrets and recriminations have set in, and top aides have begun to face up to the campaign's possible end after the Texas and Ohio primaries on March 4. Engaging in hindsight, several advisers have now concluded that they were not smart to use former President Bill Clinton as much as they did, that "his presence, aura and legacy caused national fatigue with the Clintons," in the words of one senior adviser who spoke on condition of anonymity to assess the campaign candidly.

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- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 64 fans permalink
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So is Nader going to run as a Democrat-f­or-Lieberm­an? I think the Greens have their candidate already. Is he going to get Bloomberg to be his VP? Or maybe he should get Mitt. His daddy ran for Prez 10 or 12 times. Mitt might as well get an early start, if he is going to beat that record. Of course, there's always Condosleaza Lies. She needs a gig, and she has a lot more experience than Nader.

Is Nader using the "not a dime's worth of difference" line again? Doesn't seem like that would fly. But then, Nader is not known for his realism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 AM on 02/24/2008
- Bobby I'm a Fan of Bobby 15 fans permalink

I respect a lot of the things Nader talks about and believes in. But Nader is about Nader now. It's ALL ego.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 02/24/2008
- shockmagog I'm a Fan of shockmagog 139 fans permalink
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Yes, his reputation is forever tainted since about 2000.

Much like Colin Powell's.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 02/24/2008

High-Noon Hillary?

"Meet me in Ohio?"

What, is she threatening to punch Barack Obama's lights out?

What happened to the new "new Hillary" of couple of days ago?

(Of is it the new, new "new Hillary"--so many changes in personality it is hard to remember the iterations. There was only one "new Nixon.")

Feigning outrage over a tempest in a teapot like she does doesn't seem very wise.

Especially when her own campaign's wheels are falling off, with revelations of Pharaonic spending by aides and other wasting of campaign resources.

And now, Ralph Nader announces he is running for president.

Against Obama he can probably shave just a point or two in the general election, but not throw the election to the GOP.

Against Hillary and the politics of special interest (look at the lobbyists et al who subsidized her campaign's Pharaonic spending)it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Let's restore integrity to the Democratic Party and sanity to the country.

That means staying the course with Barack Obama.

MARTIN EDWIN "MICK" ANDERSEN

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 02/24/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

The NYTs 'hack job' of McCain backfired and now the paper has dropped the allusions of a romantic relationship and may try to redirect the focus on just lobbyist relationships. Though McCain's past relationship with lobbyists has not been overly strong. I don't feel this tact will get legs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 02/24/2008
- Sisyphuss I'm a Fan of Sisyphuss 13 fans permalink

The NYT should have dropped the romantic relationship angle before it was ever published because it overshadowed the rest of the story. Perhaps publish something separately about it later, I dunno, but it sort of deflected the intent of the original article.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 02/24/2008
- Bobby I'm a Fan of Bobby 15 fans permalink

No, what the NY Times has done, is get other MSM outlets to do their job. Like the Washington Post and Newsweek. This ain't going away one way or the other.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 02/24/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 48 fans permalink

Never heard of the Keating Five? Don't know that 59 of McCain's campaign heads are registered lobbyists and doing business as usual on his campaign bus? Don't know those lobbyists are working for McCain for free, which amounts to millions of dollars in unreported donations to his campaign? If you think they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, call Bill Clinton because he has some oceanfront property in Arizona he'd be willing to sell you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 02/24/2008
- in4success I'm a Fan of in4success 43 fans permalink

ammobob -- it was designed to rally the base . . . worked very well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 AM on 02/24/2008

Just how evil is Hillary? She has been a Bush supporter, a Bush enabaler these last many years. One of the reasons the Dems are looked upon as so weak is because of folks like Hillary. Pro War, Pro NAFTA, pro anything to keep Bush happy. Sick.

What little respect some Dems had for her has to be flushed down the toilet about now. Most of us have been comparing Hillary to Bush for years ... in fact many call her Bush-Lite in Wasgington.

Phony, phony, phony. I am sick of these egotistical Bushes and Clintons who feel their relatives are OWED the Presidential Office.

No more Bushs ... No more Clintons ... Stop the Insanity. Hillary has made way too many liberals sick with her good guy/bad guy daily tactics. Pack your ego lady and both you and Bill take your money and leave America alone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 02/24/2008
- PODdem I'm a Fan of PODdem 2 fans permalink

Now if you really want change and hope VOTE NADER

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 02/24/2008
- Sisyphuss I'm a Fan of Sisyphuss 13 fans permalink

LOL!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 02/24/2008
- Ammobob I'm a Fan of Ammobob 36 fans permalink

There are strong, life-long NADER supporters out there and he will 'steal' about 2% of the vote from the LEFT. In a 50-50 country, this could swing it for the RIGHT.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 02/24/2008
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 64 fans permalink
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It's not a fifty-fifty country anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 02/24/2008

doubtful

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 02/24/2008

Obama 58%
McCain 40%
Nader 2%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 02/24/2008

Yeah, change that will destroy the country and hope that it will get better after Insane Mcain finishes his presidency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 02/24/2008
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Change and hope is the equivalent of that old Coke commerical about singing in perfect harmony. It ultimately sells corporate America. That is who Obama, Hillary and McCain represent. Of course if the election is close you have to choose the corporate Democrat over the corporate Republican. But you won't know that until the fall. Why not have real progressive values represented in the debates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 AM on 02/24/2008

The only change you'll get with a vote for Nader is in the form of begging for it on a street corner as John McCain will keep this country in the same direction that the neocons steered it.

As far as hope?

You'll have plenty of that too as you live under the overpass next to a bunch of meth addicts, while you continue to HOPE they don't slit your throat at night.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 02/24/2008
- rivrgrrl I'm a Fan of rivrgrrl 123 fans permalink
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Ayup, well said.

Anyone who thinks there is time between now and Nov to build up a grassroots movement into a national phenomenom to win the POTUS spot is seriously deluding themselves.

And, from our experience here in MN with a third party maverick winning the top spot (Jesse Ventura), that person is isolated without any support from House or Senate members and is basically ineffectual their entire term. The same would happen with Nadar, if by some miracle, he were elected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 02/24/2008
- V I'm a Fan of V permalink

Average Obama Chick:

He is soooo cute, ooo look at that mocha skin.
Can you imagine what our baby will look like?
He's on my cell phone wallpaper.

I think I'll vote for him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 02/24/2008
- Bobby I'm a Fan of Bobby 15 fans permalink

Next time you see an IQ, grab it. You need one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 02/24/2008

V, how old are you? between 11 & 14?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 02/24/2008
- degjack I'm a Fan of degjack 8 fans permalink

Sad but true. These REALLY are the kind of values Americans take into the voting booth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 02/24/2008

"When she's on the road and someone has a negative news story, she says, 'I don't want to hear it; I don't need to hear it.' I think she wants to protect herself from that and stay focused.

Sounds alot like the current White House squatter - let's just talk about good news - I don't want to hear the negative stuff. Yeah, like we need another delusional megalomaniac in the White House.....­sheeesh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 02/24/2008
- mawrm I'm a Fan of mawrm 24 fans permalink

This is Clintonian-Rovian tactical alert!! I REPEAT THIS IS A CLINTONIAN-ROVIAN TACTICAL ALERT!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL

Just dawned on me the reason for Hillary Clinton's faked outrage against the Obama mailer yesterday!! After studying the Clintons for years, you learn their behaviors. The Hillary Clinton campaign has some REAL NASTY campaign mailers or ads FILLED WITH REAL MIS-INFORMATION that they plan to release!! That may be the REAL reason behind Bill Clinton's appeal for the $1.4 Million dollars. They're going to do this soon and will claim that they were "FORCED" to go negative "in response" to the "deceptive, negative ad mailers" by the Obama campaign. There was nothing deceptive, offensive about the Obama campaign mailers which is why she DID NOT state specifics at the press conference and they've been around for WEEKS! Note that she ALWAYS blames her opponent for doing something negative that her campaign has done or plans to do TEN TIMES WORST!!
Stand by people!! I could be wrong about this however I tell you the Clintons are creatures of habit and usually pull from the same bag of tricks!! Please alert your friends and family and escort them to a protective area within your household to avoid the slime attack.

THIS CONCLUDES THIS ALERT MESSAGE!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 02/24/2008
- HLMerkin I'm a Fan of HLMerkin 2 fans permalink
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Yup.
Cite 'plagiarism' of her husband and of John Edwards in the last week at that the same time decrying Obama for the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 02/24/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 48 fans permalink

Don't fret, mawrm. Those fliers have been out for weeks and there is nothing in them that is not true: (1) Hillary mandates individuals to have the price of insurance deducted from their paychecks whether they can afford it or not. She lets the employer off the hook, there are videos of her saying the government would "go after" anyone who does not participate in her mandate and (2) Bill and Hillary supported NAFTA, Bill proposed and signed NAFTA, and Hillary went on the circuit in support of NAFTA. There's no doubting the facts of Obama's statement. She can't claim the experience and good parts of her husband's administration without owning it's profound failures. What's she going to do in the OH debate? Cry? Claim victimhood again for being held to the truth of the matter?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 02/24/2008

Good points,very good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 02/24/2008
- MBFLA I'm a Fan of MBFLA 2 fans permalink

We have been down this road before...y­ou vote for Nader and you help elect Insane McCain. Is that what you want?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 02/24/2008
- MBFLA I'm a Fan of MBFLA 2 fans permalink

We have been down this road before...y­ou vote for Nader and you help elect Insane McCain. Is that what you want?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 02/24/2008
- HLMerkin I'm a Fan of HLMerkin 2 fans permalink
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Wrong.

Why don't you blame Browne, Buchanan or other third party candidates.

I voted for Nader in 2000.

And I am glad we don't have VP Lieberman.

If all the Dems can offer is that they are not the Repugs, then as a party they are spent.

I don't think that is the case in 2008.
In 2000 it was.

If anything they haven't developed enough of a spine in opposition to W.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 AM on 02/24/2008
- rivrgrrl I'm a Fan of rivrgrrl 123 fans permalink
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Yeah. That Lieberman VP would have been sooooo much more disgusting than the shrubya has been. I'm sure he would have pushed Gore to the back bench and taken over.

Get real.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 AM on 02/24/2008
- blackrome I'm a Fan of blackrome 11 fans permalink

V (See profile | I'm a fan of V)
If Obama gets the nom.......­.........

I'LL VOTE FOR NADER.

even if I get a bad taste in my mouth.

I hope you teach your young kids Arabic.

They are going to need to know it for there future tours in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Afghanastan.

If you vote for Nader your kids will be fighting in those future wars if McCain wins.

America is already a Fascist state.

McCain will only complete the evolution.

What the GOP supports.

Illegally Spying on there Citizens

Bush and Hitler did it. The GOP supports it.

Torture, Kidnapping, Illegal Renditions

Bush and Hitler did it. The GOP supports it.

Illegal Invasion

Bush Check. Hitler Check. The GOP check.

Illegal War

Bush and Hitler got that covered. The GOP supports it.

Pass Laws that forgive lawbreakers. There lawbreakers that is.

Hitler did it. Bush did it for Scooby and wants to do it for the telecoms. Low and behold The GOP supports it.

Label and demonize a minority in there country.

The GOP have Mexicans and Muslims. Hitler had the Jews.

Participate in a Genocide.

Bush and Hitler are both in that club and the GOP supports it.

Can't make it in to the Fascist club with out mass death.

Run a campaign of fear requesting the Govt be given more control and the citizens less rights.

Bush Yup. Hitler Yup. GOP, Count them in.

Create a private Army.

Hitler had the Gestapo Bush has Blackwater.

So go ahead and vote for Nader if you want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:34 AM on 02/24/2008

The problem w/ Dems like you is that you are AGAINST the very tactics that have kept us safe from further attacks. I don't agree w/ alot that Bush has done, but TORTURE WORKS. Listening in on people w/ Al Queda ties phone calls WORKS! Pleae stop acting like they are spying on average Joes like you and me. You can't thwart further attacks unless you can do these very things. That's why I support the Patriot Act. Don't force government to put their guard down. When that happens is when we will see another 9/11 or it'll be worse when they attack a school. I say do WHATEVER IT TAKES to prevent those horrible things from happening. Spy on me all you want. I have nothing to hide!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 02/24/2008
- rivrgrrl I'm a Fan of rivrgrrl 123 fans permalink
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Quick! Look behind you. I think it's a terrorist! There's another one, out in the street walking past your house.

Run! Hide! Under your bed (they never look there).

Oh! They're everywhere­.....

Boo!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:26 AM on 02/24/2008
- Querent I'm a Fan of Querent 64 fans permalink
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Every recognized authority on the subject, and every scientific study says that torture doesn't work. You think you are an average Joe? I think you are a yellow-bellied pants-pisser who is willing to give up the rights that are precious to real average Joes for a fantasy world where you can be "safe". Go cower under your bed.

Oh, and since you have nothing to hide, how about putting your credit card number on line?

Pussy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:26 AM on 02/24/2008
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Just a couple of days ago we had the conciliatory humble Hillary proud to be on stage with Barack and ready to unite the Democratic Party.

But I guess Mr. Wolfson and Mr. Penn her handlers were unhappy with this new tone and quickly convinced her to step up the rhetoric and go after him with a sledgehammer.

The Clinton campaign is in total disarray, they are in debt, and they are being overwhelmed by a superior organization of volunteers and paid professionals on the ground.

How will this road show of Keystone Cops ever be ready to run this country on day one??

She has surrounded herself with arrogant incompetent fools who decided that negative attacks on a fellow democrat were the solution for winning the primaries.

They tried the lack of experience mantra, they tried the race card, they tried crying, they tried the plagiarism innuendo and now they are trying outrageous phony indignation about Obama shamefully telling the truth about her record.

When will this gang of political misfits ever get it right?

If this is an indication of how they will run our country if they ever grab the reins of power we are all in for a very rough ride.

From the very beginning they could not grasp the simple fact that liberal progressive democrats, the folks who vote in the primaries deeply opposed the invasion of Iraq.

They never anticipated the upstart Obama giving them a serious challenge and therefore her advisors counseled her to vote in favor of giving Bush-Cheney Authorization to go to war, they felt it would make her look strong in the general election.

Well, her ineptitude and lack of judgment has trumped her claim to more experience than her opponent and finally her militaristic saber rattling macho stance has come back to haunt her.

We Barack Obama anti war supporters may be delusional and naĂŻve as Hillary likes to portray us but we know for sure that he and not she is the one who can lead this country out of the darkness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 02/24/2008
- Bobby I'm a Fan of Bobby 15 fans permalink

I agree. As I said before, Hillary showed a ray of hope at debate the other night, when she closed with her nice comments. But this weekend, it looks like business as usual in the Clinton campaign. Hillary, you got some BOOS the other night for "dirty" politics with your Xerox line. People react the same way with your speeches and commercials that use those same tactics. The human side of you is what people react positively to. You obviously haven't learned that lesson yet. Or people on your staff like Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson haven't figured that out yet. Three things have taken out Hillary in this campaign. 1) Her pro-hawk voting record. 2) Her ties with lobbyists, similar to McCain, except she has EVEN more lobbyist money. 3) Her campaign staff, with idiots like Penn and Wolfson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 02/24/2008

bobby, i think bill could be looked at as being the most likely reason she is losing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 02/24/2008
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Nader in interview with Amy Goodman at Democracynow.org

Liberals especially have got to get over their easy abdication of least-worst voting for the Democrats, where they don’t put any pressure or they don’t make any demands on the Democrats, because they fear that the Republicans are worse. That sets up a system where the corporations are pulling 24/7 the Democrats in their direction to become corporate Democrats, like the corporate Republicans, and no one is pulling the other way. Why? Because they’re all freaked out by the Republicans, and they’re going for least-worst voting. All the bargaining power of progressives and liberals atrophy with that attitude.


Nader on Obama:

But when you watch him, he stays at a very high plain of generality and abstraction about change, and we’re one nation, and we’re one people. And that may sing with the desire of people to feel like they’re part of a unity, but it doesn’t do much for the productivity of the political dialogue. He does not get specific enough. Therefore, I think his main problem is he’s censoring himself, and that is not sufficiently rationalized by saying that’s just a tactic to win the primaries and get elected. After awhile, day after day, week after week, when you self-censor yourself, you become a different person, and it’s a reflection on character.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 02/24/2008
- rivrgrrl I'm a Fan of rivrgrrl 123 fans permalink
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Nadar is becoming as irrelevant as Bill Clinton. That he is choosing to run again makes me suspect early onset of Alzhiemers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 02/24/2008
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Then progressive values are irrelevent. I have been hearing that here lately.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 02/24/2008
- batgirlevi I'm a Fan of batgirlevi 9 fans permalink

Nader is a has been and a joke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 02/24/2008
- Rubiconski I'm a Fan of Rubiconski 30 fans permalink
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Clintonians please stop with this old politics of throwing dirt on the fan... Do like your leader and concede... I know you value your divisive politics more than the future of this country, that is why your Clinton family, together with the Bush family, sent this country to the pitiful situation it is in today....T­HIS MUST STOP NOW!!! We are tired of MAFIA politics and all the low level personal attacks that all the Clintonians do! Stop! YOU ARE DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 02/24/2008
- degjack I'm a Fan of degjack 8 fans permalink

You better get real. Call it divisive politics if you want, but I call it REAL politics. Obama will be going up against a Republican and they pull no punches to get their man in the top seat, legal or not. Ralph Nader always has had sound intellectual positions, and now more people than ever will be tuning in to him. That's the reality.
I for one am disgusted by the media's treatment of Hillary Clinton, and I'll be listening because I'm totally disgusted with the "process" -- same thing fueling the Obamazoids.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 AM on 02/24/2008

So because your Candidate didn't make it to the nom. you're going to make sure a Repugnant gets to be President in 09. Nice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 02/24/2008
- V I'm a Fan of V permalink

If Obama gets the nom.......­.........

I'LL VOTE FOR NADER.

even if I get a bad taste in my mouth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:10 AM on 02/24/2008

Bullshit.

Like the faithful GOP troll that you are, you'll pull the lever for McStain - as you many of you lemmings have been programmed to do all along.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 02/24/2008

^ god damn.

Wish I had fallen asleep last night.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 02/24/2008
- robodweeb I'm a Fan of robodweeb 126 fans permalink
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So you are okay with Gramps McLobby's plan for more war, less jobs, no hope and more debt?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 02/24/2008

I'm still waiting to hear how the president creates jobs....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 02/24/2008
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You will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 02/24/2008

Nader voters really perplex me. It's one thing to log a protest vote when the outcome is not in question. Go ahead. But when we need every, single vote we can get to make sure Senator McWar doesn't get elected, why in the world would ANYONE waste a precious vote on Nader? You have to also ask yourself what is in this for Nader? He IS NOT interested in your concerns. He wants to be RELEVANT. If he were genuinely interested in getting MANY if not MOST of a liberal agenda passed, he would never stand in the way of a Democratic nominee. He would never risk allowing another Republican to win. So, I have to wonder why anyone would support a man with this much ego? It just seems utterly ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 02/24/2008

I see alot of people talking about Nader. I always ask, "Did you learn nothing in 04?"
I don't know what Nader's game is. He knows he has 0 chance of winning the nomination, let alone the general election. I think the man is un-hinged.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 02/24/2008
- Bobby I'm a Fan of Bobby 15 fans permalink

V. V for vomit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 02/24/2008
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