Mayor Declares

Mayor Declares "Lou Dobbs Free Month"

The Santa Cruz Sentinel   |  Shanna McCord   |   March 7, 2008 01:28 PM



From the Santa Cruz Sentinel:

The mayor, in a quixotic move unrelated to city business, is asking Santa Cruz residents to turn off "Lou Dobbs Tonight."


The boycott, announced Wednesday in a proclamation written by Mayor Ryan Coonerty that declares March a "Lou Dobbs-free month," is retaliation for the CNN anchor's criticism of Rep. Sam Farr, D-Carmel, after the congressman told an Immigration and Customs Enforcement official last week that his constituents view the agency as similar to the secret Nazi police, the Gestapo.


"This is a tongue-in-cheek effort at a real serious issue," said Coonerty, who acknowledged the proclamation is somewhat silly. "So, this is my little way of saying I wish our national journalists would engage in a little more thoughtful journalism ... and not pick out one word out of a two-hour hearing on a hard subject."

Neither Dobbs nor a CNN representative could be reached to comment Wednesday.

Dobbs has been at the center of several public feuds of late, including one with the CEO of Goldman Sachs and one with Geraldo Rivera.

Watch the video of Dobbs challenging Goldman Sachs' CEO Lloyd Blankfein to a duel here.

Watch the video of Geraldo explaining why he wouldn't shake Dobbs' hand here.



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Bravo Santa Cruz!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 AM on 03/09/2008

Tonight on Lou Dobbs:

1. Uneducated Immigrants taking our jobs
2. NAFTA Highway brings about the end of human civilization
3. George Bush makes a silly comment
4. Bill Clinton makes a silly comment

Interesting line up, Lou. How about instead you fill us in on how two hollow aluminum airliners were able to effortless glide through the reinforced steel and concrete towers of the World Tade Center, violating all known laws of physics?

Nah, that stuff's boring. Let's get an update on Angelina Jolie's baby instead. Now that's hard-hitting journalism.

You are all apes.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 03/09/2008

These illegals ain't facing the Gestapo, they are facing american justice... They came here illegally, they avoid detection by a variety of unlawful means (including the borrowing of your SSN's), they bankrupt health care service by using emergency rooms as their free clinics, many work under the table and, thus, avoid paying takes, and they work for less then there american counterparts and drive down wages and benefits in the process... I'm going to turn my two television set on this next month and tune them both to Lou Dobbs... Without him, the misguided Immigration Reform legislation that Kennedy, McCain and LaRaza drafted last year would be law and it was a terrible piece of legislation.... Go ICE... Round them up and ship them out... American is a great place to live for those who come here and live here as a law-abiding citizen... Just because 20 million were able to sneak across the border doesn't make the law s or the enforcement of those laws a bad thing...

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 03/08/2008

Lou Dobbs had an African American gentleman from New Jersey on one show. This man showed Lou his ancestor's manumission papers and started tearing up. Seems his two sons are skilled carpenters and they cannot get work because illegal immigrant laborers will work for 1/2 of what they charge, maybe less. Grandsons of African American Slaves cannot get work in their trade near their hometown because of illegal immigrant labor.

I think Lou Dobbs makes a lot of sense most of the time.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 03/08/2008

Mr Coonerty inherited his spot in local politics from his daddy, who was once a mayor and is now on the Bd of Supes. The original family business is bookselling, and their Bookshop Santa Cruz is the center of downtown for the literate, as the movie houses across the street are for them as ain't. Our town is well known for taking on the big issues. We are, probably still and since the Sandinistas were born, a free port for Nicaragua. We do not welcome US Navy ships, however, only those from Nicaragua. From somewhere out along Swift Street to the Yacht Harbor we are a Nuclear-Free Zone, so if you want to build a reactor you must move to Live Oak. Santa Cruz once used to laugh about its "Ugly Law" which prohibited hiring or rental discrimination against anyone because he was pierced, short, too tall or ugly. There is much complaining, more than you'll find in Darfur; those who live beside the tracks whine about trains, and those who move beside the harbor complain of dredging, and everyone bellyaches about traffic, rent, jobs, schools, dogs, cats, and the fact that everyone is always complaining.

It's nice to get out of town for a change. This is why politicians in our community often seek inspiration from DC. It's the same reason those goons who live in DC start international wars; home is just too depressing and an utterly hopeless prospect anyway.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:06 PM on 03/08/2008

where millions illegal thats make liberal Win election and rate school number 50

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:06 PM on 03/08/2008

"TECHO-FUEDALISM - a transitional era of entrepreneurial 'SUPERCAPITALISM' in the early twenty first century United States (see; Nation States - elementary steps in human evolution), that disregarded national borders, boundaries, or treaties, (see; "globalism") in order to consolidate it's commercial, labor, and mercantile markets from a regional economic apparatus to a global one. Its wealthiest proponents held that MARKETS, not countries, were the keys to the future. In turn, the so-called "unwashed masses," beneficiaries of mid 20th century socialized democracy (see; Roosevelt, Franklin D., New Deal, middle-class), tried to challenge the status-quo through a rag-tag and rough-shod labor nationalist movement that sought to alleviate their economic demise through racial/ethnic cleansing (see; mass arrest, deportation, defamation through network media, i.e. television) of recently arrived workers to what they referred to as "their country." This "nationalist" movement was doomed to failure from the start due to the increase of skilled/non-skilled labor productivity around the rest of the globe. The super capitalist mega-corporation could shift its headquarters, as well as its manufacturing centers, to anywhere in the world without regard to so-called "citizens" labor movements. The "Racial Purges of the Ancient United States," as they would come to be known, are today regarded as another dark chapter in the history of our planet. Yet without such despicable acts being committed on other human beings there could never have been the hope of "the Re-enlightenment" period that followed this tumultuous era in our world's history."

J.A. Mons Caunos
Dir. Earth Histoanthropology
Univ. of Mars Olympus
2110 A.D.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 03/08/2008

If Americans could get paid a decent wage for farm work they would do it. It is the hardest, most grueling, thankless job, and the workers should be paid a livable wage for making it possible for us all to eat.

I live on an island, and when I was young, there were no jobs here except to sell Avon, and do farm work. I stood in the rain or sweltering sun for eight hours a day pruning flowers. Sat on the back of a truck in the rain eating my lunch, and my boyfriend had to wear a protective suit and respirator and walk around poisoning weeds all day- rain or scorching sunshine. We earned just over a dollar an hour then, in the 70's. Even as caretakers of a property with no rent to pay, we could not make it. We finally had to leave our island, and find work in the mainland US until such time as we had acquired some new skills to support us back here in Hawaii. I have a lot of aloha for farm workers, as a result of my experiences.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 03/08/2008

"TECHO-FUEDALISM - a transitional era of entrepreneurial 'SUPERCAPITALISM' in the early twenty first century United States (see; Nation States - elementary steps in human evolution), that disregarded national borders, boundaries, or treaties, (see; "globalism") in order to consolidate it's commercial, labor, and mercantile markets from a regional economic apparatus to a global one. Its wealthiest proponents held that MARKETS, not countries, were the keys to the future. In turn, the so-called "unwashed masses," beneficiaries of mid 20th century socialized democracy (see; Roosevelt, Franklin D., New Deal, middle-class), tried to challenge the status-quo through a rag-tag and rough-shod labor nationalist movement that sought to alleviate their economic demise through racial/ethnic cleansing (see; mass arrest, deportation, defamation through network media, i.e. television, Nazi Germany) of recently arrived workers to what they referred to as "their country." This "nationalist" movement was doomed to failure from the start due to the increase of skilled/non-skilled labor productivity around the rest of the globe. The super capitalist mega-corporation could shift its headquarters, as well as its manufacturing centers, to anywhere in the world without regard to so-called "citizens" labor movements. The "Racial Purges of the Ancient United States," as they would come to be known, are today regarded as another dark chapter in the history of our planet. Yet without such despicable acts being committed on other human beings there could never have been the hope of "the Re-enlightenment" period that followed this tumultuous era in our world's history."

J.A. Mons Caunos
Dir. Earth Histoanthropology
Univ. of Mars Olympus Mons
2110 A.D.

exerpts from the book: "Notes From Mars"

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 03/08/2008





Keep up the xenophobic racist rhetoric you haters. Yea lets have more of the right wing funny stuff , "Next the signs will be replaced by a face with a mustachio and sombrero, deport the anchor babies, Gutter Spanish will soon be taught in our US Schools," yea real funny, but we US citizens of Mexican heritage are listening closely and this crap is nothing new. Many of us who felt that we were good Americans, born here, or who's family's have been here for hundreds of years, served this country in time of war and peace, who's family's have suffered from discrimination and prejudice in the past but fought through it and have been successful, who thought we of Mexican heritage were part of the mainstream, oh now we see and hear what's really in a lot of peoples hearts.

Even though many Mexican Americans also feel that our borders need to be secured and that a more comprehensive immigration program needs to be put in place, even though some of us have voted Republican and maybe Conservatives , we now see how the right wing haters would use poor Mexicans who are just looking for a better life for their family's, just like many of our ancestors suffered in the quest for a better life, as new convenient scapegoats for an economy that has been raped by the current Republican administration for the last eight years and now is collapsing, But oh no, lets blame all our problems and afflictions on the Mexican "illegal Aliens" yea that's a nice smokescreen.

Even though I have been financially successful and can afford to live in a nice home, give my children a good education and more opportunity than I or my ancestors had, even though my children hardly speak the Spanish language at all, even though many of us of Mexican ancestry have been homogenized and by and large 100% Americans, even though all this has taken place, many of us can still remember our grandparents and great grandparents who looked and acted just like the present day Mexican Immigrants who spoke little or no English, many were or practically illiterate, who had different and sometimes funny and odd cultural traits and customs, who's culture and music and history was almost completely foreign to us American raised offspring.
And even though many years have passed and most of those ancestors are now long gone, we Mexican Americans were taught to respect and honor those ancestors for their perseverance, the love they had for the family above all else, the sense of humor and irony despite the tragedy and sorrow they had in their lives. The love and support they gave us even though many times we didn't even speak the same language anymore.
All these things we Americans of Mexican heritage can see in these more recent immigrants and we Mexican Americans are the fastest growing segment of the population at the present and have long memories so you haters and xenophobes just keep up the odious rhetoric if you think it may get you some votes or some relief from your own disappointments, but just remember that the chickens always come home to roost.


Leviticus 16:8, when God orders the high priest Aaron to "place lots upon the 2 goats, one marked for the Lord and the other marked for Azazel" on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The goat designated by lot for the Lord is to be used as a sin offering, while the goat designated for Azazel "shall be left standing alive before the Lord, to make expiation with it and to send it off to the wilderness to Azazel" (Lev. 16:10). Aaron was to "lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over it all the iniquities and transgressions of the Israelites, whatever their sins, putting them on the head of the goat; and it shall be sent off to the wilderness by someone designated for the task. Thus the goat shall carry on it all their iniquities to an inaccessible region; and the goat shall be set free in the wilderness"

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 03/08/2008

whether or not you agree with dobbs, and on many issues i don't, at least give him credit for engaging in an intelligent discussion on an important issue. he freely gives a platform to opposing views and debates the issue from an intellectually honest position. what's wrong with that? would you rather be talking about what name hillary was called today or whether or not the clinton campaign darkened a picture of obama? i think not. the guy is not an idiot just because you don't agree with him, and the fact that so many people think like that is one of the big problems in our politics today.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 03/08/2008

Dobbs goes full bore after the illegals but says nothing about the corrupt Mexican or Central American governments and business that create the real cause for all these people to flee "Norte".
Lou, why not go after those corrupt officials who could give a care less about their own people and let the "gingo's" take care of the mess.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 03/08/2008

I am way ahead on this one. I turned Dobbs off months ago after becoming fed up with the nightly anti-Mexican diatribes and listening to him call anyone with whom he disagrees an "idiot." Dobbs is just a bigot masquerading as champion of the middle-class. Take away the mask, and what you're left with is an ignorant bigot.

The only remaining question is whether to turn off Wolff as well. Half the time, Blitzer reminds me of a frenzied, masturbating snow monkey. He's a horrible interviewer, never asks the tough questions, and has never met an establishment pol that he doesn't like, admire, and adulate.

I have switched to PBS and MSNBC. I have had it with the Clinton News Network and this John McCain fan club.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 03/08/2008

the most dangerous type of hate monger: meshing serious legitimate issues and some good journalism with a nice balance of immigrant-fearing, xenophobic and racist shit veiled under the cloak of national security issues.

You become hooked on the story about the Chinese govt. trying to hack our computer systems, a real national security threat, and if you're not paying attention you also got sucked in to the praises of the Minute Men - who by the way, Lou Dobbs will never tell you, stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from people who were so concerned about "broken borders" that they mortgaged they houses and gave the money to the minute men who said they would build a fence and patrol the borders.

Well, i guess you know where this story ends: there's a few feet of broken down cattle fence about 2 ft high (to keep out Mexican midgets i guess) and there's no one patrolling the border of course. But i bet the leader of the minute men has a new pool!

It is quite possible to discuss ILLEGAL immigration without this kind of hate and fear mongering spewed out by CNN and Lou Dobbs. i don't watch the show anymore.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 03/08/2008

Instead of giving billions of dollars to Middle Eastern countries every year, give it to Mexico; that"ll drastically cut the illegal immigration problem and go a long way to shutting Lou up.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 AM on 03/08/2008

Mexico is very corrupt. Giving them money won't solve their problem. The government would take this money and keep it. The people in Mexico need to make their government accountable. It can come from us.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:39 AM on 03/10/2008

I meant to say it can't come from us.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 AM on 03/12/2008

My question is this: What part of ILLEGAL don't people get? I am a LEGAL immigrant , came here as a child adopted by Americans - had to take a ton of shots, application, etc., learned ENGLISH as a foreign language - took the test to become an American citizen, have voted every election since I was 18. (Die-Hard Democrat) I was told when I became a CITIZEN that it was a PRIVILEDGE that could be REVOKED if I broke the LAW, and I could be deported.

Why don't these rules apply to EVERYONE??? It's not RACISM to deplore illegal immigration. It just means that SOME people don't have to obey the rules, while the rest of us do. If ILLEGAL immigrants break the law, they are not even DEPORTED!!! The entire country, except for Native Americans, are IMMIGRANTS. And except for the African Americans, they CHOSE to come here, and RESPECT the laws of this country.

This whole issue should be a no-brainer. Why else do we even bother with laws, if you can make exceptions for a few million people? I sympathize with their plight, but every time these people come here illegally and get REWARDED for it - take health care for example - it's a slap in the face to every hard-working citizen and LEGAL immigrant that actually has to PAY for the same health care - and furthermore, pay for the health care of these illegal aliens with OUR tax dollars.

If idiotic politicians don't get this - who ELSE is ever going to change this policy and make it right? Or at least make some adjustments to the current system, which is clearly NOT working.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 AM on 03/08/2008

Thank you.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 03/08/2008

so whats the solution?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 03/08/2008

Secure the borders, deport all ILLEGAL ALIENS, heavily fine those who hire ILLEGALS, and return to the original intent of the 14th amendment and do away with anchor babies.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 AM on 03/12/2008

LOU 2008 anything will be GREAT FOR AMERICA , USA becoming corrupt govt now, coward run by lobbiest and billary the queen open border

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 AM on 03/08/2008

Dobbs is just trying to be controversial and "over the top" like O'Reilly, so that he can boost his ratings. No one's buying his act.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:53 PM on 03/07/2008

I know plenty of people who 'buy his act'. He was the only one covering the outsourcing epidemic in the early 2000's and is still the only one to take it seriously..

The argument goes that low skilled jobs can be done by illegals... or guest workers if they ever pass that nonsense... and that American workers should do the skilled 'information industry' jobs.

Well guess what... those jobs are long gone. Ask yourself this question... is there any way that my job could be outsourced... even if they needed some new, semi-fantastic but reasonable technology to do it. If the answer is yes then you better be very afraid because where there's a way there's a will.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:55 PM on 03/08/2008

Excuse me. It was a Congressman who compared our immigration service to the Nazis? Now who is just trying to be controversial? The guy should be slapped for that crap!


Regards

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 03/08/2008

We are spitting in the face of all those who legally immigrate here. Small businesses and corporations are selling out to cheap labor and the federal government is letting them. When we have a welfare class of a hundred million that guts the U.S. treasury, maybe then our government will take the issue seriously. But for now, Republicans AND Dems can't get the illegals in here fast enough. It's all about greed and cheap labor. To hell with the law.

Anyone trying to have a serious discussion about illegal immigration is called a racist. Try immigrating to Mexico and this is what you'll find:

Mexico enforces its border security with machine guns. It does not provide Welfare to non-Mexican immigrants. English speaking workers in Mexico are not provided translators. You either speak Spanish or tough tamales. Mexico will only allow highly educated immigrants, but closes its doors to the poor and unskilled. Mexico requires that all non-Mexican workers have a work permit in order to live and work in Mexico. Rich Mexicans are purging their country of its poor and uneducated masses and laughing all the way to the bank with all the U.S. dollars flowing into their country. As soon as illegal immigrants drop a kid in the U.S. their children are automatically U.S. citizens and they can receive welfare benefits, food stamps, free medical for their kids, TANF cash assistance, free education and HUD housing assistance. And, they do so in HUGE numbers. Their parents and relatives automatically become permanent residents. Illegal immigrants are given preferential treatment to legally immigrate to the U.S. if they have relatives in the U.S. Because illegals can make 20 times what they can in their native country, they will keep coming by the tens of millions. Wouldn't you?

Diseases long eradicated in the U.S. are making a comeback because the U.S. refuses to guard its borders. Welcome back tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague and polio.

Mexican children are taught in school that the Southwest was stolen from them by the gringos in 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe - and they want it back. It's not this 50 million illegals you should be worrying about - it's the next 50 million and the 50 million after that. This HUGE voting block may force bilingual language upon U.S. citizens by virtue of their sheer numbers. Don't look to your politicans. They live in their gated communities and have sold their souls to the highest bidder.

Welcome to the United States of Central and South America.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 03/07/2008

This is funny. That panty waist Dobbs, "Oh, come on my show, Mr. Big Sssstuff and see how tough you are, ooooh!" will lay a brick over this.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 PM on 03/07/2008

I am a registered independent but I have mostly voted Democrat in my lifetime. And I agree with Lou Dobbs. Stop illegal immigration. Fine the businesses that hire them. Stop the outsourcing or American jobs. Democrats should be for keeping American wages high, not ushering in cheap labor.





favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 03/07/2008

My grand parents migrated to this country Legally ..... I say Keep up the good work Lou Dobbs....the word is Illegal immigration is just that illegal and Lets keep English our national language..... Our family adopted this country its culture and it s English Language because they left countries to live the American Dream..........


Keep up the Good Work Lou !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 03/08/2008

I understand what you are saying, but I also see Mexicans (that's who Dobbs singles out) as being scapegoated. If you send home all of the illegals, it won't bring back the outsourced jobs; it won't save the US economy that is mired in debt; it won't rescue the falling dollar; it won't end the war; it won't end the housing bust; it won't prevent bank failures. It WILL, at least temporarily, destroy agribusiness in many states. It WILL cause economic chaos in Mexico which could lead to a destabilized Mexico. The US is a corporate nation and corporations (and their politicians) will make sure that American wages stay depressed - illegals or not. The Democratic party is no more.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 AM on 03/08/2008

This has been a pet peeve of mine for years.Democrats should step back and take a long hard look at how illegal immigration is impacting the poor and working people in this country.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 AM on 03/08/2008

It appears that Mayor Connerty favors censorship over debate. Nothing wrong with debating these issues. Censorship in a free society suggests that he has no valid points to form a counterargument or is afraid to debate.

Lou actually makes many valid criticisms that are politically unpopular with both parties. His objection to illegal immigration stems from a desire for basic law and order of our preexisting immigration laws.

Granting amnesty to millions of people in our nation who are here illegally sends a clear and strong message:Voluntary compliance/ignorance is an acceptable alternative for laws that you don't care for.

Therefore: Why should anyone pay taxes? Why should anyone obey gun laws? Why should'nt everyone cheat and steal? The precedent set through amnesty means all other laws cease to be binding on the unwilling. Why should we care?

Because we cannot maintain civilization when fundamental laws are openly disregarded and flagrantly disobeyed. If foundational laws about sovereignty, security, and borders don't count, then does our Constitution really count any more? If we wish to continue to live in a world where law and order has any meaning, then we must require compliance between word and deed. Equal enforcement of the law is a value that is important to fair treatment of every citizen. This principle is in jeopardy if special treatment is available for some and not others.

Those arguing for impeachment of the president for high crimes and misdemeanors yet want the law bent for certain other groups are holding a hypocritical position.

Maintaining an outright contradiction between preexisting laws and policy is a road the nation cannot survive in its current form. Fortunately Ralph Nader is running and respects our Constitution and the rule of law.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 AM on 03/08/2008

I live in the district. This idiot Ryan Coonerty is my mayor. Sam Farr is my congressman.

Neither of these guys are the brightest bulbs in the bunch. Sam Farr voted for Nafta. He has a long history of representing Mexicans over Americans.

Ryan Coonerty only got elected because his father is part of the corrupt political machine that controls Santa Cruz. Nepotism and crony politics are all the rage in Santa Cruz. The same politicians have been in control for 30 years and they have done nothing to improve the standard of living for the people They are too busy rallying against the war, supporting the legalization of drugs, and supporting the illegal Mexicans who prey on the people.

Here is the Coonerty/Far record in my district:

Out of control crime, caused mostly by Mexican gangsters.

Trash and graffiti everywhere.

Terrorism caused by ultra left fanatics.

Terrorism against churches.

Terrorism by Mexican gangs.

The city center of Santa Cruz is over-run by bums and social degenerates who scare people away from working and coming here. The city centers of Watsonville and Salinas, both in Farr's district, are controlled by Mexican gangs.

The traffic problem is out of control.

The streets resemble a 3rd world country. There are potholes and unpaved streets everywhere.

There are no jobs and whatever jobs there are Coonerty and Farr frighten them away with their idiotic anti-business policies.

There is a water crisis.

Drug use and drug crimes are rampant.

Ryan Connerty hasn't done shit as mayor. His public record so far is running around campaigning for non-local issues and his idiotic proclamation against Lou Dobbs.

Sam Farr hasn't done shit except to write op-ed pieces in the local newspapers about how much he wants to protect the illegal immigrants.

Sam Farr goes out of his way even to help illegal immigrant violent criminals from being deported.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 PM on 03/07/2008

This is just ridiculous. I live in this district too and it is nothing like what is being described, but I'm guessing most reasonable people who read this could see that. Watsonville's city center is not controlled by gangs and there is no lack of jobs since its economy has been growing.

I just realized I am wasting my time trying to dispute the obviously exaggerated and racist views of this person, but at least now there is a more balanced view of this issue.