Sam Stein

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Sam Stein

The Huffington Post

Murtha Rips Fellow Vietnam Vet McCain

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April 4, 2008 08:25 AM


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About Sam Stein

Sam Stein is a Political Reporter at the Huffington Post, based in Washington, D.C. Previously he has worked for Newsweek magazine, the New York Daily News and the investigative journalism group Center for Public Integrity. He has a masters from the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism and is a graduate of Dartmouth College. Sam can be reached at stein@huffingtonpost.com.

Sen. John McCain's promise to restore America's standing in the world even while maintaining troop presence in Iraq is based on an essentially faulty premise, says Rep. John Murtha, a retired Marine and Vietnam veteran.

"There is no way that us continuing in Iraq is going to allow the other countries to believe that the United States is more credible," said the Pennsylvania Democrat, one of Congress' fiercest war critics.

In an interview with The Huffington Post, Murtha described current Iraq policy as damaging to U.S. credibility, wasteful in its expenses and lives lost, and in dire need of a an expeditious but realistic conclusion. He warned that it would be difficult to recruit international support -- which McCain pledged to do in his March 26th foreign policy speech -- so long as the U.S. remains bogged down in the war.

And while Murtha has in the past acknowledged some military successes of the surge, he continued to argue that the enhanced troop presence had done little to advance America's interests in the region.

"When the allied forces had 47,000 troops there, they grew disenchanted," he said. "In Australia, the leader [John Howard] lost. In England, the leader lost, so they pulled their troops out [actually, Tony Blair stepped down]. We have about 10,000 troops [from these countries] now. So we made up for that with the surge. We sent 30,000 additional troops in. but that doesn't even make up for the 37,000 we lost."

While the congressman anticipated the upcoming congressional testimony of Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, he was not holding his breath for a change in policy. Even if there was a drastic alteration, he added, the damage from our presence in Iraq has already been done.

"We cannot afford to spend $330 million a day," Murtha declared, before noting the depreciation of bridges and highways in his home state, as well as the military equipment used abroad.

There were policy affects as well. "President Bush may have hurt us for a long time," Murtha said. "A preventive strike is something you say to yourself, there may be some cases for doing it. We are never going to do another preventive strike because of what Bush did. He has hurt our defense for a long time, maybe for history."

Indeed, Murtha argued, the Bush administration had created an environment in which diplomacy was anathema and telling the truth got one in trouble. Take, for example, the case of Navy Adm. William Fallon, who resigned from his position after being described, in Esquire Magazine, as the man standing between President Bush and war with Iran.

"Admiral Fallon made a mistake," said Murtha. "As a military leader he should never have taken the military option off the table. Adm. Fallon I have great admiration for. He was trying to make changes in Iraq that need to be done. He was trying to get the troops out. He said what I could say, but he can't say it... His situation was unfortunate because it was an excuse to get rid of him. They needed an excuse and they got it."

Unfortunately, he added, issues like these had dotted much of the Bush administration. And not only was there much in the way of U.S. foreign policy to repair, but also much from the past seven years to regret.

"I want to give the president, a president the benefit of the doubt," he said. "But with this one, I should have known better."


 
 

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The Surge is a war crime.

Threatening to invade Iran is also a war crime.

The BushCo war Machine is drumming up new "business" ,

that's all war crimes are to these fascists.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 04/05/2008

This is not about military records. Murtha is going for the real deal that is in the future and not embedded in the past, which no one knows. Murtha is logical and passionate. Truly, a person we can count with in difficult moments were we Americans are to elect another fascist into the white house.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 04/05/2008

... the very last 2 Murtha's sentences encapsulate the geniality of all pols .. remember that Murtha is the 'brains' who knows what is what on the war etc blah blah blah and the asshole does not yet know for sure if w is a lying prick .... I am tired of their 'candid' statements while civilians die ...
warmongers one and all .. assholes to the core!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 04/05/2008

This can hardly be called greater military stability, much less progress toward political consolidation, and to call it fragility that needs more time to become success is to ignore its implications. We are witnessing is more accurately described as the road to the Balkanization of Iraq, that is, political fragmentation. We are being asked by the president to believe that this shift of so much power and finance to so many local chieftains is the road to political centralization. He describes the process as building the state from the bottom up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 PM on 04/04/2008

where will Sen. McCain get the soldiers to fight in Iraq? the military is having a difficult time retaining soldiers and troop levels are dropping.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 04/04/2008

Pull them out of Korea, Bosnia(another civil war we have no business being in)Various Humanitarian missions around the globe.
That work for you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 04/04/2008

Let's just disband the police too, right?

Focus a bad don: We are talking about the Iraq war crime here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 04/05/2008

how about just using the private army of contractors, they will fight for us at 150.000 per year....and no rule of law (us of iraq) for them...after all we have over 100,000 contractors there right now...

Or maybe better yet, McCain will decide if a draft was good enough for Viet Nam, it's good enough now (with all the job losses and the recession.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 04/05/2008

Murtha. The king of pork. Same guy caught by the FBI on video with guys who bribed public officials. Murtha, unindicted co-conspirator. Example of everything that is wrong with Washington and the Democratic party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 04/04/2008

Did pull your head out of the shrub long enough to take a deep breath, make up another whopper and then stick your head back in? Do you know what a non-sequitar is?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 04/06/2008

Let's see, Murtha caught taking bribes? Well, did he accept a bribe and a republican administration let him skate? How much sense does that make? Bush and Gonzalez would have been on him like down on a duckling if there had been anything other than unprovable allegations. If someone offers you a bribe and you don't take it are you a criminal? This was on tape and that tape was shown on the news. It appeared someone was trying to set him up but he didn't fall for it. Were the bribe offerers prosecuted for "bribing" him? Do you prefer those guys who mess with pages and hang out at the glory hole or accept contractor work on homes gratis?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 04/05/2008

.....and yet, also one of the few elected officials from either party to call out Dick "five deferments" Cheney as the Chickenhawk that he is, and to point out how hypocritical it is for people like Cheney to impugn the courage or patriotism of those who DID serve (like Max Cleland).

There are worse people in Washington than Murtha.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:24 PM on 04/04/2008

Michellelover, is one of those people who claim to support the troops but wants to leave them in the middle of a civil war we have no business fighting. That's not supporting the troops. The only true and patriotic way to support the troops is to bring them home. Anything short of that, and you are responsible for hundreds and hundreds of our troops dying and for not only re-electing a warmonger, but not putting enough pressure on this immoral creep to bring our troops home. If you don't want to bring them home, that's as treasonous as anything I have witnessed since being born in this great country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 04/04/2008

Jerry you're a schmuck. It is a global world. You can not sit around hoping we are not attacked. 9/11 proved that. Iraq was run poorly for sure, but now it appears to be working and your solution is to cut and run. No surprise for a bunch of spineless whiners that want the whole world handed to them

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 04/04/2008

If Jerry is a smuck then one can only imagine what you are. The world should not be handed to anyone. let alone to a country that has torture, occupation, kidnapping, and surveillance on its own citizens. I can tell you 2 absolute things about the immediate withdrawl of all of our military personel. First, not a single American military person will die in an illegal, unnecessary, and always unwinnable war. Second, not a single Iraqi will be killed by any American military person. Both of those alone are worth our so called defeat.

I was cannon fodder in another illegal and unnecessary war fought to contain the forces of evil from dominating the free world, to fight them there so we wouldn't have to fight them here. It cost us 58,000 lives before they ran us out of their country and they still haven't shown up here. This war was sold to us by the same people who sold us that war. And they are supported by the same kind of fools now as then and for the same foolish reasons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 04/06/2008

A lot of people will not recognize this as satire and perhaps think you are less intelligent than you might want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 04/05/2008

What mission do our troops have today? Why are they there?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 04/05/2008

Michellelover, you are a shallow thinker. Our actions in Iraq have only increased the animosity and hatred that leads to terrorism. General Odom's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Iraq this week represents how military officers are much more adept at understanding war and its consequences than the civilians that make the bad decisions. A short excerpt for you:

Let me emphasize that our new Sunni friends insist on being paid for their loyalty. I have heard, for example, a rough estimate that the cost in one area of about 100 square kilometers is $250,000 per day. And periodically they threaten to defect unless their fees are increased. ...we do not own these people. We merely rent them.... this deal protects them to some degree from the government"s troops and police, hardly a sign of political reconciliation. Now let us consider the implications of the proliferating deals with the Sunni strongmen. ...the decline in violence reflects a dispersion of power to dozens of local strong men who distrust the government and occasionally fight among themselves. Thus the basic military situation is far worse because of the proliferation of armed groups under local military chiefs who follow a proliferating number of political bosses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:15 PM on 04/04/2008

Murtha is a disgrace to the Corp... He still has not apologized for his rancid accusations.... He still leads the legislature in pork

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 04/04/2008

Trying out the big lie theory? It isn't working yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 AM on 04/06/2008

not really, take a look at the map for federal dollars going to which states,,,, the top 15 are all red states.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 PM on 04/05/2008

Yawn. Studying your played out talking points, chickenhawk?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 04/04/2008

I note that you have yet to actually respond to his comment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 AM on 04/05/2008

Murtha = senile. I forgive him. He is s dufus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 04/04/2008

senile? like that chickenhawk, b-actor, moron, reagan? is that who he is senile like? ahhh yes...the republicunt icon reagan.....mr shoe polish hair ...he started the long slide into hell that republicunts have taken the u.s. on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 04/05/2008

Actually, he isn't. He's one of the edgier old guys in the Congress these days. And I love it when he gets on to something...

Said he to a reporter once when question about some report the Pentagon put about regarding the war and how "good" things were starting to look over there, "...You trust the Pentagon? Huh?" Spoken like a former marine, that which he is... Because he knows that the Pentagon operates like a corporation entirely on its own.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 PM on 04/04/2008

[actually, Tony Blair stepped down].

He lost the support of his party and got out of town a few minutes ahead of the tar-and-feathering squad showed up on the doorstep of number ten.

It's fair to call that a loss.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 04/04/2008

yes he ran right into the Investment Bankers arms for a signon bonus of 5 million.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 04/05/2008

So you consider that a success do you? I can only imagine what you will think when Bush and Cheney step down.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 AM on 04/06/2008

Murtha is right. Admiral Fallon found logic to be untenable in this lying, warmongering administration. Perhaps congress should call him to testify!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:57 PM on 04/04/2008

Since Murtha"s reckless claims, none of the Marines ended up facing murder charges. Five of the eight have had all charges dropped against them and only three still face courts martial and none for murder.


The evidence produced in the cases showed that Time and Murtha were dead wrong in their charges.


There was no rampage, no cold-blooded murders of innocent Iraqis. Yet eight United States Marines were subjected to an ordeal that has wrecked their careers and cost them tens of thousands of dollars in legal costs. We can "thank" Time and Murtha for this outrage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 04/04/2008

It is funny but I do not remember the case being tried publicly or the major networks covering it, or any public discussions about the investigation, but somehow you just know Murtha was wrong. Excuse me, but after five fucking years of incompetance, greed and lies what makes you so sure?

You must have fatih.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 04/04/2008

do a little research.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 04/04/2008

Why, you sure as hell didn't! If you had listened to or watched the Winter Gatherings you would have known that they didn't come to trial for fear that the rules of engagement these troops were operating allowed not only allowed but commanded that nurders of this type take place and they came from the top down. Just as Calley paid for every officer above him there are enlisted men in prison right now who did what they were ordered to do but were sacrificed for the higher ups. You are so naive as to believe that there was no evidence. You don't know a white wash when you see it tho there have been so many under this administration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 AM on 04/06/2008

I have. The winter soldier hearings. Innocents were dropped for being on the street.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 PM on 04/04/2008

Typical of Murtha"s rantings were his comments on a May 28, 2006, ABC News broadcast. In response to George Stephanopolis" comment that he claimed to have been briefed several times since Nov. 19 and said that that the evidence showed that the Marines had committed cold-blooded murder, Murtha said:


"Well there"s no question in my mind, what happened was an IED exploded. It killed one Marine. And then a taxi drives up. When the taxi comes up there"s four of five people in it. And they shoot ¦ shoot those four or five people unarmed.


"And then they go on a rampage throughout the houses and kill people. One woman, as I understand it, in talking to officials in the Marine Corps, was kneeling over a child pleading for mercy and they shot her in cold blood. That"s the thing that"s so disturbing. And even more disturbing is the fact that we know that the Iraqis knew about it because they made payments to the Iraqis for accidental deaths or salacious deaths whatever you want to call it. And in addition to that, they had ¦ there has to have been a cover-up of this thing."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 04/04/2008
Moderator's Pick

HuffPost's Pick

Thanks to the battalion intelligence officer, Lt. Jeff Dinsmore, who monitored the daylong engagement, the entire Marine chain of command were given the full story of the engagement that very night and it was agreed that no further action in connection with the civilian casualties was needed.


Months later, a Time story based on the testimony of two known insurgent propagandists and the stories of some Iraqi civilians falsely reported that the Kilo company Marines had wantonly murdered the dead Iraqis as an act of revenge after an IED explosion took the life of a fellow Marine.


On the basis of Time's unsubstantiated allegations alone, Murtha publicly charged the Marines had gone on a rampage to avenge the killing of their comrade in the IED explosion and had committed cold-blooded murder. Time has been forced to issue four different retractions of details in their report.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 04/04/2008

Last week's development in the Haditha case -- the dropping of all the charges leveled against Lance Cpl. Stephan Tatum for actions related to Haditha, Iraq -- drives another nail into the shameful accusations made by Time magazine and Rep. John Murtha.


Time magazine, with an assist from the Pennsylvania Democrat, sparked a legal and media inquisition against eight courageous United States Marines. Both Time and Murtha claimed these Marines committed cold-blooded murder in Haditha during a 2005 engagement.


They also alleged the Marines participated in covering up their alleged atrocities.


But after years of litigation and estimated $40 million in taxpayer funds expended, none of the Marines have been found guilty of committing murder or war crimes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 04/04/2008

The charges against Tatum were dropped and immunity granted so that he would agree to give testimony in the case against his squad leader, who directed the assault. That doesn't mean that there weren't crimes committed, it just means that we still don't know what happened.

Let's hear all the evidence before we go casting stones at Murtha or the Marines involved.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 04/04/2008

Perhaps Murtha should have had your advice before he shot his mouth off.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 04/04/2008