4000 US Soldiers Killed In Iraq

The death toll for U.S. solders in Iraq has reached 4000:

The overall U.S. death toll in Iraq rose to 4,000 after four soldiers were killed in a roadside bombing in Baghdad, a grim milestone that is likely to fuel calls for the withdrawal of American forces as the war enters its sixth year.

The American deaths occurred Sunday, the same day rockets and mortars pounded the U.S.-protected Green Zone in Baghdad and a wave of attacks left at least 61 Iraqis dead nationwide.

Watch CNN's veteran Iraq correspondent Michael Ware discuss the grim milestone, moments after the news crossed the wires:

Comments

[CuriousPerson]

To echo an earlier sentiment, it's good to see the regulars here both the pros and the cons... having everyone here makes for a nice lively discussion and back and forth remarks...­complete with sarcastic comments, veiled insults and general put downs.

It is good to be back.

[OneVoiceInACrowd]

yeah but long gone are the smack downs!

[CarlsV]

"Noting the burden placed on military families, the Vice President said the biggest burden is carried by President Bush"

LOFL

Yeah!

All those family's who have needlessly lost sons and daughters have misplaced grieving!

[CarlsV]

I didn't think so!

Not one loud mouth war supporting keyboard warrior troll has the guts to answer the big question!

Anyone surprised?

[HumeSkeptic]

There is a lot of anger expressed against Pelosi and Reid for not stopping war funding. It is justified. I also was angry. The time to do it was right after the 2006 elections. But, accompanying that cutting of funding had to be an initiative to replace our military action with a coordinated international diplomatic initiative. Without it, Iraq situation could potentially become worse, at least for Iraqis. It was possible that, using momentum of public support at that time, they could have forced Bush to start a sensible diplomatic effort.

That opprtunity, if there was one, was lost.

The expectation that either Obama or Hillary can pull out of Iraq immediately after taking office is unrealistic for the same reasons. First, they would have to have a major diplomatic initiative started. And that would talk some time.

What, then, is the difference between Obama and Hillary, if both would pull out of Iraq?

The difference is not so much what each would do in Iraq. The difference is how each would handle potential future situations, such as that in Iran.

On the one hand, we have Hillary, who has consistently sided with the NeoCons on foreign policy and war. And we know her approach going forward. Hillary supports the classic NeoCon approach of dividing the world up into good and evil, and refusing to negotiate with the evil without pre-conditions. In other words, she is telling us that she would continue that policy.

On the other hand, Obama's approach of talking to world leaders without pre-conditions is an approach that has always served us well. We did that throughout the cold war. Even Reagan followed that sensible approach, at least in dealings with the Soviets. That is how you avoid major conflicts and war.

There is no crystal ball. No one can say how a future President would act in a crisis. All one can go by is how each views the world and how each would approach international relations so as to minimize the very likelihood of a crisis.


PS: Was that much OK to say CarlV and femi? Or did I again say too much?

[CarlsV]

"The difference is how each would handle potential future situations, such as that in Iran."

Although I also support Obama Hume I do it realizing his inexperience is the unknown factor in your question!

[Superbus]

Well, he does want to bomb our ally Pakistan and negotiate with our enemies, N. Korea and Iran.

[HumeSkeptic]

What was the foreign policy experience of Carter, Reagan and Bill Clinton before they became President? What you have to look at is their circle of advisors and their overall approach and thinking. If you do some Googling, you can find quite a bit on that.

Furthermore, what is the foreign policy experience of Hillary? And because you get upset, I won't bring up her whoppers about that trip to Bosnia and the trip to Africa with Joe Wilson.

And all McBomb knows about foreign policy is how to bomb countries.

[CarlsV]

Okay!

One last chance for the war supporting trolls to answer the BIG question!

What's the big plan?

Are you going to kill them all?

The children too?

Because if you dont all you have done is pass to our grandchildren the next even more revengeful batch of jihadist's on to them!

Of course seeing how you dont mind passing on the insurmountable debt to the chinese (thereby mortgaging their futures) that bushco has rung up them ... I doubt if this will matter!

[CarlsV]

Not one troll with any guts huh?

[speakingtruth2power]

The only successful occupations in history have been accomplished

by killing off the natives and bringing in your own ethnic peoples, like

China is attempting in Tibet and Europeans did in North America.

[Ammobob]

Does Everyone Hate President Bush?

Some certainly do. And one could easily get the impression that the Bush-haters have become a majority. To be sure, President Bush's approval ratings continue to languish in the 30s. But Presidential approval ratings are a very blunt instrument, and these data from the Tarrance Group suggest that the full story is more balanced.

http://www.tarrance.com/Nat'l-poll-overview-Mar-08.pdf

[Superbus]

Hillary and Obama have stopped running against Dubya and are ruining the democratic party for the next 20 years.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=44aed783-8357-4491-8589-ee15290e6e96

I post this because by destroying the party, each will be responsible for allowing this war that liberals hate so much to go on.

[Ammobob]

Yes, unless an accomodation is reached prior to Denver, it'll be 1980 all over again. It took 12 years for them to field a viable candidate.

[Roafer]

Yeah, balanced!!lol

Dumbya is the biggest moron to ever be selected by the SCOTUS to be President. History will not be kind to this war criminal, you can count on that Boob!

[Ammobob]

WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

[BWonka]

"Does Everyone Hate President Bush?"

Damn near. Especially people outside the USA. Inside, there is still a small .minority who like him.

[Ammobob]

Obviously, you're in the first grouping and based on your answer, didn't read the survey results, either.

[Ammobob]

Another GRIM milestone:

For 10,000th Time, MSM Claims Bush Administration Claimed Hussein Behind 9/11 (While Failing to Provide a Quote or Citation for This Claim, Naturally)

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccainiraq23mar23,0,7280469.story

[LaFeminazi]

2002

"The regime has longstanding and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are Al Qaida terrorists inside Iraq." - George W. Bush Delivers Weekly Radio Address, White House (9/28/2002) - BushOnIraq.com

"We know that Iraq and al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. These include one very senior al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks. We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases." - President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002) - Whitehouse.gov

"I think they're both equally important, and they're both dangerous. And as I said in my speech in Cincinnati, we will fight if need be the war on terror on two fronts. We've got plenty of capacity to do so. And I also mentioned the fact that there is a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. The war on terror, Iraq is a part on the war on terror. And he must disarm." - President Condems Attack in Bali, White House (10/14/2002) - Whitehouse.gov

"This is a man who has got connections with Al Qaida. Imagine a terrorist network with Iraq as an arsenal and as a training ground, so that a Saddam Hussein could use this shadowy group of people to attack his enemy and leave no fingerprint behind. He's a threat." - Remarks by the President in Texas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002) - Whitehouse.gov

"He's a threat because he is dealing with Al Qaida. In my Cincinnati speech I reminded the American people, a true threat facing our country is that an Al Qaida-type network trained and armed by Saddam could attack America and leave not one fingerprin­t." - President Outlines Priorities, White House (11/7/2002) - BushOnIraq.gov

"He's had contacts with Al Qaida. Imagine the scenario where an Al Qaida-type organization uses Iraq as an arsenal, a place to get weapons, a place to be trained to use the weapons. Saddam Hussein could use surrogates to come and attack people he hates." - Remarks by the President at Arkansas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002) - BushOnIraq.com

[LaFeminazi]

2003

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help develop their own." - President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003) - Whitehouse.gov

"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses, and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other planes -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known." - President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003) - Whitehouse.gov

"Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network, headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner." - President Bush: "World Can Rise to This Moment", White House (2/6/2003) - Whitehouse.gov

Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraq intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. And an al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in aquiring poisons and gases. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner." - President's Radio Address, White House (2/8/2003) - BushOnIraq.com

"He has trained and financed al Qaeda-type organizations before, al Qaeda and other terrorist organizati­ons." - President George Bush Discusses Iraq in National Press Conference, White House (3/6/2003) - BushOnIraq.com

"The regime . . . has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda. The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons, obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other." President Says Saddam Hussein Must Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours, White House (3/17/2003) BushOnIraq.comm

"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more." - President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003) - BushOnIraq.com

"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the 'beginning of the end of America.' By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed." - President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003) - BushOnIraq.com

[speakingtruth2power]

and some of us can offer proof in an instant.

[Ammobob]

And no where is there a quote about 9/11 and IRAQ. You prove the point of the post and the lies propogated by LAT.

[speakingtruth2power]

Revisionism don't cut it here boob. We know the history of this treasonous cabal.

[Ammobob]

Can you cite a quote from Pres Bush and friends to support the story line?

[hydenorhare]

BWonka said ...

Did you like it when the FAILED VP ... the coward with five deferrment­s... just said "So?" when told 4000 heroic Americans had died because of his FAILED policies?
Posted 02:04 PM on 03/24/2008

Ewww, that's not right.

Did you know that's not right?

Was that a mistake on your part?

Was that an intentional lie on your part?

Here's what IS right...

"... two-thirds of Americans say it's not worth fighting." Cheney said "So?"

Which brings up a question for you. When 2/3 of Americans were in favor of the war, were you?

[k6007]

I was against this fiasco from the beginning, I remember waiting for saner reason to step forward and STOP THIS MADNESS...­.......no one came.

[hydenorhare]

You mean you don't base your decisions on polls?

But Cheney is supposed to?

[lornejl]

It was good to see the regs posting here again without a huge time delay. Hopefully this wasn't a fluke. later gators.

[CarlsV]

I'm out too Lorne ... have a good one!

[Knowledgeseeker]

let stay focus on what we are going to do to end this war...
This is not the kind of news we want to hear after sending more troops to Iraq

[HopeandChange]

Mike Ware is a lush who just makes up stories.

[CarlsV]

He works for the bush admin?

[Roafer]

If you say so!!

Have you booked a flight to Iraq yet?? Things are just peachy there and I heard the locals love Americans, dead ones!. So are you going, the surge has worked so get on over there!

[HopeandChange]

You're right, those people are worthless. We should only give help to Americans who don't want to work.

[BWonka]

"... is a lush who just makes up stories."

Uh, don't you mean George Bu$h?

[k6007]

Yeah, I'm sure he's just languishing by the banks of the Tigris, sipping gin and juice, dreaming up insurgent sci-fi stories.

[HumeSkeptic]

Hey! Hillary supporters:

How come you are so upset at these 4000 dead, you are upset at the war, and yet, you support a pro-war candidate?

Isn't that hypocritical?

Ask yourselves:

Why did Hillary side with the NeoCons on Iraq war authorization?

Why did Hillary oppose Levin Amendment?

Why did Hillary support Kyl/Lieberman Amendment?

That is as consistent a pro-war candidate as any. And she continues to propose the classic NeoCon position of not talking to world leaders without pre-conditions.

Hillary has supported this war from Day 1.

[CarlsV]

C'mon Hume!

[HumeSkeptic]

OK. If the truth bothers you that much, I'll stop. Just for you.

[speakingtruth2power]

Hillary's first choice for a Senate Committee was

Armed Forces which she's been on since Day 1.

[shedances]

I, for one, like Hillary Clinton. But she made a big mistake in her Iraq war vote. Our country has lost so much credibility ... and perhaps, Barack Obama is the only one who can set things right. I don't know. He certainly has the principles, but not the experience. Hillary has a strong understanding of past & present foreign policies ... but she doesn't always give careful enough consideration to matters before taking action. This concerns me. But the two phrases that made both her & many Americans gullible were: Sadam Hussein & Weapons of Mass Destruction. Bush knew how to pull the fear-strings. Let's see if it's not too late to cut the strings of our puppet master.

K

[HumeSkeptic]

Hillary has a strong understanding of past & present foreign policies
---------

Can you give me something concrete to back that up? Personally, I have nothing more than her claims to go by.

It seems that she lacked a high enough security clearance at the White House to have known, let alone attended any meetings, about anything really important. So, where did that "strong understanding of past & present foreign policies" come from? By reading open literature? But anyone can do that.

Furthermore, I am particularly bothered by her approach of not negotiating with adversaries without pre-conditions. That is the classic NeoCon approach and it has had disastrous consequences. This might not seem like a big deal, but it is. It affects our foreign policy in a fundamental way.

[Roafer]

Dumbya probably thinks this number is a sign of how romantic it is to be fighting the War based on lies.

[HopeandChange]

Yea, we should have just left all those worthless people in the Middle East to rot. Obama will make sure no one in the world will ever have access to the things we have.

[Roafer]

Yeah. we should've left those people in the Middler East to determine their own fate!

Now explain how Obama will prevent the people of the world from enjoying the wasteful ways of America? Maybe some facts or links!? Oh yeah, all you've got going here is hot air, sorry for asking.

[hydenorhare]

Uh Oh. I've just been moderated.

[CuriousPerson]

Did it hurt? You're acting as if it's your first time.

[hydenorhare]

First time on this thread. I think it was the "dammit".

[hydenorhare]

Maybe not. that one got through.

[LaFeminazi]

McCain is on Fox.

"We have just secured Omaha beach, the war is nearly won!"

;)

[CuriousPerson]

You sure he didn't say Obama beach?

[LaFeminazi]

McCain "Our allies the Greeks should retake Carthage."

[LaFeminazi]

McCain "The Buddhist militia's in Basra need to be subjected to a surge."

Just another one of those 'senior' moments.

[CarlsV]

LOL

He's so old his zip code is 0.