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Parents Indicted In Faith-Healing Death

March 31, 2008 12:09 PM EST | AP

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OREGON CITY, Ore. — A couple whose church preaches against medical care are facing criminal charges after their young daughter died of an infection that authorities said went untreated.

Carl and Raylene Worthington were indicted Friday on charges of manslaughter and criminal mistreatment in the death of their 15-month-old daughter Ava. They belong to the Followers of Christ Church, whose members have a history of treating gravely ill children only with prayer.

Ava died March 2 of bronchial pneumonia and a blood infection. The state medical examiner's office has said she could have been treated with antibiotics.

Dr. Christopher Young, a deputy state medical examiner, said the child's breathing was further hampered by a benign cyst on her neck that had never been medically addressed, The Oregonian reported.

Laws passed in the 1990s struck down legal shields for faith-healing parents after the deaths of several children whose parents were members of the fundamentalist church.

Since those laws took effect in 1999, "We haven't seen any cases of significant medical neglect ... until now," said child abuse Detective Jeff Green of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office.

The Worthingtons could face more than six years if convicted on the manslaughter charges and up to a year on the mistreatment charges, said Greg Horner, chief deputy district attorney. They were released on $250,000 bail, he said.

Horner said he didn't know whether the couple had lawyers to speak for them. A number listed for the couple was disconnected. A man who answered the phone at the church Monday would not identify himself and said: "We've been told 'No comment.'"

The Worthingtons also lost a baby boy in 2001, but an investigation was closed after family members told police the child was stillborn. Several other Followers of Christ children have also been stillborn or died during home births in recent years, and none of the deaths resulted in criminal charges, authorities have said.


 

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collapse mydogshakespeare See Profile I'm a Fan of mydogshakespeare

Obviously, these parents "faith" exceeds their knowledge of reality. "God" is imaginary, and not actually capable of curing disease. "Manslaughter" or some form of "negligence resulting in death" sounds like the appropriate crime. Merely "being stupid" or "willfully ignorant" isn't a crime.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse aceholiday See Profile I'm a Fan of aceholiday

it seems ignorant to imply that these parents didn't care for their child. highly unlikely. what this appears to be is a case of stupidity and fundie-ism, not child abuse. These parents needed a brain, not a bible.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Stupidity and Fundie-ism lead to the willful neglect of their child's health in the name of Jesus. That's abuse, just as much as beating a child 'to get the Devil' out is.

They caused their child's death just the same as that crazy mother who drowned her children because 'Satan was in them!' did. They were just more passive about it. They LET her die because they were deluded into thinking that chanting would heal their sick child. Their other children are thus now at risk and need to be removed from their care, lest they too be subjected to prayer as a cure-all over proven science.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse desthmoneses See Profile I'm a Fan of desthmoneses

Religion is no excuse for murder negligible or otherwise. I submit that if people feel that these parents were in their rights to let their child die in pain, that muslim extremist who die as a suicide bomber in accordance with their belief in martyrdom are also within their legal rights here in the U.S. and the 9/11 attack must be legally declared within the rights of the hijackers.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

I just hope the parents get a jury of actual peers, people who understand their faith.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

I hope they get a jury of fellow parents of a broad variety of faiths. That's the most fair way to deal with it. Not by stocking the jury with fellow sycophants.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

Well, whatever. They belong to some sort of Christian sect, whereas I worship God by chanting Hare Krishna, but I'm sure I would find them not guilty. Anyone who understands the absolute reality of the Personality of Godhead and the evil of material existence would sympathize with these people.

A similar mob crucified Jesus.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

No. This shows your ignorance of Jewish and Christian teachings. Jesus - if he existed at all - was killed because he challenged the corrupt Jewish leadership that had sold out it's people to the Romans. The likely historical figure who the biblical Jesus was based on was a Rabbi urging a return to a more traditional Judaism, which the priesthood didn't like. So they sold him out to the Romans and thus he was killed. 100 years later, a cult rose up around him that became a major religion.

Jesus never willfully neglected his children and caused their death, then blamed it on God.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

I attended Mass several hundred times but never heard that in Church. Maybe those are Jewish teachings, I don't know. I don' t present myself as an expert on Christian and Jewish teachings, but I hardly think "A similar mob crucified Jesus" warrants such a nit-picking esoteric (and quite likely wrong) historical interpretation.

"Jesus never willfully neglected his children and caused their death, then blamed it on God."
Maybe not, but I wouldn't characterize these parents actions like that either.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Those are history, not filtered through the lens of "Jesus is God and to question anything is heresy". Historically, that's the closest to a person resembling "Jesus Christ" that exists.

As to your claim that your comment didn't warrant nit picking, yeah, it really did. You were comparing people critical of these parents utter neglect for their child's wellbeing with the people who crucified Jesus. So yeah, it deserved a little perspective.

And finally, yes, they blame their faith in god for their child's death by saying that their daughter died because "We didn't have enough faith."

No, your faith had nothing to do with it. Praying won't make a person grow gills and stop drowning, no matter how strong your faith is. Nor will it make the dead rise up again, nor will it cure or treat diabetes.

To believe otherwise is indicative of severe mental and spiritual issues, and as such, requires that the remaining children be removed, if not permanently, then at least long enough for the parents to be fully investigated.

Bottom line, Pandu? No matter why they did it, these people killed their daughter. They are just as guilty of her death as if they had locked her in a closet and starved her, or drowned her in holy water.

They.
Killed.
Their.
Daughter.

And to use their 'faith' as an excuse to somehow say they shouldn't be punished for it is ludicrous.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:20 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

The comments here reveal such a depth of ignorance of spiritual knowledge that it's pointless to attempt a discussion.

It's basically a mob scene.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse FrictionSoul See Profile I'm a Fan of FrictionSoul

Separating the body from the mind leads to death - regardless of beliefs. Duh!

Did Peter pray over whether to flee when he was released from prison? Did God have to tell him "Run for your life!" ? It was pretty clear what had to be done. It always is and has been.

Just believing it doesn't make it true. Praying deeply doesn't change physical conditions, nor the future. If her parents really walked the talk, they would have walked her to a doctor to make her well. Granted, there are many other factors involved in any infection, but if her parents didn't seek medical advice, then why didn't they just have her eat nothing but garlic? That would have stopped her infection cold.

Oh wait. Nutrition is science so it must be evil, never mind that God made all the animals and plants for us humans.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse mamacat See Profile I'm a Fan of mamacat

If one thinks that it is spiritual to let your children die, or to die the death of a martyr, then yes, maybe there is a depth of ignorance of that kind of spiritual knowledge here. However, one should realise that not all forms of spiritual knowledge require the premature death of innocents.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Spirituality should not preclude the needs of the body which HOUSES said spirit. One has to balance body and soul to be happy in this world, and these people aren't either. Their spirits clearly cry out for something and they neglect their body in pursuit of God. This causes their children to suffer, and for that, they deserve the same punishment as someone who, through inaction, causes their child to starve to death. When a child dies, because the parents didn't do everything to save them, they MUST be held responsible for the death. It may not be murder, but it certainly is death by neglect.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

It is the body that needs the soul, not the other way around. People often say of the deceased that they have "gone to a better place." That depends on how the person lived, but it's a valid sentiment. If the soul needs the body, then how can the separation of body and soul allow the soul to go to a better place, unless one gets a new, better body? Your theory makes no sense and also contradicts scriptural authority.

"Their spirits clearly cry out for something and they neglect their body in pursuit of God. This causes their children to suffer, and for that, they deserve the same punishment as someone who, through inaction, causes their child to starve to death."

HOW DARE YOU pose as someone who knows something about religion and yet say a person should be punished for neglecting other duties in favor of serving God?!!!

"Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service, he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated." - God. Http://vedabase.net/bg/9/30

It looks like the state is going to make martyrs of these people.





"It may not be murder, but it certainly is death by neglect."

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

That should be "god" above, not "gos". Apologies.

Also, Pandu, since I don't let the words of men act as my authority in any way, shape or form when it comes to my connection to god, I could give two tugs of a dead dog's pecker if what I say contradicts 'scriptural authority'. No book, written by men, can ever tell me how to worship god, or connect to god. If you need that, that's fine for you. But understand and accept that some people connect to god without needing to be told how.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

So you think God is incapable of authoring a book?

Interesting, but you're not just doing your own thing. You are judging others based on your subjective personal beliefs. How do you know you are not arguing based on your own imagination?

On the contrary, there is a humungous body of scriptural writings, the Veda, authored by the Personality of Godhead. This is objective knowledge, itself claiming to be spoken by God and demonstrating many qualities of perfection. You may think you know what God wants, your claim that there are no scriptures authored by God is without basis, and is an offense against God.

Specifically, it's the fourth offense against the Holy Name of the Lord: sriti-sastra-nindanam, "To blaspheme the Vedic literatures or literatures in pursuance of the Vedic version."

You are concocting your own religion while accusing others of that exact crime.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Prove it. Prove that god him/her/itself reached down and wrote a book.

Otherwise, all you have is men writing a book and claiming that god wrote it through them.

And saying that the writings themselves prove they are holy by claiming that they are holy is ridiculous. It's circular reasoning and absurd.

And see, there's the difference between us, Pandu. I'm not concocting a religion. I'm practicing spirituality. The two, while not mutually exclusive, are not mutually reliant, either. I would never take part in a religion because they're things men (and women) created to control other men with 'the word of god".

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Yeah....I dare pretty well, thanks. God commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves in every major religion across the board. Not once does gos say, in ANY religious text, "Hey guys, Screw your kids, all that matters is that you spend all your time fluffing my ego"

God, whatever god may be, is not some egomaniac in need of constant reassurance. He/she/it is so above us that our worship of him/her/it is as meaningless as if an ant were to worship us. We show our love for our creator by taking care of his/her/it's creations. Not by singing crappy songs in a church and not by sitting and contemplating our neighbor.

These people aren't martyrs, they're willfully neglectful parents using religion as a panacea for their shame. And they shouldn't get away with it.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

Worship of God is not for His sake; He is self-satisfied. It is for our benefit.

What you call major religions, I call popular religions. It is bargain-basement religion. In other words, bogus. Speaking about the religions of the meat-eaters, the LORD said, ""There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument." They know God is great, which is something, but not much.

Sure it's nice to take care of God's creation, but it's not a big deal, and it's desctuction is guaranteed. He made this place, essentially a prison, for our reform, not for His enjoyment. His abode is nothing like this place.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Yet again, something that separates us. You seem to think that, and forgive me if this assumption is wrong, mankind is a failure, and that we are worthless.

I think we're a work in progress. God doesn't make 'mistakes' as we recognize them, any more than an artist who goes through several sketches until achieving the final work is making mistakes.

What I call 'major religions', I mean as major religions. It doesn't mean they are more right. It means they are more accepted. So major/popular is simply a semantic difference that's not worth arguing except to argue.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse 20rothmans See Profile I'm a Fan of 20rothmans

Can't speak for the previous commenter, but I can speak for myself and I dare quite happily. I state quite categorically that any faith that places service to God prior to service to their fellow human being is on very shaky moral ground.

And your quote, amusingly attributed to God, would seem to justify the actions of the terrorists who levelled the World Trade Centre. I find that a little hard to swallow. Don't you?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

"...any faith that places service to God prior to service to their fellow human being is on very shaky moral ground. "

Actually, service to God is the only true service to human beings. The spirit soul is an eternally separated part and parcel of God, inconceivably one and different. It is in one category of God's energies, and the material nature is in another category. The soul and the body are distinct from each other. So your notion of serving humanity translates to seving the body, which actually harms the spiritual progress of the person by promoting the illusory identification of the self with the body.

"And your quote, amusingly attributed to God..."

To whom would you attribute it, and why?
"Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be." - Krishna, B.g. 9.11

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse 20rothmans See Profile I'm a Fan of 20rothmans

Was going to write something else, but decided against it. Scrub that last line from the first paragraph.

And I notice that you did not answer the question at the end of my previous post. The 9/11 attacks: were they saints?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse 20rothmans See Profile I'm a Fan of 20rothmans

In reverse order. I would attribute it to the writers of the Vedas because I believe that God is not in the habit of writing to us directly. Further details will be evident from the next bit.

I cannot subscribe to your dualist view of reality - especially one that derides the actual stuff of life to the exhaltation of the spiritual. Such metaphysics is, I think, groundless and struggles to tell us anything terribly meaningful about the world. It might well tell us a great deal about believers, but not about God itself.

You argue that service to God is the only true service to human beings. In this you do two disservices. You abandon any efforts to change the world that you live in, since the physical world is inhibiting the soul's path to Brahma. Secondly, you seem to justify death and suffering as means of eliminating Samsara. From my point of view, there are two sins of omission. If you can make a difference, then you should make a difference. You seem to be saying that the difference itself is sinful. I cannot agree.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

*Applauds* Very good points, and well articulated, 20rothmans.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:15 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

All you do by quoting this guy claiming to be god is prove that you allow other people to think for you. No man claiming to be god can or should be believed without proof. See, god gave man minds. Minds that think. Minds that analyze. You can shut off your brain and follow the Great Spaghetti Monster or the Flying Purple People Eater if you want, but that doesn't make it any more true.

Let me ask you one very simple question, Pandu. God is all and created all, yes?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse FrictionSoul See Profile I'm a Fan of FrictionSoul

Willful neglect is more like it.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse mfalino See Profile I'm a Fan of mfalino

if you're actions result in the death of your child, because you chose your religion over that child's life, you deserve to die. If you're religion is more important to you than the life of your child then you deserve to lose that child. it's just a shame that poor innocent kid had to be born to such inhuman, amoral, religite monsters.

In the innitial article about this horrid story, the family members said they will take their strength from God to get through this ordeal...

are they seriouis???

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse sparkey See Profile I'm a Fan of sparkey

This almost seems like the Islamic faith. Their religious faith seems to be more important than their children or their wives, both of whom are expendible to further male dominance and secure the male's 72 or 73 virgins. I'm waiting for the church to say it was God's will. Of course, Islamic religion says it's Mohammad's will. Wher's the difference?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse 20rothmans See Profile I'm a Fan of 20rothmans

Not an accurate reflection of Islam. Islam's record is no cleaner or dirtier than Christianity on this sort of point. Both Islam and Christianity can be argued to preach respect for the body and physical well-being, as well as to make use of whatever medical support or guidance is available. However, both Islam and Christianity can be argued to preach that life is God's and that we should have total faith in him. On reflection, I would have to say that except in matters of abortion (and with only really strict adherents at that) I cannot think of an example of Muslims refusing treatment for their child on a matter of faith. I could be wrong, but I cannot think of one. It is also worth mentioning that, until the end of the Middle Ages, Islam did far more than Christianity to further the advancement of medicine and science.

Also, a theological point. Mohammed is only a prophet. The only will to be followed in Islam is that of Allah. The prophet is claimed as a great example, but no more.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse Dap See Profile I'm a Fan of Dap

The Ministry of any such Church should also be indited as accessories or anyone else that took part. they're all criminals.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 03/31/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

"The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead." http://vedabase.net/bg/2/en (Bg. 2.11)

We are born into a body to experience a certain balance of enjoyment and distress, and for a certain amount of time. Then another body.

"All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?" (Bg. 2.28)

The body is doomed. All that matters is to develop love of God.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 03/31/2008
collapse desthmoneses See Profile I'm a Fan of desthmoneses

Well I suppose it doesn't matter when a person gets an abortion to you does it? Religion is the nothing more than cultural ideals wrapped around the belief in god, people like you who try and justify easily avoidable deaths are less than human and are unworthy of divine forgiveness, and according to your own beliefs you will suffer everlasting punishment. I know what I'm talking about, I was raised as a christian scientist and have learned the evil of your kinds cult like practices from their examples.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 AM on 04/01/2008
collapse Pandu See Profile I'm a Fan of Pandu

I'm tempted to explain, but I doubt you'll ever understand.

Let's just say there is a huge difference between slaughtering a fetus for convenience sake to materially counter the result of illicit sex, compared to praying to God for one's child.

...regardless of what they teach little Christian Scientists.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 04/01/2008
collapse zinderel See Profile I'm a Fan of zinderel

Of course there is. One is something I find morally repugnant, but not something to be made illegal since most abortions take place before the child can survive out of the womb anyways, and the other is both morally repugnant and legally condemnable.

Abortion prevents an unwanted child from entering the world. Murder takes a viable human being with hopes and dreams out of the world. There's a difference that's clearly too big to go into here.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 04/01/2008