Dean Says Attacks Getting Too Personal

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NEDRA PICKLER | March 28, 2008 11:56 AM EST | AP

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Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean gestures during an interview with The Associated press, Thursday, March 27, 2008, at DNC Headquarters in Washington. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite)

WASHINGTON — Democratic Party chief Howard Dean says Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and their supporters should beware of tearing each other down, demoralizing the base and damaging the party's chances of winning the White House in November.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Dean also said he hopes the Democratic nominee will be determined shortly after the voting ends in early June and that he will encourage the superdelegates who will play a role to make up their minds before the August convention in Denver.

Dean said the charges and countercharges between Clinton and Obama have gotten too personal at times. He declined to say how they have crossed the line, but he said he's made it clear privately when it has happened.

"You do not want to demoralize the base of the Democratic Party by having the Democrats attack each other," he said Thursday during the interview in his office at Democratic National Committee headquarters. "Let the media and the Republicans and the talking heads on cable television attack and carry on, fulminate at the mouth. The supporters should keep their mouths shut about this stuff on both sides because that is harmful to the potential victory of a Democrat."

Superdelegates _ the nearly 800 party and elected officials who can support whomever they choose at the convention, regardless of what happens in the primaries _ should make up their minds before August to avoid a fight at the convention, Dean said.

"There is no point in waiting," he said. The Democratic political organization "is as good or better as the Republicans,' and we haven't been able to say that for about 30 years. But that all doesn't make any difference if people are really disenchanted or demoralized by a convention that's really ugly and nasty."

Dean commented during a wide-ranging, 40-minute interview about his leadership during a nominating season that has lasted longer than most expected and that has left the party with some tough issues to resolve. Among them:

_ Florida and Michigan Democrats brazenly violated party rules by holding primaries ahead of schedule and lost their delegates to the convention as punishment. Both states are now demanding that they not be shut out of the decision-making process because of it.

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_ Since neither Clinton nor Obama are likely to secure the nomination with just the delegates won in the primaries and caucuses, the nominee will probably be determined by the superdelegates. That has some activists objecting that insiders could overturn the will of the voters.

_ Dean has raised record amounts of money _ the $51.5 million the DNC brought in in 2007 was a record for a non-election year. And he's spent it, too, on trying to build organizations in the 50 states. Campaign finance reports this month show the party with $4.5 million after accounting for debt, compared with $25 million for the Republican National Committee _ and the Democrats have no nominee to help replenish the coffers.

_ Not to mention that Clinton's and Obama's campaigns spend every day trying to tear each other down _ and are unlikely to stop anytime soon _ while Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the certain Republican nominee, is busy preparing for the general election. Even Dean said he doesn't expect the campaign to end until the last nominating contest is held in June.

Dean, the former governor of Vermont and 2004 presidential candidate, said he knows his critics say he should take a bigger leadership role in resolving some of these disputes. But he said that's not his role. Rather, he thinks of himself as a referee who enforces the rules in a close basketball game.

"Somebody is going to lose," Dean said. "My job is to make sure the person who loses feels like they have been treated fairly so that their supporters will support the winner."

But former Michigan Gov. James Blanchard said the DNC has handled the situation badly.

"They have put their rules ahead of common sense, of electing a Democratic president, of the voters in two major states," Blanchard, a Clinton supporter, said during the taping of Michigan public television's "Off the Record" program. "They're treating the rules like they're the U.S. Constitution or the Ten Commandments. They've lost their way."

Dean said the massive numbers of people showing up to participate in Democratic nominating contests across the country gives him encouragement that the eventual nominee will be well-positioned to win the White House.

He said it is good for the candidates to debate controversies like the incendiary sermons by Obama's pastor and Clinton's different accounts of danger on a trip to Bosnia as first lady. If Democrats didn't deal with them now, he said Republicans will surely make use of them in the fall.

Dean also reflected the concerns of many Democrats who worry about Obama and Clinton tearing each other down.

"What I don't want to do is have the Democrats make a stupid mistake in April and then be sorry they said that in October and end up with some more right-wing extremists on the Supreme Court," he said.

Dean's supporters say he's working behind the scenes to resolve some of the issues. He's been consulting with party stalwarts about how to wrap up the nomination quickly after the voting ends in June, including former Vice President Al Gore, former presidential candidate John Edwards, former Sen. George Mitchell, former President Carter, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, civil rights activist Jesse Jackson and former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo.

"There'll be some nasty fights if it goes to convention, and people will walk out," Dean said. "But I've also been talking to a fairly significant number of, by and large, nonaligned people about how we might resolve this."

Dean wouldn't talk in detail about what the plan is, but it likely involves encouraging superdelegates to pick a candidate shortly after the voting ends. He said he will not encourage any delegate to vote one way or another.

"I am going to stand up for the rules, and I know I'm doing the right thing most of the time because I've got both Clinton people and Obama people mad at me," he said.

For instance, while Obama's campaign has been encouraging superdelegates to support the candidate with the most pledged delegates _ which almost certainly will be Obama _ Dean says the rules don't require that and superdelegates are free to chose who they want.

On the other side, Clinton has been arguing lately that even pledged delegates _ awarded to a candidate based on the outcome of state contests _ aren't bound to vote for that candidate at the convention. Dean called that "a very technical argument."

"You aren't going to get pledged delegates to move unless something really shocking happens," he said. And he thinks it unlikely the superdelegates would support a candidate who did not have the most pledged delegates.

Dean also said the Michigan and Florida delegates will be seated at the convention. But he won't force a resolution because he said there's nothing the Obama and Clinton campaigns can support at this point.

"You bring both sides together and say, `Don't you think it's time that the two campaigns made a deal on how we're going to do this?'" Dean said. "Let me just say that the campaigns believe that kind of a deal is premature right now."

___

Associated Press Writer Kathy Barks Hoffman in Lansing, Mich., contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — Democratic Party chief Howard Dean says Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and their supporters should beware of tearing each other down, demoralizing the base and damaging the pa...
WASHINGTON — Democratic Party chief Howard Dean says Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and their supporters should beware of tearing each other down, demoralizing the base and damaging the pa...
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- garnetwood I'm a Fan of garnetwood 2 fans permalink

I think Dean should worry about getting a revote in Michigan and Florida first. Disenfranchising these people will do more harm to the Dems than all the personal attacks done by both candidates combined. I can see GOP ads now. Why would you vote democrat now, they didn't want to count your votes in the primaries. After that the Dems can kiss these states goodbye not for this year but for years to come.That is what you are facing Mr. Dean. The loss of Michigan and Florida for years to come. Years and years of GOP presidents. You also lose the legitimancy of your candidate if these two most populists states don't count with the disenfranching of these people. After that it won't matter if Obama or Clinton is your nominee, John McCain will win the Presidency. The major problem is you didn't think about this when you made your decision to take away their delegates in the first place. All you thought about was punishing the state parties. Your decision like so many in politics didn't take into account the real people you are supposed to work for, the people who cast their ballots. They are the people you have hurt and if you don't solve this problem, they will hurt your party back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 03/28/2008
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NEWS FLASH TO DEAN: We are already demoralized.

Where were you a month ago when something firm had to be said about MI and FL--its the organization you lead that made the rule, instead you let the media moderate this dispute. It was YOUR JOB to provide guidance and moderate. I only hope the Democrats will thrive under better leadership when you are no longer in office.

Clinton's new doormat in Chappaqua has the name DEAN written on it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 03/28/2008

WOW! This should be a wake-up call to each and every one of us (INCLUDING myself)!

This should apply to ALL OF US as well. We (with a capital WE) are doing as much harm as the candidates. We should stop the negative commenting. WE need to stop attacking one another. WE need to bring our support for our candidates here without backbiting and accusing.

As a matter of fact, I truly believe Huffington Post and all other blog sites should top NOW allowing comments for the remainder of the primary and possibly into the GE. This truly has gotten way out of hand.

At this point, stand by your candidate. Make no threats to leave the party. Do you believe it is possible that we can have a civil discussion here on HuffPO?

I think HuffPo moderators needs to start blocking all negative posting, period. WE ARE NOT HELPING OUR PARTY AT ALL!!!!!

Come on, folks, can we just try really hard? I mean really, really hard. And if you see any negative, snarky, sarcastic posts, just flag and flag and flag. Can you?

Or do you want to continue to wallow in the mud?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 03/28/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

Is he referring to Obama's latest campagin about Hillary's ethics?

I so agree.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 03/28/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 149 fans permalink
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Using "Hillary" and "ethics" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 03/28/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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No the Bosnian General's "ethics" (*cough*) is beyond question.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 03/28/2008
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What ethics? She's been a liar and unethical since she was 27:
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/print/hillarys-crocodile-tears-in-connecticut

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 03/28/2008
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And a Goldwater Girl before that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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Hillary's ethics?????

LOL!!! That's a good one!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 03/28/2008
- GarsLuber I'm a Fan of GarsLuber 12 fans permalink

examples?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 03/28/2008

Boo hoo hoo.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 03/28/2008
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Correction: McClinton versus McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/28/2008
- Benmyoho I'm a Fan of Benmyoho 2 fans permalink

Thanks, Chairman Howard Dean, for reiterating the Democratic Party Rule: that Superdelegates are free to choose whomever they want, irrespective of the pledged delegate count. At the end of the day, it's the good of the country that's at stake, not the fortunes of the Obama backers/radicals.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 03/28/2008
- JimArcata I'm a Fan of JimArcata 4 fans permalink

Do you actually think that the SD's will vote for Hillary if she is behind in the pledged delegates? And if was to happen (which I doubt) do you think the democratic party will have a chance in November?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 03/28/2008

Then what is the point of the super delegates in the first place? Did Hillary somehow go back in time to make that rule, or is it in place for something like this when the people are so evenly matched that they need the big boys to decide.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 03/28/2008
- presto I'm a Fan of presto 18 fans permalink

I would think it would depend on which states she wound up winning and what the popular vote total was. If conditions were such that the superdelegates did go for Clinton, it would imply that she broke away significantly - in which case the party would have a great chance in November.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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"...it's the good of the country that's at stake, not the fortunes of the Obama backers/radicals."
*********************************************************************

One and the same.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 03/28/2008

The good of the party dictates a speedy decision in favor of Obama and a unified campaign against the Republicans at every level.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 03/28/2008
- DavidK08 I'm a Fan of DavidK08 8 fans permalink

Nice try. Your optimism isn't shared by many. Reality is the flow of SDs is not to HRC. It is OK for HRC supporters to think this...it is the ONLY way the desperate HRC can win.

What do you think about the ultra rich comming out with such a threat to Pelosi? You think that is a freebe? Or, do you think, something will be done in return. Bush has Halliburton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 03/28/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 29 fans permalink
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Clinton vs. McCain:

The Clash of the Crazies!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 03/28/2008

I'm ready

Clinton will swiftboat that ol man river

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 03/28/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 29 fans permalink
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She's crazy too. I can't get behind an insane candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 03/28/2008
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Clinton couldn't fight her way out of a paper bag. She's incompetent. Only a born loser could start with all the advantages she did, and run such an abysmal campaign, fiscally, tonally. She's an abject failure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 03/28/2008
- ruscle I'm a Fan of ruscle 2 fans permalink

Yeah. Like with Obama. She'll go after his claims of being a college professor and claim they are bogus. Ohhh. Owch. Oops. Then get proved wrong... that Obama really was a college professor.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 03/28/2008
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Correction: McClinton versus McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/28/2008

Perhaps "too early" is slightly relevant, i.e., UK campaigning for MP's by law can start only 6 weeks ahead of the election, with a required "platform" of policy promises being stated/given to the people [which are continually measured by the UK Press/Media for delivery on those promises after candidates are elected, and if the elected one "fails" to deliver on campaign promises, he/she is hounded into compliance or out of office, whichever the candidate/party comits to...].

Perhaps, Mr Dean, "it is what it is", i.e., neither candidate is the best possible candidate with the best possible policies platform promises relative to the actual very grave crises the country is imminently experiencing, certain to experience within the next 1-15 years. Interesting news interview yesterday noted that money poured into Iraq war would have bailed out social security, medicare, medicaid for every person in the USA for the next 50? years. Perhaps the shortcomings of both these candidates suggests a need for new candidates; someone yesterday mentioned Al Gore [ to address overwhelming climate-change weather crises, natural disasters, food and water shortages. I believe John Edwards would be excellent VP running mate, understanding the essence of the US Constitution and the need to protect US agriculture/food in a 21st century world of food and water shortages !! [need we be reminded that US food and energy independence/abundance was a major cause of winning WWII !]

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 AM on 03/28/2008
- redisright I'm a Fan of redisright 4 fans permalink

Iraq and afgan war----500 billion over 5 years.

medicare and medicaid-----500 billion every year, every budget. Where do you get your TOTALLY WRONG numbers from. We spend 250 billion dollars a year on welfare alone. These social programs (that only pay the beaurocrats and their friends with contracts for all that money) are what is bankrupting this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 03/28/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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Interesting that we managed to get into the severest depression of our history before these programs were ever created.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/28/2008
- pinkyboo I'm a Fan of pinkyboo 22 fans permalink

Hmm spend our money to help people in this country who need it or spend it killing men, women,children?? I would rather my taxes go to the former.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/28/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 149 fans permalink
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"These social programs ... are what is bankrupting this country."

You forgot to add "They're probably not Christians anyway!" to your "Let 'em starve in the streets!" inference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 03/28/2008

Here's a politely-worded petition asking Senator Clinton to withdraw from the race -- if you agree, SIGN IT today.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/clintonwithdrawnow/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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Can someone please give me FACT supported examples of Obama fighting dirty?

I am not trying to be snarky. I really want to know.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 03/28/2008
- CarlsV I'm a Fan of CarlsV 12 fans permalink

Nah! He's been a complete angel ... halo and all!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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Thanks for making my point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 03/28/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 29 fans permalink
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He's beating Clinton in the primaries? He wasn't supposed to do that to her. No one was. Very unfair and dirty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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That bastard!

That's it! I'm switching to Nader!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 03/28/2008
- PennP I'm a Fan of PennP 26 fans permalink
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I agree, but he's not fooling us. Anyone can see it's not really winning, it's just an attack by proxy using ballots as bullets. He's turning voters into snipers. Obviously, those votes are prejudicial to her candidacy, and her husband says they should be invalidated. He thinks the high-quality voting machines that worked so well in New York City should be used in all future elections to prevent those sniper votes from counting. James Carville has also said that a vote for Obama is a de facto voting irregularity because the voter wasn't sane when the vote was placed, and Carville is a known authority on mixing lunacy with politics. But the real problem is Barack Obama. He's trying to deceive people into thinking they have a choice, that they can make a difference, and even worse--that they can change the system. That is the very definition of dirty politics. Ask any Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 PM on 03/28/2008

Asking Chelsea about Monica was an Obama operation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 03/28/2008
- pinkyboo I'm a Fan of pinkyboo 22 fans permalink

I think it was a kid wanting to get his 15 minutes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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People interviewed after the incident, including the questioner himself and people that know him, have said that he was a Hillary supporter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 03/28/2008
- PennP I'm a Fan of PennP 26 fans permalink
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godlessclif, the young man who asked the question has been extensively interviewed and has stated that he is a Clinton supporter. It's hard to believe him on anything, to be fair, because his reason for asking it is as ridiculous as the question itself, but it is what he said. Remember, it's the silly season.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 03/28/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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That was a Clinton job, just as they did in New Hampshire. Try to get sympathy votes. Some of us see through the Clinton ploys, we understand just how phony and bankrupt they are.

Bosnia anyone?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 03/28/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 110 fans permalink
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The Clinton's like to plant questions at their events, staged like Bush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 PM on 03/28/2008
- McSurgent I'm a Fan of McSurgent 2 fans permalink

You could start at the beginning. Alice Palmer. I would use the term hardball Chicago politics. I don't like the angel aura that Obama takes on. Some people actually like a politican that is tough and will do whatever it takes to win.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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I was referring to the current battle.

He beat Palmer playing hardball politics well within the rules and laws governing the elections. He never smeared her in any way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 03/28/2008

"some people actually like a politician that is tough and will do whatever it takes to win."

They are called Republicans, and they are divisive, and they have put our country through hell. I am not sure where this "angel" and "halo" bit comes from towards Obama but mabye just mabye real Democrats dont like the Republican campaigning style of Hillary.

Do Democrats forget that the Clintons were are all about the Clintons when in power? They were solely responsible for handing the Republicans power for 12 years. Why do you think Rush is urging his listeners to vote for Clinton? Because he cant think of a better rallying call for Repubs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 03/28/2008
- nellie I'm a Fan of nellie 502 fans permalink
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I think you can look at the "monster" remark and comparing Bill Clinton to McCarthy as personal attacks. And some would see the legal actions against Michigan and Florida re-votes as a nasty tactic. But that's all within the law and by the rules.

I'm an Obama supporter, so I would hardly call any of this fighting dirty. No lies involved.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 03/28/2008
- redisright I'm a Fan of redisright 4 fans permalink

good point, he has his lacky's do it for him. What an "old school" politician he is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/28/2008

You think calling Clinton a McCarthyist [Joe not Eugene] is not a lie?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 03/28/2008
- redisright I'm a Fan of redisright 4 fans permalink

He has his lacky's do it for him like an "old school politician" from washington.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 03/28/2008
- ChiGuy I'm a Fan of ChiGuy 341 fans permalink
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I'll concede that both name calling incidents were personal in nature. But HE didn't say them. I accept that some campaign associates on both sides will shoot their mouths off from time to time.

On the other hand, Hillary and Bill both have gone on stage and told outright lies about Obama.

I'm still waiting for someone to post one thing Obama himself has said or done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 03/28/2008
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But changing the rules when a black man is winning is just good ol' business as usual???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 03/28/2008
- prscnt1 I'm a Fan of prscnt1 8 fans permalink

Hillary unwound herself by her lies, actually her need to lie. Why would one create a fiction out of a trip as military event?

What people worry about is how many other lies she has told. And, how easy it is for her to lie... Yes, bill's monica does play and chelsea better wake up, her father was fulking around with a girl of her age, in the Whitehouse, not a whorehouse get it?

I really do not believe she will be senator from NY for long.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 03/28/2008
- nazgul I'm a Fan of nazgul 10 fans permalink

"Dean Says Attacks Getting Too Personal"

Ya think? What brilliant cerebral prestidigitation revealed this deep mystery?

I like Dean's progressive stance on the issues and his 50 state strategy for the Dem Party as much as I dislike his leadership during this campaign cycle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 03/28/2008

Howard Dean was always correct on the issues and weak on campaigning

and clueless about dirty tricks. So in their infinite wisdom the Democrats put him in charge

of the circular firing squad that is the DNC instead of having him write the

platform.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/28/2008
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 662 fans permalink
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Why the charade ? CEO Exxon/ CEO Haliburton 08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 03/28/2008
- pithymaxim I'm a Fan of pithymaxim 9 fans permalink

Excellent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 03/28/2008
- redisright I'm a Fan of redisright 4 fans permalink

indeed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 03/28/2008
- argent1 I'm a Fan of argent1 24 fans permalink

Dean is a referee in a basketball game? I would think it more appropriate he were the coach for the Democrats team, with two good centers he can't seem to play correctly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 03/28/2008
- naturesway I'm a Fan of naturesway 12 fans permalink

What a bunch on namby pambys.... This politics, folks. It's not supposed to be pretty. We are fighting about the most important job in the world. If O can't take the heat...get the H*** out of the kitchen.
The party is splitting and I happen to believe a good raucous fight at the convention will be the best thing for the party. Have a good old convention fight and get all side to weigh in. I believe that will be the best way to unite us.
Put everything on the table and make members vote once and for all. Then put the differences aside and get behind our nominee united.
That's how politics are supposed to work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 03/28/2008
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