In The Paper Of Record, An Inexcusable Error

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Huffington Post   |  Rachel Sklar
First Posted: 03- 2-08 11:53 AM   |   Updated: 03-28-08 02:46 AM

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It was with interest that I began reading the NYT' s Jacques Steinberg's article examining the media's meta-take on recent charges of bias in favor of Barack Obama and/or against Hillary Clinton: "On the Press Bus, Some Questions Over Favoritism." This post might have been about the press musings contained therein had my mouth not dropped open midway at an inexcusable error — an error that would have been inexcusable in any context, really, but is particularly shocking to see in this one: "Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign, which only a few weeks ago released a letter signed by Mrs. Clinton calling on MSNBC to fire a reporter who had made an off-color reference to her daughter..." (emphasis added).

That is NOT CORRECT, and it has been driving me CRAZY seeing the letter portrayed again an again as an explicit call for the firing of David Shuster, the MSNBC reporter who made that remark (if you're confused, get caught up here). I can't believe I have to revisit this, but here's the relevant text of the letter:

Nothing justifies the kind of debasing language that David Shuster used and no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient. I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language.

I like to give people in the media credit for being meticulous and intelligent, but I don't see anything there explicitly calling for the firing of Shuster, nor do I think it's implicit, since Clinton made a point of implicating "the pattern of behavior" on MSNBC that led "repeatedly" to "degrading language." Obviously, that meant that Clinton felt the problem went beyond Shuster; what then would be accomplished by firing him? It seems clear to me that the call was for the network to look inward, and not assume that a "temporary suspension or halfhearted apology" was enough.

Never mind; members of the media spread that version, anyway, from the left (Greg Sargent at TPM: "Hillary to NBC: Fire David Shuster") to the right (Amy Holmes embellishing on CNN's "Reliable Sources": "The Clintons complained to MSNBC that Shuster needed to be fired"; neither host Howard Kurtz nor other guest John Aravosis clarified the matter). Somewhere along the line, the media turned a questionable interpretation of the letter into an actual point of fact — so much so that the New York Times media reporter printed it, assuming he was correct. I say "assuming" because I know he did not check, because I just asked Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson to be sure. "Jacques Steinberg and I did not speak for his story," Wolfson told me via email earlier this afternoon. I then asked him if the letter had been meant to call for Shuster's firing. Said Wolfson: "We never called, either verbally, or in the letter to Steve Capus, for MSNBC to fire David Shuster."

Well, alrighty then.

That such an error could be made in the New York Times in the context of an article wondering if there's media bias against Hillary Clinton is pretty damn rich. Seems to prove itself there, doesn't it? It sure as heck proves something.

Incidentally, that also doesn't address the omission in the very same paragraph, noting that the campaign had "provided a letter to The Huffington Post this week taking issue with The Times. The letter, signed by 503 staff members and volunteers, disputed the central point in an article on Sunday's front page: that the campaign was rapidly losing hope." Steinberg neglects to mention that the NYT declined to print that letter (HuffPost headline: "Clinton Campaign Response To New York Times Rejected"). A small quirk next to the blaring, glaring error above, but still a noteworthy omission.

And finally, a question of representation:

It would be difficult to analyze systematically whether the mountain of articles, blog postings and video segments tilts toward one candidate or the other. But the Project for Excellence in Journalism, a research institute that compiles a weekly index of campaign coverage by 48 news outlets, said that by one measure Mr. Obama had outpaced Mrs. Clinton beginning in mid-February -- prominent mentions in that coverage.

I'm going to focus on the first sentence there: "It would be difficult to analyze systematically whether the mountain of articles, blog postings and video segments tilts toward one candidate or the other. " Oh, really? Let's let the PEW Research Center take a crack: "Obama and Clinton Tie for Coverage, But Barack Wins on Tone" (Feb. 20, 2008). Or maybe a more mainstream indicator, like, say Saturday Night Live. I'm just sayin'.

Story continues below
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That an article purporting to examine allegations of media bias for Obama/against Clinton would make such errors/omissions here and provide such a glancing view of press coverage is really discouraging. We're talking about a pretty fundamental issue of press fairness here, in the context of what everyone and their brother seems to be calling the most important presidential campaign in recent history, and about how the media is treating a race between two singular, exceptional candidates — the first woman and the first African-American running for the nation's highest office. You'd think that there'd be just a bit more attention to detail. I haven't read, seen or scrutinized all of the "mountain of articles, blog postings and video segments," of course, but in the absence of that, I do the next best thing: Rely on the facts. Anyone out there care to join me?



Update: I see that Media Matters got there before me, also noting the mistatement by Steinberg and noting that the Politico's John Harris had asked her to clarify whether she was seeking Shuster's firing and she returned to the them of taking a look at an overall pattern, like so:

Politico editor-in-chief John Harris asked Clinton during the interview, "Two-week suspension, you said that's inadequate for what was said. What would be adequate? Are you looking for a firing or something more?" Clinton responded: "That's not my job, John. You know, that's the job of the people who run the network. But I think that they need to take a hard look." She continued: "This is like the third time they've had to apologize. And there are a lot of things that they haven't had to apologize for that might have merited one. So I wish they would take a look at, you know, some of the pattern of demeaning comments that are made on their networks."

Also, some of you have noted in comments that the PEW study I cited attributes the difference in "tone" to the events of that week — Obama's continued winning streak, the firing of Hillary's campaign manager, Patti Solis Doyle. Absolutely correct, but there were also allusions to press tilt toward Obama in three spots:

"(In some corners of the punditocracy unfriendly to Clinton, her political obit was being prepared.)"

"Here's one symbolic illustration of those divergent narratives. The front-page Feb. 11 USA Today story began with the news that the Clinton team, after a series of primary and caucus defeats, had replaced campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle. The next day, ABC's Good Morning America reported that the famed wax museum, Madame Tussauds, had just unveiled a statue of Obama standing in the Oval Office of the White House. (A Clinton statue had been created a year ago. But in politics, timing and momentum are everything.)"

"On Feb. 14, CBS' Early Show aired a piece examining the power of Obama's appeal with voters. "With soaring rhetoric, Obama is moving his audiences not just politically, but emotionally," declared correspondent Tracy Smith. "The stoic eloquence channels John F. Kennedy." It was the kind of story that has some Clinton supporters complaining about a pro-Obama press bias."

I knew it was a week of events as well, and those should be covered fairly, and coverage would reflect that. Something else happened in that particular week: The reaction to the Shuster suspension (He made the comment on the 7th, was suspended on the 8th and over the weekend Clinton's letter was made public. The following week, the reaction. Here's what I said when I taped "On The Media" on Thursday, Feb. 14th:

"I've been, I've got to say, a little bit surprised at the backlash that Hillary Clinton has gotten following the release of her letter to NBC News President Steve Capus in which she said that a half-hearted apology and a suspension wasn't enough. A lot of people took that to mean that she was calling for David Shuster to be fired, and so there was plenty of outrage over that. But I did not take that to be the meaning of her letter, and nowhere in the letter did it say that."

Jay Rosen pointed out to me that the reason Steinberg said it was "difficult" to entangle negative news tilt from reporting of negative events is because it is, and the study didn't do that. I will definitely defer to Jay on this since it is his area of expertise, but I still maintain that the PEW story references a pro-Obama/neg-Clinton tilt as an element of the story. But to the extent that my use of the example above was misleading I definitely apologize — considering the subject matter of this post, that is the last thing I want!

Jay gave me permission to publish an excerpt from our email exchange, further to the above:

There is definitely a case to be made about unfair media coverage and hostility to Hillary. The way it can be and should be made is through the discussion of cases. Of course you can't discuss all the cases. That's why it's so hard to make definitive statements about media bias. Most people find this intolerable. So they ignore it.

What I am telling you holds true for ALL studies of media bias that focus on, say, "positive" and "negative" news. It is not an observation about Obama vs. Clinton at all. It is an observation about the limits of social science. Nearly all studies of negative and positive news coverage make no effort to disentangle a negative cast to the coverage (or "spin" that the press may add) from negative events that happened. They don't because they can't. If Mark Penn quit today and announced to the world that he can't go on because the candidate sucks so bad, the "negative coverage" meter would go up for Clinton based on stories that simply reported what happened. It would also go up from all the "I told you so" stories loaded with attitude and spin.

Jay, you had me at "intolerable." Thanks for your contribution.

Finally, one more assessment: "Media Expert Decries Campaign Coverage" about Walter Shorenstein, founder of the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard (and Hillary Clinton supporter, according to the AP article). For your consideration.

On the Press Bus, Some Questions Over Favoritism [NYT]

It was with interest that I began reading the NYT' s Jacques Steinberg's article examining the media's meta-take on recent charges of bias in favor of Barack Obama and/or against Hillary Clinton: "On ...
It was with interest that I began reading the NYT' s Jacques Steinberg's article examining the media's meta-take on recent charges of bias in favor of Barack Obama and/or against Hillary Clinton: "On ...
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Is this a press release from the Clinton campaign? Certainly reads as if it were.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

You mean it's a reasonable take on the situation? Yes, it is. But it's not necessarily the Clinton campaign. I think there's some smart people here too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:25 PM on 03/02/2008
- jbcowan I'm a Fan of jbcowan 3 fans permalink

Rachel: You stated that seeing the letter (misrepresented) in the Times "is driving me CRAZY" !....

well, me thinks you're already there !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 03/02/2008
- Rachel Sklar - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of Rachel Sklar 65 fans permalink

Close, to be sure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 03/02/2008

".....no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient". This sentence couldn't be any more clear. Clinton means that nothing short of firing Schuster will appease her. In other words, a suspension and/or apology are half measures.

Rixhex56: How you can parse this any other way is beyond me. It is what it is. Clinton wanted him canned....­period.

Rachel is flat out wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 PM on 03/02/2008
- Myrrhis I'm a Fan of Myrrhis 3 fans permalink

I read it the same way, sconset.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:51 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

Your style of nonthink is exactly what has gotten our nation into the shit hole we are now in. Cherry-picking statements, taking them out of context, and putting meanings onto them that are not supported. Your statement is not supported by the facts, which are what was actually written in the letter, not what the Times SAID was written.

You quote a partial sentence out of context: ".....no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient". Then you say, "This sentence couldn't be any more clear."

This sentence says only one thing, and it is not what you say it says. It says that no apology, nor any reprimand against one individual will be sufficient to rectify the problem. Period, nothing more. However, the letter further explains what that problem actually is, and what the solution would be:

"I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language."

THIS is the sentence that could not be more clear. I clearly states what action Clinton is suggesting the station take to rectify the problem.

This is the only reasonable conclusion a logical person can draw from these statements. Your conlcusion, the Times' conclusion, is faulty -- it is a straw man argument. You are arguing that something was said, which was not said. Nothing reasonable about your conclusion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 03/02/2008

This sentence says only one thing, and it is not what you say it says. It says that no apology, nor any reprimand against one individual will be sufficient to rectify the problem.
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­_____

Matter of opinion as to whether HIllary is actually calling for Schuster to be fired. It could easily be interpreted that way, but so what? There was no excuse for his tasteless comments.

This seems like the real point to me, though. Why waste energy parsing Clinton's words when it's Schuster's that are clear as a bell? She is after all Chelsea's mother and why fault her for behaving as any parent might? Lots of other people demanded he be fired, didn't they?

I am no big fan of HIllary, but even as an Obama supporter, I think she deserves a break here, and would even she'd literally said he should be fired.

I suggest people move on to more important stuff and stop picking at her for garbage like this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 03/02/2008

I too agree with the way you read it sconset.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

There is no question about how to "read" it. You must read what is written, and you are not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

READ THE REST OF THE STATEMENT

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 03/02/2008
- rfstevens I'm a Fan of rfstevens 8 fans permalink
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yeah...and keep reading...­!

You engage in selective editing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 03/02/2008
- DRPike I'm a Fan of DRPike 13 fans permalink
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Hillary wrote "no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­." This is an implicit call for firing, your blog is tabloid at best.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 03/02/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

Exactly right. What the hell does "no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­." imply? Any literate reader would clearly understand the implication.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:36 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

There was no "implication". The sentence following that one stated clearly its meaning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 PM on 03/02/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

implication is a figment of your imaginatio­n.She did not ask that he be fired.Dont you have anything more to do than criticize people for defending their children?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 PM on 03/02/2008
- ozamerican I'm a Fan of ozamerican 2 fans permalink

But any literate reader would know that the second sentence follows from the first.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 PM on 03/02/2008
- January I'm a Fan of January 5 fans permalink

Or else it is an implicit call for an investigation, a reprimand, or whatever else it is newspapers do when a reporter screws the pooch. In the case of the NYT it implicitly calls for a promotion, which is what corporations regularly do when a faithful employee is so careless. I cannot refer by name, but I recall the NYT doing that in several celebrated cases in its history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:44 PM on 03/02/2008
- BonoX I'm a Fan of BonoX 4 fans permalink

The article supposed to examine media bias becomes a glaring example of media bias by propagating a blatant lie against hillary clinton! that is how sick the bias have become!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 03/02/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

BonoX, if it's a blatant lie, perhaps you would like to expalin what "no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­." implies then. Sure looks like it implies firing to me. Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:39 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

The actual letter says what the statement means. It means that the station needs to correct its reporting techniques. You have to read the entire context to understand meanings in written passages. Otherwise, you end up in illegal wars and giving up your liberties to an illegal administration in D.C., not to mention other errors in judgment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 03/02/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

Maybe you should find something more constructive to do other than reading things that are not there

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 03/02/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

There is no point in explaining anything to someone who refuses to see what is clearly written,and wants to rewrite it for what they want it to say regardless of anything to the contrary.I­n other words fools fail to see what is right before their faces.Can your tiny brain proccess that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 PM on 03/02/2008
- ozamerican I'm a Fan of ozamerican 2 fans permalink

Let's break it down:

1. "No temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­."

(So, what would be sufficient?)

2. "I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language."

So she's saying it's not enough to punish one person for one incident, because there have been many incidents of this type. Therefore, she would like to have no more incidents of this type in the future, including from other commentators.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 PM on 03/02/2008
- OverIt I'm a Fan of OverIt 75 fans permalink

Dear Ms. Sklar... How about a little fact checking of your own. Please consult your resources and get back to us about whether Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama are in fact "the first woman and the first African-American running for the nation's highest office". OOPS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 03/02/2008
- hmmmmmer I'm a Fan of hmmmmmer 29 fans permalink

Should be "First viable woman and black American", but even then isn't Obama half white? Isn't here another word for that. All that is news sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 03/02/2008
- ozamerican I'm a Fan of ozamerican 2 fans permalink

Guess she thinks we shouldn't count Jesse Jackson. And, of course, all the minor candidates whom we never hear about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 03/02/2008
- OverIt I'm a Fan of OverIt 75 fans permalink

In a post with precise word choice and meaning at the core of the discussion --- and in light of Ms. Sklar's sanctimonious dress down of the Times writer, I found her obvious mistake very ironic and damned funny! Schadenfreude I guess.

Although I might add that I saw Ms. Sklar on MSNBC a couple of nights ago and did not come away with the impression that she had been biased in her analysis.

And most importantly, am I the only one who sees a resemblance between Ms. Sklar and the trainer Jillian Michaels on The Biggest Loser!?!?!?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 03/02/2008

Rachel: Isn't MSNBC the network that you have a consulting contract with? You seem to pop up there an awful lot.

Reread Mrs. Clinton's letter--there is nothing ambiguous about it. She was calling for Schuster to be canned and nothing less was acceptable to her. I certainly can see her point as she has been treated very badly by Matthews, Mitchell, Russert, and Scarboroug­h--especia­lly by Matthews (who David Schuster works for).

So before you start typing your screeds, it would behoove you to read what is actually written. It must be some Canadian thing, but why do you have to underscore and italize so much--most of us on this site a literate!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

sconset,

YOU are the one who needs to "Reread Mrs. Clinton's letter". Read what she wrote, not what the Times says she wrote. Don't read what's not written, and the letter's meaning becomes clear.

An apology was not sufficient because it would not address the real problem -- the station's reporting techniques. There is never any indication that Shuster should be fired, only that addressing this as a single-emp­loyee-issu­e would not sufficiently address that problem. Simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 03/02/2008

To wit: "...no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­..."

What's the next step after a temporary suspension???
YOU'RE FIRED!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

What do italics and underscoring (which I don't actually see, by the way) have to do with literacy. In this post I see italics used, quite properly, for emphasis. The only other HTML I see are all of the red hyperlinks. There is certainly nothing wrong with that. Not sure what you are talking about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:15 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

Well, literacy also requires being able to draw logical conclusions from what you read, which necessarily requires reading what is actually written rather than what someone else SAYS is written.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 03/02/2008
- Dingoangst I'm a Fan of Dingoangst 9 fans permalink
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Everyone is right except Ms. Sklar. There is an implicit demand for Schuster's firing. I know that Ms. Sklar is wrong because Chris Matthews told me that it's always the women who don't get it. Rachel, just don't worry your pretty little....­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

LOL. good one...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 PM on 03/02/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

So the corporate tool matthews told you that"women always dont get it right"?What kind of idiot are that you beleive everything these hacks tell you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 03/02/2008
- rfstevens I'm a Fan of rfstevens 8 fans permalink
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Typical misdirection. You wingnuts have been using the same technique for years. The problem is that the American people have finally caught on.

"--most of us on this site a literate!" Are you sure?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:17 PM on 03/02/2008
- alan2a I'm a Fan of alan2a 9 fans permalink

Wow, an actually balanced fair and intelligent analysis regarding the press, Obama and Clinton. I'm amazed this Obama worshipful blog allowed it to be published.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 03/02/2008
- Eoin45 I'm a Fan of Eoin45 44 fans permalink

This blog has consistently published both pro and anti Obabma material, If you look elsewhere on it today tou will even find a blog by Hillary. You just don't want to see it becasue of your pro-Hillary bias.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:48 PM on 03/02/2008
- BluGrrl I'm a Fan of BluGrrl 6 fans permalink

finally

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:35 PM on 03/02/2008
- Merin I'm a Fan of Merin 3 fans permalink

"Nothing justifies the kind of debasing language that David Shuster used and no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­."

So, temporary suspension is not enough. Him apologizing isn't enough. What's left, a pay cut or demotion? I think most people, looking at this if all names were removed, would see that as clearly implying (not directly saying, no, I will give you that) that she wanted Shuster fired - or, at the very least, no longer on the air.

Senator Clinton needs to get her head out of her posterior and realize that less than being sexist or vulgar, Shuster was (ineffectively as most white guys are when they try this) attempting to be "street" - to "pimp" something has expanded so far from prostitution in our modern slang that this is laughable. We use "gang-bangers" to mean mischievous kids who are hanging out with nothing better to do, but the original vulger meaning of "gang-bang" is no longer there. Same with to "pimp" something out - in modern slang it either means to "enhance" (i.e. pimp my ride) or to use for personal profit (i.e. he was pimping out his copy of the movie) - and there the "woman rage" needs to go. I'll give that maybe all of ten years such a comment about a woman's daughter might be worthy of rage, but language changes.

This is as stupid as most of the divisive, play-the-victim, desperate tactics that the Clinton camp has been playing since Iowa.

She's losing. To a positive candidate. The MEDIA is NOT influencing that anymore than it influences anything. Had the media been anything but mocking of Bush for most of his time as President? He still got re-elected. Had the media done ANYTHING BUT proclaim Hillary as the "unbeatable candidate" prior to Iowa?

STOP WHINING ABOUT HOW POORLY ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL, INTELLIGENT AND FAMOUS WOMEN IN AMERICA IS BEING MISTREATED.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

Clinton clearly stated what she thought should be done. She did not leave it to speculation. Forget what the Times said Clinton said, and READ what she ACTUALLY WROTE:

"I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language."

That clearly says the the station should improve its overall reporting technique, not fire someone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 03/02/2008
- urgk I'm a Fan of urgk 4 fans permalink

Which negated the first sentence how? I've asked before, but how do you know that the 2nd sentence is something she's offering instead of the first and not in addition to it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 03/02/2008
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The way you can tell that this is IN FACT SEXIST, is that the same words WERE NOT USED for Romney's sons. Additionally, the way you know this is ANTI-CLINTON, is that these words were NOT used to describe the Bush twins in 2004. And they actually ARE WHORES.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:56 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

Like Rachel, I read and assimilated the rest of the paragraph. Taking things out of context is a big part of the problem. Clinton immediately went on to say that the ongoing pattern was the problem. I sure didn't understand that to mean "Fire the guy!".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

That makes no sense at all. Rachel was responding in a timely way to the NYT article published yesterday. Are you seriously suggesting commentary should be surpressed or postponed for the advantage or disadvantage of a candidate?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 03/02/2008
- wmholt I'm a Fan of wmholt 31 fans permalink
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I agree with you. If temporary suspension is not enough, and we hope she wasn't calling for him to be put to death, all that is left is to conclude that Hilary was asking for Shuster to receive a *permanent" suspension.

Supposing a CEO calls the manager of an employee into his office. The CEO says that because of some problem with the employee, a "temporary suspension" of the employee is not enough. What do you think that the manager will take away from that meeting with the CEO?

The manager will believe that he or she has been instructed to fire the employee - it couldn't be more clear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:45 PM on 03/02/2008
- phroso I'm a Fan of phroso 5 fans permalink

David Shuster deserves to be fired for his comment. It was as crude and dicey as Imus'. Glimpsing him now as I scroll past MSNBC (who even watches this sham station anymore?), he looks like a 12-year-old with egg on his face. His career has been irrevocably damaged, and he has only himself to blame. He is a laughingstock now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 03/02/2008
- jimsey I'm a Fan of jimsey 2 fans permalink

"'no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­.'"

"...I don't see anything there explicitly calling for the firing of Shuster, nor do I think it's implicit,.­..."

It seems quite implicit to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

Jimsey, PLEASE read the rest. She says exactly what she believes should be done. This doesn't seem very difficult.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 03/02/2008
- Brix I'm a Fan of Brix permalink

Shuster is one of the best reporters on television. One of the very few that calls down Repugs when they BS.

When Hillary lashes out, somehow it's always those on the left that suffer for it. She'll get no backing from me against Shuster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 03/02/2008
- Doug Watt I'm a Fan of Doug Watt 3 fans permalink

C'mon Rachel, you have to know that she was calling for Shuster's firing when she said "no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient­.".

You're not giving a TV interview here, we can examine your words for veracity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

She wasn't calling for anyone's firing -- she was calling for the network to change its reporting techniques:

"I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language."

Read what she wrote, not the Times said she wrote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 03/02/2008
- Rachel Sklar - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of Rachel Sklar 65 fans permalink

I don't know what that means, Doug, but I clearly lay out my interpretation above.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

Rachel,

He probably doesn't know what it means, either.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 03/02/2008
- Doug Watt I'm a Fan of Doug Watt 3 fans permalink

It means that the NYT's view was not an inexcusable error, Rachel. Reading the comments here leads me to believe that reasonable people could assume that Clinton was calling for MSNBC to fire Shuster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 03/02/2008
- LVLefty I'm a Fan of LVLefty 6 fans permalink

As the anti-Clinton comments here demonstrate, the issue is whose ox is being gored--or should I say Gored? Anybody remember what was done to Al Gore in 2000? Have we learned anything? Obviously, some have not. Here's the point: the mainstream media will beat up whoever they don't like. They like Obama and McCain. They dislike Clinton. I'm not saying she is the best candidate. But if you cannot see what is going on, it is because you choose not to because you are too busy hating her and enjoying how she is treated. If so, chances are you might be backing Obama. All well and good. Wait until the MSM's love affair with McCain leads to him being misrepresented, and then let's see if you are singing the same song you are now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

Well stated, LV.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 03/02/2008
- SCharb I'm a Fan of SCharb 3 fans permalink

"No temporary suspension is sufficient"

The letter's only one page long, so that quote isn't exactly hard to find. That's an "inexcusable error" on your part, Ms. Sklar.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:37 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

If you read the letter, as you say, you should have found the following:

"I would urge you to look at the pattern of behavior on your network that seems to repeatedly lead to this sort of degrading language."

That is a call to improve technique, not to fire someone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 03/02/2008
- Rachel Sklar - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of Rachel Sklar 65 fans permalink

I'm a little confused - is that quote above hidden? It seems to me I printed it and linked to the full text of the letter, clear as day. So I'm a little lost as to where I've erred.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

Scharb - Huh? Did you read the post?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 03/02/2008
- shinybear I'm a Fan of shinybear 5 fans permalink

It reads like a threat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 03/02/2008

Actually, Hilary's letter is just too poorly composed to interpret precisely. If it wanted to get Shuster fired, it shouldn't have elaborated the "insufficiency" point by asking for a broader inquiry. If it didn't want him fired, it should have said "disciplining a single individual" is not sufficient, without reference to the temporary suspension.

The most reasonable reading is that Hilary wanted Shuster fired AND a broader inquiry, but she and her staff did not write it carefully.

Another issue is that Shuster's statement is not actually off-color. To "pimp-out" Chelsea is just to make a large effort to have her make an impressive appearance. Check out the on-line Urban Dictionary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 03/02/2008
- rixhex56 I'm a Fan of rixhex56 15 fans permalink

----"The most reasonable reading is that Hilary wanted Shuster fired AND a broader inquiry,..­."

How is reading something that is not written "the most reasonable reading"? That makes no sense logically. If you simply read what was written, without reading into it something other than what was written, the meaning is clear. Examine your station's reporting techniques and correct this problem. It states that an apologiy will not address this problem, and so is insufficient.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

If I wanted to get Schuster fired, I would have said "Schuster should be fired". Instead, the call was for MSNBC to examine a pattern of behavior. Which they certainly should do. If Clinton wanted someone fired, I'm sure she would have picked Chris Matthews.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 03/02/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

Amazing ;the arrogant egotistical nerve of you people."th­e letter was too poorly composed"???/Excuse me.I understood every word.I just didnt try to add words that clearly were NOT there.If you are looking for an excuse to be stupid you will find them just dont impose your stupidity on others.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 03/02/2008

This whole food-fight thing is ridiculous. There is no point in getting upset over whatever the NYT prints (we know it's a proven liar) or what Obama or Hillary or McCain says about ANYTHING. The president in 2009 will be the president (at least he calls himself that) of 2008. He is NOT going anywhere! Get that through your thick leftist/rightest or middle brain! If he walks away from the power he now holds, he goes straight to a cell....so­mewhere...­as he SHOULD. SO he ain't 'goin NOWHERE! Gettit?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 03/02/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

I think that was a big goof by the NYT, but they were hardly "lying". There is certainly no proof of that. It was a careless mistake caused by insufficient research.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 03/02/2008
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