Bob Graham: Iraq War Vote Was Commander In Chief Test

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First Posted: 03-14-08 10:13 AM   |   Updated: 03-28-08 05:12 AM

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Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound eerily similar to Barack Obama's.

"I don't believe there is a school you can go to, to train to be commander-in-chief," Graham said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "I think the qualities you are looking for would include, judgment, the willingness to surround yourself with strong people, listening to a diversity of ideas and then forming a conclusion. I think curiosity is important.

"If there had been a little more curiosity in the fall 2002 -- if the questions had been asked -- [it] would have raised a lot of suspicions," he said, referencing the Iraq war authorization vote. "I think you have to look to see whether those qualities exist. And if they do, you have reason to believe that the person who has those qualities would become an effective commander-in-chief."

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.

"If you look at recent presidents, certainly George W. Bush didn't have any commander-in-chief experience, neither had Bill Clinton," he said. "George H. W. Bush had served in the military. Reagan didn't serve in the military. Carter was an Annapolis graduate. He was probably as close to what you would consider prepared to be commander-in-chief of the recent presidents."

The Florida Democrat was less hesitant to weigh in on the other major campaign issue of the day -- what to do about Florida's delegates -- in part because he simply didn't have the magic bullet to resolve the crisis. But he did offer some detailed analysis and colorful metaphors.

On Florida's decision to move up its primary and the DNC's retaliation of stripping the state of its delegates:

"This was like a bank robbery. The Republicans [who controlled the legislature and governor's chair and pushed to move up the primary] were in the vault, putting their money in the bags. The Democrats were in the car out on the street, ready to drive the bank robbers away after the heist. The bank robbers in the vault got a light tap on the wrist [from the RNC] and we got a chainsaw that took off our right arm."

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On what to do to get those delegates counted at the convention:

"Our options are not many and none of them are very good. There has been a lot of interest in maybe a mail-in ballot because it is not inexpensive. But apparently there are a lot of legal problems with doing a mail-in ballot [Florida's entire House delegation opposes the idea as well]... The other two options are to try and run a full scale primary, which will be very expensive and difficult because many counties use this period in the spring and summer to switch out machinery and a number of counties say they can't physically put on an election... The third is to have a caucus, but that has never been our tradition, and it doesn't seem to have gotten much lift."

So what should be done?

"We are in a real mess. If Michigan and Florida are sufficiently teed off as a result of it, then it changes enough votes to put them in the Republican column. That represents about 45 or so electoral votes, which would be more than the margin of victory in most recent presidential elections. So it is a very bad place for Democrats. We are waiting for the Huffington Post to give us a creative option."

Um... Don't hold your breath.

Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound...
Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound...
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Here's a solution for the Michigan and Florida delegates. Since no one "technically" campaigned in Florida or Michigen, then the delegates should be evenly split between the two candidates. The respective delegates will be seated at the convention, no one gets an advantage, and the whole thing becomes a non-issue again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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Uh.... no..... I don't think so........­...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 03/14/2008
- escapee I'm a Fan of escapee 3 fans permalink
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FreeThinkn1: that is the most reasonable idea but, unfortunately, I doubt Hillary will agree to it. It's too simple, logical and without conflict..­.. Hillary seems to need the fog/frenzy of conflict and confusion to pull off what she hopes could be a win. What makes her think those primaries were fair? I don't think she's stupid but I wonder if she thinks her supporters are?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:57 PM on 03/14/2008

How about this. The delegates get to vote their conscience, unbeholden to the electorate in Florida since the Floridians put the R's in power who moved the election date outside the Democrat party rules, their votes shouldn't count.

That way, Hillary will get the presumed votes, but the individuals who make up the delegates don't have to follow that presumption as an obligation. Since Neither Hillary nor Obama campaigned in Florida, neither should have a right to hold delegates to an illegal election result. O and HRC can then do their best to convince the small group of delegates, perhaps in a debate moderated by the Florida Democratic Party itself with only the (already selected?) delagates in the room with these two candidates.

Just an idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:59 PM on 03/14/2008
- Grunty1 I'm a Fan of Grunty1 221 fans permalink

The 50/50 idea is being thrown around a lot, but it really doesn't address the problem: it wouldn't change anything, so why bother with it??

The previous votes can obviously not be held to. Revoting is the best alternative, with doing nothing at all the second best.

I find it very ironic that Florida, which would favor Hillary, is probably not going to get a revote, while Obama-favoring Michigan probably WILL. :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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It is not so much that Michigan favors Senator Obama, it is just that we do like doing things fair and square here.... unlike Florida, who wants to do some mail in thing and voting, which.... well, I don't know about you, but Florida does not have the greatest record on carrying out elections.­...

In Michigan, they just want everyone to go and vote again, with BOTH names on the ballot this time.... simple and fair......­....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 PM on 03/14/2008
- LoloZ I'm a Fan of LoloZ 2 fans permalink

Obama's judgement gives him a "pass" on the Commander in Chief test. Almost as important is his cool, even temperament. Throughout this whole campaign he has remained calm and cool, and kept his head. Contrast that with many tirades of Hillary's "...shame on you Barack Obama..." He has not stepped into the gutter with her and he passes my test.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 03/14/2008
- slow2 I'm a Fan of slow2 10 fans permalink

LoloZ,

Many tirades, AND many faces of Hillary. That kind of flexibility and chameleon emotion is not good for a C in C.

She's never who she appears to be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 03/14/2008

She's never who she appears to be.

No, she's EXACTLY who she appears to be. A candidate who has lost all legitimate chance to win the popular vote, the pledged delegates or the majority of states won. Yet, here she is, doing her best to "defeat" our nominee, going so far as to anoint John McCain and giving her blessings to another 4 years of Bush rule before accepting the will of her own party. She is and always has been about her own ambition. We know who she is and what she's about and it isn't about defeating John McCain and restoring a Democrat to the office. Unfortunately, she is determined to take us all down with her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 03/14/2008

Personally, I don't want a president who's schooled in war. I want one who does his best to hold to peace. This is not WWI. This is 2008, and we have the technology to wipe out humanity, and an administration and a politicial party arrogant enough to force the issue. We've seen this with Iraq.

I don't want experience; I want intelligence. I don't want age; I want wisdom. No one in the GOP seems to fit that category these days!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 03/14/2008
- slow2 I'm a Fan of slow2 10 fans permalink

Missing,

Right. And, the kind of stupid experience that is exhibited by Cheney and Rumsfeld et al has all but destroyed our country and has ripped our Constitution.

So your characteristics of intellect, vision and a willingness to work with citizens to change this course we're on is what is needed. And that would be Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 03/14/2008

Well said. I agree completely. I'm just excited to get an intelligent leader back in power.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 03/14/2008
- Nochnoi I'm a Fan of Nochnoi 130 fans permalink
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I know! Someone who actually can speak and understand the English language..­.. just that makes me so happy..... hehe

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 03/14/2008

Cna't comment on FL's primary Cluster f*ck , but here in MI- Thsoe Delegates had not be Seated or counted until we get a new full Primary, at the expense of the Dems who participated in the Changing of it in th efirst place- out of their pockets or their hides (well OK PRISON TIME). this was a Calculated Move to Pocket oUr Delgates for the Clinton campaign should they need to pull an Ace out of their pocket. I hold every elected and appointed Dem "leader' in this State Personally responsible to this MalPractice!
This time I want the Ballots to ALL BE EXACTLY ALIKE- (use barcoding if you need district differeniation- not name scrambles.­..unecessa­ry and more costly, and BS when feed into a Preprogrammed Scam Tron). I want them Hand Counted and Re counted by theLeague of Woamn voters, then by each city council - Recount them until th enumbers match exactly- every vote is counted. Our delegates are given as THEN indicated - Frankly What the Hell do we need with Delgattes anymore- considering Techonogical advances to make it possible EVERY vote counts (small state, small pop, small impact on the rest of US- bigger pop- more influence) and We can Eliminate this Dragged out Primary schedule- There is no need to 'Stump' in this day & age! Everyone around the country votes on the same damn day. winner is determined when all the votes are counted around the Nation! So no state carries any undue influence and All Candidates have an opportunity for All americans to consider their candidacy- the first 1/3 of th ecountry should not dtermine who is left for the other 2/3 to consider. The antiquated shit is to have more opportunities to divert Democracy.
As For the ridiculous back room dealings of 'Super Delegates' - who knows these people, Why shoul dI trust them to decide who will be OUR next Commander in Chief??
KISS- keep it simple stupids. Either Total RE DO's or I would not be entirely opposed to just splitting them in half. Hillary did not 'Take' MI, she was Handed it by the MI Dem Party 'leaders' (criminals in Election Rigging)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:21 PM on 03/14/2008

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 03/14/2008
- mach I'm a Fan of mach 12 fans permalink

Lets see what Bob had to say about Iraq....lo­ng before all those "lies" from the Bush administration occured:

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 03/14/2008

Ahem...if you're going to attempt to cast such aspersions, shouldn't you find a pro-war quote that post dates his objection to going to war?

October 2002:

"From my advantaged position, I had earlier concluded that a war with Iraq would be a distraction from the successful and expeditious completion of our aims in Afghanistan. Now I had come to question whether the White House was telling the truth -- or even had an interest in knowing the truth.

"On Oct. 11, I voted no on the resolution to give the president authority to go to war against Iraq. I was able to apply caveat emptor. Most of my colleagues could not."

--from "What I Knew Before the Invasion," by Bob Graham [Published @ The Washington Post]

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 03/14/2008
- KRANKY I'm a Fan of KRANKY 14 fans permalink

Senator Graham, the answer to the primary question is to hold a mail-in ballot. This would allow for the most participation. However, ALL OF THE CANDIDATES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE PREVIOUS BALLOT MUST BE INCLUDED. Also, the voters, by participating and voting would have to declare that they are now a Democrat, and that they did not vote previously in the primary as a Republican or in any other political party, under penalty of prosecution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 03/14/2008
- RickO I'm a Fan of RickO 56 fans permalink
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Florida law prohibits mail-in ballots for any election were someone is being nominated or elected to something (as opposed to some other kind of ballot measure). The law would need to be changed first to allow that and Republicans control the state government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:58 PM on 03/14/2008
- RevRick I'm a Fan of RevRick 6 fans permalink
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Actually states cannot legally tell the parties how to run their nominations. States just sets the rules for when they will pay, and Florida won’t pay for a mail-in-primary. Just like they refused to pay if the Florida Democrats didn’t hold the primary on the date they set.

This isn’t a new tactic either, it’s the main reason the Democratic parties in a lot of red states do caucuses. Caucuses are cheaper and the State Republicans put up too many barriers to public funds.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 03/14/2008
- Bozwellian I'm a Fan of Bozwellian 30 fans permalink

LOL, and YOUR proposal with all the various stipulations is to be formulated and verifiably carried HOW and BY WHO and who pays ?
Take the Fla and Mi delegates, tally them and then SPLIT the count...EA­SIEST ANSWER TO THE PRESENT DELIMMA...­.or have the delegate count SPLIT, give that halved portion to Clinton as supposed "winner" on the books but NOT allowed to have ALL the delegates !!
(doubt that Clinton would agree for still leaves her short of delegates but she could pretend that she won 2 more states "fairly" and perhaps enough others would be willing to pretend with her as well and go along with that !!!
(can NOT believe the bodaciousnous of Hillary to claim FAIR such as in regard to Michigan and OH, yeah, regrading Obama to signing on to a proposal LAST YEAR regarding endorsing MAIL IN BALLOTS..p­lease remember, that was in an effort to get such accepted and THEN SET UP TO WORK...It took the other state that so allows some TEN YEARS TO GET IT FUNCTIONABLE !!! so to now clamor that Obama is backing out of MAIL IN PRIMARY balloting is FALSE and do bother to note, MAIL IN BALLOTS FOR PRIMARY IN FLORIDA IS CONSIDER ILLEGAL BY FLA LEGISLATION !!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 03/14/2008

When the "Force Authorization" bill came up for a vote in the Senate, one of the foremost proponents of just voting and getting it out of the way, in order to concentrate on upcoming elections, etc., was the Democratic leader of the Senate. That would have been ex-Senator Tom (chickenshit) Daschle. A man who proudly proclaims himself an Obama Superdelegate. Interesting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 03/14/2008
- Superfelo I'm a Fan of Superfelo 6 fans permalink

We are dying to know about this much vaunted "Commander in Chief" test, and what is in it?
The Clinton campaign keeps bruiting about that Hillary has passed the test; and Barack Obama has not. We are dying to know when the test was given. It seems to me that if there is a "Commander in Chief test" Barack Obama aced with flying colors to boot, when as an unknown African-American he took the plunge into the Presidential contest; and then has run a superb campaign for President, with extraordinary discipline and military precision.
He evinces equanimity; tremendous mettle; and a great deal of humor and aplomb. Surely, that is the real test for a "Commander in Chief" how do you handle yourself under pressure? Pressure and grace seem to be Barack Obama's brother and sister. So please, let's stop this non-sense. Some would not admit it; but , many of us know, that , it is true, Barack Obama will make a great president and a great commander in chief. Enough said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 03/14/2008
- RickO I'm a Fan of RickO 56 fans permalink
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Why not just come up with a real test. Ten possible scenarios that would require a commander-­in-chief's decision. Then let the joint chiefs of staff grade the answers (not knowing whose answers they were) and and say which one they thought was better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:02 PM on 03/14/2008
- RevRick I'm a Fan of RevRick 6 fans permalink
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Bad idea. We elect a civilian to be Commander-in-Chief to prevent this country from becoming a military dictatorship. Providing the Joint-Chiefs an automatic veto of Presidential candidates would be a terrible idea even if they weren’t chosen by the previous President.

The Joint-Chiefs should get no more say in the process than any other citizen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 03/14/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

Based on the sermons preached by Lord Obama's "pastor,me­ntor".I would question his reasons for running for president.­Especially since his main platform is "change'.W­e have not heard from him exactly what these changes are.Judgei­ng from the tone and substance of his sermons,it is very disturbing indeed.The hate and venom against our entire country,the white population and Senator Clinton,in particular is disgusting­.The fact that Obama himself has constantly accusing the Clintons of being racist,then to see and hear this exposes him(Obama)as hypocritic in the extreme.To say "G*d damn America",from the pulpit of a church is the most insulting of remarks.Ev­ery American who loves their country should be outraged.O­bama has sat in his church and listened to this racist and hate mongering for the past twenty years,by his own admission.­If he did not share these radical veiws he would have left.Now that it has come to light,he conveniently rejects it.Too bad.No Sale.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:58 PM on 03/14/2008
- thnk4self I'm a Fan of thnk4self 2 fans permalink

Former Senator Graham knows what he is talking about. Judgment and intellectual courage are the requisites for a Comander in Chief. Only one candidate possesses these attributes: Obama.

Sen. Graham as VP?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 03/14/2008
- nazgul I'm a Fan of nazgul 10 fans permalink

Of course the Iraq War Vote was a Commander-In-Chief Test!

Just like the pledge against campaigning and participating in the MI and FL primaries were tests of honesty and lawyering!

She pledged not to participate!

How can she now claim that they "were fair and should be honored"?

She takes the chutzpah vote!

See Olberman/Countdown last night (Thu., 3/13)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/
See: "Clinton strategizing to win"

Video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23620941#23620941

Select: "possible re-do in MI and FL"

HA!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 03/14/2008

Ok here's my idea- Let's have a caucus in MI. and let the vote stand in FL.
here's my logic- letting the vote stand in FL will benefit (apparently) HC.
having a Caucus in MI will benefit (apparently) BO. both camps should be happy.
A Florida revote is almost impossible, and HC would probably win it by a similar margin anyways. and here's the clincher, BO will get 150 extra delegates- may put him over the top!
Both states are happy. Win win :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 03/14/2008

The FL and MI Primaries were not legitimate elections. If you want to debate whether they were fair or not is another matter. The DNC had rules and those rules were violated not by Hillary or Obama, but by the State Party Leaders.

I Understand that the Republicans control the State Houses and the Govenorship, but the Democrat leaders did not have to agree to a primary vote, they could have opted for caucuses and had their delegates selected at a later date similar to what Iowa is doing.

Remember the primaries are about delegates not voters. The general election will be about the voters.

Pinkmamba I like your rationale its very even minded.

Hillary should drop out she is quickly becoming the new Ralph Nader.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:25 PM on 03/14/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

Bob Graham is mistaken.P­resident Reagan was indeed,in the service in the second world war.One would think that a United states senator would know that.As for Obama's wisdom,I have seen no evidence to support any such thing.He was against the war before he was for it,then was against it again when it was convenient for him.This is a sign of great wisdom???I dont think so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:33 PM on 03/14/2008
- cincigal I'm a Fan of cincigal 3 fans permalink

No more caucuses.t­hey are illegal.Ob­ama bused in bus loads of students from other states in the Iowa caucuses,that is why he always wins only in the caucus states.Inv­estigation­s are under way.He probably did so in the other states too.These people cant vote for him in the general election.T­here will be no caucuses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 03/14/2008
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Clinton: 49.7 Obama: 33.0 Edwards: 14.4

EACH CANIDATE WAS ON THE BALOT IN FLORIDA. THOSE WERE THE RESULTS...

How quickly the American mind forgets.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_democratic_primary-261.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 03/14/2008
- Anastasia I'm a Fan of Anastasia 77 fans permalink
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Why didn't Hillary take her name off of the ballot in Michigan, as Edwards, Biden and Obama did?

Was it her plan all along to "win" Michigan by going up against the likes of Dennis Kucinich?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 03/14/2008
- savertime I'm a Fan of savertime 4 fans permalink

The chutzpah vote has a few challengers:

How about comparing her "35 years of life experience with McCain's 25 years as an elected officeholder" Don't we all have life experience?. She has 60 yrs, McCain has 71 and Obama has 47. Did Hillary really think we wouldn't notice that she wasn't comparing "like things?"

How about her experience in the White House as first lady. Presidential experience through osmosis? The presidency is an elected office, non-transferrable to the spouse. I don't care what she did as first lady, she can't claim it as experience for the presidency.

How about "ready on day one?" Even Bill Clinton would have to wade through the mess left by Bush. He would be the only candidate ready on day one. Someone should ask her, in the next debate, "what would be her first act as president on day one?

Traveled to over 80 countries as first lady?? Gawd, I hope it wasn't all on taxpayer dollars.
All first ladies are good will ambassaders for their husbands.

Each of her experience claims or accomplishments have now been challenged; even by the Clinton counselor.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 PM on 03/14/2008
- PhxMike I'm a Fan of PhxMike 3 fans permalink

MEMO FROM: OBAMA LAPDOG MEDIA CENTER

RE: WOW! THANKS FOR TAKING THE FOCUS OFF OF REV WRIGHT.

Phew! I thought we were going to suffer through a whole day of questions about Obama putting Reverend Wright on that important campaign committee.

Oh, by the way, several of the 'independent' media have been asking members of the team lately how we can call Obama's anti-war speech an indicator of his presidential judgment when he didn't actually consider ANY intelligence evidence before he made it. And, those same smart-asses have also been asking if the Rezko deal is an example of Obama's judgment, too.

So, here's what we've been telling all the surrogates to say: "Is Hillary Clinton is a racist? Hmm. You'll have to ask her." That seems to do the trick every time.

Oh, and nice job of not mentioning that Hillary did have the guys who wrote the NIE tell her what was in it, and super-cudos for not mentioning that Hillary was the Senator from New York when she cast that vote, because that might lead people to think she had to think about the hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers whose lives changed on 9/11 and take that into consideration before she cast her vote.

Anyway, we love the job you're doing!

Love and Kisses,

THE OBAMA LAPDOG MEDIA CENTER

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 03/14/2008
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Right on...PhxMi­ke. You have encapsulated it quite nicely. I agree totally.

2008 Free Pass Candidate.­..Obama.

This guy is enjoying an even MORE FREE PASS THAN George Bush got in 2000. And it is becoming very sickening.

Clinton 08...but I will support the democrat nominee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 03/14/2008
- slow2 I'm a Fan of slow2 10 fans permalink

never,

Were you a true Democrat, you would have said "I will support the DEMOCRATIC nominee."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 03/14/2008

What can you remember anything about George's preacher? Did his adulation of the Reverends Falwell and Robertson(the hurricane whisperer) get much scrutiny by the press?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 PM on 03/14/2008
- Bozwellian I'm a Fan of Bozwellian 30 fans permalink

LOL, lets see if can enlighten you just a bit regarding perhaps HOW Obama got to the "judgement" call he made regarding Iraq for you see he was NOT alone in calling it !!! LO and do BEHOLD that there was actually a MAJORITY in the public who DECLARED NO TO IRAQ and felt there was NOT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE as well as had reviewed much that DID provide indication of WHAT WAS THE LIKELY OUTCOME...­just like Obama (and uh, yeah, now same are found in his supporter ranks and uh, come from various backgrounds of races, ehtnicity, religions, political parties even and social/economic status and education ...well, you perhaps get the drift !!!) Many bothered to read from a variety of available sources in the public access areas and many did QUALIFY a bit, that IF THERE WAS TRUE INTELL THAT PROVED ELSE WISE, it could be an option but NOT UNTIL PROVEN LEGIT !!! Remember how France got derided just after Powells unfortunate and bogussed up report to the UN for pronouncing much of that ERRONEOUS.­.Germany and Russia and others protested it as well..but France took the brunt of ridicule. Well, IT WAS CIRCULATED AND KNOWN, that much of what COLIN P. presented as IF FACTUAL there that day, was SIMILAR TO A TERM PAPER PUBLISHED IN THE UK SOME TEN YEARS EARLIER...­.but gee, here in the US, as much as many tried to catch the attention of our ELECTEDS with that info, (who had turned their office fax machines off, put their phones on hold and routinely just trashed their bulk mail ...) AND THE MSM AS WELL, MOST ALL IGNORRED and then we get the likes of Hillary, who did NOT even READ the intel report , got evidently cliff notes from her clerical staff, inferred she had listened up to "OTHERs" who AGREED with the official assessment so that in HER judgement , that vote to allow the authorization to use military force by the Bush helm was "correct/appropos" for the time and even if she stumbled in explanation where she has said she had received personal assurances from the WH (as well as indications that her husbands "people" and due to their previous positions and access to LOTS of info/etc, one assumed some conversations of various sorts to enlightened her further to cast an intelligent vote on this matter for we ALL KNEW the troops and equipment had been getting properly positioned and it was rather obvious what the intent was ....COMES OFF AS HER POLITICAL FINGER IN THE WIND SORT OF DECISION quite frankly and thensome for just about all figured that Bush was intent on this SHOWBOAT foray and most just kinda figured that rather than take a chance and get blowback for NOT BEING STRONG/blah/blah or wanting to or able to defend the homeland and again, most figured it would mirror to extent the first Gulf War and be quite short and would to some extent appease many who were angry of OUR being hit in our homeland and serve as perhaps a showboated deterrent to others to NOT MESS WITH US or get that......­Well, it did NOT turn out the way ANY of the LONG EXPERIENCED ONES IN CHARGE WHO AUTHORIZED THIS QUAGMIRE THOUGHT IT WOULD....s­ome are determine to fully have the US nose ripped off its face and cling to the notion that just to continue the course rather than acknowledge the mistakes and wrongness and costs...we­ll, McCain is willing to go it for some one hundred years, do whatever it takes ...somehow still misguided that it is to be considered the ONLY honorable thing to do !!! Hillary and McCain would make a great team if that is where YOU happen to fall...man­y of the rest of us REALLY WANT A CHANGE IN DIRECTION and for that, yeah, we are willing to roll the dice...sta­ying with the same-O's , well, we've done that , been there, and so over wanting more of 'em !!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 03/14/2008
- Jeff1958 I'm a Fan of Jeff1958 42 fans permalink
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Paragraphs. Embrace them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 03/14/2008
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Actually you are full of crap...the majority of America sided up with bush and the invasion.

I'll site the Gallup poll from 2001:

February 2001
Seven months prior to the September 11 attacks a Gallup poll showed that 52% would favor an invasion of Iraq while 42% would oppose it.

(you can find the poll that shows the majority was in favor months after the initial invasion)

AND;

A USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of Americans felt the U.S. did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003.

Unfortunately, this country was lied to...not untill AFTER the envasion..­.and the "press" finally waking up from the big boner they had...watc­hing the US rush across the desert in tanks...di­d they actually start questioning the idea of going into war.

Your argument is bullshit..­.unfortuna­tely...bec­ause TOO MANYY DID SUPPORT THIS WAR...and that was America at it's lowest point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_popular_opinion_on_invasion_of_Iraq

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 03/14/2008
- Metacortex I'm a Fan of Metacortex 3 fans permalink

It seems to me that the republican party won't be happy until they have destroyed any vestiges of faith that the People have in the United States. It is all about winning, even if that means pressing the Supreme court or cutting out key states from the process. They are more concerned about a technical knockout than a genuine mandate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 03/14/2008
- chronic I'm a Fan of chronic 71 fans permalink
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Graham said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "I think the qualities you are looking for would include, judgment, the willingness to surround yourself with strong people, listening to a diversity of ideas and then forming a conclusion. I think curiosity is important.



I guess the current idiot squatting in the White House fails!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 03/14/2008
- stringer I'm a Fan of stringer 8 fans permalink

I'm for just splitting the delegates 50-50 at this point think it would be the best option.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 03/14/2008
- Superbus I'm a Fan of Superbus 27 fans permalink
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OK, then what?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 03/14/2008

Then what? Then you quit whining and we move on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 03/14/2008
- Gabrielle I'm a Fan of Gabrielle 17 fans permalink
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Yes I agree, it would help the worthy one get closer to the goal of 2025(?) delegates needed...i­n this case OBAMA.....­.

THE ONLY WAY TO CUT THE CAKE, OR NOTHING!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 03/14/2008
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