Dean Urges Do-Overs in Florida, Michigan

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JOAN LOWY | March 6, 2008 11:51 PM EST | AP

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Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean delivers a guest lecture to a class in comparative politics at Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H., in this May file photo. Dean urged Florida and Michigan party officials to come up with plans to repeat their presidential nominating contests so that their delegates can be counted. (AP Photo/Toby Talbot, FILE)

WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Florida and Michigan.

"It'll be a hellacious battle," said Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman who sits on the party's rule-making committee.

Before the primaries started, "Howard Dean had enough votes to get most everything he wanted. Now that this thing has gone as far as it has and the lines have formed according to candidates, I'm not sure how that vote would shake out now," said Fowler, who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Nonetheless, Fowler said, something has to be done, "the rules be damned," to seat delegates from states Democrats have to and can win in the general election. "We're going to forfeit those two big states? What kind of fools would we be," he said.

Officials in Michigan and Florida have shown renewed interest in holding repeat nominating contests, and Dean has urged party officials in both states to come up with plans for how that can be done so their delegates can be counted at the national convention in late August.

"All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated," Dean said Thursday during interviews on network and cable TV news programs.

Dean said the parties will have to pay for new contests.

"We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race," he said. The DNC offered to pay for an alternative contest in Florida last summer but was turned down, officials at the party say.

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Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, another of Clinton's supporters, also called for a new Florida primary, but paid for by the national party. Nelson and Dean spoke by telephone Thursday evening and Dean reiterated that the DNC will not pay for a new primary.

Cost may be a barrier. During a meeting Wednesday night among House Democrats from Florida and Michigan, Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida relayed estimates that another primary would cost the state between $22 million and $24 million, a vote-by-mail contest would cost at least $8 million and the bill for a caucus would be about $4 million, said Hastings spokesman David Goldenberg.

In Michigan, the cost could be as high as $10 million, depending on the type of contest, according to Democratic officials. Liz Boyd, a spokeswoman for Democratic Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, said Thursday evening that nothing had been ruled out but it was beginning to appear as if the cost and logistics may be insurmountable.

Republican Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said Thursday he would sign a bill for a new Democratic primary _ legislative approval is required _ but only if it was a last resort and only if the national party pays for it. But that seems unlikely, given Dean's insistence that he won't pay.

Top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair all now say they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. Officials in both states previously had insisted that the primaries held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated.

Clinton said she'd wait to see what proposals are put forward.

She won both contests, but no delegates. The results were meaningless since the elections violated national party rules. The DNC stripped both states of their delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates _ including Clinton and rival Barack Obama _ agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

"I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise anyone," Clinton said at a news conference Thursday. "Therefore I am still committed to seating their delegations, and I know they are working with the Democratic Party to determine how best to proceed."

She said it would be especially unfair to punish the 1.7 million Floridians who voted in the Democratic primary since the Republican-controlled Legislature and the state's Republican governor changed the date.

"They clearly believed that their votes would count, and I think that there has to be a way to make them count," Clinton said.

Obama said Thursday that the DNC should decide how to settle the dispute.

"I think it's important to make sure that people of Michigan and Florida feel as if they're part of this process and that they're heard. And we've just decided that we're going to play by whatever the rules the DNC has set forth," he told ABC News. "That's what we've done from the start.

"And I'll leave it up to the Democratic National Committee to make a decision about how to resolve it. But I certainly want to make sure that we've got Michigan and Florida delegates at the convention in some fashion," Obama said.

He said the DNC also should decide how to pay for any new contest.

Florida and Michigan moved up their contests to protest the party's decision to allow Iowa and New Hampshire to go first, followed by South Carolina and Nevada.

"The rules were set a year and a half ago," Dean said. "Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."

___

Associated Press writers Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., Tim Martin in Lansing, Mich., and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Fla., contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Flor...
WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Flor...
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Obama played by the rules while Clinton left her name on the ballot. Do you really think that 238,000 uncommitted votes to Hillary's 328,000 votes is a victory. Hillary couldn't care less about any Michigan resident. You're simply a vehicle to the nomination. I don't think she counted on Dean calling her bluff. While she might win Florida she'll never win Michigan and she'll have no wiggle room for Whining about Democratic rules she was fully aware of in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 03/06/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

Hogwash Obama did not play by teh rules. he was the ONLY candidate to cheat and run ads in Florida.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 PM on 03/06/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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How come Hill's name was on the ballot in MI?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:31 PM on 03/06/2008
- JohnKemp I'm a Fan of JohnKemp 26 fans permalink

To All Mi & FL Dem Voters:

Once again, our stated intention has produced the ass-opposite result. We've never failed to do so yet.

Our intentions were good & we meant well, but as with ethanol, higher taxes, affirmative action, the welfare state, public education, the current housing scam & other boondoggles many times too numerous to mention here, we have created one big damn mess.

Obviously, the solution to the problem is to have the federal government bail us out, and for the hard-working, tax-paying honest Americans in those states that "played by the rules" to foot the bill for our upcoming re-dos.

We know that we can count on you Dems to support this additional tax on other Americans, as you have never failed to do so in the past, and we assure you that an upcoming "earmark" is destined for the next appropriations bill to cover this $40 million dollar expense.

Or is it $80 million? Never mind, whatever.

Signed,

The Scream
Shrillary
Barry

cc: Nancy Pelosi, the "Queen" of Earmarks

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 03/06/2008
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Let Florida and Michigan Governors pay for the redos. They both new the rules beforehand, and decided anyway to sign off and allow the primaries to be moved up. They are so arrogant and it is so obvious what they are trying to do Florida's governor to cause trouble and Michigan's to help her friend Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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I have no problem with running low cost caucuses but primaries are too expensive.

Everyone keeps on missing the same points.

First the results of a new primary will not mean anything in terms of the delegate count because there is no way that she could win either contest by more than 10 points. Edwards is out so people the Florida results will be much closer. While Michigan is probably a toss up.

Second a primary would be just another huge waste of Democratic money and time that could be used in the contest versus McCrazy, you know the real enemy. The Democratic nomination reminds me of the war in Iraq at this point. The real war is the war against McCrazy, like the war in Afghanistan. There is no way that Clinton can win the nomination even if FL and MI re-vote. The Democratic nomination has become a huge distraction that has given the Democratic party a black eye around the country, just like Iraq gave us a huge black eye around the world. I'm not implying that the nomination process is anything near as bad a disaster as the Iraq war but there are some parallels.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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We are having serious problems in this country concerning election integrity and the respect for the vote. I think the attitude that votes should only be counted when it's convenient or when some desired result will occur is very dangerous to democracy. We've had a lot of trouble in Florida and Ohio, and this year in Los Angeles. We need another voting rights movement to address black box voting, caging, intimidation, and a host of other problems.

That's why I think this is important. The voter needs to be respected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

That's why Granholm is considering a caucus. And instead of Hillary supporters screaming about it, they should email Granholm and Crist and scream that they should have followed their own rules in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 03/06/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

A caucus would be a disaster. All it will do is make the millions of people who voted in the original primary but can't make the caucus even more alienated and irate and willing to switch their support to McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 03/06/2008
- swanky I'm a Fan of swanky 6 fans permalink

Why in the world would Charlie Crist do anything for any Democrat? He and the FL legislature did it on purpose.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 03/06/2008
- Oldtt I'm a Fan of Oldtt 36 fans permalink
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Therefore, based on your argument why not just cancel all remaining Dem primaries plus the convention itself and just annoint Barack? That would save lots of money for the GE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 03/06/2008
- KQuark I'm a Fan of KQuark 267 fans permalink
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No I am saying the calendar is long enough and enough money will be wasted in Hillary's "narrative" nomination campaign. Since she has no chance to win the pledge delegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 03/06/2008

There should be no do-over. The rules were set. The players can either play the game as defined or quit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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It's not the voters' fault that the state party and national party messed up. This primary should be about the voters, not the party machinery.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 03/06/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 640 fans permalink
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It would also be a good idea for FLA voters to take some responsibility for the State leaders they are putting in office. It's not like this is the first time we have seen slimy tactics out of FLA's leaders. Get out there and make some changes in your state govt.

Mine is not perfect, far from it. We in CA need to get Dianne Feinstein out of the Senate ASAP. But it is the job of the voters to hold their State reps responsible.

Just take it out of the Governor's personal finances. There you go.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:06 PM on 03/06/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

It is not even the Democrat's fault in Florida. The Republicans set the date and ignored the DNC's rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 03/07/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

The option for a re-vote is a part of the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 03/06/2008
- DofG I'm a Fan of DofG 48 fans permalink
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One of the great tragedies of the American collective is this notion that we can always, not transmute, but circumvent Cause and Effect! Our country, unfortunately, has a long history of putting actions in motion, only to have them returned, unwanted. Then, we pretend as if these long term, nearly inextinguishable effects, have origins unassociated with our past actions e.g. most of our troubles around the world. We can pretend all we want. But the past never dies!

This Florida/Michigan "should now re-vote revelation" is no different. It, like the DNC primary system, is just people playing games to "give" power to, or deny power to someone it thinks should not have it. Now, because of these unforseen circumstances, we want to now say that a rule, is not a rule: just like FISA, just like the idea that we should not attack other countries without provocation, and just like the notion that the president cannot claim powers without the consent of the govern, or their mostly corrupt proxies.

We must ask ourselves, what is this really about? If Florida/Michigan knew the rules, why break them in the first place? Are not the people, who broke the rules responsible? This is not rocket science. This is about children wanting to have their cake and eat it too, in light of a new circumstance, an "effect" that no one saw coming! We suppose to be the "Children of the Enlightenment" not the the "Children of the Corn"!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 03/06/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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Sadly we live in an age where accountability has gone out the window. Bye bye.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 03/06/2008
- AC500 I'm a Fan of AC500 5 fans permalink

The world is watching and shaking their heads at the continued idiocy of Americans. She lost. If she takes it now its a steal. She's living off of her own rhetoric like someone else the world is all too familiar with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:18 PM on 03/06/2008
- dr4Will I'm a Fan of dr4Will 10 fans permalink
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bullshit--we people in Michigan already voted--obama didn't think we mattered and now is trying to enter by the backdoor--Dean is a fruitcake and obama lover!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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You're not even from Michigan, or you would know that the candidates were asked to sign a pledge to remove their names from the ballot, in accordance with national party rules. Clinton and Kucinich chose to break those rules. So what you're saying is, punish the people who played by the rules.

Get real.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 03/06/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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Wow. How can you be so uninformed? The entire party agreed to take their names off of the ballot in MI. Only Hillary went back on it.

Do you like ballots with just one choice on them? Perhaps Castro?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 03/06/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

WLA - you're a little mixed up there. Research it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 03/07/2008
- biglover I'm a Fan of biglover 42 fans permalink

dr4Will. You are exactly what's wrong with america. You are uninformed and ignorant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 03/06/2008

Obama played by the rules while Clinton left her name on the ballot. Do you really think that 238,000 uncommitted votes to Hillary's 328,000 votes is a victory. Hillary couldn't care less about any Michigan resident. You're simply a vehicle to the nomination. I don't think she counted on Dean calling her bluff. While she might win Florida she'll never win Michigan and she'll have no wiggle room for Whining about Democratic rules she was fully aware of in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 03/06/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Clinton leaving her name on the Michigan ballot. Kucinich did too. The other candidates weren't exactly being virtuous. Iowa was miffed because Michigan was threatening to steal their thunder. The candidates were just scrambling to show the good folks in Iowa how much they were loved by self-righteously dropping off the Michigan ballot. I think they call it pandering. The Obama campaign then pushed to get Michigan voters to vote for "uncommitted", which many of them did.

If you think Obama was playing by the rules when he removed his name from the ballot in Michigan, do you think he was breaking the rules when he left his name on the ballot in Florida? Can't have it both ways.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 AM on 03/07/2008
- Groobiecat I'm a Fan of Groobiecat 10 fans permalink

Yeah, you're really misinformed about how this process was hammered out. Do your research before you post. Actually, never mind--inane comments like "Dean is a fruitcake and obama lover" indicate that you probably just shouldn't post at all...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 03/06/2008

A Not Unlikely Nightmare Electoral Scenario for the Democrats:

If Florida and Michigan have a redo election (which seems to be the talk now), there is a good possibility that by June 8 Obama will come out with more pledged delegates and Hillary with more overall popular votes.
So, what do the super-delegates supposed to do? Go with the popular vote, with the most pledged delegates, their state, their congressional district, their consciousness, or what’s good for the party?

Puerto Rico on June 7, with 67 electoral votes may become critical to the race. Hispanics break for Hillary 2 to1 but Puerto Rico is a bit like a foreign country, and most foreign lands (except, I assume, Isla Mujeres in Mexico) favor Obama 100 to1 and the Governor of the island is pro-Obama and said that he will use the Party machine to make sure Obama wins.

In what language do you campaign in Puerto Rico anyways? Perfect place to end the race, the candidates and their entourage will be ready for a vacation at that point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 03/06/2008
- apduncan1 I'm a Fan of apduncan1 42 fans permalink
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You campaign in PR in Spanish but that is moot; the winner is decided by the ones that count the votes. Isn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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Then Obama better get his team down to FL and up to MI and do some aggressive campaigning. That's all I can say.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 03/06/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

Bet he regrets making fun of the Floridan "Beauty Contestants" right about now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

What makes you think that will be the outcome?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 03/06/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

Puerto Rico has a large Hispanic population and is expected to go heavily for Clinton.

But that's not the point. Superdelegates were created in the first place to step in in situations just like this. They have no obligation, moral or otherwise, to follow any trend. They are supposed to act as wise party elders and vote their conscience. Which, presumably, they will do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 03/07/2008

Guess what. With a re-do, the FL and MI super delegates will be allowed back into the process now. I looked it up. Between the two states, there are 21 Super delegates that will be added back in.

Guess who these 21 additional super delegates will be very happy with for fighting for their rights to be seated at the convention?

that's 21 more super delegates for Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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She's not fighting for a revote. She fighting to use the results of illegal primaries to her own advantage. Pretty tacky. Just as tacky—that Obama won't support a re-vote.

These two have got to get their heads in the right place on this. Both are wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 03/06/2008
- Groobiecat I'm a Fan of Groobiecat 10 fans permalink

How do you figure? Obama is playing by the rules that all signed--including Hillary. She's the one trying to overturn the agreement--read the original posting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 03/06/2008

Not quite; Wexler has stated that he would vote for Obama if Florida were seated....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 03/06/2008

do you think florida will pay for a re-do? And the whole state of michigan is for sale-are they going to pony up for a re-do? HIGHLY UNLIKELY, unless hillary pays for it @ $25 mil per which would totally bankrupt her campaign tick tock tick tock...was trying to get my inauguation tickets yesterday online for barack ..very confident of his victory over hil and mc

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 03/06/2008
- wyntka I'm a Fan of wyntka 2 fans permalink

As a Michigan Dem, I was very frustrated by the non-primary, and so made a brief journey over to "the dark side" and voted for McCain in order to subvert the then-dominant Romney campain. I did this only because I was denied the opportunity to vote for the candidate that has me more hopeful than ever before: Barack Obama. I don't dislike Clinton, but she's not my first choice, and if they just give her the MI delegates as though she had "won" this state, I will be majorly disenfranchised. So yes: redux, redo, do-over, mulligan, whatever. Otherwise I'm voting for Pat Paulsen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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Definitely. I want your vote to count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 03/06/2008
- WLA I'm a Fan of WLA 323 fans permalink
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McKinney 08!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 03/06/2008

not the mckinney thrown out of house of representatives and eventually thrown out thru the voters

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 03/06/2008

You voted for the Republicans' strongest nominee over their weakest? Thanks a lot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 03/06/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

Junior - at the point in time wyntka is talking about, Romney was a very strong candidate. And he would have been a disaster. I would have done the same thing wyntka did just to get Romney out of the race.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:19 AM on 03/07/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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Barack would do himself a BIG favor by coming out in support of a re-vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

Agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 03/06/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

He would be doing the system a favor, no matter how the vote turned out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 AM on 03/07/2008
- Felicty I'm a Fan of Felicty 31 fans permalink
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So, when Hillary doesn't like the results of the do-over, will we have to do another one until she wins?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 03/06/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1600 fans permalink
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No.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 03/06/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 496 fans permalink
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It's not about the results. It's about the PROCESS. For those of us who care about fairness and care about the voices of people in FL and MI, this is the best solution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 03/06/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

Well, we could always use the original. Seems it's only Obama zealots worried about actual votes and not ice cream parlor straw polls.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 03/06/2008
- msmaggie I'm a Fan of msmaggie 10 fans permalink

No. The Obama people need to think this through--if they resist Florida and Michigan seating delegates, it really makes their case against super delegates ultimately deciding this thing sound a bit hollow. They need to support, and win, the do-overs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 03/06/2008

Who's on the real human team? Karl Rove.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 03/06/2008

Ok, real human...

What criteria are you using to weed out the bad posts?

Off-topic?

Attacks?

BS?

Curious people need to know.

Damn, I wish it'd stop raining.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 03/06/2008

HOWAR DEAN? I BET HE'D LIKE TO DO 2004 OVER AGAIN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 03/06/2008
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