Clinton's Push For Popular Vote Win May Not Persuade Superdelegates

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First Posted: 04- 2-08 08:27 AM   |   Updated: 04-10-08 05:12 AM

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In recent days, aides to Sen. Hillary Clinton have increasingly pressed the idea that the popular vote in the Democratic primary should be a guide for superdelegates deciding which candidate to support.

On Tuesday, for example, Clinton's chief delegate counter Harold Ickes told Talking Points Memo, "I think being ahead in the popular vote is an important factor. I don't think it's dispositive...if at the end of the process she's running very slightly behind in the delegates overall, the popular vote will be important. I don't think it's absolutely critical."

But how much sway will the popular vote tally truly hold should Clinton (despite the long odds) actually prevail by that measure?

Interviews with a handful of superdelegates from various regions of the country suggest nearly none.

To begin with, these Democratic officials caution that the chances of Clinton actually overcoming Sen. Barack Obama's popular vote lead are exceedingly small. According to Real Clear Politics, Obama currently bests Clinton by a projected 820,000 total votes. If one includes the results of Florida, which, at this point, is not in the technical sense counted, that spread is reduced to 420,000. Michigan, where Obama's name was not on the ballot, is even more unlikely to be considered by its current tally.

Should Michigan and Florida not revote, a scenario that appears highly likely, Clinton would have to win by unexpectedly (perhaps jaw dropping-ly) large margins in the remaining ten states in order to erase that gap.

Even if she did, however, it would not necessarily portend success. The superdelegates interviewed by The Huffington Post all suggested that the popular vote would be a small measure by which they would consider the Democratic nominee.

"I believe the Clinton campaign will make a dramatic appeal for the undeclared super delegates using a variety of specious arguments," said Donna Brazile, Al Gore's former campaign manager, "but what matters most is party unity and discipline...Honestly, it's a matter of conscience and judgment because there are no rules to guide our thinking."

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Much more pertinent to a candidate's resume, as Brazille and others noted, would be the ability of the candidate to "make a good president, but also beat [Sen. John] McCain." And on this count, Clinton may in fact have a stronger case to make. As pointed out by more than one superdelegate, Clinton has triumphed in many of the traditional swing states on the electoral map, a potentially persuasive fact for those trying to map out a path to November success.

"What if you have it down to 100 delegates?" Nathan Smith, superdelegate and Kentucky Democratic Party vice chairman, asked. "Does the popular vote then have an effect? Sure it does. But I look at it in terms of states. Who is winning the states we need this fall. That has the most effect on me... Who is going to make the case to me that they are going to be the strongest candidate this fall? I want to see the grid. I want to see what states you can carry."

Another uncommitted superdelegate from the northwest who asked not to be identified iterated much the same argument.

"The popular vote, if you are talking nationwide, in my mind is maybe a factor," he said. "But none of these are black and white. I'm developing a formula where I give weight to certain pieces of the pie. I would give greater weight to the outcome of my state's primary then the national vote. After that electability plays into it.... Between the primary and convention floor something happens where it appears he can't be elected that would change my vote."

The popular vote tally in the Democratic primary has no official bearing on determining who should be the party's White House nominee. But recently, as the prospects of overtaking Obama's pledged delegate lead have become increasingly bleak, the Clinton campaign has looked to the popular vote as a symbolic tool for persuading superdelegate support. The argument is that, in a true Democratic forum, the will of all voters should matter more than a select group determined by caucuses and proportional representation.

"Let's assume that Sen. Clinton goes ahead in the popular vote count," Clinton surrogate and Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell said in a March 13 conference call with reporters. He then asked, "Which is more democratic" -- the delegates or the votes?

But for all the Jeffersonian sensibilities to the argument, the truth, some superdelegates say, is that choosing a nominee by this metric would cause as much harm as goodwill. Indeed, judging a candidate by the national popular vote could put many superdelegates at odds with the wishes of voters in their home districts. And while many officials have already done just that -- and others do not have to worry about an electoral backlash -- still more have to consider their political security when making their nominee choice.

"What do you expect us to tell people that the metric we offered -- pledged delegates -- no longer applies," said an uncommitted superdelegate. "If it had been the popular vote from the beginning, Chris Dodd would have moved his family to Los Angeles and not Des Moines. Everyone said it was a race for delegates. We spent two years putting together plans that were based on delegates... Lets say it's the Red Sox and Yankees fighting for the division. Are you going to decide it based on games won? Or, towards the end, will it change to overall score because that, in some ways, tells you who is the better team? No, you are going to go by the record because that's the way it is ultimately judged."

In recent days, aides to Sen. Hillary Clinton have increasingly pressed the idea that the popular vote in the Democratic primary should be a guide for superdelegates deciding which candidate to suppor...
In recent days, aides to Sen. Hillary Clinton have increasingly pressed the idea that the popular vote in the Democratic primary should be a guide for superdelegates deciding which candidate to suppor...
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- research I'm a Fan of research 247 fans permalink

The entire Primary process if corrupt. Being spread out over months and allowing anyone to cross party lines to votes allows infinite gaming of the system, which the rethugs have used this time to push Hillary, whom they think they can beat.

The only way to overcome these problems is with a single date primary vote country wide.

Have all the debates with all the candidates on the ballot before the primary. then rethugs won't dare waste their vote on a dem, since no McCain front runner will be gevident as now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 PM on 04/04/2008

Forgive me if I repeat what others say, but it is so irresponsible to even think of writing an article like this without mentioning the most important point. What is this silliness about who's leading in "the popular vote"? Some states -- which, coincidentally enough largely went for Obama -- had only caucuses and so their voters' choices aren't reflected commensurately in the popular vote. For example, Washington has a larger population than Tennessee and has more delegates -- 97 vs. 85 -- and presumably thus should carry more weight in any mythical "popular vote" contest. And, Obama had three times the margin of victory (68-31 vs. 54-41) than Clinton had in Tennessee. But, because Washington chose to operate by caucus and Tennessee by primary, her 82,000 vote margin in such a "contest" carries seven times the weight of his 11,600 vote margin in Washington. This makes absolutely no sense, without even getting into the issue of counting the Florida and Michigan "votes".

The raw numbers:
Tennessee 85 total delegates
Clinton 332,599 = 54%
Obama 250,750 = 41%

Washington 97 total delegates
Obama 21,629 = 68%
Clinton 9,992 = 31%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 04/03/2008
- klondiker I'm a Fan of klondiker 46 fans permalink

"What is this silliness about who's leading in "the popular vote"?"

I won't respond to that, but I'll let you think about that for a second.

As for your Tennessee and Washington comparison...

Why are you comparing percentage margins? Having "three times the margin" of victory looks very impressive, until you find out that in actual votes the difference is only 11,000. In contrast, the 54 - 41 margin doesn't look as impressive as 68 - 31, until you realize that that 13% actually represents about 7 times more votes (82,000 vs. 11,600).

And, it's interesting that you would use Washington as your example.

Washington also held a primary on February 19th. And, the results were:

Obama 354,112 = 51%
Clinton 315, 744 = 46%

That just goes to show how UNDEMOCRATIC caucuses are. They do no reflect the will of the voters at all. The 68 - 31 win at the caucus is not representative of the will of Washington voters in any way. But somehow, the will of the 30,000 who voted in the caucus in more important than the nearly 700,000 who voted in the primary. Does this seem fair and democratic??

It is too absurd to say that one vote will be one vote. And then we'll add up all the votes and see who's ahead?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 AM on 04/03/2008
- Heidfeld I'm a Fan of Heidfeld 11 fans permalink

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU Klondiker!

More people NEED to be looking at the Washington state situation. The disparity between the caucus and primary risults (and the implications for the famous pledged delegates) is alarming to say the least!

He is netting a huge gain in pledged delegates (which everyone is saying are most important) when it DOES NOT reflect the will of the voters. Texas is yet another example.

The superdelegates need to look at this... and I think they will. Without the quirky caucuses, this race would be a dead tie, not a virtual tie... if not a lead for Clinton.

I hardly expect the closed minded Obama supporters to realize this though. His followers aren't stupid, they just refuse to be fair anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 04/03/2008

Wow! I wonder if others trying to figure out these numbers get dizzy with the detail? However something that stands out from your blog klondiker is that having a different result in the primary than the caucus simply shows that two different voting procedures deliver two different results.

To understand which is more or less democratic than the other you would surely have to use a measure other than the final vote tally.

Max

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 04/03/2008

"...in actual votes the difference is only 11,000. "

That's the district vote, not popular "actual" vote. Many more people voted in the WA caucus than in the Tennessee primary.

You need to learn how the caucuses work. Each caucus held (one at each polling place), gets a vote. Each caucus has a lot of people present. They vote on a candidate. The candidate with the most votes gets the vote from that caucus. Each of these votes are tallied for the overall numbers. There were 30,000 or so caucus votes which is probably close to (I'm estimating) 1,000,000 individuals voting.

Next time, before going on a tirade, learn how these things actually work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 04/03/2008
- mesuki I'm a Fan of mesuki 12 fans permalink

I don't care how she wins...She will not get my vote period, end of story! I despise this woman!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 AM on 04/03/2008
- GrainOSand I'm a Fan of GrainOSand 269 fans permalink
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If Hillary wins the popular vote she wins. The problem for me would not be that she won it would be how.

The story of bad products from China:

Inferior products are showing up on the shelves of American grocery stores. They are making people sick after consumption. Investigative analysis has uncovered flaws in the manufacturing process that lead to a tainted final product. A recall has been ordered.

..And so it goes for a president. The only problem, a recall would take four years barring impeachment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 04/02/2008

"If Hillary wins the popular vote she wins. The problem for me would not be that she won it would be how."

Correction:

If Hillary wins the most delegates, she wins.

There simply is no way to measure the "popular vote" in any reliable way at this time, nor is it necessary to completely overhaul the rules just to accommodate the runner-up. The existing process is quite capable of yielding a winner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 AM on 04/03/2008
- GrainOSand I'm a Fan of GrainOSand 269 fans permalink
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I get what you are saying. I framed it the way I did so I could make the argument concerning the methods and tactics of desperation and how if she won that would leave us with a defective presidential product.

Thanks for illuminating my point even further. I appreciate your voice.

Love, peace and harmony

--these may never be the national reality but I still think about it. I guess I am utopian in this.

--and I would not have it any other way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 AM on 04/03/2008

The bottom line is that it comes down to the superdelegates and, if they are smart, they'll base their decision on who can win in November. Smokin' Jobama fans don't want to admit that, but it's really what matters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:39 PM on 04/02/2008
- LarBear I'm a Fan of LarBear 30 fans permalink
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Apparently, FAR More people who want Barack are anti Hillary, than Pro Barack... I make this observation as one who (A) has been posting on Huff Post (B) Someone who is pro Hillary for my choice... (Not hiding any Bias)
Barack Obama: "I believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit."
Clearly, a Majority of pro Barack people do NOT believe that... That Barack has NOT spoken out against Huff Post anti Hillary Bloggers and those who comment, makes for doubt Barack is sincere..
Is one an actual Barack supporter, when they do comments trashing the Clinton's? That being actually, and behaviorally, opposing what Barack claims to stand for... Do Barack supporters mostly brag of his accomplishments in Positive ways and dialog?
Barack stands on his Pedestal of Positive Campaigning... Others, including his Campaign people, do accusations of Racism, personal attacks, Clinton hating, for him... Barack never owns the Negative Campaign, he runs... He does NOT act response able for correcting Negative anti Clinton hating, bashing and trashing... He simply does lip service...
Clearly, getting elected is more important than Uniting, Healing and the Positive Health of the Democratic Party... Allowing Hillary to be blamed for knee capping, kitchen sink tactics and exclusive, Negativity blaming, in this Campaign, speaks Loudly to Barack's Character, dishonesty and lack of Integrity... You won't win my Vote this way...
Better a Fighter, than another slick Politician...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:54 PM on 04/02/2008
- Dalpine I'm a Fan of Dalpine 6 fans permalink

Like slick Willy? Or like the guy who will never quit fighting the Iraq war?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 04/02/2008
- buzz I'm a Fan of buzz 5 fans permalink

Well said Lar Bear. Obama can't disclaim what he inspires.
The truth is he is inspired BY a vicious hater (Wright) and he inspires hate (as you note so well.)
So, what we have is a con game. This fits perfectly with a pretender. Obama is a man who imitiates (literally) MLK (sometimes), and Malcolm X (other times). In other words, he is a man who borrows the guise of others to conceal his own (hateful) views (views his wife was repeatedly revealing, before she was sidelined.)
The false promises of unity are particulary troubling. How can this country be led by a person who expressly subscribes to a value system that evaluates ALL action by its effect on the black people of this country (12%)?
Democrats can't take Obama on with respect to his racist beliefs because they are afraid to be labeled racists themselves. But, have no doubt, those views will be exposed in the general.
And then, whether Obama wins or loses, it will make no difference.
Unity? Fairness?
What we will see is the hate that he inspires come to full fruition. Imagine Obama's followers on this website elevated to power. Do they express fair-minded, reasoned, and most importantly, unifying points of view?
That is why I oppose Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 PM on 04/02/2008
- GrainOSand I'm a Fan of GrainOSand 269 fans permalink
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Let's look at it from a standpoint of a disease breakout in two separate hospitals. Why would a physician from either hospital seek to go cure patients at the other hospital when disease is running rampant where they are if not to shift focus from that fact?

Anti-Hillary, I cannot say that I am.

Anti Hillary approach –I am guilty as charged.

I make every effort not to defame her. I try to leave no stone unturned in indicting her methods. If that is wrong then the alternative of turning a blind eye to lies, innuendo, spin, and otherwise wicked behavior is unacceptable to me.

I would do the same if I witnessed slime coming from the Obama camp. My allegiances are not to a candidate but an idea of fairness and true, morally-based solutions for problems facing this country.

Vote Truth/Justice 08.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 04/02/2008
- nomobull I'm a Fan of nomobull 44 fans permalink
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first you assume he spends time a lot of time listening to these so called bashers . and what about her response and responsiability (your word) in her handling of obama bashing so are you biased or holding both to the same standard.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 AM on 04/03/2008
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

Has Senator Clinton spoken out against the anti-Obama posters on this site and others? Don't the candidates have better things to do than send their workers to spend time on these silly blogs which contain the same comments over and over again?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 04/03/2008

Democratic Party has lost 7 out 10 presidential elections in last 40 years.

These are the people who lost elections to Republicans:

Humphrey (1968), McGovern (1972), Carter (1980), Mondale (1984), Dukakis (1988), Gore (2000) and Kerry (2004).

Why do you think these people lost elections and Obama will win? American people have never elected liberal candidates in modern American history. Obama is more liberal than six of the above candidates, except Carter. Thanks to Obama mentor, Senator Kennedy who gave away whole election in 1980 to some Republican actor.

Can you even name two democratic candidates who won presidential elections over last 40 years?

If you have said: Carter in 1976 and Clinton in 1992-1996. Yes, you are correct!

If you are true democrat voter who wants to win in November, stay with Clinton.
Clinton wins!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:27 PM on 04/02/2008

Woe to the vanquished.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 PM on 04/02/2008

Good luck with that... anyway, John McCain's speech on the economy really didn't contain anything. I have to wonder if his set policy of "do nothing" is good at all. Maybe the market corrects itself by having a depression.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 04/02/2008
- Prism I'm a Fan of Prism 6 fans permalink

Absolutley dead on! Clinton may be inside the beltway but the progressives are inside a bubble. My brain hurts as I listen to the prickly, effete posturing belching from the extreme left of our party. Believe me when I say that these clueless, aristocratic Dems on the left need to get in touch with the base. Ivy tower Dems have destroyed our party's hopes for two elections in a row because they simply DO NOT deign to acknowledge the overwhelming no-nonsense centrism of most of us. We are hard nosed pragmatists who understand that real progress is gritty work, hard won, patient. Hey, progressives: Put your elitism in a drawer, roll up your sleeves, work at a job that actually makes you break a sweat just once in your dainity lives and chuck your delicate, refined sensitivites to get a handle on the people who really determine who wins in November. No magic wands by way of messianic philosphers for us! Bring on the tough chick who combines competence, fearlessness with an understanding of how to communicate with ALL Dems. She walks effortlessly among rarified Ivy League types, but also has the extraordinary ability to relate to Chablis drinkers on the West Coast, wise guys on the streets of New York, shop keepers in Pittsburgh, roofers in rural Texas and the good ol' boys of Arkansas. Now THAT's a portfolio for success! Hey, you want to win or what??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 04/02/2008
- WH I'm a Fan of WH 2 fans permalink

You are too funny.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 04/02/2008

Prism! I hate liberals, progressives, socialists, etc., but you are awesome. Well said! You are a closet conservative my friend.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 04/02/2008
- GrainOSand I'm a Fan of GrainOSand 269 fans permalink
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No sellout of integrity and morality, no skullduggery of the electorate, no flimflam of the people is the call.

As one who has worked extensively with his sweaty hands, as well as hold many professional positions of responsibility I am forced to disagree with certain aspects of your position.

The only people I hear calling Barack Obama a Messiah are those who support other candidates. There is no feeling that the gentleman is going to "magically" be able to resolve long-standing problems in America that have existed over many presidencies. There is a feeling though, that perhaps in electing Senator Obama as president we can start to pick some of these long-standing problems off --one by one, issue by issue, utilizing roll-up-yo­ur-sleeves and sweat-on-the-brow hard work. In fact that is the un-spun version of what he says it will take.

I like tough women with integrity; but tough women without it will betray you --they will cut your throat while you are sleeping --every time.

Winning no matter what is still losing to me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 PM on 04/02/2008

.

Thank you, professorie.

I didn't know that Vegas had influence in the election of 2008.

Democrats tend to become president when the country needs leadership and course correction the most, the last exception to this being that president during the Civil War.

I'll vote for Clinton over McCain anyway, but Obama has my vote now because he's showing the leadership we've had when America was in need of if to survive.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 04/02/2008

If you are true democrat voter who wants to win in November, stay with Clinton.
Clinton wins!



LOL
She might steal or buy the nomination but she will NEVER win!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 04/02/2008
- vsign I'm a Fan of vsign 33 fans permalink

Obama argued on Hardball that he thinks he is entitled to the nomination because he has "earned" it. I would argue the opposite - he is clearly the affirmative action candidate.

I believe Hillary will have earned this nomination by the convention by showing us how she is the only candidate who can beat McCain. I really think that by the end of August, the polls will show Hillary beating McCain and Obama losing to McCain. I think Hillary will be winning the core Democratic vote.

Obama will play poker with us again - bluffing his way to the finish.

**Obama said he will tear out the bowling alley and install a basketball court in the White House. "That's why I'm running for President. That's what I'll do when I am President. Of the United States of America. We'll all be united playing basketball. That will unite us. To tear down the old - bowling alley. That's why I'm running for President."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 04/02/2008

You’re a troll and a racist.

Obama never said the basketball comment.

The most recent MSNBC Poll shows (4-2-08 at 8PM EST) shows 59% of Democrats believing Obama would beat McCAin and 64% of Republicans believing that Obama would beat McCain…. Clinton does not beat McCain in polls.

Obama's also not a Muslim, he’s Christian.

He was not born in Kenya, he was born in the USA, in Hawaii.

He not only says the Pledge of Allegiance, he often leads the Senate in the Pledge of Allegiance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 PM on 04/02/2008

Forget Vsign. WOE TO THE VANQUISHED.
We (Obama supporters) don't need to continue the vicious cycle of attacking Hillary supporters. We need to start focusing on the Republicans and Dubya’s third term. Let them say whatever they want – our guy will get it in mid-June early July. Let’s start the real fight against the Depression that McCain would bring – by carrying on failed economic policies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 04/02/2008
- mesuki I'm a Fan of mesuki 12 fans permalink

I agree,....the fact that they support her tells me that they are lost ,and we can't save them. I don't want to insult Hillary's supporters,but they just don't get it..and sadly I don't think they ever will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 AM on 04/03/2008

You also only quoted the word “earned” and you added the word ‘it’.

Obama did not say he is entitled to the nomination because he has "earned" it. That is not what he said. What he did say on Hardball tonight was,

and the entire quote was, “if in the end we have the most delegates, and we’ve won the most states, and we have the lead in the popular vote, I think that will have shown the super delegates that we’ve earned it”.

Why must you lie and simply make things up?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 PM on 04/02/2008

The problem with what Obama stated is that his actions have already corrupted his statement. The Obama camp insistetd on a knockout punch too early. What was worse was they based they based their arrogance on caucus statesl

Rather than be humbled by their success in the caucus states, they overplayed it's importance and have actually stolen some super delegates who got caught up in the hype.
Edwards noted the same trait in Obama when he left the race, Obama seemed very pleased and not too humble.

I call it youthful exuberance. Sort of like wanting to meet with every dictator on the planet in short order.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 AM on 04/03/2008

hillary can not win. She is a congenital liar and the more people get to know her, the less they like her,

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/hillary-clinton-fired-from-wat.php

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 04/03/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

If she wins the popular vote, most of the superdelegates will vote with their constituents.

If she doesn't win the popular vote, most of the superdelegates will vote with their constituents.

Because Superdelegates are mostly elected officials, and they will do what's most likely to get them re-elected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 04/02/2008
- Mattie I'm a Fan of Mattie 48 fans permalink

You mean like Kerry and Kennedy in MA. How about Richardson in NM. Those states went to Clinton, and the people they elected are voting for Obama. Obama only says it should be the will of the people when it benefits him, otherwise he says they should vote their conscience. He wants it both ways, his talk never matches his actions, the man is a fraud.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 04/02/2008

Either way a whole lot of Democrats are going to vote for McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 04/02/2008
- JimSAC I'm a Fan of JimSAC 2 fans permalink

No Democrat will ever vote for McCain. People who lie about being Democrats might, but no Democrat will vote for McCain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 PM on 04/02/2008

You're either very naive or a clinton plant.

I voted for bill clinton twice. Now the mask is off and we have seen what a monster hillary is - totally unfit for POTUS.

I would vote for the village idiot instead of hillary clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 AM on 04/03/2008

This Dem won't vote for McCain but I won;t vote for Hillary either. She's the nominee and there will be a whole lotta folks sitting at home and not voting for Hillary.
Your suppose to learn from history NOT repeat it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 04/02/2008

At this point, I'm reminded of that scene in the Palmentieri/De Niro film "A Bronx Tale", in which a bunch of bikers invade the local bar. They are asked to leave. When they refuse and continue misbehaving, they are told "OK, you were asked to leave, you refused, now you can't leave" and the doors get locked, and the baseball bats come out...

Now that Clinton has said she's in until the convention for a floor fight... That's it. No more Mr. Nice Guy, let her have it, since she asked for it. Let's see all that dirty laundry we were too polite to discuss.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:19 PM on 04/02/2008
- gregjones I'm a Fan of gregjones 16 fans permalink
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HILLARY FIRED FOR LIES, UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR FROM CONGRESSIONAL JOB: FORMER BOSS
by Ed Morrissey

As Hillary Clinton came under increasing scrutiny for her story about facing sniper fire in Bosnia, one question that arose was whether she has engaged in a pattern of lying.
The now-retired general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, who supervised Hillary when she worked on the Watergate investigation, says Hillary’s history of lies and unethical behavior goes back farther than anyone realizes.
Jerry Zeifman, a lifelong Democrat, supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee. Hillary got a job working on the investigation at the behest of her former law professor, Burke Marshall, who was also Sen. Ted Kennedy’s chief counsel in the Chappaquiddick affair. When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation – one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman’s career.
Why?
“Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality.”
I had also informed Hillary that the Douglas impeachment files were available for public inspection in the committee offices. She later removed the Douglas files without permission and carried them to the offices of the impeachment — where they were no longer accessible to the public.

Visit: www.Blacks4Barack.org

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:53 PM on 04/02/2008
- ibsteve2u I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u 135 fans permalink
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What if Hillary wins the popular vote? Huh...if Hillary wins the popular vote then...huh.

Good question. I have no answer - I have avoided thinking about it and I won't unless and until it happens.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 04/02/2008
- LBM I'm a Fan of LBM permalink
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There is no way out of this except for them sharing the ticket. If he has the delegates and she has the popular vote, super delegates can tell them that they need to share the ticket or not get their vote. Hillary will do it, but will Obama? It will take a deal to make either of them President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 04/02/2008
- hoopesaz I'm a Fan of hoopesaz 23 fans permalink

What if she won the popular votes?

Democrats would still nominate Obama. And in so doing they would weaken the consistent calls counting every vote and calling for an end to the electoral college due to it's misrepresentation of the electorate. And they would forever be silenced (meaning their argument would be disengenuous, not that they would quit arguing) about the Gore loss to Bush in 2000 and the behavior of the DC delegates that essentially gave the presidency to Bush. And about how Bush had no mandate because he lost the popular vote. And...and....and...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:15 PM on 04/02/2008

She should not be given a chance to win the popular vote.Thats why we should just stop everything and wrap up the nomination right now.Heck -we should orget about elections and just nominate Obama to presidency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 04/02/2008
- mamamay I'm a Fan of mamamay 3 fans permalink

Stop blaming votes on Blacks. We have an disenfranchisement of whites voting for Hil just to say they did not vote for a black man. Well it is time for Americans to come to the aid of their country. We need to stop this color barrier. Our young people, college class and middle class, plus many of the other and younger working class folks find Obama most likeable and most suitable to be our next President. Why are there such a few disgruntled folks who want to keep America less than a 3rd world? Get up and get a life. We need to come together and allow our country to grow. We need to open up our doors, our hearts and allow folks a chance to get to know us, and we certainly need to venture out and meet other folks of all ethnic groups. We need to know the people and we wont get to know them if we wont allow ourselves to live among them and around them. Hil is not Poplular , she is just grasping votes from the scared to vote for others group.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:23 PM on 04/02/2008
- GrainOSand I'm a Fan of GrainOSand 269 fans permalink
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Amen!

Mama may have and papa may have but God Bless America only if we unite, otherwise it is going to be a rough ride.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 AM on 04/03/2008

The bottom line is that delegates (both varieties) are what will determine the winner of this primary. If Senator Clinton can convince the 'supers' to choose her and put her over the top then so be it. She will be the nominee.

Uness you are a superdelegate you shouldn't have to argue the merits of the Clinton campaign strategy of goal post moving.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:58 PM on 04/02/2008
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Senator Obama picked up TWO more super delegates today!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:07 PM on 04/02/2008
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