Florida, Michigan Revote: News, Polls and Rumors

Huffington Post   |   March 7, 2008 05:54 PM


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**UPDATED** March 15

Clinton Supporters Stepping Up Pressure On DNC: The New York Times reports on the latest behind-the-scenes power struggle over the Florida and Michigan primaries:

Reflecting how tense the situation has become, influential fund-raisers for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton have stepped up their behind-the-scenes pressure on national party leaders to resolve the matter, with some even threatening to withhold their donations to the Democratic National Committee unless it seats the delegates from the two states or holds new primaries there.[...]

Pushing to seat the Florida delegates, at least one top Clinton fund-raiser, Paul Cejas, a Miami businessman who has given the Democratic National Committee $63,500 since 2003, has demanded Democratic officials return his 2007 contribution of $28,500, which they have agreed to do.

"If you're not going to count my vote, I'm not going to give you my money," said Mr. Cejas, who was the United States ambassador to Belgium from 1998 to 2001.


Michigan Re-Vote A Strong Possibility: AP reports on the latest coming out of Michigan:

Michigan Democrats are close to an agreement with presidential candidates Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama to hold a do-over primary.

Party officials and the campaigns negotiated on Thursday, and state Democratic leaders were hopeful that an agreement could be reached on Friday, said Democratic officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks. To go forward, any plan would require the approval of the two campaigns, the Democratic National Committee, state party leaders and Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who is backing Clinton.

MSNBC confirms the possibility and has more details:

While the idea of Florica re-vote seems to be fading, there is a lot of momentum among Michigan Democrats for a June 3 re-vote, according to informed sources in the state. There are a couple of hurdles, including who would pay for the primary (100% Clinton donors or 50-50 split between Clinton and Obama donors; the preference of state Democrats). The state would pass a law that would appropriate the money to run this special primary election; not a mail-in, but a full bore in-person 100% open primary. The state, in turn, would be reimbursed by the Democratic Party or potentially other entities or even seeing if it's possible for donors to contribute to the state directly. Everyone seems to be on board in the state Democratic world of Michigan, including the governor, the Dingells, Carl Levin, the Kilpatricks and the U.A.W. For those that follow Michigan Democratic politics closely, you'll know getting all those folks in agreement isn't easy.

Florida Re-Do Unlikely: The AP is reporting that Florida's plan for a vote-by-mail primary do-over has a slim chance of actually happening:

Karen Thurman, chairwoman of the Florida Democratic Party, offered a mail-in/in person proposal for voting and urged state leaders, the national party and the presidential candidates to sign on. Under the plan, all of Florida's 4.1 million Democrats would be mailed a ballot. They could send it back, or cast a ballot in one of 50 regional voting centers that would be set up. The election would end June 3, a week before a Democratic National Committee deadline to name delegates.

The estimated cost is $10 million to $12 million.

Asked if the plan will be implemented, Thurman said, "I have a feeling that this is probably closer to not, than yes."

The Miami Herald gives a thorough explanation of the numerous flaws the vote-by-mail plan contains:

Florida law prohibits election officials from authenticating votes cast in the Democratic Party's proposed do-over primary by mail, state officials said Thursday, a potentially fatal blow to the increasingly embattled plan.

''There's no authority under Florida law that would allow county supervisors of election or the state to verify signatures in an election of a state party,'' said Sterling Ivey, a spokesman for Florida's secretary of state and Division of Elections.

Verifying the identity of anyone who votes by mail -- either through a conventional absentee ballot or in the Florida Democrats' proposed and unprecedented statewide mailed election -- is considered a key bulwark against electoral fraud.

In addition, the plan floated Wednesday by state party chief Karen Thurman lacked a key requirement to protect the anonymity of voters -- an inner ''secrecy envelope,'' though aides said Thursday that the envelope would be included if the proposal gains momentum.

Read the plan's details here

Obama: Clinton Michigan Line "Defies Logic": Politico's Ben Smith reports on Obama's response to Hillary's claim that he competed in the Michigan primary:

Speaking to reporters on his plane today, Obama rejected the notion -- repeated by Clinton this morning on NPR -- that he competed in Michigan, because some of his supporters there urged a vote for "uncommitted."

"I saw an interview where Sen. Clinton suggested that we had competed in this race," he said. "I don't know exactly how she drew that conclusion, since I didn't step foot in Michigan and my name wasn't on the ballot, so the notion that somehow it would be fair for her to obtain significantly more delegates than me in a contest where we both agreed it wouldn't count, I wasn't on the ballot, and I didn't campaign there, just defies logic. I think you could ask my 6-year-old whether that was fair, and she would probably be able to say, 'No, that isn't.'"

Other Possible Plans For The Michigan/Florida Delegates: The Page's Mark Halperin has the following take on the delegate situation:

-Michigan's 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

-Florida's existing delegates would be seated at the Denver convention--but with half a vote each. That would give Clinton a net gain of about 19 elected delegates.

- The two states' superdelegates would then be able to vote in Denver, likely netting Clinton a few more delegates.

What's At Stake In A Florida Re-Vote? A Democratic Party official lists three responses to the question of "What Do We Have To Lose?" by having a new Florida vote. For example:

Undermining the ability of the DNC to insure order on the primary process. It would be quite ironic if Florida, despite having broken the rules, would get to hold a final primary that the media (and perhaps the candidates) will bill as the decisive contest to sway the superdelegates (as in, whoever can win in Florida deserves to take on John McCain in November). What incentive will this create for states in 2012 asked to abide by the Democratic party rules for the timing of primaries and caucuses?


Financing Florida Round Two: Newsweek is reporting that Florida is getting close to agreeing to a revote:

A solution to the growing controversy over Florida's disputed Democratic primary may now be in the works. Florida Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson tells NEWSWEEK he has spoken to the Florida Democratic Party about launching a soft-money fund-raising campaign for the benefit of a new mail-in primary, which would supercede the controversial Jan. 29 vote.


Nelson, who spoke on the phone Friday afternoon as he was boarding a plane from Washington, D.C., to Jacksonville, Fla., for the weekend, was not forthcoming with specifics in terms of who will be approached for donations (as a senator, he is specifically forbidden from raising soft-money donations), or the timing of the new primary. The senator was, however, clearly frustrated over waiting for other people to fix the problem. "My job is clear," Nelson says. "It's to stand up for the right of Floridians to vote as intended."

Carl Levin: No Revote In Michigan: Sen. Carl Levin has told the Huffington Post that there will be no second vote in his state:

"Michigan Democrats have for years argued against the unfair and irrational system in which New Hampshire and Iowa almost always have a hugely disproportionate impact on our presidential nominating process," a statement from his office read. A DNC commission reviewed the system and recommended a new sequence for 2008 in which New Hampshire would hold the third nomination contest. It was only after New Hampshire indicated its intention to violate the new sequence -- and the DNC's failure to enforce its own rules in light of New Hampshire's violation of those rules -- that Michigan decided it would move up its primary to January 15. The DNC subsequently voted to strip Michigan of its convention delegates."


Levin's office expanded on the statement, saying that the senator thought there were too many "financial and logistical hurdles" for holding another primary vote. "In any event believes that a change in course would require acceptance by both candidates."


 
 

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- nellie See Profile I'm a Fan of nellie permalink

The real story here is neither the Clinton nor the Obama campaign.

The real story here is Howard Dean's lack of leadership. This is exactly the kind of situation where the leader of the Democratic Party needs to exercise some judgment and some influence. And what do we get? Hands off, leave it to the states, leave it to the campaigns, leave it to the supporters. This is not leadership.

I'm surprised. And disappointed. And I don't think he deserves to keep his position.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 03/15/2008
- batgirl71 See Profile I'm a Fan of batgirl71 permalink

Let HRC's supporters demand their bribes back! Go to www.democrats.com and show Dean your support. If Hillary wins, McAuliffe will take back the DNC and his philosophy of most states don't count. Take back the party for all 50 states! I just donated 50.01.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 03/15/2008
- Waterbug See Profile I'm a Fan of Waterbug permalink

Does anyone know the cost of holding a US wide primary for the Dem nomination? The caucus process is disenfranchising, and we have such a close race. It really isn't enough to hold primaries just in these two states if we want to be truly fair to all the voters.

From what I understand, there are also state laws that may impede this solution. It simply seems like the most fair thing to do for all concerned. It would also give Dems the best chance to unify in time for the general election. That is the most important thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 03/15/2008
- butchie65 See Profile I'm a Fan of butchie65 permalink

Don't you just wonder what's in it for the Dingells, Granholm, Nelson and Levins ? I think they are all in it for a job from the old girl. Hillary knew what the rules were, she sure knows how to break them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 03/15/2008
- DrToketee See Profile I'm a Fan of DrToketee permalink

Keith Olbermann was exactly right. Nearly everyone wants to play by the rules. Only Hillary and her posse threaten to tear down the Democratic Party itself if they can't get their way by throwing childish tantrums when they get punished for violating the rules. Think about that: how could a candidate that does not even believe in obeying rules, or the LAW, be elected after 8 years of our nation enduring the worst President in our history whose criminal acts have damaged this country so, so much? To elect Hillary woould be simply be to elect George W. Bush all over again for the THIRD time, this time as a pig with lipstick and a skirt. No matter who gets nominated, it is now already certain that Hillary Clinton will never, ever, become President of the united States.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 03/15/2008
- kcal2000 See Profile I'm a Fan of kcal2000 permalink

If the roles were reversed and Clinton was leading and Obama behind, this would NOT even be an issue. The DNC would not be bending over backwards to deal with the MI, FL situation. If Obama raised the issue as Clinton did, people would have said "stop whining", "rules are rules", they would have told him long ago to bow out gracefully.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 03/15/2008
- bronceye See Profile I'm a Fan of bronceye permalink

Is this what Hillary and Rupert talked about last year? It is definitely a pro repub enterprise. Hillary has no chance w/o muckraking, character assasination and swift boating a pastor. Stealing a nomination when you are clearly not the favorite of the electorate is sealing your own and your party's doom. She seems to be a suicide bomber under the guise of bush's republican guard. Her vision stops at her nose. She has proven that she is not a good leader, just a power hungry wannabee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 03/15/2008
- 1dogs2 See Profile I'm a Fan of 1dogs2 permalink

It's doubtful that blackmail will have the effect desired by the blackmailers. (I don't hold Clinton responsible for this latest gaffe by her supporters except to the extent that she doesn't seem to be able to get her supporters under control.)

Its time to settle this mess in a way that will be as fair as possible to all concerned. Have new, full-fledged primaries in both Michigan and Florida and seat 50% of each candidate's delegates as the penalty for the deliberate violation by the state parties of the rules agreed to by the state parties and all the candidates. Make the DNC and Dean responsible for raising the money to pay for the do-overs through on-line donations of not more than $500 per donor. If they can't raise the money, don't do the do-overs and don't seat the delegations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 03/15/2008
- CBS See Profile I'm a Fan of CBS permalink

That's our gal Hillary!!! Why doesn't she just start her own party? The Hillarites would be happy to have John McCain as president for four years so that Hillary can run again in 2012. Care about the country? Nah, it's Hillary's time. JM&J the woman IS a MONSTER and not in a good way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 03/15/2008
- journey80 See Profile I'm a Fan of journey80 permalink

AARRRGGGHHH. WHY NOT SPLIT THE VOTES IN BOTH STATES? 50-50, SEAT THEM, and GET ON WITH IT?

Um, because Clinton ally Gov. Jennifer Granholm controls the board of elections in Michigan and the Clintons have a golden opportunity to steal some votes?

Oh.

Anybody home at the DNC? Can we apply the Pottery Barn rule? You broke it, you buy it. Take over, do your job: resolve this Clinton-driven fiasco in the only possible fair way that doesn't cost a boatload of money we'll need in the GE; or turn a Michigan redo over to a motivated board of elections; tell both states to take it or leave it, and put an end to this transparent maneuver by the Clintons.

Hillary will go into overdrive and we'll have to listen to the screeching and threats, but we will anyway because Poor Hillary is an important theme of her campaign. If she gets her way in this, she will find something else to whine about. Listening to the Clintons yowl about being hosed in Florida and Michigan would actually be a pleasure.

Chris Dodd is right: 50-50. What's so hard about that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 03/15/2008
- SeekerOne See Profile I'm a Fan of SeekerOne permalink

For goodness sakes, just seat the delegates and split the vote or come up with some kind of formula. Why should we all have to pay for the choices of MI and FL? They were playing with fire. If they wanted to change the silly system that has needed to be changed for eons, perhaps they might've fought for it under less heated circumstances?? It's virtually impossible to hold an election now without extreme prejudice and I don't think that Florida wants to become embroiled in another election scandal.

When this is all over, MI and FL have some splaining to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 AM on 03/15/2008
- beerguy See Profile I'm a Fan of beerguy permalink

The Democratic party has used identity politics on the right for years and now it is rearing it's ugly head within their own party. How does it feel to watch your party rip itself apart dems?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 03/15/2008
- idileru21 See Profile I'm a Fan of idileru21 permalink

This shows how lobbylists will be dining and wining in the white house if Hillary wins the Presidency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 AM on 03/15/2008
- Bluesue See Profile I'm a Fan of Bluesue permalink

Does the required number of delegates change? Let's assume extortion and other pressure works and Hillary is one step closer to stealing the nomination.

My understanding is the 2025 number takes into account exclusion of Florida and Michigan. So if they're included, doesn't that number change? 4048+367 = 4415/2 = 2207.5 (simple majority = 2208).

Every article I read about Florida & Michigan still uses the 2025 number.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 03/15/2008
- ceciboloca See Profile I'm a Fan of ceciboloca permalink

This is pure blackmail on the part of Clinton's backers. Plain and simple. Both states broke the rules.
They disenfranchised themselves. It is a self-inflicted injury. . And Florida. Always a problem with Florida!!! I am glad Howard Dean is at the helm of the DNC and not Bill's poodle Terry McAuliffe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 03/15/2008
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