Bob Graham: Iraq War Vote Was Commander In Chief Test

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First Posted: 03-14-08 10:13 AM   |   Updated: 03-28-08 05:12 AM

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Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound eerily similar to Barack Obama's.

"I don't believe there is a school you can go to, to train to be commander-in-chief," Graham said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "I think the qualities you are looking for would include, judgment, the willingness to surround yourself with strong people, listening to a diversity of ideas and then forming a conclusion. I think curiosity is important.

"If there had been a little more curiosity in the fall 2002 -- if the questions had been asked -- [it] would have raised a lot of suspicions," he said, referencing the Iraq war authorization vote. "I think you have to look to see whether those qualities exist. And if they do, you have reason to believe that the person who has those qualities would become an effective commander-in-chief."

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.

"If you look at recent presidents, certainly George W. Bush didn't have any commander-in-chief experience, neither had Bill Clinton," he said. "George H. W. Bush had served in the military. Reagan didn't serve in the military. Carter was an Annapolis graduate. He was probably as close to what you would consider prepared to be commander-in-chief of the recent presidents."

The Florida Democrat was less hesitant to weigh in on the other major campaign issue of the day -- what to do about Florida's delegates -- in part because he simply didn't have the magic bullet to resolve the crisis. But he did offer some detailed analysis and colorful metaphors.

On Florida's decision to move up its primary and the DNC's retaliation of stripping the state of its delegates:

"This was like a bank robbery. The Republicans [who controlled the legislature and governor's chair and pushed to move up the primary] were in the vault, putting their money in the bags. The Democrats were in the car out on the street, ready to drive the bank robbers away after the heist. The bank robbers in the vault got a light tap on the wrist [from the RNC] and we got a chainsaw that took off our right arm."

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On what to do to get those delegates counted at the convention:

"Our options are not many and none of them are very good. There has been a lot of interest in maybe a mail-in ballot because it is not inexpensive. But apparently there are a lot of legal problems with doing a mail-in ballot [Florida's entire House delegation opposes the idea as well]... The other two options are to try and run a full scale primary, which will be very expensive and difficult because many counties use this period in the spring and summer to switch out machinery and a number of counties say they can't physically put on an election... The third is to have a caucus, but that has never been our tradition, and it doesn't seem to have gotten much lift."

So what should be done?

"We are in a real mess. If Michigan and Florida are sufficiently teed off as a result of it, then it changes enough votes to put them in the Republican column. That represents about 45 or so electoral votes, which would be more than the margin of victory in most recent presidential elections. So it is a very bad place for Democrats. We are waiting for the Huffington Post to give us a creative option."

Um... Don't hold your breath.

Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound...
Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound...
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Bob, you're a good man. Acts of war are to be declared by Congress like the Constitution states...t­here are to be no 'tests' of Presidents whether they want to become a 'commander­-in-chief'­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 03/14/2008

"We are waiting for the Huffington Post to give us a creative option."

I assume Sen. Graham was jesting, but even so, here's an option I haven't seen mentioned: online voting over a one-week period. That's what the Democrats Abroad did last month. Obviously there are security concerns and other hurdles to overcome, but they're not necessarily insurmountable. For those without computers, set up voting stations at he precinct level with computers borrowed from somewhere . . .

I realize this wouldn't be easy to set up and manage, and perhaps it's totally impractical for Florida. But since nobody seems to have come up with an acceptable option, let me just throw this idea into the ring.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 03/14/2008

Oh, and for the voting stations, how about using all the public libraries?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

How about this?

I, for one, am glad there is no controversy over FL and MI. Just think what would have happened if all the candidates hadn't agreed beforehand that those two states wouldn't count because they both broke the rules. Just think what a mess it would be if there hadn't been complete agreement among all the candidates. Something like that could have ripped the party apart.

Great foresight prevented a huge dispute. Thanks to the DNC for clearing everything up long before any votes were held, and thanks especially to Sens. Clinton and Obama for defusing that issue before it arose and for sticking to their committments. I am so proud of our party. We made sure FL and MI wouldn't be a problem.

Now we can finish out the nominating process, and all states are on notice that they can't just make up their own rules. Good precedent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Honestly..­.. why not just have people go to their regular polling places.... like they always do... have a piece of paper with two names on it..... check the box next to the name you want.... count them up... and Viola!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 03/14/2008

In other words, just have another regular primary, right?
Sounds fine to me, but hasn't that already been ruled out? I was just trying to think of a different option . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 PM on 03/14/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 48 fans permalink

It's telling that the lions of the Democratic Party, the highly experienced and long serving members of Congress, are supporting Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:43 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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It certainly is.... and I would bet there are many who have not said who they are supporting­... but they have already decided...­. ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 03/14/2008

They may change their minds when they see the videos of Obama's 20 year pastor, friend, mentor and "uncle" ranting and raving about "God Damn America ..." Obama just said "I don't repudiate the man ..." speaking on Keith Olbermann's show. The pastor married him and his wife, christened his kids, and "is his mentor". OMG. So, he thinks this guy is okay, but doesn't like some of his words? What? You're known by the company you keep, period. I suppose the head of the KKK said some reasonable things, but I have no problem repudiating the entire KKK, regardless of any good they have ever done. This is the beginnning of the end of Obama. "God damn America...­" is language that no one, no one in this country should ever say. It is completely disgusting. I'm sorry I voted for Obama for Senator .... and will not for President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 PM on 03/14/2008
- Kalima I'm a Fan of Kalima 74 fans permalink
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Why would they, if they do,then they are spineless wimps.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 03/14/2008
- indie17 I'm a Fan of indie17 9 fans permalink

Okay, that's the fourth time I've seen this post. Time for you to find something about Clinton that you can still support.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 03/14/2008

He must be a sexist pig, picking on a woman.

That Hilly voted for Iraq is bad, but that she says "it wasn't a vote for war", that she defends her vote - the last one I heard was something about "so Saddam didn't compete with Bin Laden" - are insults to anyone's intelligence.

The noble thing was what Edwards did - he said "I was wrong", but Clintons have never been strong on being noble... - well she acts like nobility, but that's not how I'm using the word.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 03/14/2008

hillary is a liar. nothing she says anymore has the least bit of credibility with people who think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 03/14/2008

"Hilly" voted for the war because "Hilly" is a pro-Bush Republican. Why would this "independent" woman use every play out of the Republican play book? Could it be because she can't even manage her own campaign? Could it be because bitter, codependent women can't see past their own plumbing?

It's not wonder Hillary is attracting old, racist, uneducated women. If you are really an "independent" woman, that means you can use that tissue between your ears for something other than "standing" by your immoral man.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 03/14/2008
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Thanks again, Sam, I've always believed her vote to authorize the invasion of Iraq WITHOUT voting for the Levin Amendment 'proved' she would NEVER be ready to be Commander-In-Chief.

Her lack of remorse for having helped destroy a country, for THEIR natural resources, and then authorizing similar powers to be used against Iran, is very telling that she quietly agrees with these monstrous policies initiated by the preznutz and the neoCONS, and has NO intention of really changing OUR country's direction in the middle east.

The criminal currently pretending to be a preznutz has proven to OUR country what a insidiously bogus argument the 'ready at 3:00 a.m. on Day One' truly is, he's shown us that ANY IDIOT can point to a map or just name a country and tell the Generals to, "Destroy that!".

Without REAL 'change' OUR country may be done, this illegal occupation of Iraq and the corporate favoritism in CONgressional legislation is likely spending us into another Great Depression. It's time to bring that Iraq money and every one of OUR troops home ...NOW.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 03/14/2008

I have no earthly idea why folks believe that Democrats will flee to either not vote or vote Republican because their delegates have not been seated at the convention. Do they have no faith in the fact that they are running a race against a Bush wannabe? I mean, really, have some faith. Obama's got it, so so can the rest of you. Be POSITIVE! That's what we're looking for. Hope Billary tanks big. That's my positive thought for the day (and tomorrow, and next week, and next month, and on into the convention; BTW, I 'm going to Denver because I want to be OUTSIDE making sure my voice is heard to nominate a man of integrity and great grace, Barack H. Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 03/14/2008

i agree with you. i live in florida and beleive me i will vote no matter what they do.
and i will not vote for hillary. i would have a couple months ago but i believe she is a "monster" now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 03/14/2008
- gregjones I'm a Fan of gregjones 16 fans permalink
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From Blacks4Barack (A Multi-Racial Grassroots Org.)
TO HILLARY SUPPORTERS­.....Are you SURE you want her running America...
PLEASE READ THIS FIRST ....for AMERICA !!!!

FIRST FIRST LADY to come under criminal investigation

FIRST FIRST LADY to almost be indicted acccording to one of the special prosecutors

NUMBER of Hillary Clinton fundraisers convicted of, or pleading no contest to, crime: 5

NUMBER OF TIMES that Hillary Clinton, providing testimony to Congress, said that she didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar: 250

NUMBER OF CLOSE BUSINESS partners of Hillary Clinton who ended up in prison: 3. The Clintons' two partners in Whitewater wereconvicted of 24 counts of fraud and conspiracy. Hillary Clinton's partner and mentor at the Rose law firm, Webster Hubbell, pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges, including defrauding former clients and former partners out of more than $480,000. Hillary Clinton was mentioned 35 times in the indictment.

IN THE 1980s, Hillary Clinton made a $44,000 profit on a $2,000 investment in a cellular phone franchise deal took advantage of the FCC's preference for locals, minorities and women. The franchise was almost immediately flipped to the cellular giant, McCaw.

HILLARY CLINTON AND HER HUSBAND set up a resort land scam known as Whitewater in which the unwitting bought third rate property 50 miles from the nearest grocery store and, thanks to the sleazy financing, about half the purchasers, many of them seniors, lost their property.

IN 1993 HILLARY CLINTON and David Watkins moved to oust the White House travel office in favor of World Wide Travel, Clinton's source of $1 million in fly-now-pay-later campaign trips that essentially financed the last stages of the campaign without the bother of reporting a de facto contribution. The White House fired seven long-term employees for alleged mismanagement and kickbacks. The director, Billy Dale, charged with embezzlement, was acquitted in less than two hours by the jury.

HRC'S 1994 HEALTH CARE PLAN, according to one account, included fines of up to $5,000 for refusing to join the government-mandated health plan, $5,000 for failing to pay premiums on time, 15 years to doctors who received "anything of value" in exchange for helping patients short-circuit the bureaucracy, $10,000 a day for faulty physician paperwork, $50,000 for unauthorized patient treatment, and $100,000 a day for drug companies that messed up federal filings.

TWO MONTHS after commencing the Whitewater scheme, Hillary Clinton invested $1,000 in cattle futures. Within a few days she had a $5,000 profit. Before bailing out she earns nearly $100,000 on her investment. Many years later, several economists will calculate that the chances of earning such returns legally were one in 250 million.

IN 1996, Hillary Clinton's Rose law firm billing records, sought for two years by congressional investigators and the special prosecutor were found in the back room of the personal residence at the White House. Clinton said she had no idea how they got there.

DRUG DEALER Jorge Cabrera gave enough to the Democrats to have his picture taken with both Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. . . Cabrera was arrested in January 1996 inside a cigar warehouse near here in Dade County, where more than 500 pounds of cocaine had been hidden. He and several accomplices were charged with having smuggled 3,000 pounds of cocaine into the United States through the Keys

In 2000, Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign returned $22,000 in soft money to a businesswoman linked to a Democratic campaign contribution from a drug smuggler in Havana.

IN AUGUST 2000, Hillary Clinton held a huge Hollywood fundraiser for her Senate campaign. It was very successful. The only problem was that, by a long shot, she didn't report all the money contributed: $800K by the US government's ultimate count in a settlement and $2 million according to the key contributor and convicted con Peter Paul. This is, in election law, the moral equivalent of not reporting a similar amount on your income tax. It is a form of fraud. Hillary Clinton's defense is that she didn't know about it

HILLARY CLINTON'S participation in a Whitewater related land deal became suspicious enough to trigger an investigation by the Arkansas Supreme Court.

IN 2007, A Pakistani immigrant who hosted fundraisers for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton became a target of the FBI allegations that he funneled illegal contributions to Clinton's political action committee and to Sen. Barbara Boxer's 2004 re-election campaign. Authorities say Northridge, Calif., businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, 56, fled the country shortly after being indicted on charges of engineering more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the Democratic committees.

HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTED the appointment of Rudy Giuliani's buddy, Bernie Kerick, to be Secretary of Homeland Security,. Kerick subsecquently withdrew and not long after was indicted.

AP - Democrat John Edwards said the top strategist for presidential rival Hillary Rodham Clinton [Mark Penn] has ties to the controversial Blackwater security firm, and warned against installing "a group of corporate Democrats" to replace the Bush White House. Edwards suggested similarities between Clinton, the Democratic front-runner, and the Republican president. Penn, Clinton's pollster and senior strategist, is the worldwide president of Burson-Marsteller, a public relations firm. A subsidiary, BKSH, helped prepare Blackwater founder Erik Prince for a contentious congressional hearing this week, but Burson-Marsteller says the relationship has ended. Clinton's spokesman, Howard Wolfson, said Penn had done no work on the Blackwater account.

KATHRYN JOYCE AND JEFF SHARLET, MOTHER JONES - Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. . . Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ. . . [the leader's] friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

JOSHUA GREEN, THE ATLANTIC, 2006 - Clinton's proficiency in this innermost sanctum has unnerved some of the capital's most exalted religious conservatives. "You're not talking about some tree-hugging, Jesus-is-my-Buddha sort of stuff," says David Kuo, a former Bush official in the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, who worked with Clinton to promote joint legislation and who, like Brownback, has apologized to her for past misdeeds. "These are powerful evangelicals she's meeting with."

MICKEY KAUS - On page 93 of the new Gerth-Van Natta Hillary Clinton book, a sentence describes how, during the '92 campaign, Hillary herself "listened to a secretly recorded audiotape of a phone conversation of Clinton critics plotting their next attack. The tape contained discussions of another woman who might surface with allegations about an affair with Bill. Bill's supporters monitored frequencies used by cell phones, and the tape was made during one of those monitoring sessions."

SUN SENTINEL, FL - U.S. Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, of Weston, and Alcee Hastings, of Miramar, were appointed national campaign co-chairs on Thursday for U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's Democratic presidential effort. "We need a leader with a clear vision and sound judgment, who can work with a Democratic Congress to renew the promise of America. Hillary is that leader," Wasserman Schultz said in a statement. . . WIKIPEDIA - In 1981 Judge Hastings was charged with accepting a $150,000 bribe in exchange for a lenient sentence and a return of seized assets for 21 counts of racketeering by Frank and Thomas Romano, and of perjury in his testimony about the case. He was acquitted by a jury after his alleged co-conspirator, William Borders, refused to testify in court (resulting in a jail sentence for Borders).

CNS - A videotape shows New York Sen. Hillary Clinton. . . should be admitted as new evidence in a California civil case, a forthcoming legal brief to be filed by argues. The tape shows Clinton speaking in 2000 with Peter Paul, a Hollywood mogul, and comic book icon Stan Lee about a massive fundraising event for her 2000 Senate race. Paul spent about $2 million of his own money to produce the event. The legal contribution limit to a candidate then was $2,000. . . A portion of the videotape captures the closing words of a lengthy conversation in which Paul was present. The voice of Hillary Clinton is heard telling Lee that Paul and her chief campaign aide "talk all the time, so she'll be the person to convey whatever I need." She is then heard adding, "I wanted to call and personally thank all of you ... [and] tell you how much this means to me. It's going to mean a lot to the president, too." Clinton and her supporters have maintained that she had no direct knowledge that the event violated campaign finance rules. In a written declaration for the California court filed on April 7, 2006, the senator said only that she didn't remember discussions with Paul about the fundraiser.

DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN, NEWSMAX - Since he left office in 2001, former president Bill Clinton has been paid by $3.3 million by Info USA, an Omaha, Nebraska company that has been identified as a key provider of specially designed databases that have been sold to criminals who use the detailed information to defraud the unsuspecting elderly. . . According to the New York Times, Info USA compiled and sold lists that disclosed the names of elderly men and women who would be likely to respond to unscrupulous scams. The lists left no doubt about the vulnerability of the elderly targets. The Times reported, for example, that Info USA advertised lists of "Elderly Opportunity Seekers," 3.3 million older people "looking for ways to make money," and "Suffering Seniors," 4.7 million people with cancer or Alzheimer's disease. "Oldies but Goodies" contained 500,000 gamblers over 55 years old, for 8.5 cents

MIKE McINTIRE, NY TIMES - When former President Bill Clinton and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton took a family vacation in January 2002 to Acapulco, Mexico, one of their longtime supporters, Vinod Gupta, provided his company's private jet to fly them there. The company, Info USA, one of the nation's largest brokers of information on consumers, paid $146,866 to ferry the Clintons, Mr. Gupta and others to Acapulco and back, court records show. During the next four years, Info USA paid Mr. Clinton more than $2 million for consulting services, and spent almost $900,000 to fly him around the world for his presidential foundation work and to fly Mrs. Clinton to campaign events. Those expenses are cited in a lawsuit filed late last year in a Delaware court by angry shareholders of Info USA, who assert that Mr. Gupta wasted the company's money trying "to ingratiate himself" with his high-profile guests"t

SAM SMITH, 'SHADOWS OF HOPE,' 1994 - During the first months of the Clinton administration, one of the biggest national policy changes of the past fifty years was being forged by a secret committee led by Mrs. Clinton under procedures that periodically defied the courts and the Government Accounting Office . . , Despite the contrary evidence of public opinion polls, the concept of Canadian-style single-payer insurance was dismissed early. Tom Hamburger and Ted Marmor in the Washington Monthly tell of a single-payer proponent being invited to the White House in February 1993. It was, he said, a "pseudo-co­nsultation­;" the doctor was quickly informed that "single payer is not politically feasible." When Dr. David Himmelstein of the Harvard Medical School pressed Mrs. Clinton on single payer, she replied, "Tell me something interesting, David." In other words, write Hamburger and Marmor: "Fewer than six weeks into the Clinton presidency, the White House had made its key policy decision: Before the Health Care Task Force wrote a single page of its 22-volume report to the President, the single payer idea was written off, and "managed competition" was in.". . . Reported Thomas Bodenehimer in Nation: "Around Hillary Rodham Clinton's health reform table sit the managed-competition winners: big business, hospitals, large (but not small) commercial insurers, the Blues, budget-worried government leaders and the 'Jackson Hole Group,' the chief intellectual honchos of the managed competition movement. . . Adherence to the mantra of managed competition appears to be the price of a ticket of admission to this gathering. "

LA TIMES - A Pakistani immigrant who hosted fundraisers for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is being sought by the FBI on allegations that he funneled illegal contributions to Clinton's political action committee and to Sen. Barbara Boxer's 2004 re-election campaign. Authorities say Northridge, Calif., businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, 56, fled the country shortly after being indicted on charges of engineering more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the Democratic committees. A business associate charged as Jinnah's co-conspirator has entered a guilty plea and is scheduled to be sentenced in Los Angeles next week. A federal law enforcement source said prosecutors had not dealt with the political committees in conducting their investigation and had no evidence that the committees knew the contributions were illegal.

DICK MORRIS AND EILEEN MCGANN, JEWISH WORLD REVIEW - With each new disclosure, Bill and Hillary Clinton's connection between the emir of Dubai, Sheik Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, seems ever more intimate. Last February, Sen. Clinton was out front in condemning DP World, a Dubai government-owned company seeking to take over key operations at American ports. But, at the same time, Bill was advising the emir to hire his former press secretary, Joe Lockhart, to get the deal approved. Back then, Lockhart denied working for the emir. And when Bill's role became public, Hillary claimed that she had no idea that he had any involvement in the DP World issue. Now, it turns out that the emir's Dubai International Capital Corp. hired Lockhart's company, Glover Park Group, by last April to help with another U.S. deal - a takeover of two defense firms. The relationship between the Clintons and the emir has long been too close to avoid scrutiny. Something is driving up Bill and Hillary's net worth pretty dramatically. In 2003, Sen. Clinton disclosed assets of at least $352,000 but less than $3.8 million. By 2005, she was declaring assets in the $10 million to $50 million range. . .

WALL STREET JOURNAL - The core of [HRC'S] team includes several staunch loyalists from her husband's time in power, including former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, former United Nations ambassador Richard Holbrooke, and Samuel "Sandy" Berger, who succeeded Mr. Lake as national security adviser during Mr. Clinton's second term. . . WIKIPEDIA - In April 2005, Berger plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington. According to the lead prosecutor in the case Berger only took copies of classified information and that no original material was destroyed, however there is notable controversy and speculation that he might have removed or destroyed originals of other unknown documents as well.
DETAILS

HILLARY CLINTON HEAVY INTO RIGHTWING RELIGIOUS POWER CULT

HILLARY CLINTON'S RIGHTWING RECORD ON INTERNATIONAL LAW

STEPHEN ZUNES, FOREIGN POLICY IN FOCUS - Senator Hillary Clinton has opposed restrictions on U.S. arms transfers and police training to governments that engage in gross and systematic human rights abuses. Indeed, she has supported unconditional U.S. arms transfers and police training to such repressive and autocratic governments as Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Pakistan, Equatorial Guinea, Azerbaijan, Cameroon, Kazakhstan, and Chad, just to name a few. She has also refused to join many of her Democratic colleagues in signing a letter endorsing a treaty that would limit arms transfers to countries that engage in a consistent pattern of gross and systematic human rights violations.
Civilian Casualties

Not only is she willing to support military assistance to repressive regimes, she has little concern about controlling weapons that primarily target innocent civilians. Senator Clinton has refused to support the international treaty to ban land mines, which are responsible for killing and maiming thousands of civilians worldwide, a disproportionate percentage of whom have been children.

She was also among a minority of Democratic Senators to side with the Republican majority last year in voting down a Democratic­-sponsored resolution restricting U.S. exports of cluster bombs to countries that use them against civilian-populated areas. Each of these cluster bomb contains hundreds of bomblets that are scattered over an area the size of up to four football fields and, with a failure rate of up to 30%, become de facto land mines. As many as 98% of the casualties caused by these weapons are civilians.

Senator Clinton also has a record of dismissing reports by human rights monitors that highlight large-scale attacks against civilians by allied governments. For example, in the face of widespread criticism by reputable human rights organizations over Israel's systematic assaults against civilian targets in its April 2002 offensive in the West Bank, Senator Clinton co-sponsored a resolution defending the Israeli actions that claimed that they were "necessary steps to provide security to its people by dismantling the terrorist infrastructure in the Palestinian areas." She opposed UN efforts to investigate alleged war crimes by Israeli occupation forces and criticized President Bush for calling on Israel to pull back from its violent re-conquest of Palestinian cities in violation of UN Security Council resolutions.

Similarly, when Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other reputable human rights groups issued detailed reports regarding Israeli war crimes during that country's assault on Lebanon in the summer of 2006, Senator Clinton insisted they were wrong and that Israel's attacks were legal. Furthermore, though these groups had also criticized the radical Lebanese group Hezbollah for committing war crimes by firing rockets into civilian-populated areas in Israel, exhaustive investigations have revealed absolutely no evidence that they had used the civilian population as "human shields" to protect themselves from Israeli assaults. Despite this, Senator Clinton, without providing any credible evidence to the contrary, still insists that they in fact had used human shields and were therefore responsible for the death of more than 800 Lebanese civilians.

Senator Clinton has voted to send tens of billions of dollars unconditionally to Baghdad to prop up that regime, apparently unconcerned about the well-documented reports of death squads being run from the Interior Ministry that have killed many thousands of unarmed Sunni men.

In Senator Clinton's world view, if a country is considered an important strategic ally of the United States, any charges of human rights abuses – no matter how strong the evidence – must be summarily dismissed. Indeed, despite the Israeli government's widespread and well-documented violations of international humanitarian law, Senator Clinton has praised Israel for its "values that respect the dignity and rights of human beings."

IT'S COST THE TAXPAYERS $2.3 BILLION TO KEEP HILLARY IN THE SENATE

LA TIMES - To fuel her rise, Clinton has relied on the controversial funding device known as "earmarkin­g." The earmarks enabled her to win favor with important constituents, many of whom provided financial support for her campaigns. . . Since taking office in 2001, Clinton has delivered $500 million worth of earmarks that have specifically benefited 59 corporations. About 64% of those corporations provided funds to her campaigns through donations made by employees, executives, board members or lobbyists, a review by the Los Angeles Times shows.

All told, Clinton has earmarked more than $2.3 billion in federal appropriations for projects in her state since her election to the Senate, much of it for public works projects funded in conjunction with fellow Democratic Sen. Charles E. Schumer and others in the New York congressional delegation.

CATALOG OF HILLARY CLINTON'S LIES

STUART TAYLOR JR, NATIONAL JOURNAL - Let's take a trip down memory lane -- from the tawdriness of the 1992 presidential campaign through the mendacity of the ensuing years -- to revisit a sampling of why so many of us came to think that Hillary's first instinct when in an embarrassing spot is to lie.

Gennifer and Monica: Former lounge singer Gennifer Flowers surfaced in early 1992 with claims -- corroborated by tapes of phone calls -- that she had had a long affair with then-Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton, who had arranged a state job for her. Bill Clinton told the media, falsely, that the woman's "story is untrue."

Although well aware of her husband's philandering history, Hillary backed his squishy denials, famously asserting on "60 Minutes" that she was not "some little woman standing by her man like Tammy Wynette." More deceptively, she suggested to ABC's Sam Donaldson that Bill's contacts with Flowers were just an example of how he loved to "help people who are in trouble" and "listen to their problems."

"Hillary's words uncannily foreshadowed her insistence six years later to ... a White House aide that Bill had 'ministered' to [Monica] Lewinsky because she was a troubled young woman," Sally Bedell Smith writes in her fine new book about the Clintons, For Love of Politics. Hillary has continued to insist that she believed what she said about Lewinsky. But friends and former aides have told Smith and others that she knew her husband was lying all along.

Travelgate: The first Clinton scandal after Bill became president started in May 1993, when Chief of Staff Mack McLarty fired the seven employees in the White House office that arranges travel for the press corps. The White House cited gross financial mismanagement. (The charge was never substantia­ted.) The sudden firings created a media uproar, especially when the dismissed employees were quickly replaced by friends and relatives of the Clintons.

Hillary later told the General Accounting Office, in a document prepared by her attorney, that she had no role in the decision to fire the employees, did not know the "origin of the decision," and "did not direct that any action be taken by anyone" other than keeping her informed.

But her statements were contradicted by evidence, including a long-concealed memo to McLarty and a written chronology prepared by White House aide David Watkins that came to light years later. Hillary, Watkins wrote, had said that "we need those people out and we need our people in" and had made it clear that "there would be hell to pay" unless she got "immediate action." Another aide wrote that Hillary intimate Susan Thomases had said, "Hillary wants these people fired."

While saying that no provable crime had been committed, Robert Ray, who had succeeded Kenneth Starr as independent counsel, reported in October 2000 that Hillary's statements had been "factually false" and that there was "overwhelming evidence that she in fact did have a role in the decision to fire the employees.­"

Cattle futures: The New York Times revealed in March 1994 that in 1978, just before her husband became governor, Hillary had made a $100,000 profit on a $1,000 investment in highly speculative cattle-futures contracts in only nine months. Hillary's first explanation (through aides) of this extraordinary windfall was that she had made the investment after "reading The Wall Street Journal" and placed all the trades herself after seeking advice from "numerous people." It was so preposterous that she soon had to abandon it. Eventually, she had to admit that longtime Clinton friend James Blair had executed 30 of her 32 trades directly with an Arkansas broker.

In an April 1994 press conference, Hillary denied knowing of "any favorable treatment" by Blair. But the astronomical odds against any financial novice making a 10,000 percent profit without the game being rigged led many to believe that Blair, the outside counsel to Arkansas-based poultry giant Tyson Foods, must have put only profitable trades in Hillary's account and absorbed her losses. The heavily regulated Tyson needed friends in high places, and Bill Clinton helped it pass a 1983 state law raising weight limits on chicken trucks.

Removal of Vince Foster documents: During the same press conference, Hillary was asked why her then-chief of staff, Maggie Williams, had been involved in removing documents from the office of Deputy White House Counsel Vince Foster after his suicide. Foster had been a partner of Hillary's at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Ark. "I don't know that she did remove any documents," Hillary said. But it was reported three months later that Hillary had instructed Williams to remove the Foster documents to the White House residence. Then they were turned over to Clinton attorney Bob Barnett.

Castle Grande: In the summer of 1995, the Resolution Trust Corp. reported that Hillary had been one of 11 Rose Law Firm lawyers who had done work in the mid-1980s on an Arkansas real estate development, widely known as Castle Grande, promoted by James McDougal and Seth Ward. McDougal headed a troubled thrift, Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan, and had given Hillary legal business as a favor to Bill. McDougal and his wife, Susan, were the Clintons' partners in their Whitewater real estate investment. Ward was father-in-law to Webb Hubbell, another former Rose Law Firm partner, who was briefly Clinton's associate attorney general in 1993. Later, Hubbell went to prison for fraud, as did James McDougal.

Castle Grande was a sewer of sham transactions, some used to funnel cash into Madison Guaranty. Castle Grande's ultimate collapse contributed to that of the thrift, which cost taxpayers millions. Hillary told federal investigators that she knew nothing about Castle Grande. When it turned out that more than 30 of her 60 hours of legal work for Madison Guaranty involved Castle Grande, she said she had known the project under a different name. A 1996 Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. report said that she had drafted documents that Castle Grande used to "deceive federal bank examiners.­"

Prosecutors later came to believe that Hillary had padded her bills; she "wasn't guilty of [knowingly] facilitating nefarious transactions -- she was guilty of doing less work than she took credit for," Jeff Gerth and Don Van Natta Jr. explain in their 2007 biography, Her Way. Hillary herself never took refuge in this explanation.

Billing records: Hillary's billing records for Castle Grande were in a 116-page, 5-inch-thick computer printout that came to light under mysterious circumstances on January 4, 1996 -- 19 months after Starr's investigators had subpoenaed it and amid prosecutorial pressure on Clinton aides who had been strikingly forgetful. For most of that time, Hillary claimed that the billing records had vanished. But a longtime Hillary assistant named Carolyn Huber later admitted coming across the printout in August 1995 on a table in a storage area next to Hillary's office; Huber said she had put it into a box in her own office, without realizing for five more months that these were the subpoenaed billing records.

This implausible tale, on top of other deceptions, prompted New York Times columnist William Safire to write on January 8, 1996, that "our first lady ... is a congenital liar."

The next day, the White House press secretary said that the president wanted to punch Safire in the nose for insulting his wife. Five days later, the president invited Monica Lewinsky to the Oval Office for what turned out to be one of their 10 oral-sex sessions. Two years and 13 days after that, Hillary was on the "Today" show suggesting that her husband's Lewinsky affair was a lie concocted by "this vast right-wing conspiracy­."

http://nationaljournal.com/taylor.htm



HILLARY CLINTON claims she played pickup basketball when she was young, presumably to get ready for her race against Obama. Newsmax has compiled a list of other little known facts about HRC, an obscurity some feel is due to their non-existence:

- She was named after Sir Edmund Hillary. who climbed Mount Everest.

- She was a Yankees fan when she lived in Chicago.

- She told upstate New Yorkers she had been a "duck hunter."

- She claimed on Sept. 11 daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center.



HRC AND WEBSTER HUBBELL

SUSAN SCHMIDT, WASH POST, 1998 - Independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr yesterday secured a new federal indictment of Webster L. Hubbell, alleging that the former top Justice Department official lied to Congress and federal banking regulators to conceal work that he, Hillary Rodham Clinton and their law firm did in the mid-1980s for a rogue savings and loan.

The 15-count indictment alleges that Hubbell covered up the Rose Law Firm's involvement in a phony multimillion-dollar land deal that caused losses big enough to bankrupt Madison Guaranty S&L, the thrift owned by the late James B. McDougal, the Clintons' Whitewater business partner. Hillary Clinton's legal work for Madison in the mid-1980s is referred to throughout the indictment but she is accused of no wrongdoing. . .

Hubbell pleaded guilty in 1994 to charges lodged by the independent counsel that he bilked Rose Law Firm clients and partners. . .

The independent counsel lodged no Whitewater charges in his impeachment report to Congress on President Clinton and closed down his Arkansas office months ago without bringing charges against Hillary Clinton. The Hubbell indictment was issued by a grand jury here. . .

While Hillary Clinton's name is not mentioned in the indictment, her actions are described, albeit obliquely. She is mentioned some 35 times throughout the indictment, but only as Rose's "1985-86 billing partner" for the Madison account. The document describes some of her work on Madison's ill-fated Castle Grande project, an 1,100-acre industrial and trailer park development south of Little Rock.

Some of the loans that the accountants were blamed for allowing Madison to make were Castle Grande transactions that Hillary Clinton and Hubbell worked on for his father-in-law, Seth Ward. The indictment charges that Hubbell falsely told regulators and Congress he did no work on Castle Grande matters and was not aware of what work Rose did for Madison.

The indictment contends that Hillary Clinton prepared a real estate option agreement used by Madison officials to deceive federal regulators about hundreds of thousands of dollars in bogus real estate commissions that were being paid to Ward. While charging there was a scheme to hide the commissions and the tottering condition of the thrift, the indictment makes no allegation that Hillary Clinton knew anything about it. . .

Starr also has been investigating payments of more than $700,000 in consulting fees to Hubbell from Clinton allies and Democratic Party supporters after he left the Justice Department in the spring of 1994 amid allegations he defrauded his former firm and clients.

LYING FOR HILLARY

One of the issues that came up in a lengthy suit (American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc, et al. v. Hillary Rodham Clinton, et al.) was whether White House aide Ira Magaziner, speaking on behalf of Hillary Clinton's health task force, told the truth when he claimed that only federal employees were members of the group. This was found to be false and Judge Royce Lamberth issued an opinion, part of which follows:

"[I]t is clear that the decisions here were made at the highest levels of government, and that the government itself is--and should be--accountable when its officials run amok. . . The court agrees with plaintiffs that these were not reckless and inept errors taken by bewildered counsel. The Executive Branch of the government, working in tandem, was dishonest with this court. . . .

"The Department of Justice has a long tradition of setting the highest standards of conduct for all lawyers, and it is a sad day when this court must conclude, as did the United States Attorney in his investigation, that the Department of Justice succumbed to pressure from White House attorneys and others to provide this court with "strained interpretations" that were "ultimately unconvinci­ng."

"It seems that some government officials never learn that the cover-up can be worse than the underlying conduct. Most shocking to this court, and deeply disappointing, is that the Department of Justice would participate in such conduct. This was not an issue of good faith word games being played with the Court. . . . The United States Attorney found that the most controversial sentence of the Magaziner declaration--"Only federal government employees serve as members of the interdepartmental working group"--could not be prosecuted under the perjury statute because the issue of "membership" within the working group was a fuzzy one, and no generally agreed upon "membership" criteria were ever written down. Therefore, the Magaziner declaration was actually false because of the implication of the declaration that "membership" was a meaningful concept and that one could determine who was and was not a "member" of the working group. . . "

PROGRESSIVE REVIEW, 1997 - It was just symbolic and, in the end, the money comes out of our pockets but at least one judge has called the White House for lying, assessing a fine of over a quarter of a million dollars. As the above excerpt from Judge Lamberth's opinion indicates, this was no minor peccadillo but rather, "The Executive Branch of the government, working in tandem, was dishonest with this court." At issue was the composition of Hillary Clinton's health task force, a body stacked with those from the medical industry who would gain most from the faux reforms of the Clintonistas.

You might think a federal judge calling one of Mrs. Clinton's top aides a liar would be big news, but the Washington Post found room on its front page for "Seniors Strut Their Stuff in Pool Pageant" while burying the health care story on page 21 under a boring headline. That was nine pages better than the New York Times, which ran the story under "Judge Rules Government Covered Up Lies on Panel," hardly descriptive of the story's significance.

ATTORNEY CLINTON

During the 1992 campaign, Hillary Clinton defended her role in the Madison Guarantee S&L scandal by saying, "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas. But what I decided to do was pursue my profession, which I entered before my husband was in public life."

Forgotten, however, is what inspired this homily: accusations that Ms. Clinton had represented Whitewater business partner Jim McDougal's S&L before her husband's government. Here's what the New York Times reported on March 17, 1992: "Hillary Clinton said today that she did not earn 'a penny' from state business conducted by her Little Rock law firm and that she never intervened with state regulators on behalf of a failed Arkansas savings and loan association. . . "

Records would show that she did, in fact, represent Madison before the state securities department. After the revelation, she says, "For goodness sakes, you can't be a lawyer if you don't represent banks."

Susan McDougal recalled Ms. Clinton coming in and drumming up the business. Ms. McDougal told the Washington Post: "The problem was finances, her finances." The Washington Times quoted an unnamed Clinton business associate who claimed the governor used to "jog over to McDougal's office about once a month to pick up the [retainer] check for his wife."

Jim McDougal's version of the story, according to the LA Times, was that Clinton asked him to throw some legal work his wife's way to help the Clintons out of a financial crunch: "I hired Hillary because Bill came in whimpering that they needed help."

Hillary Clinton wrote Jim McDougal enclosing a power of attorney for him to sign "authorizing me to act on your behalf with respect to matters concerning Whitewater Development Corporatio­n." Another power of attorney was enclosed for Susan McDougal. The power of attorney included the right to endorse, sign and execute "checks, notes, deeds, agreements, certificates, receipts or any other instruments in writing of all matters related to Whitewater Development Corporatio­n."

This letter, uncovered in 1993 by Jerry Seper of the Washington Times, directly contradicted the claim of the Clintons that they were "passive shareholders" in Whitewater.

From a 1996 Chicago Tribune editorial: "The legal issues will sort themselves out in time. But one thing has become all too clear. Bill and Hillary Clinton and their aides have made a concerted effort to deceive official investigators and the American public with half truths and outright lies . . . It's not clear what the Clintons want to conceal, but it's clear that they have made extraordinary efforts to do so."

WHITEWATER

WHAT WHITEWATER WAS ALL ABOUT: Almost totally lost in the Clinton saga known as Whitewater is what Whitewater was originally all about. It was basically a land resort scam of the sort that local TV stations win awards for exposing. Here's how it happened:

In the late 1970s, the Clintons and McDougals buy land in the Ozarks with mostly borrowed funds. The Clintons get 50% interest with no cash down. The plot, known as Whitewater, is fifty miles from the nearest grocery store. The Washington Post will report later that some purchasers of lots, many of them retirees, "put up houses or cabins, others slept in vans or tents, hoping to be able to live off the land." HRC writes Jim McDougal, said that "If Reagonomics works at all, Whitewater could become the Western Hemisphere's Mecca." More than half of the purchasers will lose their plots thanks to the sleazy form of financing used. The McDougals will be among a number of close HRC's friends and business associates who will end up in jail..

HRC AND ETHNIC SLURS

Virtually no attention has been given to Hillary's Clinton's reported anti-Jewish statements. This is another example of the impenetrable media bubble placed around HRC since her husband first ran for president.

There have been a few exceptions. For example, in August 2000, the NY Post reported:

"The Arkansas man who accused Hillary Rodham Clinton last month of uttering an anti-Semitic slur in 1974 has passed a lie-detector test arranged by The Post. Paul Fray, who has charged Mrs. Clinton called him a "f- - -ing Jew bastard" after Bill Clinton lost his race for Congress, cleared the polygraph exam administered Sunday near his home here. "There's no doubt in my mind that Mr. Fray is truthful," concluded state-licensed Arkansas polygrapher Jeff Hubanks, who gave the three-hour test. . . The findings were reviewed yesterday by another expert, Richard Keifer, a former head of the FBI's polygraph unit who has 20 years of experience. Keifer judged the results "inconclusive" because they didn't meet the high federal polygraph standards - but said he found nothing to indicate Fray was lying. Clinton campaign spokesman Howard Wolfson said, "Paul Fray is an admitted liar, and we're not going to be responding to his lies anymore."

That same year former Arkansas state trooper Larry Patterson claimed that in their frequent arguments, Bill and Hillary Clinton would use such expressions as "Jew motherf*cker," "Jew Boy" and "Jew Bastard."

That same year, the Review discussed the issue of how the media handles these matters:

PROGRESSIVE REVIEW, 2000 - The kid gloves treatment of Hillary Clinton's alleged ethnic slurs is, of course, in marked contrast to the media handling of, say, John Rocker, Louis Farrakhan or Jesse Jackson. But she is not the only one who has been give a pass. A reader sends along a 1997 issue of the Progressive with an article by Susan Douglas that includes this:

"As ABC News reminded us over and over, the lesson from Tiger Woods's victory is 'that anyone can make it to the top.' Woods was immediately canonized by every news outlet in the land as a breakthrough, trans-racial saint, an agent of integration and goodwill. The newscasters genuflected. Once again, the future of western civilization was freighted onto the shoulders of the latest guy who can throw/hit/kick a ball. The media pilloried pro-golfer Fuzzy Zoeller for making racist remarks about fried chicken and collard greens. But they have virtually ignored Woods's own racist, sexist, and homophobic remarks.

"In the April issue of GQ, Woods speculated that 'good-looking women hang around baseball and basketball' because 'black guys have big dicks.' And he asks: Why do lesbians always get to their destination so quickly? He answers: 'Because lesbians are always going sixty-nine­.' This doesn't fit into the pack journalism "new-messiah" image, now does it? So just let it slide."

But the current masters of applying multiple standards to matters claimed to be worthy of zero tolerance may well be the Blair government. Not only was Tony Blair's campaign to end under-aged drinking in bars celebrated by his son turning up dead drunk on a London sidewalk, but Home Secretary Jack Straw, riding in a car driven by a special branch officer, was pulled over for doing 103 mph on a motorway. The incident occurred at 8:55 am as Straw was rushing to a meeting with Blair, perhaps to discuss new measures to make the British behave. Straw, hit man for Blair's zero tolerance policies, also has a son who got into trouble with the police after selling ten pounds (sterling) of marijuana to an undercover reporter.

Whatever the facts of the matter, the accusation in a new book that Hillary Clinton called one of her staffers a "Jew bastard" in 1974 adds a significant new problem to her already troubled effort. Clinton flatly denied the incident ever happened and quoted her husband as saying, "I was there on election night in 1974 and this charge is simply not true."

The campaign also produced a 1997 handwritten letter from the man allegedly excoriated, Paul Fray, to Hillary Clinton in which he says, "I have wronged you. I ask for your forgiveness because I did say things against you, and called you names, not only to your face -- but behind your back . . . names that are unmentiona­ble." The circumstances under which Fray allegedly wrote the letter are not clear but the document is reminiscent of the affidavits signed by various women denying being sexually involved with Clinton's husband. The Clintons have the largest collection of affidavits and letters attesting to alleged non-events to be found in contemporary politics.

Fray's comments, quoted in Jerry Oppenheimer's new book, "State of a Union," have been verified not only by his wife but by another Clinton aide at the time, Neill McDonald.

According to Michael Kramer in the NY Daily News:

"The slur allegedly was uttered at a heated, finger-pointing session at Bill Clinton's Fayetteville, Ark., campaign headquarters on election night in 1974, following his defeat in his first try for political office, a run for Congress in Arkansas' 3rd Congressional District. In the room that night were Bill Clinton; his then-girlfriend, Hillary Rodham; Paul Fray, Clinton's campaign manager, and Fray's wife, Mary Lee. Another campaign worker, Neill McDonald, was just outside the door and says he heard everything. The story of that encounter has been widely reported before, but without any charge that Hillary Rodham ripped into Paul Fray using an anti-Semitic slur. In interviews with The News on Friday and Saturday, the Frays and McDonald all confirmed that Hillary uttered the slur. McDonald said Hillary was speaking in the "heat of battle" and that he doesn't believe she is an anti-Semite. McDonald added that he is and has always been a supporter of the Clintons."­. . .

Dick Morris has joined the fracas, repeating his previous claims that on one occasion HR Clinton said to him, "Money, that's all you people care about is money." Morris says he responded, "By money, Hillary, by you people, I assume you mean political consultants?" And she said, 'Oh yes, of course that's what I mean.' But it wasn't what I thought she meant."

The president had risen to HR Clinton's defense but his credentials are more than a little suspect ever since the tapes of his conversations with Gennifer Flowers, which included this Flowers comment on Mario Cuomo: "Well, he seems like he could get real mean . . . I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have some mafioso major connection­s." And Clinton replies, "Well, he acts like one."

And then there's that police sting video of Roger Clinton saying he has to get some cocaine for his brother who has a nose like a vacumn cleaner, in which Roger makes free use of the word nigger, a term trooper Patterson says he also heard from WJ Clinton when talking about Jesse Jackson and prominent Little Rock black figure, Robert 'Say' McIntosh.

CATTLE FUTURES

TWO MONTHS after commencing the Whitewater scheme, Hillary Clinton invested $1,000 in cattle futures. Within a few days she has a $5,000 profit. Before bailing out she earns nearly $100,000 on her investment. Many years later, several economists will calculate that the chances of earning such returns legally were one in 250 million.

AGBIZ TILLER - Mrs. Clinton's ability to turn $1000 into a near $100,000 in ten months of futures trading, a congressional study would learn, coincided with a period of time that a select group of executives from packing houses, grain companies, feedlot operators and commodity brokers reaped tens of millions of dollars in an "insider" trading scheme in the cattle futures market. . . Between February, 1978 and April, 1979 some 32 cattle industry insiders made profits of $110 million by selling cattle futures after they received some 15 "secret signals," which was followed within an average two and one half day period, by a marked drop in cattle future prices. Then Rep. Neal Smith (Dem.-Iowa­), chairman of the House Small Business Committee, which released the report in February, 1981 noted that in all a total of some 1027 individuals made total net profits of approximately $156 million. Thus, three percent of the large traders --- those with 50 contracts or more --- with correlated trading activity and/or common business affiliations accounted for 70% of the total net profits of this group of traders. Mrs. Clinton traded 50 or more contracts three times . . .

A previous USDA study in 1979, for example, pointed out that during 20 of the 21 months preceding October, 1979 there was not a single day in which a farmer-feeder could have used the futures market to hedge in a profit and only five days in the remaining month that the farmer-feeder could have broken even . . . Meanwhile, the eight largest packers, who at the time were slaughtering 44% of the nation's beef, held over one-half of the futures contracts and made twice as much money in the futures market as they did in trading cattle . . . In all, between February, 1978 and December, 1980, some 29 "secret signals" were given although Smith's Committee staff made no estimates on the profits earned after April, 1979 . . . There are estimates that 75% to 95% of individual investors lose money in commodity futures markets.

WASHINGTON TIMES, 2007 - Mrs. Clinton initially explained her success by claiming to have done all her own research studying the Wall Street Journal. Then she admitted that Jim Blair, the outside counsel for Tyson Foods, advised her and placed most of her trades. Mr. Blair helped her open her trading account in mid-October 1978. That was three weeks before her husband rode to certain victory (63 percent of the vote) in his race for Arkansas governor, a position from which he would enforce the state's environmental policies affecting chicken waste and appoint numerous regulatory officials overseeing Tyson. The odds of a retail trader executing the intraday transactions that generated a 530 percent overnight return, which Mrs. Clinton achieved on her first day, "are about the same as [the odds] of finding the Dead Sea Scrolls on the steps of the State House in Little Rock," according to estimates by Wall Street Journal financial columnist Caroline Baum and commodities speculator Victor Niederhoffer in their devastating account of Mrs. Clinton's trading activity.

HRC AND WAL-MART

WARD HARKAVY, VILLAGE VOICE 2000 - Twice in three days last week, Hillary Rodham Clinton basked in the adulation of cheering union . . . They would have dropped their forks if they had heard that Hillary served for six years on the board of the dreaded Wal-Mart, a union-busting behemoth. If they had learned the details of her friendship with Wal-Mart, they might have lost their lunches. . .

As she was leaving the dais, she ignored a reporter's question about Wal-Mart, and she ignored it again when she strode by reporters in the hotel lobby.

But there are questions. In 1986, when Hillary was first lady of Arkansas, she was put on the board of Wal-Mart. Officials at the time said she wasn't filling a vacancy. In May 1992, as Hubby's presidential campaign heated up, she resigned from the board of Wal-Mart. Company officials said at the time that they weren't going to fill her vacancy.

So what the hell was she doing on the Wal-Mart board? According to press accounts at the time, she was a show horse at the company's annual meetings when founder Sam Walton bused in cheering throngs to celebrate his non-union empire, which is headquartered in Arkansas, one of the country's poorest states. According to published reports, she was placed in charge of the company's "green" program to protect the environment.

But nobody got greener than Sam Walton and his family. For several years in the '80s, he was judged the richest man in America by Forbes magazine; his fortune zoomed into the billions until he split it up among relatives. It's no surprise that Hillary is a strong supporter of free trade with China. Wal-Mart, despite its "Buy American" advertising campaign, is the single largest U.S. importer, and half of its imports come from China.

Was Hillary the voice of conscience on the board for American and foreign workers? Contemporary accounts make no mention of that. They do describe her as a "corporate litigator" in those days, and they mention, speaking of environmental matters, that she also served on the board of Lafarge, a company that, according to a press account, once burned hazardous fuels to run its cement plants. . .

And the Clintons depended on Wal-Mart's largesse not only for Hillary's regular payments as a board member but for travel expenses on Wal-Mart planes and for heavy campaign contributions to Bill's campaigns there and nationally. . .

During the same period, small towns all over America began complaining that Wal-Mart was squeezing out ma-and-pa stores and leaving little burgs throughout the Midwest and South with downtowns that featured little more than empty storefronts.

MOTHER JONES, 2003 - More than two-thirds of all Wal-Mart employees are women -- yet women make up less than 10 percent of top store managers. Back when she was first lady of Arkansas, Hillary Clinton became the first woman appointed to the Wal-Mart board, and tried to get the company to hire more women managers, but that effort apparently went the way of national health insurance. Wal-Mart today has the same percentage of women in management that the average company had in 1975.

LISA FEATHERSTONE, NATION, 2005 - Unlike so many horrible things, Wal-Mart cannot be blamed on George W. Bush. The Arkansas-based company prospered under the state's native son Bill Clinton when he was governor and President. Sam Walton and his wife, Helen, were close to the Clintons, and for several years Hillary Clinton, whose law firm represented Wal-Mart, served on the company's board of directors. Bill Clinton's "welfare reform" has provided Wal-Mart with a ready workforce of women who have no choice but to accept its poverty wages and discriminatory policies.

FLAG BURNING

ST PETERSBURG TIMES EDITORIAL, 2005 - Sen. Hillary Clinton's decision to co-sponsor a bill to make it a crime to burn the American flag amounts to political pandering of the worst kind. She was against outlawing flag-burning before she was for it.

The New York Democrat says she opposes a constitutional amendment to ban flag-burning but has signed on to a bill that would ostensibly accomplish the same thing by federal statute. Her position is unprincipled. Clinton may think this is a middle-ground position with broad political appeal, but most people will see it for what it is. . .

The measure she has co-sponsored along with Sen. Robert Bennett, R-Utah, is the Flag Protection Act of 2005. One provision would make it a crime punishable by up to a year in jail and a $100,000 fine, to burn an American flag of "any size" if a person knows that it is "likely to produce imminent violence or a breach of the peace."

The crime is not the act of burning the flag (since old and tattered flags are burned regularly by veteran groups) but to burn a flag in criticism of the American government when someone is nearby who cannot control his impulses. This gives remarkable power to those in our society who resort to violence in response to disturbing speech and messages.

The Democratic Party doesn't need another candidate who lacks the backbone to take a clear, principled stand, and it certainly doesn't need a candidate who doesn't believe in the First Amendment.

JOHNNY CHUNG

CNN, MARCH 1998 - Democratic fund-raiser Johnny Chung has agreed to plead guilty to election law violations and cooperate in the ongoing Justice Department investigation into illegal campaign fund-raising in the 1996 elections. . . Chung became a major figure in the Democratic fund-raising scandal when it was learned he made almost 50 visits to the White House. During one visit, Chung gave first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton's then-chief of staff, Maggie Williams, a $50,000 check for the Democratic National Committee. The check was delivered inside the White House. Two days later Chung was able to bring a group of Chinese businessmen to watch President Bill Clinton deliver a radio address in the Oval Office. They then had their picture taken with the president. The DNC returned more than $300,000 that Chung raised because of questions about the source of the money.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/03/05/chung.pleads/

MANA FROM HAVANA

NY POST, 2000 - Hillary Rodham Clinton's Senate campaign returned $22,000 in "soft money" to a businesswoman linked to a Democratic campaign contribution from a drug smuggler in Havana. The donation by Vivian Mannerud Verble, first reported by The Post, was the largest single contribution received by Clinton's soft-money committee. Verble, whose company runs charter flights between Cuba and Miami, also served as the fund-raising intermediary between Jorge Cabrera and the Democratic National Committee in 1995, according to congressional investigators. The probers reportedly learned that Cabrera cut a $20,000 check to the DNC from a bank account in which he also kept profits from his lucrative cocaine trade. The DNC eventually returned the money, while Cabrera pleaded guilty to importing 6,000 pounds of cocaine into the United States. He is serving a 19-year federal prison sentence in Florida . . . Although Verble was never charged with any criminal wrongdoing, she was at the center of one of the most embarrassing fund-raising scandals in the Clinton administra­tion..

ANOTHER LAND DEAL

JERRY SEPER, WASHINGTON TIMES, 2000 - The Arkansas Supreme Court, which is considering disbarment proceedings against President Clinton, yesterday said it also is investigating whether first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton engaged in fraud in a questionable Whitewater-related land deal. The probe, confirmed by the court's Committee of Professional Conduct, has focused on accusations about Mrs. Clinton's legal representation of a failed Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan Association real estate venture, which the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. called a "sham." A major area of concern is an option agreement that facilitated a $300,000 payment to Seth Ward, father-in-law of Mrs. Clinton's law partner, Webster L. Hubbell. The option, written by Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Hubbell while they were at Little Rock's Rose Law Firm, guaranteed Mr. Ward a payoff and negated his liability in the project.

HILLARY CLINTON SAYS SOME TORTURE ACCEPTABLE

BEN SMITH, NY DAILY NEWS - Despite her apparent opposition to torture, Hillary Clinton said in a Daily News editorial board meeting yesterday that the practice is acceptable in some circumstances. Clinton got a rousing reception from the human rights community, and seemed to take an uncharacte­ristically bright-line stance, in a recent statement on the Senate floor during the debate over torture.

"Have we fallen so low as to debate how much torture we are willing to stomach?" she asked at one point, and left anti-torture commentators, and even Clinton critics like Andrew Sullivan, with the impression that she'd emerged into a kind of un-Clintonian moral clarity and said no to torture.

But at yesterday's Daily News editorial board meeting, it emerged that she's not actually against torture in all instances, and that her dispute with McCain and Bush is largely procedural.

She was asked about the "ticking time bomb" scenario, in which you've captured the terrorist and don't have time for a normal interrogation, and said that there is a place for what she called "severity," in a conversation that included mentioning water-boarding, hypothermia, and other techniques commonly described as torture.

"I have said that those are very rare but if they occur there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing that," she responded. "Again, I think the President has to take responsibility. There has to be some check and balance, some reporting. I don't mind if it's reporting in a top secret context. But that shouldn't be the tail that wags the dog, that should be the exception to the rule."

Asked again about these methods, she said:

"In those instances where we have sufficient basis to believe that there is something imminent, yeah, but then we've got to have a check and balance."

TO INDICT OR NOT TO INDICT

ON APRIL 27, 1998, deputy independent counsel Hickman Ewing met with his prosecutors to decide on whether to indict Hillary Clinton. Here's what happened as reported by Sue Schmidt and Michael Weisskopf in their book, "Truth at Any Cost:"

"[Ewing] paced the room for more than three hours, recalling facts from memory in his distinctive Memphis twang. He spoke passionately, laying out a case that the first lady had obstructed government investigators and made false statements about her legal work for McDougal's S & L, particularly the thrift's notorious multimillion-dollar Castle Grande real estate project. . .The biggest problem was the death a month earlier of Jim McDougal. . . Without him, prosecutors would have a hard time describing the S & L dealings they suspected Hillary Clinton had lied about."

CNN, MAR 18, 1999 - Deputy independent counsel Hickman Ewing testified at the Susan McDougal trial Thursday that he had written a "rough draft indictment" of first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton after he doubted her truthfulness in a deposition. Ewing, who questioned Mrs. Clinton in a deposition at the White House on April 22, 1995, said, "I had questions about whether what she was saying were accurate. We had no records. She was in conflict with a number of interviews­."

Ewing said those interviews by investigators were primarily with other people in the Rose Law Firm. Ewing said he had questioned Mrs. Clinton about her representation of Jim McDougal's Madison Guarantee Savings & Loan when she was at the Rose Law firm in Little Rock. "I don't know if she was telling the truth. I did not circulate the draft. I showed it to one lawyer (in the independent counsel's office) who said he didn't want to see it," Ewing said, under questioning from McDougal attorney Mark Geragos. . .

Ewing also testified that in a later deposition with both the president and first lady on July 22, 1995, he had questions about the truthfulness of both Clintons. McDougal's attorney Mark Geragos asked Ewing: "Did you say the Clintons were liars?" "I don't know if I used the 'L-word' but I expressed internally that I was concerned," Ewing said.

LINCOLN BEDROOM

FOX NEWS, 2000 - Hillary Rodham Clinton denied allegations that she or her fund-raisers offered overnight stays in the Lincoln Bedroom and Camp David to supporters of her Senate campaign. "We have friends and supporters come and spend time with us and spend the night with us that we are getting to know and who like spending time with us," Clinton said when questioned at a campaign stop at a western New York diner. "I don't see what's news about that." . . . White House staffers said that since the summer of 1999 there have been at least 26 instances in which people, mainly couples, were overnight guests after donating to the first lady's campaign or promising to do so. . . "The Lincoln Bedroom was never sold," Clinton said in 1997, when the White House released a list of 938 guests who had spent the night at the executive mansion up to that point in the Clinton presidency. The list included the names of political supporters, as well as entertainment luminaries and old Clinton friends

CASTLE GRANDE

1999 Mrs. Clinton is mentioned 36 times in the fraud indictment against Webster Hubbell. Writes the AP's Peter Yost: "Starr alleges Hubbell concealed his own and Mrs. Clinton's work during the 1980s on a failed Arkansas land deal, known as Castle Grande, that federal regulators say was riddled with 'insider dealing, fictitious sales and land flips.'" Yost notes the criminal contempt trial of Susan McDougal: "The indictment against Mrs. McDougal details a series of grand jury questions about Mrs. Clinton and Castle Grande that Mrs. McDougal refused to answer." The Castle Grande project involved a baroque set of deals aimed at least in part in shoring up the McDougal's failing savings and loan.

The future of America is in our hands....l­et's make the right choice
Visit: www.Blacks4Barack.org (A Multi-Racial Grassroots Org.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

Flagged for length and ridiculous content.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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LOL!

I will second that!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 PM on 03/14/2008

Now that is ridiculous. This is a blog? I have a textbook I wrote that is published.­..shall I bring it on?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:15 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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A link would have sufficed..­.........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 03/14/2008

Hey, we do agree on something:)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 03/14/2008

dont ever post something that long. it is discourtious and unecessary.
balck s4barack is just another way to divide america which is exactly the opposite of what obama is trying to do.
stupid fukin idea that will only harm baracks chances.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:20 PM on 03/14/2008

and Obama has a preacher, I will voted for Hillary and am glad I did.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 03/14/2008
- Kalima I'm a Fan of Kalima 74 fans permalink
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Well good for you but since when are we able to control what other people that we know,
say or do?

He has already said that he doesn't agree with everything the Rev. say's,is he supposed
to repeat it every,single day now?

You can't put a muzzle on everyone and of course the Clinton Camp are digging holes
all over like good,little gophers. Her day to explain her own short comings is on the
horizon. Will enjoy watching that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 03/14/2008
- jaglon I'm a Fan of jaglon 4 fans permalink

End this thing now to stop the repubithugs (I think they did this on purpose) making hay out of it ... split the delegates 50-50. I can hear Hillary crying now but tough. No one campaigned down there and while Hillary won, a lot of voters may have stayed home who would have voted for one of the three of them. We will never know, but at least by splitting them it keeps it fair. They are running out of time and I do not understand why no one has seriously said split them. I think the democratic party has a death wish when it comes to this stuff. Buck-up H. Dean and tell the canidates that they will split them and like it, but it is time to get on with it and take it away from the republicans.

Hillary is very competitive and when push comes to shove she will want to prove that she is as tough as a man, which is why I do not want her answering that 3:00 am call. She will not want the republicans saying she is weak (very afraid of that) so she will over-compensate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 03/14/2008

50/50 would be ok by me. More fair imo would be apportioning the count according to the current pledged delegate count ratio. Case closed and removes the notion of unseated and disenfranchized votes/delegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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You already got to vote, didn't you?

Thanks for saying, and deciding it would be okay if I don't get to vote at all.......­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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I find it interesting how quiet the Hillary supporters have become.... once upon a time they were standing on their soapboxes, claiming to the high heavens how Hillary is by far the better candidate, willing to defend her to the very end.... well.... one of two things have happened..­..

1) They have realized what kind of person Hillary really is........­.. or

2) They just don't know how to carry on a debate, since all they can do is vomit up talking points from the Clinton propaganda machine...­. and no one is buying them anymore...­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:59 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

All they have left is the "big states" and MI and FL. They're wrong in both cases.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 03/14/2008

Ah.. sorry but ditto to the remark above your eloquent commentary. I have written too many times (nothing at ALL containing the language that Obama's team writes) to not be posted. Can you say censorship? Since you group every Hillary supporter together, that in itself speaks volumes about you, why do Obama supporters always resort to personal attacks and name calling? Don't get me wrong I can certainly give it back however, I choose to debate the issues as an adult.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:08 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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If you are posting on a moderated thread, then your post may or may not show up.... I have no control over that......­. and the moderation has absolutely nothing to do whether or not someone is pro Clinton, or pro Obama.....­. Moderated threads are pretty new here, which means that so are you.......­......

I am merely calling it like I have seen it.... Hillary supporterss have been some of the most vile, hate filled posters I have come across....­. The majority that have posted here often say they would rather vote for McCain, then stick together with their Democratic brothers and sisters and join together to defeat the Republican come the November election..­..... On the other hand... Obama supporters have pretty much all agreed that we would vote for Hillary if she ends up the nominee...­......

I have yet to come across a Hillary supporter here that has actual facts to prove to me how Hillary is the better candidate.­... If you have some.... bring them forth.....­.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 03/14/2008

Is your job to rebut as many comments as you can? Is there not one argument made by an Obama supporter that you find even plausible? Do you find all the positions against Hillary completely irrational? If so, then there is no reason to even rebut your comments. I can come up with your talking points myself.

As for Obama (and yes I'm an Obama supporter), I think he needed to distance himself from his crazy reverend. I think he was the weaker, although not weak, of the two in at least the first few debates. That's it for now. Any admissions on your side or are you claiming to have the perfect candidate?

As I side note, I find it absolutely hilarious that you and other posters are willing to base your opinions on whether you will support Obama if he is the nominee on people's comments in a blog, or even on a subset of his supporters in general. What do you think they are going to be making the decisions in the White House? There has been a lot of douchery on both sides. If Hillary wins, however, I won't make my decision on whether I support her on a subset of her ridiculous, illogical supporters. I'm going to make my decision based on what she's done and whether I think she's the stronger candidate. Basing your decision on offensive comments made by the other guy's supporters is completely illogical and idiotic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 03/14/2008

it is increasingly difficult for hillary supporters to try and justify a scorched earth campaign.
and it has never been easy to support a serial liar.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Very true S&S.....

Her campaign is everything the American people do not want.... and she can not even see that.... what kind of President would she make.... oh yeah.... a really bad one.......­.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

I, for one, am glad there is no controversy over FL and MI. Just think what would have happened if all the candidates hadn't agreed beforehand that those two states wouldn't count because they both broke the rules. Just think what a mess it would be if there hadn't been complete agreement among all the candidates. Something like that could have ripped the party apart.

Great foresight prevented a huge dispute. Thanks to the DNC for clearing everything up long before any votes were held, and thanks especially to Sens. Clinton and Obama for defusing that issue before it arose and for sticking to their committments. I am so proud of our party. We made sure FL and MI wouldn't be a problem.

Now we can finish out the nominating process, and all states are on notice that they can't just make up their own rules. Good precedent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Heh! Well said Dragon....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 PM on 03/14/2008
- EFC I'm a Fan of EFC permalink

Bob Graham had the intestinal fortitude to defy a then popular President because the facts didn’t jibe with the PR blitz to war. Many other Democrats also knew better but were thinking mainly about their careers and ambitions and didn’t want to go on record opposing Bush’s Grand War. They, along with MSM, became timid enablers and share the blame for the debacle that followed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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You are correct...­.. and I am sick and tired of politicians who care more about getting re-elected, and basing their decisions based on that, instead of making the right choice that would most benefit the people of this country...­.

This needs to change....­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:03 PM on 03/14/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

And Bob Graham is exactly right, Hillary may never face a more important, presidential decision that she did in the Iraq War vote. She failed the test of informed, insightful, value grounded judgment. And Obama passed that test. She is not qualified based on capacity for good judgment to lead the nation and the world. PERIOD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:17 PM on 03/14/2008

Obama was not in the Senate, it is always easier to criticize someone else vote when you do not have a vote. Also, please do not speak about Intestinal fortitude when describing a politician, everything is calculated and do not say Obama is different because he wrote that he has never heard his pastor make comments demeaning America. Come on, this man has been his mentor and pastor for over 20 years. Do you call that intestinal fortitude?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:11 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

It was not just the fact that Obama opposed the war in his speech given publicly just before the senate vote, it was also because of the content of the speech, which accurately predicted exactly what has happened in Iraq. Have you ever actually read the speech?

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

As to the minister, Obama answers this elsewhere on this site. I for one do not plan to vote for Rev. Wright for President. However, I have never heard Obama make comments anything remotely like this. In fact, I ahve heard him make comments to the contrary. I f you would really like to understand Obama's relationship with Rev. Wright and the Trinity United Church of Christ, try this article from the NYT published months ago. Obama's real ties to the church seem to be rooted in his community activism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1&sq=a%20candidate

Surely, candidates are not going to continue to attack one another based on "gotcha" by association. I do not think Ferraro speaks for Clinton and I don't think Hagee speaks for McCain. I certainly don't believe Obama agrees with Wright's remarks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 03/14/2008

He was runninng for senate at the time - I say that took MORE. not less courage, because the wind at the time was blowing for war - and it didn't help his chances of getting elected.

Hilly voted for it because polls showed most people bought the lies Bush dealt out. If sentiment had been against the war, Hilly would've opposed it.

Just like NAFTA - she's on record paraising it (while Perot predicted it would cost jobs) when it got in,. now she's distancing herself from it.

Hillary is the democratic answer to Romney. Say anything you think want people to hear.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 03/14/2008
- jade7243 I'm a Fan of jade7243 112 fans permalink

Divide the Florida delegates -- pledged and super and at large -- equally among all of the candidates who participated in the Iowa caucuses. If necessary increase/decrease delegates make them divisible by (or a multiple of) 8 -- the number of candidates in the race at the time of the caucus. Everybody gets some votes, all the votes get counted. Send the delegates to the convention, with the proviso that they must vote for the candidate to whom they are assigned during the first round of voting, after that, they are free to break for whomever they want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Why do you want to do that... why not just do another vote?

Everyone wants to make it way more complicated than it has to be.... What is so hard about doing another vote, fair and square....­. and from the results, give each candidate their due rewards?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:06 PM on 03/14/2008

The issue is who pays for the vote - the states won't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 03/14/2008
- moda31 I'm a Fan of moda31 10 fans permalink

because if they get a do over after violating rules they knew full well about, how will the DNC ever be able to enforce any other rules they decide upon. if you create rules, but ignore the prescribed punishments because the perpetrators moan about it for long enough, states have no reason to follow party rules and will know they can get away with doing whatever they want to. this isn't just about this primary, it's also about the DNC's future ability to manage the party. split the delegates so they can be represented, and have a say in party platform, but don't reward their disregard for the rules by offering them a decisive role in picking the nominee. it's not fair to they other states that did play by the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 03/14/2008
- partyofone I'm a Fan of partyofone 45 fans permalink

Why not just disenfranchise dysfunctional Florida until its citizens clean up is elections? Florida gave us George Bush, and now many are trying to give us his twin sister Hillary Clinton. Please, how many offesnes to one state get?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 03/14/2008

Clinton voted for the war. There is no getting around that. Those of us who were marching that week knew that we had just been screwed. She was not fooled by George W. Bush. She made a political decision to vote for the war, knowing that she was running for president. She made the decision, because her people told her that it would be the best, having experienced the antiwar McGovern trouncing in '72. This was the political issue of our time and she showed no courage or moral fortitude. She should have resigned after the first 500 U.S. troops were killed (not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens). She has no business running for president. She had no business even being in the senate. I wouldn't hire her in my cafe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:36 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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LOL!!!!!

You are correct...­.. she would make a lousy waitress as well......­......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

She'd only wait on big tables.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 03/14/2008
- ginnypoo I'm a Fan of ginnypoo 7 fans permalink

The only Commander-in-Chief being tested was George Bush and he failed miserably. At the time there was no other Commander-in-Chief. That was not a WAR VOTE or have you forgotten the very reason we call it an illegal war is because He Did Not Have Permission.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

What Hillary voted for:

Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

What she said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLaCb07lAs

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 PM on 03/14/2008

Wouldn't it be fair to listen to the whole speech instead of this modified video. I even have a transcript if you want to follow along to make sure the video wasn't doctored like the previous youtube video was.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wyCBF5CsCA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8fknhbB-Xo

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 PM on 03/14/2008
- EvSmith I'm a Fan of EvSmith 7 fans permalink

For the last time. Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War resolution INTENTIONALLY.

She knew what the Bush admin. and the Pentagon wanted to do in regards to invading Iraq and she agreed to support it.

END OF STORY.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 03/14/2008

And even if she was bamboozled as she claims,she has admitted not reading the NIE which congresspe­ople/senat­ors like Graham used as a basis for his "NO" vote ....as did 25 or so others did as well. Its an outrage that she is ballyhooing her "experience" and c in c qualifications.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:56 PM on 03/14/2008

Some times I have doubts that the Pentagon really supported the decision to go to Iraq. They made an estimate and said that they needed 400,000 or 500,000 to do the job, and Bush told them "forget about it." I don't think any military person with an once of brain wanted Iraq. When Bush told the military "you are going to Iraq" they I imagine that they took one look at the number of troops they were authorized to take and collectively said "oh, sh*t."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

I've finally found the answer to the FL and MI primary problem. Since the Repugs would love to see the fighting among Dems continue, let them pay for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Not a bad idea at all....

Howdy Dragon... ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:22 PM on 03/14/2008
- Dragon5616 I'm a Fan of Dragon5616 16 fans permalink

Hey. Haven't been here much with the post police. Been over at Daily Kos some.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 03/14/2008
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