Clinton Camp Throws Sink, Chairs, Table At Obama

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First Posted: 02-29-08 02:32 PM   |   Updated: 06-25-08 05:43 PM

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Hillary Clinton

Earlier this week an aide to the Hillary Clinton campaign publicly predicted that a "kitchen sink" barrage of attacks would be launched at rival Barack Obama -- and the sound you hear today is precisely that of the sink, the flooring and perhaps the plumbing getting thrown around the room.

The first bang this morning was a Clinton campaign ad featuring images of children sleeping and a red phone beeping. A voice asks: "Who do you want answering the phone in the White House when it's 3 a.m. and something has happened in the world?" A studious-looking Clinton is seen diligently answering the call.

The new ad was just one of several attack strategies at the center of a lengthy conference call with reporters later in the day, in which Clinton aides took Obama to task on issues ranging from national security and NAFTA to his ties to indicted Chicago political insider Antoin Rezko.

The campaign operatives also engaged in some standard fiddling with expectations, arguing that if Obama failed to win all four states that vote on Tuesday -- Texas, Ohio, Vermont and Rhode Island -- it would send troubling signals about "dissatisfaction with [his] campaign."

Speaking for well more than an hour, top Clinton aides Howard Wolfson, Mark Penn, and Phil Singer sounded a markedly aggressive tone. Wolfson lamented what he charged was media unwillingness, up to this point, to dig deeper into Obama's relationship to Rezko, whose federal corruption trial is scheduled to start on Monday.

"How many of you [on this call] know how many fundraisers Tony Rezko hosted for Sen. Obama?" he asked. "How many of you know how much he gave to Sen. Obama?" These were two among more than a dozen similar challenges put to the reporters on the call.

The Clinton camp also tried to draw attention to recent news reports that an aide to Obama had made contact with Canadian officials, assuring them that the senator's criticism of NAFTA was not as severe as he has been publicly suggesting during the campaign.

The Obama camp denied the story, saying no contact at any level had ever been made, but the Clinton aides pressed the attack.

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"I've found the Obama campaign's response to this has been less than definitive," said Wolfson. "Has Austan Goolsbee [the Obama aide] had any contact with anyone in the Canadian government or embassy to tell them that Sen. Obama's criticism of NAFTA was not particularly sincere? This is a yes or no question."

Earlier in the day, Obama had addressed the new Clinton "3 am" television ad as well, saying: "It plays on people's fears to scare up votes... We've had a red phone moment. It was the decision to invade Iraq. And Sen. Clinton gave the wrong answer."

Once again, Clinton's aides jumped all over Obama's response. Insisting their work was not comparable to President Lyndon Johnson's famous 1964 "Daisy" advertisement, which suggested that the election of Barry Goldwater could trigger a nuclear war, they accused Obama of attempting to remove the issue of national security from the campaign debate.

"It is an absolute insult to the voters to suggest that a discussion of national security in this campaign constitutes fear mongering," said Wolfson. "National security is an essential part of every election, it is a essentially part of what the president does. If we can't talk about it during an election, when can we talk about it?"

Added Penn: "It is not playing on people's fears, it is putting before people one of two central questions, who do you think is ready to be commander in chief and who do you think is best for the economy?"

On the conference call, anger and accusations were certainly in abundance. But so too was standard-issue campaign spin. The Clinton camp, playing off of a memo it had sent to reporters earlier in the day, insisted that if Obama was unable to pull off a four-for-four day in Tuesday's primary, it would signal "buyer's remorse" with his candidacy as well as "interest in having this campaign go on, at least to Pennsylvania" (which votes on April 7).

("There's a problem" if Obama doesn't sweep the March 4th contests, the memo states. "Democrats, the majority of whom have favored Hillary in the primary contests held to date, have their doubts about Senator Obama, and are having second thoughts about him as a prospective standard-bearer.")

One reporter asked whether this line of reasoning was a departure from comments made earlier in the week by Bill Clinton, who said that his wife had to win both Ohio and Texas to secure the nomination. No, said Wolfson, before adding that he would never question the judgment of the former president.

Asked another reporter: What would the message be if Obama won every state but Rhode Island (where Clinton holds a sizable lead in the polls)? Would that, too, be a sign of Democratic unease?

"I don't anticipate that that will be an outcome," said Wolfson. "I'm much more optimistic than that scenario being presented."

Earlier this week an aide to the Hillary Clinton campaign publicly predicted that a "kitchen sink" barrage of attacks would be launched at rival Barack Obama -- and the sound you hear today is precise...
Earlier this week an aide to the Hillary Clinton campaign publicly predicted that a "kitchen sink" barrage of attacks would be launched at rival Barack Obama -- and the sound you hear today is precise...
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- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 354 fans permalink
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"Wolfson lamented what he charged was media unwillingness, up to this point, to dig deeper into Obama's relationship to Rezko, whose federal corruption trial is scheduled to start on Monday."

*********************************************************

The Hillary Diane camp is now in full-on LIE mode.

The Chicago Sun-Times, and the VERY conservative Chicago Tribune, salivating over a potentially huge story, BOTH spent more than 18 months investigating ties between Obama and Rezko, and found nothing even remotely resembling impropriety or illegality.

That's it. I have had it. Hillary Diane is not only allowing this to go on, but she's right smack in the middle of it.

F**K YOU HILLARY!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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I saw Wolfson and had to turn the channel because he makes me sick. He reminds me of KKKarl Rove with all his spin and what I can only describe as his weasel type behavior.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 02/29/2008
- nohat I'm a Fan of nohat 7 fans permalink

One last thing, if I might, ChiGuy et al. Obama as both a man and a president will disappoint us now and then, it would be strange if he didn 't---indeed, he would be Jesus (and he isn't) if he didn't. And we know that---but here is Hillary, who knows we know that, stomping all over Texas with a bag full of red herrings, straw man fallacies, and worse, crying 'Shame on you, Barack!!! Meet me in Ohio and we'll have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign!!!'
Hillary the lawyer, who knows how to use straw man fallacies (other kinds, too) to her advantage. It's so patronizing. She knows better than we do not only what we need, but what we think and how mistaken we are in thinking it. And pigs fly.
I can't stand Hillary the hope-killer any more than I can stand Hillary the slick-city lawyer or Hillary the hapless victim.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 PM on 02/29/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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You know, what worries my most about Hillary is that she hasn't signed that pledge to restore constitutional rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 PM on 02/29/2008

Great last line. Can I plagiarize it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 03/01/2008
- nohat I'm a Fan of nohat 7 fans permalink

Don't worry, nobody's going to buy it---or, if they do, they won't let it sway their vote. Unless you're just upset at her tactics and aren't worried that they might work. If that's it, me and some other people here know the feeling. It is terrible when someone you once looked up to is exposed for down and dirty tactics. It flattens you. Have a beer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 AM on 03/01/2008
- LAcarlito I'm a Fan of LAcarlito 7 fans permalink

If that White House phone is ringing at 3am next year, it will be Hillary giving Obama a phony phone call as she will still be smarting over the whooping he gave her in the primaries in 2008.

Yes we can.

No she can't. Back to the Senate for Hillary on March 4th.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 PM on 02/29/2008
- VcKrc I'm a Fan of VcKrc 8 fans permalink
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I thought this was interesting Can we count this as a retroactive endorsment from Bill Clinton of Barack Oama?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGW38Zy4bJo

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 02/29/2008
- Karenina44 I'm a Fan of Karenina44 5 fans permalink

Wow... i find myself agreeing with clinton for a change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 02/29/2008
- on2them I'm a Fan of on2them 23 fans permalink
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excellent, thanks for the link. That's the bill clinton i remember.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 AM on 03/01/2008

Clinton cannot win... here are some very generous numbers for Clinton and it will show you how screwed she really is unless superdelegates flip the decison she can't win... check it out folks...

CLINTON WILL NEED 75% of all remaining delegates !!!!

by looking at this thing through true "democratic eyes" In terms of Pledged Delegates the people's voice the real magic number is 1627

Barak is at 1184 this would place him at being at 73%
Clinton is sitting at 1031 or 63% of the way to the pledged "magic number

There are only a total 981 remaining pledged delegates up for grabs in this entire contest

Thru Mar and April you have 573 delegates up for grabs in the contests of "firewall tuesday" in TX, OH, VT and RI, then a few days later in WY and NC. And in late Apr PA

There are two ways to look at this, part of me really doubts that Clinton can make this thing go all the way to PA unless she makes things thing really close in the 6 contests on March, so with that premise we'll subtract PA's 158 delegates from that total so the March contests would offer 415 delegates... Obama currently has a 153 lead in pledged delgates... In order to catch Obama she would have to win 87% of the delgates in the month March, that is impossible.

Now lets throw PA back into the mix, even with adding Penn's 158 delgates Clinton would STILL need to win nearly 77% of all delgates to match Obama's count as of Apr 22. Considering that Clintons best showing was 70% in her home state and her two next highest wins were in OK and NY and were arond the 55%... You can see that this task is nearly impossible.

so lets take a look at the numbers here with expected outcome and I will be very generous for HIllary...

Lets say Obama barely squeeks out a victory in TX with a 1% win in delgates (remeber Obama can lose by up to 5% and still achieve this and that is the scenerio I'm laying out) Obama would pick up 97 delegates and Clinton would recieve 96 (in reality thisshould be a much bigger win for Obama)... In OH lets say the firewall holds and Obama loses by 7% (which is a gross overestimation in my oppinion) Clinton would get 78 delegates and Obama would get 63... VT is a win for Obama polls show him at 57% lets say he gets 55% (again being conservative) Obama gets 9, Clinton would get 6. RI should be a win for Clinton based on polling... Clinton gets 12 Obama 9. So after Firewall Tuesday on Mar 4th being very conservative for Senator Obama... This would put Obama at 1362... Clinton at 1223... The two states after that would be are WY and MS, in WY if you looks at the avge victory in the mountain states around it for Obama he had a stagering average win of 66% lets bring that down to 60% Obama would get 7, Clinton 5, In MS this is a win for Obama we'll go with 55% as this was win in surrounding states with similar backgrounds and deomgraphics... 18 for Obama, 15 for Clinton... So taking us to the end of Mar contests the conservative totals for Obama would be 1387 and Clinton would be at 1243, this still would leave Obama with a 143 delegate lead so in this worst case scenerio of realism Clinton would have gained only 10 delegates on Obama... Clinton would need to win 74% of remaining delegates including PA isn't going to happen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 PM on 02/29/2008
- LAcarlito I'm a Fan of LAcarlito 7 fans permalink

Sound analysis Jeri.

Just what the Clinton camp doesn't want to see. They have lost 11 in a row. My hope is Obama has large victories this week and we can stick a fork in this whole primary season and move on to defeating McLame after this. No more having Hillary doing the hatchet work for the Rethugs any more.

Let's send Hillary back to the Senate on March 4th!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 PM on 02/29/2008
- nohat I'm a Fan of nohat 7 fans permalink

Even assuming that all you have said is true, there are other things she could try. Here are some, all of them in line with her emotional development:

(1) holding her breath until she turns blue;

(2) running away from home;

(3) wearing a Paddington Bear hat with 'VICTIM' embroidered on the front;

and

(4) taking Texas to court---largely for the purpose of buying more time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 02/29/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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I think if Clinton truly had no chance of winning, we'd be seeing some movement on the part of party leaders to come to closure on this nomination. We're not seeing that, yet. She still has a chance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 02/29/2008
- Sisyphuss I'm a Fan of Sisyphuss 13 fans permalink

The party is showing Hillary a lot of deference mostly out of respect for Bill. Patience will evaporate next Tuesday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 02/29/2008
- Boadicea I'm a Fan of Boadicea 68 fans permalink

Of course we're seeing that. Where have you been? Have you not noticed the difference in the superdelegates each has won since Feb 5?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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Great analysis my late statistics and probability professor would be proud. I actually saved it in a text file and will see how close it comes to reality though I know the numbers are very conservative like you said and Obama should beat them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 02/29/2008

MATH IS A UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE.... IT DOES NOT LIE

Please someone (is Clinton suporter) show a mathematical layout where Clinton wins and show me where she's going to make up the 153 delegate lead he has... no wait screw it I'll make up a way for her to win and show you just so you clinton supporters can see just how ridiculous this its already OVER... I'll post that in a bit

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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They can't with the primaries that remain so they will talk about seating the Florida and Michigan delegates and about their lead in Super Delegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 PM on 02/29/2008
- ArchAngel I'm a Fan of ArchAngel 18 fans permalink

3 am crank phone call...

Shame on you Barack Obama!

hahahahahaha.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 02/29/2008
- nohat I'm a Fan of nohat 7 fans permalink

Is anyone here as cut up as I am about the moral collapse that has brought Hillary to running the Little Red Phone ad?

I believed in her once.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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I was cut up in her first round of negative attacks. So this latest round did not surprise me the least. Goebbels could not have done a better job on this commercial.

At one time I said I would support Hillary in the general but no more. I will vote down the Democratic line but just not vote for president if she is the nominee. Believe me it hurts me to say that but the way she has acted this last month has been very disappointing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 02/29/2008

That's the decision I've made as well. I know the CLintons are thinking, "doesn't matter how we win. The democrats will have to vote for Hillary anyway." It's that kind of cynicism that has so deeply damaged America.

After this last week, I will not vote for Hillary. I'll vote Democratic on the rest of the ticket, but not for her. I'm in a safe state. But at least I won't have to pull that lever and inflict another cut on my soul. That's how badly I feel about the Clintons now.

She actually said in Ohio on Thursday: "Obama doesn't want you to have healthcare. He only wants children to have healthcare."

When phrases like this flow out of your mouth on a daily basis, you're no better than Bush. The Clintons have lost me forever. And I loved and supported them for years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:28 AM on 03/01/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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It's politics.

What disappoints me is all the Rove imitation that we're seeing. But in Washington, Rove is considered a genius—go figure. So, it really isn't that surprising. She's essentially making the same mistakes made by Gore and Kerry.

Time for a change.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 02/29/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 354 fans permalink
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As late as early January, while still backing Obama, I was saying how much I admired her. More so even than her husband, a president I admired greatly as well.

But ever since the sleaze started oozing from her's and Bill's mouths around the time of the SC primary, I have formulated a very different opinion of her.

She's an egotistical back-stabber who thinks she's owed the nomination solely on the basis of her last name, and nothing more.

Hillary, go to hell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 02/29/2008

When the red phone rings at 3 am I sincerely hope that who ever answers it takes time to fully wake up before making any judgement calls!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 03/01/2008

Is she seriously trying to find a way to stay in this thing even if she loses Texas or Ohio? I was really looking forward to this whole thing being over. I really hope she musters up some dignity and bows out with grace after Obama wins Texas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 02/29/2008
- iburl I'm a Fan of iburl 3 fans permalink
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Funny how we have to change the rules in the middle of the game to allow FL and MI voters to no be disenfranchised because she won MI and FL, but when she's expected to lose the cacuses here in TX, then it's no big deal to disenfranchise us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 02/29/2008

Obama has been a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ for the past 20 years. So we are sure he is a not muslim. But what does his church stand for, please check it out at:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm



Notice the first sentence in the “about us” states :

“We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian”

And also in the 10 point vision point number 4 states:

“A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA”



Can someone explain how can a United States of AMERICA presidence have a non-negotiable commitmment to another continent?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 PM on 02/29/2008

It is no different than an Irish Catholic Church having an appreciation for Ireland and St. Pats Day.

They are black folk dominantly. That's what it's about.

Besides that, my denomination (United Methodist) has a commitment to Africa as well, though most of us are white.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 02/29/2008
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Why is this important? Why are you focusing on stupid shit like religion? Who gives a rats ass?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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Many in the Jewish community in synagogues have a commitment to Israel.

What's your point except to interject race once again into this campaign?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 PM on 02/29/2008

Don't be utterly silly. You know they are talking about heritage and culture - not some conspiratorial governmental allegiance. I've been in very few black churches in the last 20 years that hasn't made some statement to the same effect.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 02/29/2008
- Micah616 I'm a Fan of Micah616 4 fans permalink

Interestingly enough, you left out :

"3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION" (original emphasis)

All my life, I've heard conservative Whites talking about how Blacks need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and make their lives and communities better. Here, you have people who have taken them up on their advice. So, to answer your question, the church stands for getting Black people to take responsibility for their own lives, rather than blame the "White Man." The church represents leaving the past in the past and moving on into the future. The church stands for remembering heritage, and also remembering that some people have it a lot worse than American Blacks, especially those in Africa.

Yes, I am Black, but I am not a member of this or any other church. Rather than be scared of Blacks trying to do the right things for themselves, you should embrace it, and hope that the mentality spreads.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 02/29/2008

If Hillary loses Texas and Ohio then the Michigan and Florida votes will probably be a moot point with regard to who wins the nomination and the DNC will graciously decide they should not be disenfranchised and they will be seated, the bigger question is how much damage has been done and how those two states will vote in the general election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 PM on 02/29/2008
- nohat I'm a Fan of nohat 7 fans permalink

Funny it is. And it''s vintage Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 PM on 02/29/2008

Hill and Friends are plenty freaked. That's obvious. It's over for Obama unless he wins the next 4 states? Get real, it's over for Hill if she doesn't take Ohio and Texas by double digits. They are sooo Rove-ian....let's just make something up - doesn't matter if it's true or not.

We all know they're desperate. The red phone ad is nothing more than fear mongering. Just because Hill and Friends are responsible doesn't alter that fact. More Rove tactics - not surprising. How very Bush/Cheney it is.

As far as questions about whether Obama is prepared to lead from "day one", I don't think Chris Dodd, Ted Kennedy, Byron Dorgan, Jay Rockefeller, John Lewis (who painfully switched to Obama) and the rest who support him wonder about that for a second. I think they see that experience is no match for wisdom. One can learn facts and figures but wisdom is another thing entirely.

The worst times bring out the best or the worst in people, in the case of Hill and Friends, it's definitely not the best. As a woman, I hope to vote for a woman presidential candidate someday but this isn't the time nor is Hill the woman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 02/29/2008
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It's hilarious that the Clinton camp is trying to put the win/lose pressure on Obama. She was polling 20 FREAKING POINTS AHEAD in those states, now she's in a position to lose some or all of them.

Hillary - nobody's buying the spin. You're done. Bow out gracefully while you can.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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One exceptional thing I have noticed about Obama is his extremely quick learning curve. In the first debates Obama was mumbling and a bit unsure of himself, but with each debate he has gotten better and better and he held his own in the debates since the nomination process started and I think he clearly won the last two. Even Tucker Carlson conceded that when he would go through the last few transcripts of the Democratic debates Obama spoke with perfect grammar. Tucker is a frustrated English major so even he was very impressed by this fact. No doubt it takes a great deal of intelligence to make this much improvement in a short amount of time.

Another thing I noticed was that earlier in the campaign this year he was a little late in responding to attacks and his responses were not very good, but in February he has responded with almost lightning quickness and very effectively. By him taking the role of counter puncher he nullifies attacks against him quickly and does not sound like the cynical politicians Hillary and McCrazy are.

I noticed he has put together a great team that keeps him up to date with other campaigns and current events. The last thing we need is another president like Bush who is so out of touch that he does not know gas prices are likely to be over $4/gal.

I am a scientist who has managed and hired a good number of people over my career and I learned one major tenet when hiring someone. It is better to hire someone based on their ability to learn rather than what they know at the current time. Obviously someone needs to have a basis of knowledge to perform competently but I believe as a constitutional lawyer with 20 years of experience Obama has all the knowledge base he needs to be a good president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 02/29/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Excellent and thoughtful, been thinking similarly at Obama's skills to adapt to situations without using the same dishonest tactics used against him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 02/29/2008
- indie17 I'm a Fan of indie17 9 fans permalink

Enjoyed your post. I am sure you appreciate experts in their field. Please read, 'Historians for Obama."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-pollack/yes-obama-has-substance-_b_87126.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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Excellent link and article. I bookmarked the link in my Obama folder, I also have a McCrazy folder for obvious reasons and curiously a folder called "History" for the purpose of archiving this historic election.

I have a Chemistry undergrad degree but I minored in History because I love the subject so much so I can really appreciate the views of these historians.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 02/29/2008
- Sisyphuss I'm a Fan of Sisyphuss 13 fans permalink

And I'm confident that Obama will quickly learn from his mistakes. All humans make them from time to time. One of the worst character defects of our current president is his apparent inability to even acknowledge the slightest error on his part. How can you learn from your mistakes if you can't recognize a mistake when one occurs?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 02/29/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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That's on fault of Hillary's as well. She never admits mistakes and does not learn from them much. It took her 20 debates and a grilling by Tim Russert to finally admit that voting to authorize the Iraq war was a mistake. By voting for the Iran censure she did not seem to learn from past mistakes. One last point she did not learn after WI that going negative on Obama is another mistake.

In fact, I think Obama may take Texas by a wide margin and has a 50-50 chance to win Ohio. Remember that on election eve Obama only had a 3-7% lead in the polls and won by 17%. In fact since Super Tuesday Obama has beaten the latest polls by 10 or more points in every primary or caucus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 02/29/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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Interesting and thoughtful post. I had noticed the improvement in Obama's debating and campaigning, but your point about ability to learn is a good one. He'll need just that skill in the White House. I think that's what served Bill so well—and not so well, sometimes—during his presidency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 PM on 02/29/2008
- estreya I'm a Fan of estreya 7 fans permalink

Beautifully stated. I completely agree.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:26 PM on 02/29/2008

Just got home from seeing Arianna live. She is quite insightful. She really makes her audience feel important.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 02/29/2008

so whom does she support ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 02/29/2008

She was pretty clearly for Obama. Seemed pretty disgusted with Hillary's tactics. Echoed what I have thought, which is that the enthusiasm for Obama is a rejection of politics as usual.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 02/29/2008
- MIHOP I'm a Fan of MIHOP 2 fans permalink

Manhattan, I think. Too many calories in New England.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 PM on 02/29/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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I've seen Arianna in person. She's a very impressive presence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 PM on 02/29/2008
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Many political watchers consider Clinton the Democrat to beat --

Clinton enjoys a substantial early lead for the nomination. In an ABC News/Washington Post poll last month, she was supported by 39 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, well ahead of her nearest competitors -- Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., with 17 percent
-ABC News 2007

Lol....what a difference a year makes

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 02/29/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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You won't find any complaints about the media then, when she was being anointed. When she's losing, oh, that sexist media is so slanted against her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 02/29/2008
- MIHOP I'm a Fan of MIHOP 2 fans permalink

Back then, where could he go? A black guy who wasn't black enough? A black guy who couldn't even carry a majority of the black vote?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 02/29/2008
- Sisyphuss I'm a Fan of Sisyphuss 13 fans permalink

Yep, and it wasn't long ago that Giuliani was the one to beat on the other side. That was then, this is now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 02/29/2008
- hu.man I'm a Fan of hu.man 11 fans permalink
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I just watched 2008 Black State of Union on CSPAN with the implication that it is OK for black elected officials to support Hillary because of previous 'loyalty' issues and that the caucus is evenly divided between Obama and Clinton. I am not black but this is biggest bunch of horse crap I ever heard.

OK, race shouldn't be an issue, ever. But here is a candidate that could make an enormous difference in lives of black folks in this country and the elected officials are talking loyalty. Clinton supported the black agenda because they need the votes. Simple as that. Blacks are the Democrat constituency.

All black officials who throw their support behind Clinton because they want to play the political crony game, will be voted office in the next cycle. It is just as simple as that. It is not a forgivable sin just like when Clinton voted for the war.

When you have an opportunity to make a bold move, to make a difference, you must act regardless of consequences. It is this very 'play it safe' approach that got Hillary into trouble when she voted for the war and she will pay for it dearly even though she doesn't want to. So will black officials who support Clinton for purely political reasons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 02/29/2008

Its not the Crony game, its called the loyal game.
Loyalty for the 35 years of work of Clintons that has contributed immensely to the african american community.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 02/29/2008
- hu.man I'm a Fan of hu.man 11 fans permalink
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The question to ask now is:

"Of the two, who can contribute more to African American community if elected president now?"

The answer, I should think, is Obama. So all the support should go to him regardless what happened in the past.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 02/29/2008

I'm black ... I was around for the past 35 years ... and I obviously missed the immense contributions that the Clintons made to the African American community. I admit that I supported the Clintons throughout the eight years of President Clinton's tenure, as did most African Americans, and he was indeed friendlier to the African American community than previous presidents have been. But it was a lot of talk, and not very much action, not to mention the policies of his administration that actually undermined the survival of those on the African continent. As far as the African American leaders who support(ed) Senator Clinton are concerned, I believe that some legitimately believe in her; but others support(ed) her solely for political gain ... or at least what they THOUGHT would be political gain, before she started losing!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 PM on 02/29/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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Good grief, African Americans cannot win. If they vote for Obama, they're toadies. If they vote for Clinton, they're cronies.

Get real, people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 02/29/2008
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hu.man, thats why you see the black voter going against half of the congressional black caucus.

Case in point: John Lewis.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 02/29/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

Like Lewis, who commits until it's inconvenient?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 02/29/2008

I am always in awe of the Clinton machine and their throughness. They don't want you just defeated, they want you destroyed. Does anyone remember the revolving door in the nineties, to the Lincoln bedroom in the White House, where enough money got you right in. They have done more to hurt the Dmocratic Party, than the Republicans could ever do. Honestly people, do we really want to go back to all that? Let's all move forward, and support Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 02/29/2008
- markkraft I'm a Fan of markkraft 15 fans permalink

Hey Obama people... please post the following everywhere there might be an Ohioan!

Ohioans! Whether you are a registered Democrat, a Republican, or an independent, you CAN vote in the Democratic Primaries!

Just be sure to do two things:

1> Bring ID. You can vote with as little as the knowledge of the last four digits of your social security number -- or with no ID if you request a provisional ballot -- but you really want photo ID with you, if at all possible. If you are a student with out-of-state ID who lives in Ohio, you should ideally also bring some sort of proof that you live in-state, such as a utility or other bill at your Ohio address.

2> Be sure to ask for a Democratic ballot, or you will not be able to vote for the Democratic candidates! If you do not receive a ballot with Obama listed on it, please request another ballot. You will automatically be registered Democrat for the primaries, but can change party affiliation at any time afterwards.

You can also vote early, before the election. In fact, it's highly recommended, as there could be very long delays at the polls this year. You can find your local early voting location and cast your vote today, tomorrow, or, in most counties, this Saturday at your county's Board of Elections office.

To find out your early voting location, please visit http://ohio.barackobama.com .

For any other information, please visit http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/PublicAffairs/voterInfoGuide.aspx or call your county's Board of Elections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 02/29/2008
- estreya I'm a Fan of estreya 7 fans permalink

This is excellent information. Thank you for posting it. I wish there were a way on this forum to bump up threads ...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 02/29/2008

yes, this is an excellent idea. ensure that Obama is the nominee, and then come november, get blown over by mccain voters, and turn the white house over to mccain. excellent plan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 AM on 03/01/2008
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