Bob Graham: Iraq War Vote Was Commander In Chief Test

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First Posted: 03-14-08 10:13 AM   |   Updated: 03-28-08 05:12 AM

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Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound eerily similar to Barack Obama's.

"I don't believe there is a school you can go to, to train to be commander-in-chief," Graham said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "I think the qualities you are looking for would include, judgment, the willingness to surround yourself with strong people, listening to a diversity of ideas and then forming a conclusion. I think curiosity is important.

"If there had been a little more curiosity in the fall 2002 -- if the questions had been asked -- [it] would have raised a lot of suspicions," he said, referencing the Iraq war authorization vote. "I think you have to look to see whether those qualities exist. And if they do, you have reason to believe that the person who has those qualities would become an effective commander-in-chief."

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.

"If you look at recent presidents, certainly George W. Bush didn't have any commander-in-chief experience, neither had Bill Clinton," he said. "George H. W. Bush had served in the military. Reagan didn't serve in the military. Carter was an Annapolis graduate. He was probably as close to what you would consider prepared to be commander-in-chief of the recent presidents."

The Florida Democrat was less hesitant to weigh in on the other major campaign issue of the day -- what to do about Florida's delegates -- in part because he simply didn't have the magic bullet to resolve the crisis. But he did offer some detailed analysis and colorful metaphors.

On Florida's decision to move up its primary and the DNC's retaliation of stripping the state of its delegates:

"This was like a bank robbery. The Republicans [who controlled the legislature and governor's chair and pushed to move up the primary] were in the vault, putting their money in the bags. The Democrats were in the car out on the street, ready to drive the bank robbers away after the heist. The bank robbers in the vault got a light tap on the wrist [from the RNC] and we got a chainsaw that took off our right arm."

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On what to do to get those delegates counted at the convention:

"Our options are not many and none of them are very good. There has been a lot of interest in maybe a mail-in ballot because it is not inexpensive. But apparently there are a lot of legal problems with doing a mail-in ballot [Florida's entire House delegation opposes the idea as well]... The other two options are to try and run a full scale primary, which will be very expensive and difficult because many counties use this period in the spring and summer to switch out machinery and a number of counties say they can't physically put on an election... The third is to have a caucus, but that has never been our tradition, and it doesn't seem to have gotten much lift."

So what should be done?

"We are in a real mess. If Michigan and Florida are sufficiently teed off as a result of it, then it changes enough votes to put them in the Republican column. That represents about 45 or so electoral votes, which would be more than the margin of victory in most recent presidential elections. So it is a very bad place for Democrats. We are waiting for the Huffington Post to give us a creative option."

Um... Don't hold your breath.

Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound...
Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound...
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Nobody ever mentions the other way to get out of this mess and that is for Hillary Clinton who mathematically cannot win the nomination fairly should withdraw from the race and then the FL and MI delegations could be seated without controversy or harm to the GE. The problem of course is that Hillary does not have an honorable bone in her body to do the honorable thing but rather hangs on looking for a way to steal the nomination or hope Senator Obama self-destructs without regard to the harm she is doing to the party whose banner she purports to carry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 03/14/2008
- Colonial82 I'm a Fan of Colonial82 2 fans permalink

This is to women Clinton Supporters that want a woman to be president:

I know she is a Republican, but Elizabeth Dole is more qualified than Hillary Clinton. I have asked Clinton supporters that want a woman if they supposed her in 2000 and they give me "no way she is a Republican". Dole was more than qualified and a good candidate, but no one flocked to her.


Elizabeth Dole Career:

- 1969-1973 Deputy Assistant to Nixon for Consumer Affairs

- 1973, appointed on the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for 7 years

- 1st woman Secretary of Transportantion from 1983-1987 where she passed "3rd brake light on cars and worked with MADD"

- 1st woman to serve in 2 Cabinet positions when appointed Secretary of Labor from 1989-1990

- 1991-1999 served as President of American Red Cross

- Ran for president in 2000 and a top choice for VP, but got passed over (luckily for her)

-Won NC Senate seat in 2003


I ask the question, if many women supporting Hilary Clinton wanted a woman president (at least some part of the factor), why didn't she get more support? Please avoid the "because she is a Republican" answer, there are good Republicans (and many bad ones).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Dole

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 03/14/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 325 fans permalink
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Sadly, I too have seen many posts on these threads from women that back Hillary solely based on her gender. Something they would be up-in-arms about were there posts advocating support for a male candidate based solely on the fact that he was a man.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 03/14/2008
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Not because she is a Republican - but because she is an extension of Bob Dole. I don't need to elaborate, for this forum, why that is a bad thing, except to say that Bob Dole represents everything that is non-progressive about Republican governance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 PM on 03/14/2008

There will be a day soon coming when a female will become President of the United States and that day is not long hence. Hillary is right about that much! It is long overdue. No wonder she wants to take advantage of an obvious political truth. When she arrives however, it will be her political persona and judgement which carries her like an unstoppable train to the nomination and none will effectively stand in her way. She will have earned that position, not wait for it like royalty. Her husband will likely not even be a political personage! She will not try to ride on his dirty coattails; she will not be responsible for his foibles! She will have great charisma and we will gladly salute her for her acceptance of the responsibility of the nation's trial's and tribulations. When she leaves the service of our nation, we will congratulate ourselves for our good judgement!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 03/14/2008
- wm1066 I'm a Fan of wm1066 33 fans permalink
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That bank robber analogy was perfect
Thank you Senator Graham for speaking up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 03/14/2008
- sugarmoes I'm a Fan of sugarmoes 16 fans permalink
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cheney, rove, bush et al were curious in 2002... curious to see if they could get away with it.

mission accomplished.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 03/14/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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I don't see any response from Graham in this piece to indicate that the

War Resolution of Oct 2002 was a 'test'. Even if that's Graham's view,

it borders on nonsense. You shouldn't ever 'test' a President by giving

him the authority to go to war TO FIND OUT IF HE ACTUALLY WILL. Not

with the lives of THOUSANDS of US military at stake, to say the very least.

At this point, way after the deed was done, it (arguably) doesn't matter

so much. But it is very disturbing that any Senator would have such a

RIDICULOUS view of how it went down. Astonishing, really. Even worse

if true, I'm afraid.

Now, several thousand US/UK lives later, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives later,

many hundreds of billions of $$$ later, can you say, 'I guess Bush failed our little test.'?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 03/14/2008
- sugarmoes I'm a Fan of sugarmoes 16 fans permalink
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i think you missed the point. bush wasn't part of the test. bush was GIVING the test... some students gave him the answer he wanted so, even though they were bad students, they would be given passing grades for that year from bush their master.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 03/14/2008

what exactly are you trying to say?
graham was against giving bush authority to invade iraq.

are you saying we should have gone into iraq?

graham said no because he took the time to read the NIE. hillary did not.
she stuck her finger in the air, felt the political winds blowing in the direction of bush.
thats how she voted.
what graham said was spot on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 03/14/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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It is contingent on leaders to persuade others. It's good that Graham voted

against, it's good that Kennedy voted against, etc. It's NOT GOOD that they

were unable to persuade the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY in the Senate that

the War Authorization was wrong. Ultimately, the failure is theirs.

If the Senate was testing Bush, if Bush was testing the Senate, their little

test failed. WE ARE PAYING THE CONSEQUENCES for their failure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 03/14/2008

bob grasham made an impassioned pseach urging all to read the NIE before they voted.
what else could he do?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 03/14/2008
- angelbravo I'm a Fan of angelbravo 3 fans permalink

In 2002 there was no Democrat Majority. Doofus you the right name for you MY Friend.
Failure to the Republican Majority, Ultimately, the failure is theirs. YEAs ---77 , 28 D’s 49 R’s; NAYs ---23 , 21 D’s 1 R 1 Indepenent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 03/14/2008
- RevRick I'm a Fan of RevRick 6 fans permalink
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You have completely misread the article. He isn’t saying that he voted for the resolution because he wanted to test Bush. In fact he voted against the resolution.

He is saying that how Senators voted could be considered a judgment test for a future candidate for commander-in-chief, Senator Clinton. He is also implying that Clinton failed that test when she voted for the resolution.

He is also saying that a good commander-in-chief should be very curious about important decisions. He didn’t point it out however the author of the piece did that Senator Clinton has admitted to a frankly curious lack of curiosity about this important decision, since she didn’t bother to read the National Inelegance Estimate on Iraq. The very document that persuaded Senator Ghram to vote against the resolution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 03/14/2008
- rbe1 I'm a Fan of rbe1 permalink

Are you saying that Clinton failed the test because she failed to predict the future ? Or are you saying that you are so brilliant or perceptive that you were able to see the future when she and others could not ? Or are you saying that you possess this insight because of your ability to predict the past ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:44 PM on 03/14/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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I see your point, but I'll hold to my opinion that it's nonsense to frame this as a 'test', when so many lives have been lost & resources wasted. I certainly do agree that it indicates lousy judgment for a would-be Commander-in-chief. There are various explanations for why the vote went down as it did in Oct 2002, but whatever else, it demonstrates poor judgment on the part of a whole lot of Senators & Congressmen, of both parties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 03/14/2008

At least the name is accurate.

What is being said is that Hillary clinton has already failed the "Commander in Chief Test". She voted to give GWB the authority to wage a war that back then Bob Graham said was not supported by FACTS. He voted against it and history have proven him to be right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 03/14/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 47 fans permalink

Notice how many truly experienced and long serving members of Congress have come out for Obama instead of Hillary. That should tell us something.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 03/14/2008
- PingMama I'm a Fan of PingMama 4 fans permalink

50/50 is the only way. 50% to Obama and 50% to Hillary. But of course, Hillary would not accept that.

The more interesting thing to note here, is that by June, even if a new election were held in both states, it would still not be enough for Hillary to overcome his huge delegate lead.

So, the DNC, possibly the taxpayers of those states, would pay for an election for nothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 03/14/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 325 fans permalink
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For 2 weeks I have been asking this question of Hillary supporters, and have yet to get any reply, so, I'll try one more time:

Will a Hillary supporter that has done their research, and I'm sure there are some out there, PLEASE detail what events in her life aided her in crossing the "commander-in-chief threshold"?

What exactly is it that makes her supposedly more qualified than Obama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 03/14/2008

she's married to Bill Clinton, who can tell her what to do, that's the bottom line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 PM on 03/14/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 325 fans permalink
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Based on some of the posts by Hillary supporters here, it is because he was an effective POTUS that she should be elected.

That's some of the silliest stuff I've seen on the political blogs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 03/14/2008

i can answer that.
hillary had two c-in-c moments.
1. monica lewinsky, hillary herself wrote in her book it was the biggest crisis she ever faced.
2. where to eat whe she went on that oh so risky diplomatic trip with sinbad & sheryl crow.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 03/14/2008

she had a close witness to power as close as anyone can get without having it. she has seen the problems arise and what it takes to deal with them in a timely mannor. nobody has actual experience being commander n chief till they actually become president. obama has no idea what it would be like to be president. clinton at least has a good idea what to expect

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 03/14/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 325 fans permalink
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Nonsense.

Using that logic, Pat Nixon, Betty Ford, Roselyn Carter, Nancy Reagan, Barbara Bush,and Laura Bush would be qualified to run the country.

It would seem that Obama is every bit as qualified to run the country as Hillary. More so, if you factor-in the lies and smears she's willing to float out there to steal the nomination.

America is sick and tired of filth in politics, and while Obama maintains his dignity throughout, she's not above that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 03/14/2008

ok, then what you are arguing is laura bush is ready to be president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 03/14/2008
- slow2 I'm a Fan of slow2 10 fans permalink

Preferred quals for CinC do not resemble preferred quals for First Lady, regardless of wishing and hoping; unless you specify that the candidate must be vertical and have blood pressure.

Oh, and would you say she is also qualified to be a marriage counselor as well as CinC? The corridors of power were kind of crowded during her tenure, as we recall...a­nd that seems to be a big part of this "experience" resume.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 03/14/2008
- Doofus I'm a Fan of Doofus 25 fans permalink
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Obviously, she's known John McCain for years. Obama has not.

She *says* she's qualified. She *says* Obama's not. End of story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 03/14/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 325 fans permalink
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Oh!! O.K., you've convinced me!!!! :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 03/14/2008
- zendem1 I'm a Fan of zendem1 109 fans permalink

Ahh Senator Graham. A good running mate for Obama. Graham believed the Saudis were behind 9/11 and the Bushes covered it up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 03/14/2008

Are you saying the Saudi's were not behind 9/11? Who funds Al Qaeda?? Saudis! Not to mention that 15 out of 19 hijackers were.....S­AUDI!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 03/14/2008

mainmonkey, not sure but i think that was zendemi1's point.
graham was ahead of the curve because he bothered to read the NIE

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 03/14/2008
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 67 fans permalink

This is what I came up with. Atta worked for the CIA. The CIA always disclaims their
employees. It was a good plot. Those people did not know their mission and the outcome. This plot was done by the government (a few people) because they needed
to get the support for this war and they sure did. That the FAA , etc. are hiding their
tapes does not matter. Had it been a real event, they would have investigated every shred to it not tried to block it like they did with 9/11.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 03/14/2008

I am so very proud that I can say Bob Graham was my Governor for 8 years and my Senator for 18 years. He took one day out of every week and went out and worked a common man's job. Everything from Garbage Collector to Crab Fisherman just so he could stay in touch with what Floridians were having to deal with.

While an Obama/Graham ticket would be a "MONSTER" I do not think Bob would do it - not because of Barack but because of his other endeavors he is now involved with. However, when Barack Obama is elected I would hope he would strongly consider Bob as Secretary of State. I believe he would "come out of retirement" for that one!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 03/14/2008

After his long and laudable service, we can only congratulate him and hope that he still owes us somthing. Whatever he chooses!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 PM on 03/14/2008
- slow2 I'm a Fan of slow2 10 fans permalink

zendem1,

Re: September 11 and its possible cover-up.

Perhaps it was because the terrorists were largely Saudis on 9/11. Perhaps W's common interest with the Saudi princes which included personal/private Bush family business. Perhaps other people as well as Senator Graham thought that allowing the bin Ladens to fly out of the US when no other planes were allowed to fly might have been suspect; these are some very curious components. And, Senator Graham was a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. And, he of course read the memo...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 03/14/2008
- nazgul I'm a Fan of nazgul 10 fans permalink

Contact Hillary Clinton at www.hillaryclinton.com and the DNC at www.democrats.org and remind them that:

- Hillary agreed not to "campaign or participate" in MI and FL
- Hillary did not object to the rules up front
- Hillary admitted that the votes would not count on Super Tuesday
- Hillary's current claim that the votes in MI and FL were fair, legal and should be counted is outrageous, because they weren't and her shallow motive is clear based on her previous actions and remarks.
- re-votes would drain precious contribution dollars from the general election, (much like her destrucitve, futile) campaign.
- in order to uphold the rules, the MI and FL primaries cannot count.
- as a compromise, in order to seat delegates, they should be split 50-50
- revotes would drain precious contributions needed for the general election
- revotes would be incredibly expensive relative the number of delegages that might go to one candidate or the other (if OH and TX are any indication, $2-$3 million dollars each)
- Hillary, the state representatives who ignored the rules and the voters should be happy to have their delegates seated at all, based on the fact that the rules were well known.
- Hillary should be thankful she isn't fined for campaigning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 03/14/2008
- slow2 I'm a Fan of slow2 10 fans permalink

nazgul,

Thank you for the comments and we will contact -- AGAIN!

Good reminder!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 03/14/2008
- FullChat I'm a Fan of FullChat 6 fans permalink

Hillary voted for the war with Iraq.
(Obama spoke strongly - and wisely - against it while in the IL senate.

Hillary voted for Kyl-Libermann, declaring the Quds Force to be a terrorist group and therefore legalizing war with Iran.
Obama spoke against, was out of town when the voted was rushed by Reid.

Hillary didn't vote on telecom immunity, although she was in town.
Obama voted against.

Hil;lary voted against the cluster bomb ban.
Obama voted for.

Both have since voted to fund the war - and support the troops.

Who do you want for CinC? The experienced warmonger, or the logical thinker?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 03/14/2008
- Ramirez I'm a Fan of Ramirez 267 fans permalink
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We need a CinC who will continue to fund the war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:39 PM on 03/14/2008
- PTTY I'm a Fan of PTTY 7 fans permalink

Clinton VOTED to RUN THE BUS INTO THE DITCH

OBAMA had to VOTE TO GET THE BUS OUT OF THE DITCH

If not our poor Soldiers would be left unfunded

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 03/14/2008
- Edmonsky I'm a Fan of Edmonsky 7 fans permalink

It is an old adage that those who live in the glass house should not be throwing stones. Hilary has crossed the line and many Democrats who were staying neutral are coming out in full swing to prevent Hilary from destroying their Party. When Hilary says that only her and John McCain are qualified to take the red phone at 3:00 am, she has crossed the line. The statement by Peolosi that the idea of dream ticket is a wash, is loaded and predictive of the fate that awaits Hilary Clinton if she does not read inbetween the lines. Hilary has eliminated herself from the contest by the suggestion that John McCain is qualified to be the commander in chief. Time will tell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 03/14/2008

show one sign that obama is picking up steam. he is not and your comment is stupid

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 03/14/2008
- LCA I'm a Fan of LCA permalink

I pressed all the wrong buttons. nevermind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 03/14/2008
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

Well, winning by 24% in Mississippi when even the most optimistic polls only had him up by 14 points.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 03/14/2008
- nazgul I'm a Fan of nazgul 10 fans permalink

Every Obama supporter who can should make a trip to PA. There are people who can find frequent flier miles if you don't have them. Some housing is available if you can't get it.

Go to www.barackobama.com and volunteer. Let them know what you can/cannot do and see if there's a match!.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 03/14/2008
- olderdem I'm a Fan of olderdem 13 fans permalink

Thank you Senator Graham.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 03/14/2008
- Countess I'm a Fan of Countess 33 fans permalink

Senator Graham knows what he is talking about and it is very important to note that Hillary Clinton has flunked her test as possible commander in chief. She has also not passed the honesty test over and over again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 03/14/2008

But there is a way to stay fair under the rules and yet still have their delegates really count. Their delegate numbers are, in fact, needed to help someone get over the top. So, a fair thing -- since they were NEVER supposed to be counted if they held their primaries too early -- and those WERE/ARE the rules people signed on for -- then their votes should be split 50-50. They would become important because they are needed but there would be absolutely no favoritism involved and therefore fair under the rules that were set out. Americans in the end are fair. We may have agendas but we love sports and fair play. We know the rules have to be followed or refs call fouls. Both candidates had an obligation to set up a campaign strategy for the most number of delegates under the rules of the game. If they are winning or losing it's their strategy that's wrong...no­t the rules. In sports AND in elections there really are no do-overs. How many times has your favorite team lost because of some rule.

Let's face it, if one football team decided that with seconds to go, a receiver would use the out of bounds path to score a touchdown and then scream...h­ey because of the snow I couldn't see the line...you have to count it...well we'd all laugh.And I bet you there'd be plenty of that team's fans who would agree and want a do-over. But that's the game. Hard feelings aside.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 AM on 03/14/2008
- nazgul I'm a Fan of nazgul 10 fans permalink

EXACTLY.

It should be made clear that the candidates agreed not to campaign OR participate in the elections. And Clinton should be told by the DNC that she should be grateful she isn't being fined.

Save the money on do-overs for the general election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 03/14/2008
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Michigan and Florida were punished for not following the rules and now they want to change the rules -- which will essentially mean that these two rogue states will DETERMINE the outcome of the election. Oh yeah. That seems fair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 03/14/2008
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