Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean and Florida and Michigan, Michigan and Florida primaries
Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean and Florida and Michigan, Michigan and Florida primaries

Dean Urges Do-Over Contests in Fla, Mich

JOAN LOWY | March 6, 2008 09:34 PM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Florida and Michigan.

"It'll be a hellacious battle," said Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman who sits on the party's rule-making committee.

Before the primaries started, "Howard Dean had enough votes to get most everything he wanted. Now that this thing has gone as far as it has and the lines have formed according to candidates, I'm not sure how that vote would shake out now," said Fowler, who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Nonetheless, Fowler said, something has to be done, "the rules be damned," to seat delegates from states Democrats have to and can win in the general election. "We're going to forfeit those two big states? What kind of fools would we be," he said.

Officials in Michigan and Florida have shown renewed interest in holding repeat nominating contests, and Dean has urged party officials in both states to come up with plans for how that can be done so their delegates can be counted at the national convention in late August.

"All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated," Dean said Thursday during interviews on network and cable TV news programs.

Dean said the parties will have to pay for new contests.

"We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race," he said. The DNC offered to pay for an alternative contest in Florida last summer but was turned down, officials at the party say.

Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, another of Clinton's supporters, also called for a new Florida primary, but paid for by the national party. Nelson and Dean spoke by telephone Thursday evening and Dean reiterated that the DNC will not pay for a new primary.

Cost may be a barrier. During a meeting Wednesday night among House Democrats from Florida and Michigan, Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida relayed estimates that another primary would cost the state between $22 million and $24 million, a vote-by-mail contest would cost at least $8 million and the bill for a caucus would be about $4 million, said Hastings spokesman David Goldenberg.

In Michigan, the cost could be as high as $10 million, depending on the type of contest, according to Democratic officials. Liz Boyd, a spokeswoman for Democratic Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, said Thursday evening that nothing had been ruled out but it was beginning to appear as if the cost and logistics may be insurmountable.

Republican Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said Thursday he would sign a bill for a new Democratic primary _ legislative approval is required _ but only if it was a last resort and only if the national party pays for it. But that seems unlikely, given Dean's insistence that he won't pay.

Top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair all now say they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. Officials in both states previously had insisted that the primaries held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated.

Clinton said she'd wait to see what proposals are put forward.

She won both contests, but no delegates. The results were meaningless since the elections violated national party rules. The DNC stripped both states of their delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates _ including Clinton and rival Barack Obama _ agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

"I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise anyone," Clinton said at a news conference Thursday. "Therefore I am still committed to seating their delegations, and I know they are working with the Democratic Party to determine how best to proceed."

She said it would be especially unfair to punish the 1.7 million Floridians who voted in the Democratic primary since the Republican-controlled Legislature and the state's Republican governor changed the date.

"They clearly believed that their votes would count, and I think that there has to be a way to make them count," Clinton said.

Obama said Thursday that the DNC should decide how to settle the dispute.

"I think it's important to make sure that people of Michigan and Florida feel as if they're part of this process and that they're heard. And we've just decided that we're going to play by whatever the rules the DNC has set forth," he told ABC News. "That's what we've done from the start.

"And I'll leave it up to the Democratic National Committee to make a decision about how to resolve it. But I certainly want to make sure that we've got Michigan and Florida delegates at the convention in some fashion," Obama said.

He said the DNC also should decide how to pay for any new contest.

Florida and Michigan moved up their contests to protest the party's decision to allow Iowa and New Hampshire to go first, followed by South Carolina and Nevada.

"The rules were set a year and a half ago," Dean said. "Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."

___

Associated Press writers Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., Tim Martin in Lansing, Mich., and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Fla., contributed to this report.


 
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I can't believe all the people who say they will vote for McCain if they can't vote for Hillary. RU NUTS???
This country WILL NOT SURVIVE a 3rd term of GWB which is whay McCain will provide. Country first people!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 03/07/2008

Yes, they ARE nuts.

That's exactly the point. The second point is that they are self-absorbed and delusional enough to think that anyone cares if they decide to vote for McCain if Her Highness losses to Obama.

I say to them: PLEASE, DON'T FEEL LIKE WE ARE HOLDING YOU BACK, JUMP SHIP NOW! SWIM OVER TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND CAMPAIGN FOR SENATOR McCAIN.

McCain and Barack are the country's best options in terms of integrity, honesty, and helping to heal the country from the republican-democrat civil war of the last 7 years.

Electing Hiliary Clinton WILL result in 4 more years of Bush-like bullying, secrecy, presidental over-reach, patronizing treatment of the American people, the hiring of selective "loyal" insiders, and an agressive 25-30% supporter base keeping the media nuzzled. Female extremist and religious extremists are cut from the same cloth, they simply have individual self-centered agendas.
Hiliary Clinton talks AT people and bullys the media in the same tone and manner as George W. Bush. We've been there and have the foot-prints on our bodies as proof.

It's very disappointing to see that Democrats are no different than Republicans, they simply want the female version of George W. Bush.

Hiliary Clinton is a feminist poser just as Bush is a religious poser.

How many feminist do you know who's claim to "experience" is: wife of a famous leader.
Had Hiliary Clinton been a male, he would be considered "weak", a "gigolo" or a "female lap dog" who is sliding through life using his wife's credentials.

How many other "experienced" female leaders think it's beneath them to work their way up public service by running for office themselves from local offices, mayor, state office, national office then presidency?

Somehow in the 35-years of experience (are we counting kindergarten also?) she only has ONE elected public office: U.S. Senator. I have seen her CV and can quickly come up with at least 10 female public officials who can beat her "credentials" with their hands behind their backs.

The great thing about Barack and McCain is that they are much more understated and modest about their CVs. Barack choose not to give in to corporate greed as Hiliary Clinton did, he left and took on the hard and exhaustion task of working in and among the average joe in the community. He did just as well academically as Hilliary Clinton and was elected in local government, wrote 2 best-selling books, and has been elected to the U.S. Senate at a young age. Some people would consider this genius but in Hiliary's world, he is considered a "dumb empy-suit blonde". Isn't envy one of the 10 commandments (maybe Hillary should open that Bible she carries around once or twice).

Senator McCain's CV is filled with an impressive record of accomplishments that the media obviously doesn't think is as interesting as Hiliary Clinton's non-existant 35-year record. Accomplishments beyond the 5-years as a tortured prisoner (yes, I am aware that the Hillary Clinton Feminist think that being a tortured P.O.W. is equivalent to spending one day shopping in 3-inch heels). I don't agree with his political idiology but I have a lot of respect for him. He can disagree without being disagreeable (George W., Hillary Clinton).

Hiliary Clinton is as much hype as George W. ; with the same irrationally and sheepish supporters. The Republicans lost their party's principles thanks to W., the Democrats are in danger of doing the same with Hiliary Clinton and her fanatic base.

If any Hillary Clinton supporters need help leaving the Democratic party and filling as a republican, let me know what state you live in and I will be very, very, happy to help you begin the process.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 03/08/2008

I voted for Hillary here in Michigan two months ago, and I'll vote for her again if we have a do over. If she's not on the ballot in November I'll vote for McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 03/06/2008

You have just summed up the whole scenario of the November election if Hillary is not the Nominee for our party. There are millions of us Dems who would rather vote for John McCain if we can't vote for Hillary. I saw this coming .......and most of my colleagues and friends have confirmed that they will do the same. So......even if they give the Nomination to Obama, McCain will get the majority of the Dem votes....pretty sad isn't it? The caucus vote is unfair, so if your state does a do-over, hopefully they will just do a primary type vote! NO CAUCUSES or Obama will win again!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 AM on 03/07/2008

And there are millions of people who won't show up to vote if Hillary is the Dem nominee and milliions more of Independents and Republicans who might vote for Obama, but who despise Hillary. There are also some Republicans and Independents who would stay home if it's Obama vs. McCain, but they will make sure and vote AGAINST Hillary in the General Election. She has the hightest negative numbers of all the remaining candidates and she's getting more of them, all the time.

But she may also end up doing enough dirty tricks in the primaries, to also push up Obama's negatives, and so McCain will win again. Which is probably what she wants at this point. She knows she can't get the nomination, so she's planning for 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 03/07/2008
- Suprshrink I'm a Fan of Suprshrink 6 fans permalink

This whole primary season was doomed from the start. Not only have two states been eliminated from the process but the ill-conceived proportional delegates, caucuses, and open primaries have led to the debacle. If we have to accept the God-awful caucus results that are hardly representative of the voters' intentions in those states, the votes from Michigan and Florida can be accepted as-is. If we can let Republicans and Independents determine our nominee, we can certainly accept the Democratic votes of those in Michigan and Florida. The voters voted. Assign delegates to the candidates. Uncommitted delegates can be assigned for uncommitted votes. It is silly to re-do these elections when the voters already identified their preferences and in quite large numbers.

Seating delegates from Florida and Michigan according to their votes would be no more stealing the election for Clinton (should she win) than eliminating them would be stealing the election for Obama (should he win).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 03/06/2008

You cannot allow the republican leadership in Florida to have it's way and either influence the outcome of the nomination process or do their best to fracture the democratic party. Either way the Republican leadership in Florida has deliberately acted in a way that favors themselves and hurts the Democratic party but that's what their job is. Hillary Clinton needs to do the the right thing and say that Florida shouldn't count and the reason is the republican leadership so blame them not the Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 PM on 03/06/2008
- Jazz42 I'm a Fan of Jazz42 6 fans permalink

I think Senator Clinton has gone over the top. If the Democratic party let her get away with stealing the nomination. The Democratic party will be destroyed. I was a life long Democrat. I have recently become an independent. The democratic party doesn't have the guts to stand up the these mad people, who are ripping the party apart.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 PM on 03/06/2008
- Suprshrink I'm a Fan of Suprshrink 6 fans permalink

As a newly identified Independent, it seems like this issue is none of your business. Don't presume to know what is best for the party you have abandoned.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 03/06/2008
- OtayPanky I'm a Fan of OtayPanky 63 fans permalink
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As an independent progressive, one of the things I've seriously considered over the past several years - particularly since the '06 elections - is that it's time to dismantle the current democratic party and reconstitute something new and different in its place, in order to provide a real alternative to the repubs.

Of course, the "creative destruction" of such a move comes with a lot of collateral damage. The short term results would be tough - and perhaps disastrous.

But the long term strategic opportunities of having a democratic party that really WORKS could be worth it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 PM on 03/06/2008

Count my vote in Florda Howard Dean.!!! Florida democrats had nothing to do with the vote being moved up. I'm sure it was a plot started long ago. Probably by Karl Rove.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 PM on 03/06/2008

As usual, Floridians are a bunch of screw-ups when it comes to holding elections! They must enjoy always being the problem state.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 03/06/2008

Sorry but the Republican controlled government did this to the Democrats and they won't allow another election. End of story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 03/06/2008

I fuckin love Howard Dean.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

Crist was just on NPR's All Things Considered (following Dean's interview there yesterday.)

You can listen once it's posted on their site, but he basically said his strong preference is to have Florida's delegates seated according to the vote they already had. Barring that, he's willing to hold a do-over - if the DNC pays for it.

Dean has already ruled both of those options out, and like it or not, the rules are on his side. There's decades of precedent for national parties having control of their primary schedule and rules. Florida (and Michigan, and every other state) agreed to that schedule and those rules. And here we are.

There are other things Florida could do to get their delegates counted (listen to Dean's interview from yesterday), yet Crist is only interested in the two options Dean has totally ruled out. Which leads me to ask (as I know little about Florida state politics)... What is Crist's interest in preventing those delegates from being counted?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 03/06/2008
- guajiro I'm a Fan of guajiro 59 fans permalink

I will venture a guess that if the delegates are not seated, some voters will cross over to Crist's party during the general election as payback for their delegates not being seated. Dean and the idiot democrats of Florida need to make sure the accusation of denying votes does not come back at them. I suspect that is why Dean is letting it be known that if Crist, who was the one that moved the election date up, wants to pay for the new election he can. Or, Crist can disenfranchise Florida's voters by not paying for a new election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 03/06/2008

Nowhere in that article does Dean "urge a do-over". Is this hack journalism, or a typing error by HuffPo from the AP feed or what? Pretty low; it should be corrected immediately. IIRC, a recent NPR interview had Dean expressly saying the opposite. More dirty politics? Do we need another president that would break and ignore the rules (telecom immunity, habeuous corpus, singing statments)? This and the fact she rewards Mark Penn's personal loyalty (sound familiar?) and gladly accepts his Rovian dark politics... Congrats, Hillary, you just made me an Obama fan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 PM on 03/06/2008
- guajiro I'm a Fan of guajiro 59 fans permalink

Where are Huffpo's 15 real human moderators when you need them? CNN pulled the same stunt tonight, saying Dean and the DNC approved of a do-over. A total effing lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 03/06/2008

dean actually is described as favoring a repeat vote:

"Officials in Michigan and Florida have shown renewed interest in holding repeat nominating contests, and Dean has urged party officials in both states to come up with plans for how that can be done so their delegates can be counted at the national convention in late August."

the head is actually ok,it's the story that is told backwards, leading with someone doubting that dean can do what we don't yet know he wants to do. that happens because news stories are frequently told backwards, from the most recent development.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 03/06/2008
- ceasenake I'm a Fan of ceasenake 8 fans permalink

The Democrats have made an abortion out of their candidate selection process - and you expect them to run the country?

Dean can't find his ass with both hands.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 PM on 03/06/2008

LOL

I totally agree with you on this one. The Democrats are not fit to run the country and I can't wait until the Republicans take the White House again and eventually Congress.

As a side note, I believe Hillary is just going through the motions because there is no way that the superdelegates would destroy the Democratic Party by giving the nomination to Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 03/06/2008

HRC are you working on behalf of the Republican Party?
There comes a time when a woman knows when to bow out with GRACE and class. Not to sound harsh or rude but take a look at the number of 2nd place finishes and the margins that you lost? You are a "smart" woman you can not be in that much denial.

So, I guess the people of Ohio and clowns that continue to fill your head with foolishness are affraid to be "real" with you...."YOUR STRATEGY SUCKED AND YOU CLEARLY SHOULD NOT HAVE IGNORED THE VOTERS IN PLACES LIKE SC OR WISCONSIN BY CHERRY PICKING THE BIG STATES". WHEN HILLARY SENSED DOOM SHE WAS OUT OF THERE AND NOW SHE CLAIMS TO "VALUE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE". SPARE ME!

Is your goal now to destroy not only what was YOUR's to loose but the ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY in the process?????

If ever the hopes and dreams of the party needed you to do the RIGHT thing, learn from the REPUBLICANS like ROMNEY and put the FUTURE of the PARTY and NATION in front of HILLARY and Bill or are you helping McCain with so that you can run again in 4 years????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 PM on 03/06/2008
- wyorange I'm a Fan of wyorange 6 fans permalink

As a sidenote, you might just consider what the result will be if thousands or possibly tens of thousands of democrats in Florida and/or Michigan decide to either sit out the election or to vote republican out of anger. My thinking would probably be something like, well my party was not interested in letting me participate in selecting the nominee so why should I bother supporting the nominee they selected for me?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 PM on 03/06/2008
- CindyKay I'm a Fan of CindyKay 16 fans permalink
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I am an Independent & here in Florida I will not be Allowed to Vote ( It is a Closed Primary ) Both Sides say that they want the Independent Vote BUT We Can't Vote. Why Doesn't My Vote Count Until the General Election ??? I want to Help decide WHO the Candidates are too.
Hillary & All the Other Candidates AGREED that Fl & Mi Delegates would not be seated & the Voters knew this. It looks to Me like SOMEONE has changed Her mind ( Again ) and now claims that She doesn't want to Disenfranchise the Voters. Where was All this CONCERN Before when the decisions were made????? Sound Familiar??? She ( & Others ) Didn't Even Read the Damn NIE but they went to war ANYWAY!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 PM on 03/06/2008

CindyKay writes:
"I am an Independent & here in Florida I will not be Allowed to Vote ( It is a Closed Primary ) Both Sides say that they want the Independent Vote BUT We Can't Vote. Why Doesn't My Vote Count Until the General Election ??? I want to Help decide WHO the Candidates are too."
-----
One of the B I G problems with the "Democratic" primaries so far is that Republicans and decline-to­-state/"in­dependent" voters A R E participating in a fundamental PARTISAN matter. If you want to "help decide who the candidates are", you should pick a party!

To make matters worse, both faces of the Hillobama -- distinguished mainly by the accidental attributes of his honey-colored birthday suit, her gender -- affect "post-partisan" solidarity with such right-wing dingbats -- excuse me: "war heros", and guys who played war heros in the movies -- as Ronald Reagan and John McCain.

Florida's just the beginning of where the "do-over" should begin! After all, "we" have spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives forcing this so-called democracy on people in other countries.

The best way to do it all over -- unless the sulky Obama and the braying Clinton, each of whom is absolutely unacceptable to many, many people, can both be persuaded simply to retire from presidential striving -- is for the delegates to meet in Denver, and keep casting ballots until the Democratic Party's nominee is JOHN EDWARDS.

Edwards would BE the nominee by now, except for having been out-spent 10-to-1 by Hillobama, and for having been alternately ridiculed and ignored by the snotty punditocracy and Democratic Party "leadership" who fear actual Democratic principles and practices.

Besides, circumstances alter cases: the new Depression has begun, and the country -- weakened by two terms under the fear-mongering right wing, needs a brilliant, steady leader who cares about the people. The cheap and cheesy machinations of the Hillobama teams already have shown that neither of them is really up to it.//

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 03/06/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 19 fans permalink

Then register with a party, or move to a state with open primaries. Duh. FL Dems have enough problems with repugs disenfranchising us, the last thing we need is to let them "help" choose our candidates!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 03/07/2008
- JumpyJack I'm a Fan of JumpyJack 3 fans permalink

Even if there is a do-over of these primaries, the results would likely be very close and would change little in terms of delegates, so I don't think it would be worth spending all that money - the party had better save it for the general election. In the end the delegates will have to be seated somehow, so a brokered compromise (like the one KQuark suggested) seems like a good idea. A do-over should be performed only if: 1) there is still no clear nominee at the end of the primary season, 2) the superdelegates agree to appoint the nominee according to the people's vote, and 3) the outcome of those states could actually make a difference (if they are less than like 10-20 delegates apart). OR, of course, if one of the candidates wants to pay for the do-over with his/her own money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:36 PM on 03/06/2008
- jsinclair I'm a Fan of jsinclair 14 fans permalink

But what about the principle? Voters in Michigan COULDN't vote (only one name "Clinton" was on the ballot). In Florida they knew it wouldn't count and no one campaigned.

What about all the voters that didn't bother because Dean already made it clear they WEREN'T ALLOWED to vote that early and spoil it for the other, designated states?

Should voters (and candidates) who FOLLOWED the rules be penalized for it by having the "illegitimate" election now be counted after all?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 03/06/2008
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