Dean Urges Do-Overs in Florida, Michigan

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JOAN LOWY | March 6, 2008 11:51 PM EST | AP

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Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean delivers a guest lecture to a class in comparative politics at Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H., in this May file photo. Dean urged Florida and Michigan party officials to come up with plans to repeat their presidential nominating contests so that their delegates can be counted. (AP Photo/Toby Talbot, FILE)

WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Florida and Michigan.

"It'll be a hellacious battle," said Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman who sits on the party's rule-making committee.

Before the primaries started, "Howard Dean had enough votes to get most everything he wanted. Now that this thing has gone as far as it has and the lines have formed according to candidates, I'm not sure how that vote would shake out now," said Fowler, who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Nonetheless, Fowler said, something has to be done, "the rules be damned," to seat delegates from states Democrats have to and can win in the general election. "We're going to forfeit those two big states? What kind of fools would we be," he said.

Officials in Michigan and Florida have shown renewed interest in holding repeat nominating contests, and Dean has urged party officials in both states to come up with plans for how that can be done so their delegates can be counted at the national convention in late August.

"All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated," Dean said Thursday during interviews on network and cable TV news programs.

Dean said the parties will have to pay for new contests.

"We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race," he said. The DNC offered to pay for an alternative contest in Florida last summer but was turned down, officials at the party say.

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Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, another of Clinton's supporters, also called for a new Florida primary, but paid for by the national party. Nelson and Dean spoke by telephone Thursday evening and Dean reiterated that the DNC will not pay for a new primary.

Cost may be a barrier. During a meeting Wednesday night among House Democrats from Florida and Michigan, Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida relayed estimates that another primary would cost the state between $22 million and $24 million, a vote-by-mail contest would cost at least $8 million and the bill for a caucus would be about $4 million, said Hastings spokesman David Goldenberg.

In Michigan, the cost could be as high as $10 million, depending on the type of contest, according to Democratic officials. Liz Boyd, a spokeswoman for Democratic Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, said Thursday evening that nothing had been ruled out but it was beginning to appear as if the cost and logistics may be insurmountable.

Republican Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said Thursday he would sign a bill for a new Democratic primary _ legislative approval is required _ but only if it was a last resort and only if the national party pays for it. But that seems unlikely, given Dean's insistence that he won't pay.

Top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair all now say they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. Officials in both states previously had insisted that the primaries held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated.

Clinton said she'd wait to see what proposals are put forward.

She won both contests, but no delegates. The results were meaningless since the elections violated national party rules. The DNC stripped both states of their delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates _ including Clinton and rival Barack Obama _ agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

"I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise anyone," Clinton said at a news conference Thursday. "Therefore I am still committed to seating their delegations, and I know they are working with the Democratic Party to determine how best to proceed."

She said it would be especially unfair to punish the 1.7 million Floridians who voted in the Democratic primary since the Republican-controlled Legislature and the state's Republican governor changed the date.

"They clearly believed that their votes would count, and I think that there has to be a way to make them count," Clinton said.

Obama said Thursday that the DNC should decide how to settle the dispute.

"I think it's important to make sure that people of Michigan and Florida feel as if they're part of this process and that they're heard. And we've just decided that we're going to play by whatever the rules the DNC has set forth," he told ABC News. "That's what we've done from the start.

"And I'll leave it up to the Democratic National Committee to make a decision about how to resolve it. But I certainly want to make sure that we've got Michigan and Florida delegates at the convention in some fashion," Obama said.

He said the DNC also should decide how to pay for any new contest.

Florida and Michigan moved up their contests to protest the party's decision to allow Iowa and New Hampshire to go first, followed by South Carolina and Nevada.

"The rules were set a year and a half ago," Dean said. "Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."

___

Associated Press writers Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., Tim Martin in Lansing, Mich., and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Fla., contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Flor...
WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for do-over presidential nomination contests in Flor...
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- JohnKemp I'm a Fan of JohnKemp 26 fans permalink

Dems, damn.

They just refuse to "get it."

The Dem Party is corrupt fromt he ground-floor on up.

Super-delegates, vote buying, vote selling, keeping polls open, the Nevade "caucas," now the Texas "caucas," MI & FL being "kicked out" & now being "welcomed back."

What's next? Oh yeah, Pennsylvanie under the direction of Fast Eddie Rendell, surely one of the most corrupt states in the US along with other Dem strongholds in NJ & IL.

Beautiful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 03/06/2008
- Superbus I'm a Fan of Superbus 27 fans permalink
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Things are really getting mean spirited. Politico.com is reporting that Howard Wolfson is accusing the Obama campaign of "Ken Starr Tactics"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 03/06/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 634 fans permalink
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I believe the children are the future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 03/06/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 634 fans permalink
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That was the first of my 10 posts that went through, I love children, I love Arianna, I love 1984.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 03/06/2008
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I always liked George Orwell myself, now that you mention it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 03/06/2008

I was wondering what that was all about...I thought maybe they were the symptoms of an "illegal smile."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 03/06/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1600 fans permalink
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and children is learning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 03/06/2008

Are you implying old men are the past?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 03/06/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 634 fans permalink
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Monkeys behaving badly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 03/06/2008
- phroso I'm a Fan of phroso 5 fans permalink

Just don't get them vaccinated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 03/06/2008
- richard5 I'm a Fan of richard5 12 fans permalink

These people including the Hillary camp who wants the votes in Michigan and Florida to count are simply disingeneous at best, and says a lot about their character and the character. How could it be possible fair to Obama to have the votes counted in either states when these states were not contested by agreement? This is underhandedness and dirty politics at it's best.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

It won't happen that way. Dean has clearly said that FL and MI can either work with the DNC to find a fair way to re-assign delegates and have them counted, or thay can accept responsibility and the consequences of their decision to break the rules they'd previously agreed to, and that everyone else managed to follow.

I think I had that same conversation (swapping a few details, like 'DNC' with 'your sister' and 'delegates' with 'jelly beans') with the kids I babysat in high school. Ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 03/06/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 20 fans permalink

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/01/29/Columns/Sorry_for_not_being__.shtml

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 03/06/2008
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HuffPo is delaying posts because Bill O'Riley called her site a "cesspool" LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 03/06/2008
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They should hold a Caucus. And if the Clinton's object, have the party elders, Carter, Hart, Gore, Kennedy and Jackson, back it up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 03/06/2008
- in4success I'm a Fan of in4success 43 fans permalink

they're screaming and pounding they're fists to have the FL and MI delegates seated without a do-over...­.

bahahahaha­hahaha!!!!­!!!!

btw, times square explosion was FALSE-FLAG theatrical stunt. saw the video and it was a pyrotechnical blast all beautiful white smoke and no bite.

almost comical.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 03/06/2008
- Oldtt I'm a Fan of Oldtt 36 fans permalink
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Caucuses by their nature are less representative of popular opinion than all-day primaries where everyone has a fairer chance to vote. Why push for a method that specifically benefits Barack? Also, any primary should be open to registered Democrats only. If they include an opportunity for voters to register - or re-register - as Democrats, they should include a mechanism that such registrations will carry over through at least through the next closed primary to discourage deliberate tampering with the process by partisan operatives. Since this issue directly impacts both Obama and Clinton, maybe they might consider putting up some campaign funds to help with financing do-over primaries. I have a feeling that Howard Dean's statements about not using Dem campaign funds is a bargaining chip with state legislatures who should be paying costs to undo damage they caused by moving up their own state primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 03/06/2008

Why not an election? What part of leaving a decision to all qualified party voters through a new election do you fear? The problem seems to be generated by the ridiculous rules of the DNC to boost the narrow interests of a few hundred thousand votes in Iowa. Inasmuch as they disenfranchised 10 million citizens to create the problem, the DNC should fund the remedy--right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 03/06/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

No. Those voters have been disenfranchised by their own governors, who chose to break the rules they'd previously agreed to. They knew what the consequences would be, they knew they'd be responsible for the cost of any re-vote... They just didn't think the DNC would follow through.

If you listen to Howard Dean's interview on NPR yesterday (I posted the link in a previous comment), he explains that the DNC was concerned not over Iowa's influence, but South Carolina's. (Florida was always going to be after Iowa. It's South Carolina that they jumped in line.) He explains the logic behind the primary schedule (which, again, Florida and Michigan approved), and I think that while it is admittedly far from a perfect system, what they were trying to do makes a lot of sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 03/06/2008
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My idea: seat the delegates from both FL and MI as is, per the proportional distribution, but to not add the popular vote to the total because of the unfair pre-primary rules. Hillary gets her delegates, Obama still wins.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 03/06/2008
- ched I'm a Fan of ched 10 fans permalink
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If FL and MI want a say in this matter, they'd better get moving. After Obama wins PA, it's over, so they'll need to have done something by then. If their plans call for something later than that, or possibly the date of IN and NC, that only helps Repubs. Unacceptable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 03/06/2008
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"After Obama wins PA" You must clean up at the casinos.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 03/06/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 33 fans permalink

well, he did so well in Ohio, a state almost identical to PA, how could you not reach that conclusion?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 03/06/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 634 fans permalink
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Obama Rules !

Arianna Rules !

Thank you HuffPo for allowing me to voice your opinion, thank you , bows,grovels, thank you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 03/06/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1600 fans permalink
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lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 03/06/2008

Yes, the HuffPo-Gestapo mod group are hard at work to make sure we are all within HuffPo's "Politically Correct" guidleines.

Bastards.

(abusing moderators can and will get you banned. You have been logged. - HPMods)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 03/06/2008
- eyecon I'm a Fan of eyecon 8 fans permalink
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Just to be clear, the GOP created this problem. Presumably, they wanted to run against Obama at that time:

The state-run Presidential Preference Primary date is set by the Florida Legislature. In the 2007 legislative session, the Republican Speaker of the House made it a priority to move up the Primary to January, in violation of both Democratic and Republican National Committee Rules. The Legislature passed the bill, which also included the new requirement that all Florida elections have a paper trail starting in 2008. Governor Charlie Crist signed the bill into law in May.

BTW, the Republicans DIDN'T nullify Florida their Florida delegation. I guess that they wanted to run Rudy at the time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 03/06/2008

The Rep. are just loving this! The governor of Florida, Crist (R.) who fought to move up the date of the primary knowing full well that the votes will not count is now spinning this whole thing to be the DNC fault. Why isn’t the media asking him this question?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 03/06/2008

A do-over, DO-OVER!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!
"doctor" dean when did the fate of america become the equivalent of a game of Ring-A-Levio?????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:57 PM on 03/06/2008
- Warmglobe I'm a Fan of Warmglobe 9 fans permalink

yeah why not...with liberals rules don't really matter....­can I have a do over in November?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 03/06/2008

Don't get me started on neocons and changing the rules. All I need to mention are signing statements, secret rendition, waterboarding, The Geneva Convention, torture, Abu Grahib to mention a few. This country has begun to thrive on changing the rules, and while it's not limited to the neocons in this current misadministration, they certainly take the cake and are taking us for a ride. And yes, it has to do with this thread -- it has become endemic to the current American political reality, which is also what is on display in the MI / FL primary landscape.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:40 PM on 03/06/2008

Howard Dean for President!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 03/06/2008
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