Dean Urges Do-Overs in Florida, Michigan

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JOAN LOWY | March 6, 2008 11:51 PM EST | AP

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Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean delivers a guest lecture to a class in comparative politics at Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H., in this May file photo. Dean urged Florida and Michigan party officials to come up with plans to repeat their presidential nominating contests so that their delegates can be counted. (AP Photo/Toby Talbot, FILE)

WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Florida and Michigan.

"It'll be a hellacious battle," said Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman who sits on the party's rule-making committee.

Before the primaries started, "Howard Dean had enough votes to get most everything he wanted. Now that this thing has gone as far as it has and the lines have formed according to candidates, I'm not sure how that vote would shake out now," said Fowler, who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Nonetheless, Fowler said, something has to be done, "the rules be damned," to seat delegates from states Democrats have to and can win in the general election. "We're going to forfeit those two big states? What kind of fools would we be," he said.

Officials in Michigan and Florida have shown renewed interest in holding repeat nominating contests, and Dean has urged party officials in both states to come up with plans for how that can be done so their delegates can be counted at the national convention in late August.

"All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated," Dean said Thursday during interviews on network and cable TV news programs.

Dean said the parties will have to pay for new contests.

"We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race," he said. The DNC offered to pay for an alternative contest in Florida last summer but was turned down, officials at the party say.

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Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, another of Clinton's supporters, also called for a new Florida primary, but paid for by the national party. Nelson and Dean spoke by telephone Thursday evening and Dean reiterated that the DNC will not pay for a new primary.

Cost may be a barrier. During a meeting Wednesday night among House Democrats from Florida and Michigan, Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida relayed estimates that another primary would cost the state between $22 million and $24 million, a vote-by-mail contest would cost at least $8 million and the bill for a caucus would be about $4 million, said Hastings spokesman David Goldenberg.

In Michigan, the cost could be as high as $10 million, depending on the type of contest, according to Democratic officials. Liz Boyd, a spokeswoman for Democratic Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, said Thursday evening that nothing had been ruled out but it was beginning to appear as if the cost and logistics may be insurmountable.

Republican Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said Thursday he would sign a bill for a new Democratic primary _ legislative approval is required _ but only if it was a last resort and only if the national party pays for it. But that seems unlikely, given Dean's insistence that he won't pay.

Top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair all now say they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. Officials in both states previously had insisted that the primaries held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated.

Clinton said she'd wait to see what proposals are put forward.

She won both contests, but no delegates. The results were meaningless since the elections violated national party rules. The DNC stripped both states of their delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates _ including Clinton and rival Barack Obama _ agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

"I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise anyone," Clinton said at a news conference Thursday. "Therefore I am still committed to seating their delegations, and I know they are working with the Democratic Party to determine how best to proceed."

She said it would be especially unfair to punish the 1.7 million Floridians who voted in the Democratic primary since the Republican-controlled Legislature and the state's Republican governor changed the date.

"They clearly believed that their votes would count, and I think that there has to be a way to make them count," Clinton said.

Obama said Thursday that the DNC should decide how to settle the dispute.

"I think it's important to make sure that people of Michigan and Florida feel as if they're part of this process and that they're heard. And we've just decided that we're going to play by whatever the rules the DNC has set forth," he told ABC News. "That's what we've done from the start.

"And I'll leave it up to the Democratic National Committee to make a decision about how to resolve it. But I certainly want to make sure that we've got Michigan and Florida delegates at the convention in some fashion," Obama said.

He said the DNC also should decide how to pay for any new contest.

Florida and Michigan moved up their contests to protest the party's decision to allow Iowa and New Hampshire to go first, followed by South Carolina and Nevada.

"The rules were set a year and a half ago," Dean said. "Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."

___

Associated Press writers Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., Tim Martin in Lansing, Mich., and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Fla., contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Flor...
WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Flor...
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- zitlight73 I'm a Fan of zitlight73 43 fans permalink

Let's have a do-over of 2000 and 2004.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 PM on 03/06/2008

Are Michigan and Florida open or closed primaries?

If they are open you're going to have a meaningless result if you let every republican in the state to go out and vote for the weakest Democratic candidate on the ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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BOTTOM LINE SOLUTION WHO AGREES?

The only fair compromise is if you are going to seat the FL and MI delegates through a brokered compromise is to do what the Republicans did when FL and MI jumped the gun. Strip each state of 50% of their delegates. I don't know why Howard Dean did not do this in the first place. It still penalizes these states for moving their primaries forward but still give the voters a voice. I don't here any Republican voters crying about this compromise.

Give Hillary and Obama a 50/50 split in MI totally 50% of the delegates.

Give Hillary and Obama half the delegates they got in FL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:15 PM on 03/06/2008
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I like it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 03/06/2008

This seems to be the only fair and reasonable solution. You can't just give it to Hillary when she had agreed to the same rules as Obama, but then later decided to violate her previous commitment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 03/06/2008
- ArchAngel I'm a Fan of ArchAngel 14 fans permalink

With every passing day, Billary reminds me more and more of Tonya Harding. (Cry baby victim skater who had skater Nancy Kerrigan attacked.)

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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Everyone has lost total perspective in these ongoing arguments. Hillary had all the advantages in the world going into this nomination and she blew it because of a terrible campaign. All she has won is the base of the Democratic Party which are going to vote for any Democrat in the Fall. These lines about Obama not closing the deal are utter nonsense. He closed the gap or increased his lead in EVERY primary or caucus. He was never expected to get past Super Tuesday but the people have shown they are tired of the old zealous partisanship that Hillary gives the Democratic Party.

There is no doubt that Obama will have a much better chance than Hillary in the general. In EVERY poll Obama does better than Hillary versus McCrazy.

IT'S THE INDEPENDENTS STUPID.

Independents have decided every elections since Reagan. Hillary has minimal pull of independence because she is such a partisan monster. Both Obama and McCrazy pull much of their support from independents voting in their primaries or caucuses. Even Republicans know it is all about the Independents, that's one main reason Romney and Huckleberry were rejected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 03/06/2008
- hank48188 I'm a Fan of hank48188 8 fans permalink

If the MSM showed the same dirty laundry from the last week a year ago Obama never would have happened, many of his supporters thought he had clean hands but now they are learning and defecting. Lets see how his fundraising goes this week.......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 03/06/2008
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she won't be able to duck the "biased" media on these issues:
Burkle-Clinton-Dubai/Clinton-Giustra-Kazakhstan.
http://emirateseconomist.blogspot.com/2008/01/burkle-clinton-dubai.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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A Clinton supporter should not bring integrity into the mix with all the Clinton scandals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 03/06/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 35 fans permalink

To be more accurate,it's the moderates stupid. And Obama will be demolished in that area by McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 03/06/2008
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Obama- has to get through to Pennsylvania in a very big way-

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 03/06/2008
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Go to math school, he doesn't have to win Pennsylvania, Hillary by the way has to win the next 12 States by margins of 20 points or more and get all the super delegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 03/06/2008

Jonathan Alter of Newsweek says by a margin of 23 points now so the climb has actually gotten steeper for Hillary. Hillary is the one who has to get through PA in a big way, but hopefully she will have a "big win" in the way she had one in Texas. LOL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 03/06/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 89 fans permalink
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If this were strictly a deductive numbers matter, then Hillary wouldn't have just raised 5 million in one day. There is a realpolitik dynamic to this, as well. If enough super delegates start scratching their heads and wondering if Obama's caucus cannot be replicated in a secret-ballot general election, especially given Hillary's domination in the biggest states, then it will matter if she takes PA as strongly as she did Ohio. The coming weeks will tell that story, not a calculator.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 03/06/2008
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"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.” attributed to Joseph Stalin. Question for Obamanics: What "exactly" did the VOTERS (not Howard Dean or the DNC) of Michigan and Florida do to have there votes thrown in the trash? Do we keep doing the "Do-Overs" until Barack wins or what?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 03/06/2008
- mingusman I'm a Fan of mingusman 8 fans permalink
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Hey, Jack. Hillary's the one bitching about the MI and FL votes, not Obama. Dean's just trying to shut her up but be fair about it. How the hell is this about Obama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 03/06/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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It's the negative slant. Nothing is positive to the Clinton camp. Everything is negative about the "enemy."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 03/06/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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You don't think he'd be the one "bitching" if HE'D won 60% of the vote?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 03/07/2008

What "exactly" the voters did in Michigan and Florida was to challenge the agreement every state party and every candidate made with the DNC and move their primary dates. Oh, the voters didn't do it? Well, hold your state parties accountable then, not the DNC or the other 48 states who abied by the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:30 PM on 03/06/2008
- cadawa I'm a Fan of cadawa 22 fans permalink
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It's no secret the DLC wants to run Clinton and they are going to do everything in their power to make her the nominee including but not limited to ignoring the will of the voters. Superdelegates and voting machines that can't count are part of the picture.
You didn't have the right to disenfranchise voters in the first place and I don't think you are concerned about that. I think this idea has more to do with Clinton's falling behind than fairness.
If she's the nominee, I'm going to sit this one out. If we are going to have four more years of bad government, we're going to have it without my consent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 03/06/2008
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NOTE: Both of these candidates are DLC-to-the-bone.

By all means support the one you prefer, but please do not be under any illusion that either of these two candidates are anything but DLC, no matter how well one may speak.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 PM on 03/06/2008
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Obama: $55 million raised in February:

One million+ donors, bottom up campaign financing, what a concept!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 03/06/2008

It's the grass roots v. the insiders, and if we don't prevail this time, we are sunk. They would probably pass some rule or law that said only x% of a candidate's financing could come from the grass roots. Our last chance at true democracy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 03/06/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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Maybe Obama can use some of that money to pay for the re-do's. He IS the one who ran campaign ads in FL, after all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 03/07/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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"We have to get party politics to represent the people in the party, not the money in the party."

Good quote today from Randi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 03/06/2008
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Randi also said:: "Big money from lot's of small donors" (or something like that...) Iove Randi.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 03/06/2008
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It's a tough call. Of course we all want ALL the votes to count. As an Obama supporter I'm all about grassroots democracy. The problem here is how do we accomplish fairness for the voters and fairness for BOTH candidates?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 03/06/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 89 fans permalink
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One thing's for sure: it's inconsistent to invoke the principle of "Control by party elite is wrong" when it comes to the possibility of super delegates deciding for hillary, yet at the same time punish the citizens of Florida and Michigan for the choices of the party elite.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 03/06/2008
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we can't force super delegates to do anything. They are by definition, freelancers (a dangerous situation in my view) Still, if the super delegates promote Hillary over Obama if he has the pledged delegate lead going into the convention there will be a serious reaction the extent of which I can only guess at at this point. In other words there will be consequences if SD overrides the popular vote, that's just a fact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 03/06/2008

A re-vote is the only fair way to handle the problem in Florida and Michigan. Since Senator Obama wants to be fair and he collected $55 Million in February, why doesn't he pay for it? He should be eager to so he can get his name on the ballot in Michigan and be able to campaign in Florida.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 PM on 03/06/2008
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OMG your being silly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:05 PM on 03/06/2008
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Hillary's collecting a Million a day, why doesn't she pay for it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

Because Florida and Michigan agreed to the rules saying they'd pay for it...Way back before they broke the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 03/06/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink
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"...campaign in Florida again".

Fixed that for ya

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 03/07/2008

BREAKING NOW:

NEW RASMUSSEN POLL:

Pennsylvania Democratic Presidential Primary:

Clinton 52% Obama 37%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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ouch

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 03/06/2008
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what did you expect? still won't do any good... it's the Algebra ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 03/06/2008
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 89 fans permalink
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If this were only a matter for a calculator, then Clinton wouldn't have just taken 5 million in one day. There is political dynamic to the super delegates' decision making: if enough of them worry that the Caucus King won't do quite as well on a secret ballot in the general against McCain, then they most certainly will move to Hillary. The next few weeks will tell the story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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I want him to do better in states like PA and OH. I want him to win those states in the general.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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PA is an old Democratic machine state with the PA governor pulling a Jeb Bush for Clinton so no surprise here. It is just another uphill battle for Obama where again he has to prove himself to voters while Hillary does not. Obama will probably lose by 5-10 points in the end. Hillary will again claim the election on her "narrative" argument and still be behind in delegates. Same old story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 03/06/2008

Michigan and Florida should have a 'do-over.'

It does not have to be a primary. It does not have to be a caucus.

Send a SASE (self-addressed stamped envelope) to every registered democratic voter in each state with a ballot. That ballot should have the candidates’ names on it and be machine readable. Yes, basically an absentee ballot, but for everyone.

This is a far less expensive option than a primary, and a far more inclusive process than a caucus. Stop over thinking Michigan and Florida, and let's hear what they have to say.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 03/06/2008
- huffposeur I'm a Fan of huffposeur 22 fans permalink

HUH??!!
are you serious?
Even sending a ballot to people who actually voted would be subject to rampant fraud. sending a ballot to every registered democrat is a surefire way to NOT conduct a free and fair election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 03/06/2008
- basta I'm a Fan of basta 6 fans permalink

great idea. Send an email to Howard Dean.

http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/chairman

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 03/06/2008
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sure, give me a hundred thousand copies...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 03/06/2008
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There are some excellent points made here, in between all the Bushit

posts from trolls who only want to distract and wish US no good at all.

Let's just give Hillary a few net delegates gained and seat the Mi. & Fl.

delegations based on compromise and move forward. Make it simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 03/06/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

I think that makes a lot more sense than a "do over."

There's not a fair apporach that I've seen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 03/06/2008
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To any Democrat opposing any solution to the FL/MI delegate other than an outright refusal to seat the current slate, I have two questions:

1. Yes, FL and MI held primaries in violation of DNC rules, but the people, more specifically the voters in those states had little or no say in when those primaries were held. And those same voters will have the right to vote in November's general election. It is highly likely that MI or FL or both will be crucial to any party winning the White House in November. Do you really want to go into a general election with a Democratic nominee in which the voters of FL and MI have had no say? That would likely hand those two states to John McCain and, as a result, the White House. Adamant refusal to give FL or MI a voice is simply not a wise poltical choice.

2. I agree that the current FL/MI delegates were selected in violation of DNC rules. And I agree those slates should not be seated. But where in the DNC rules does it expressly prohibit MI or FL from conducting a second caucus or primary that complies with DNC rules? I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but if the DNC rules do not expressly prohibit a second primary or caucus, I can't agree with the argument that allowing second primaries would violate DNC rules.

Allowing the people of FL and MI a voice in who the Democratic nominee is a necessity. Denying them a voice is likely to cause those states to go Republican in November. ot acceptable to any Democrat. And no, allowing some puppet FL or MI delegations to express their opinion only after a nominee has been selected is not the same as giving them a genuine voice. The people of FL and MI must be part of the process in selecting the Democratic nominee or the Democrats risk losing in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 03/06/2008
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"the football field is 100 yards long... no wait it's 150 yards long, wait...were playing hockey... " no changing mid stream"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 03/06/2008
- basta I'm a Fan of basta 6 fans permalink

Of course we all want the democratic system to work and for everybody who wants to to get their vote. However, the Florida and Michigan primaries were not carried out within the proper process and therefore do not represent democracy. Revotes or caucuses in these States is now a neccessity.

I suggest that in 2012, the primaries be held across the nation on one day, preferably in June. And only registered Democrats may participate. And no superdelegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 03/06/2008
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I support 5 regional primaries, 10 states each across a 5 week period to allow for ebb and flow and the normal course of campaigning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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That is so ridiculous it would just give the nomination to the person with the most name recognition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:51 PM on 03/06/2008
- raptor I'm a Fan of raptor 7 fans permalink

Let's run the feature race the racetrack, see who wins, then run it again.

The Florida primary was then. This is now. Things have changed. What if they gave a primary and nobody campaigned or advertised? Would the results be like a wtness who actually tells the truth or a truly impartial jury?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 03/06/2008
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