In Early Case, Clinton Mounted Agressive Defense Against 12-Year Old Rape Victim

In Early Case, Clinton Mounted Agressive Defense Against 12-Year Old Rape Victim

Newsday   |  Glenn Thrush   |   February 24, 2008 11:59 PM


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In a presidential campaign focused on the future, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama spend a lot of time talking about their pasts.

Both lean heavily on tales of early, formative experiences - she running a law clinic in Arkansas, he as a community organizer in Chicago - to show they understand the problems of average people.

Now the race for the Democratic nomination is coming down to its decisive contests, with Clinton locked in a do-or-die struggle to wrest that prize from an increasingly confident Obama, who appears poised to make history.

Voters in battleground states such as Ohio and Texas are still trying to take the measure of the two contenders - and for both candidates, these vignettes are a critical part of forging bonds with fellow Democrats.

Obama, for instance, grew up in Hawaii and briefly lived in New York - but returns time and again in speeches to the streets of Chicago's South Side, where he tried to help residents of the city's forgotten neighborhoods build a better life.

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ayc said:
In 1979, I was 18 years old, recently registered to vote, and called to jury duty in the small Kansas town of my childhood. It was a rape case -- an 18 year old girl, and a 28 year old man...

... And his public defender who came out with the nuts and sluts defense. The PD thought the jury would cave, she thought that an 18 year old girl would never be able to stand her ground.

But I was educated about feminist issues - I had read about the need to not try the rape victim, read that a fair trail meant not destroying the victims credibility. It was a feminist issue, and it was clearly rape, and I held out for almost two days, until the jury foreman asked to go over the evidence again, and we re-voted and the accused was found guilty.


----

I found this:

Kansas Rape Shield Law...

Passed in 1976,

the Kansas rape shield law is codified at K.S.A. 21-3525. It is really an evidentiary law, setting out specific evidence that may be excluded from certain trials. The Kansas law applies to the following crimes: Rape,...

Basically, the statute prohibits admission of any evidence of the complaining witness' (victim's) previous sexual conduct with any person including the defendant. It also prohibits any mention of this conduct in the presence of the jury.


THEREFORE I DOUBT YOUR STORY.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 PM on 02/25/2008
- ayc I'm a Fan of ayc 14 fans permalink

You can doubt my story all you want - I lived it. I don't doubt it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 PM on 02/25/2008

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Well, since you recite such a clear visual of the events. You should be able to tell us the name of the victim - who was 18 -making it public record

I'll not hold my breath

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 02/25/2008

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As soon as the nutjobs here find out that the defendent was a registered republican, they'll clam up.

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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 02/25/2008
- wagadog I'm a Fan of wagadog 47 fans permalink

And as soon as the Local Chapter of the Paultard Trolls for Jebus start having their weekly circle jerk out off with the contrail fairies, we'll have three seconds of peace.

Hey wait! You forgot your tweezers and your magnifying glass, bro!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:35 PM on 02/25/2008

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LOL!

Bhahahahaha.

Wow that was a good one, Eadl!

Jezzzzuss.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:09 PM on 02/25/2008

Does anyone at the HuffingtonPost understand the role of a defense lawyer? Their job is to zealously defend their client so that the government is forced to actually do its job when prosecuting people. This story says nothing other than that Clinton was a good lawyer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 02/25/2008
- wagadog I'm a Fan of wagadog 47 fans permalink

False, StephenDedalus82.

A good lawyer wouldn't have stooped to impugning the victim's character and retraumatize the victim in order to get a mere plea bargain through.

A good lawyer would have recognized a loser when she sees one, and advised the client to plead guilty and demonstrate great remorse.

Leopold Bloom

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:49 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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Wow. OK, let's just crumple up the Constitution and call it a day; wagadog has just told us that defense counsel should just make a value judgment and allow the prosecution to send anyone they want to prison.

This is the best advice someone could give if they want to live under a dictatorship in 50 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:58 PM on 02/25/2008

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Ah, wisdom from the bench!

(the second-string players bench, that is.)

Yes, that's why Chimpy would have been a great lawyer - he could look into a person's eyes (like Putin) and judge their soul.

Or let God tell him how his client should plead.

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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 02/25/2008

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1982; Ron Williamson and Dennis Fritz, Pontotoc County, Oklahoma,were intimidated by police into confessions for the 1982 rape and murder of Debra Sue Carter and convicted. In 1999, DNA evidence exonerated them.

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1984; Darryl Hunt, convicted in 1984 of the rape and murder of Deborah Sykes, spent 19 years in prison, 9 of which were served after DNA evidence indicated that he did not commit the rape.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 02/25/2008
- ayc I'm a Fan of ayc 14 fans permalink

The 15 year old boy saw the 20 year old having sex with the 12 year old girl. Are you saying this act was consensual?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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No, the post demonstrates that the only protection citizens have against overzealous prosecutors is a vigorous defense. When a person's lawyer falls asleep in court, or fails to pursue all ethical means of defense, it's not only the potentially innocent person who suffers. The victim suffers because the perpetrator may still be at large. Society suffers because the potential for abuse grows larger when their is an imbalance between prosecution and defense. Finally, we individually come under risk because our fundamental right to face our accusers and challenge the veracity of the evidence is the only thing protecting us from absolute tyranny.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 02/25/2008

I am one of those people who coming to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton is an unscrupulous, win at any cost politician with an entitlement issues. However, any attacks against her relating to this issue are unfair and apportunistic. She was acting as a public defender. In that capacity she has to do what she can to impeach a witness regardless of age. We can attack her on any number of issues but not defending someone she was representing. Get it she was doing her job in which she was bound ethically to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 02/25/2008

Another prime example of Hillary's notorious overzealous "experience", however "experienced" she is, it makes not a whit of difference when her DECISIONS ARE BAD.

This article is just another point to the rotten kind of person she is.

BTW, her FIRST case was defending a food corporation against a guy who found the ass end of a rat in his Franks and Beans. Yup, she's a real "nice" lady.

Wonder how Hillary would feel if it had been HER daughter in that 12 year olds shoes?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:16 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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It doesn't matter how she might have felt - she was ethically bound to represent the client. Our legal system is founded on the principle of innocence before proven guilt. Want to be mad at someone? Maybe you should be asking why the prosecution mounted such an ineffective case. It's not the role of the defense to get punched; it's the role of the prosecution to land them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 02/25/2008

The decades of a "defense" such as this are the reason a womans past sexual history is NOT ADMISSABLE in most states.

She destroyed the victim. A CHILD no less. It WAS unethical, and the reason why her attacks wouldn't be allowed in most states today. We have come a LOOOONG way since 75 and the mind set that all rape victims were "asking for it".

She COULD have defended her client with out destroying the child. She could have done the RIGHT thing. She chose to do the thing that would get her the most recognition. There's a BIIIIG difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 PM on 02/25/2008
- ayc I'm a Fan of ayc 14 fans permalink

In 1979, I was 18 years old, recently registered to vote, and called to jury duty in the small Kansas town of my childhood. It was a rape case -- an 18 year old girl, and a 28 year old man. I still remember the color of her torn jeans, her underwear stained with blood. And his public defender who came out with the nuts and sluts defense. The PD thought the jury would cave, she thought that an 18 year old girl would never be able to stand her ground.

But I was educated about feminist issues - I had read about the need to not try the rape victim, read that a fair trail meant not destroying the victims credibility. It was a feminist issue, and it was clearly rape, and I held out for almost two days, until the jury foreman asked to go over the evidence again, and we re-voted and the accused was found guilty.

Senator Clinton was aware this was a feminist issue, she knew about 12 year old victims, and she abdicated her responsibility to the truth in mounting this type of already discredited defense.

She has a defective moral compass.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 02/25/2008

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I don't beleive a fucking word of it.

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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 02/25/2008
- ayc I'm a Fan of ayc 14 fans permalink

No, it was in Salina Kansas, and every word is true. When you are 18 year old girl, serving on a jury like that leaves an impact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 02/25/2008

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I saw that movie on 'Lifetime' last week, it was called 'Nuts and Sluts; Tweleve Angry Women'.

It starred Valerie Bertinelli.

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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 02/25/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 117 fans permalink
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In the case you cite, there was evidence of force to rebut consent, the bloody panties and torn jeans. The defendant apparently was alleging consent, and you reasonably did not believe it. There was no question of identity, I take it.

You seem to assume that all rape charges are valid, and that the accused party is properly identified. I admit that I tend to agree with female accusers in these cases, and think that in the old days, too many men got away with rape by accusing the victim of being promiscuous. However, I also have heard of the Scottsboro boys and the Duke Lacrosse team. While you and I would never make a false rape accusation, there are some females who do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:16 PM on 02/25/2008
- ayc I'm a Fan of ayc 14 fans permalink

I do not assume that all rape charges are valid, but there was as much physical evidence in the cast Senator Clinton prosecuted as in the one I sat on the jury. Oh wait, there was also the eye witness account of the 15 year old who saw the 20 year old having sex with the 12 year old girl.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 02/25/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 55 fans permalink

When she attacks a 12 year old rape victim she's gone far beyond "defending the accused". Boggles my mind any woman could do that to a child. I guess Hillary just wants to win at any cost as long as the cost is paid by someone else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 02/25/2008
- EvSmith I'm a Fan of EvSmith 7 fans permalink

Ok Hillary shills tell me again what part of "just doing her job" was the inhumain slander of the child victim in this case? You Hillary shills are too much, You all repeat one another, repeat Howard Wolfson and it's all twisted B.S.. You all have another thing in common, You are completely desperate and totally pathetic at this hour.

Eight days motherfuckers and then it's over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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She was doing more than "her job," she was participating in a fundamental Constitutional exercise - representing an accused (not proven) citizen. It was her ethical and professional obligation to take on this case. The court appointed her and she HAD to accept - there was no cause to recuse herself.

She performed exceptionally well for the defense. If you need to be mad, direct that anger towards the prosecution. They bungled the case.

As for the victim, she doesn't appear to hold any ill-will towards Hillary, so why are you directing your ire towards her?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 02/25/2008

I'm an Obama supporter, but I think Clinton had to mount an aggressive defense of her client (that's the law). The prosecutor admits that she asked not to be assigned to the case. However, it seems she may have crossed the line with the "blame the victim" bit, accusing her of making previous claims, etc. and using the fact that she has a crush on the 15 year old to discredit her. Those are the kinds of tactics that make girls afraid to report these things..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 02/25/2008

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It's amazing how much outrage retardicans are posting here over something Hillary couldn't control.

A court-appointed attoney can't refuse a case simply because they don't like the defendant or because of the type of case.

Where's your outrage when well-known republicans are arrested and convicted for committing such crimes?

And if you rightwing nuts don't like the principles of our judical system, one of the pillars that makes our nation free, then you don't like America.

Just go back in time to the Salem Witch Trails, or to the early 80's and the McMartin preschool case if you want to know if children ever lie or are mislead.

Better still, move to Saudi Arabia, where everyone accused of a crime is found quilty and punished immediately.

Only you won't, much to our country's dismay, because it's better for you here.

Here, you get to compalin and your candidates promise this and that, but they never do anything but fuck it all up for everyone excpe their friends (which, suckers, are not you).


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    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 02/25/2008
- olderdem I'm a Fan of olderdem 15 fans permalink

So this is where Hillary learned her "whatever it takes to win" tactics, no matter who is hurt? Shame on you, Hillary Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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Shame on you, olderdem, for suggesting that the Constitutional right to a fair trial, assumed innocence, and vigorous defense are somehow deficient. It is not the role of defense attorneys to place personal feelings above their responsibility to defend a client. It is a role critical to maintaining the foundation, spirit, and evolution of the law, and I would hope you might understand that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 02/25/2008
- wagadog I'm a Fan of wagadog 47 fans permalink

No, but after reviewing the evidence -- the rape kit, medical report, testimony -- she could have easily argued to have herself recused. Or taken extended sick leave -- because that's how sick it would --should --make anyone.

The hard facts of vaginal injury, the bruises, the scratches, the whiskey, the blood and the semen-- all observed in a 12-year-old girl.

That's not "personal feelings" Roshi.
That's grievous bodily harm, that is child molestation, and that is rape.

The 12-year-old girl and her mother were so intimidated by Hilary's administrative bullying--the endless affidavits, the stream of demands and depositions, the relentless re-traumatization:

===
"We both wanted it to be over with," the victim told Newsday. "They kept asking me the same questions over and over. I was crying all the time."
===

Crying ALL THE TIME is not "HURT FEELINGS". Crying all the time is PTSD. Permanent psychological damage. What does this sound like:


===
"I remember a lot of bad things about what he did to me in that pickup of his," said the woman, who says she attempted suicide a year after the incident. "I've had a lot of counseling and saw a psychiatrist for five to ten years ... It really affected me mentally. I was always kind of scared to be alone with a guy afterwards."
===


Classic symptoms of PTSD.




===
...the record shows that Rodham was also intent on questioning the girl's credibility. That line of defense crystallized in a July 28, 1975, affidavit requesting the girl undergo a psychiatric examination at the university's clinic.

"I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing," wrote Rodham, without referring to the source of that allegation. "I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body."
===


which, basically, is Hillary Clinton characterizing the victim as a lying slut--in so many words.

The victim didn't even know about this bit of backhanded character assassination Hillary did to her 35 years ago.

====
The victim was visibly stunned when handed the affidavit by a reporter this fall. "It kind of shocks me - it's not true," she said. "I never said anybody attacked my body before, never in my life."
====

Now, academic-style whispering campaigns and character assassinations are hard enough to weather as a full-grown adult. But this was a little 12-year-old girl Hil was doing this to!

It's just beastly.




=====
"She exhibits an unusual stubbornness and temper when she does not get her way."
====

In the absence of the shrink's actual report ("lost in a flood" remember?) perhaps ol' Hil is projecting again.

But what's the overall strategy here? Rape a small child, notice that it makes them a little crazy, and--and then use the psych report to discredit their testimony about the rape?

It's really quite logically tidy -- for something so unbelievably disgusting.

Remember, every time a little girl is raped, a Queen Bee gets her wings!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 02/25/2008

Since when does the principle of a Fair trial mean you FALSLY impugn the character of the VICTIM of a CRIME?

This was a 12 year old GIRL for God's sake. Yet, sHillary had no qualm about destroying her already damaged life. That is the kind of "experience" she wants us to hire her for???

I bet her tune would have been different if it had been HER daughter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 02/25/2008

I am an Obama supporter but I am also fair minded. That's what lawyers do they represent criminals. I don't think we need to bash Hill for doing her job and doing it well. There are some things that are just low blows as is this. What we need to do is make sure that all parties are fighting fair. We need to make sure she denounces the implications that she tried to perpetrate by having that picture of Senator Obama posted on the Drudge Report. Now that's a low blow and poor judgment. All of this hogwash is dividing the party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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She wasn't representing a "criminal," she was representing "the accused." It's a very important distinction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 02/25/2008
- lungfish I'm a Fan of lungfish 106 fans permalink
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No attorney is forced to accept a client... I have been in a couple of scraps in court and, on several occasions, due to egregious and indefensible behavior on the part of my opponent his counsel have walked off the fight. Never lost a court case, myself.
I think that Hillary is neither empathetic nor sensitive, she only thinks about herself and her career. This lack of principles is aptly demonstrated in her choice to usurp and parasitize Obama's principles rather than demonstrate her own.
She can mock Obama but she won't mock the Administration. She couldn't be bothered to vote on the telecom immunity bill thereby demonstrating her disdain for those who elected her... etc...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 02/25/2008
- Roshi98 I'm a Fan of Roshi98 11 fans permalink
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She was court appointed after the defendant demanded a female attorney represent him. At the time, there were less than a half-dozen female attorneys in the district and it was Hillary's turn. Not sure what you're talking about, but when assigned by the court as defense counsel, you do it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 02/25/2008
- the964kid I'm a Fan of the964kid 68 fans permalink
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Don't make excuses for this type of behavior - that's a 12 y.o. rape victim. Can't we agree on anything? This is the kind of lawyering most of us think is awful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 02/25/2008
- wagadog I'm a Fan of wagadog 47 fans permalink

Ah yes. Was it that Mean Ol' Judge Boss Mann who made her do it?

What'd he threaten her with, 5 years on the Parchman farm?

This must have been back in slavery time in Arkansas, before, you know like Abraham Lincoln? See, that's what slavery is, someone can make you do something you don't believe in no-how.

(crickets)

Man, I knew she was old, but I didn't think she was THAT old!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:22 PM on 02/25/2008
- MsLiz I'm a Fan of MsLiz 117 fans permalink
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You are wrong, Lungfish. A lawyer must have permission of the judge to withdraw from a case which is before the court. A judge can refuse to grant permission.

Hillary did a great job representing her client. I've been in the same position before, myself, and it is tough. Outsiders need to bear in mind that they don't know what the truth is in a case, and it is a lawyer's job to diligently advocate her client's case. If you were falsely accused of a crime, do you want a lawyer who acted as Hillary did in this case, or one who feels sorry for the person accusing you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 02/25/2008
- VOTER I'm a Fan of VOTER 201 fans permalink
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If only she had said "NO" to the judge about representing

the rapist.

If only she had voted "NO" to Bush's War of Choice.

If only she had admitted defeat in this campaign with dignity.

If only she would leave the Dem Party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 02/25/2008
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