Andrew Sullivan: Bush Administration Officials Will Be 'Indicted For War Crimes'

Media coverage of the disclosure of the "torture memo" authored by Bush Justice Department official John C. Yoo has been mostly a deafening silence. But on this morning's Chris Matthews' show, someone finally fired a shot. As we mentioned in this morning's liveblog, credit goes to The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, for taking the opportunity to ensure that this matter got out into the televised discourse somehow.

SULLIVAN: The latest revelations on the torture front show the memo from John Yoo...means that Don Rumsfeld, David Addington and John Yoo should not leave the United States any time soon. They will be, at some point, indicted for war crimes.

[WATCH.]

The moment came during a segment on Matthews' show where the panel is invited to "tell him something he doesn't know," though this might be more accurately termed, "something he doesn't know he should talk about." Matthews is hardly alone. Via Sullivan, we are directed to the blog of Glenn Greenwald:

Here are the number of times, according to NEXIS, that various topics have been mentioned in the media over the past thirty days:

"Yoo and torture" - 102

"Mukasey and 9/11" -- 73

"Yoo and Fourth Amendment" -- 16

"Obama and bowling" -- 1,043

Story continues below

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"Obama and Wright" -- More than 3,000 (too many to be counted)

"Obama and patriotism" - 1,607

"Clinton and Lewinsky" -- 1,079

I'd also like to quote Greenwald at length here:

Every day, it becomes more difficult to blame George Bush, Dick Cheney and comrades for their seven years (and counting) of crimes, corruption and destruction of our political values. Think about it this way: if you were a high government official and watched as -- all in a couple of weeks time -- it is revealed, right out in the open, that you suspended the Fourth Amendment, authorized torture, proclaimed yourself empowered to break the law, and sent the nation's top law enforcement officer to lie blatantly about how and why the 9/11 attacks happened so that you could acquire still more unchecked spying power and get rid of lawsuits that would expose what you did, and the political press in this country basically ignored all of that and blathered on about Obama's bowling score and how he eats chocolate, wouldn't you also conclude that you could do anything you want, without limits, and know there will be no consequences? What would be the incentive to stop doing all of that?

He couldn't be more right, I'm afraid.

Comments

[Boboday555]

Mr. Sullivan actaully thinks there is still such a thing as American Justice in the wake of the Constitution Burning Bush regime?
Oh the silly little neo-con.
Heck...there ain't much America left in this country anymore!

I'll betcha' a Gazillion Euros that not one of Bush's un-American architects will ever see the inside of a courtroom...much less a jail cell!

[elpollo]

Sullivan started his remarks by stating that these creeps better not plan on leaving the USA. I don't think he meant that they would be breaking their bail bond. He obviously meant that there soon would be international indictments out for them similar to Pinochet in his last years. One may hope.

So his comment has nothing to do with "American justice" - an oxymoron. Bushco is well aware of this. That is why they refused to sign the Hague agreement and opposed it every step of the way. When Rumsfeld was in Germany last year, activists attempted to indict and arrest him on war crimes. Legally it was a no brainer because German law is very strict about war crimes, but the German government could take the heat and quashed it.

[konopelli]

As Gandhi said of "Western Civilization": American Justice? Yes, that would be a good thing.

[b2008]

Boy, that would be my dream to see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove in a court for their crimes and forget misdemeanors. Their crimes alone will give them the chair for sure. Treason should be the main offense. I would volunteer for jury duty if needed.

[NursePatric]

What I will never understand: their talking head (W) can't even talk. Their titular head is Developmentally Delayed in all dimensions -- and while I have no problem with people being mean to W. I only say it because it's true. And yet we all fell in line.
And to my fellow blogger: War and Schmar don't rhyme. "War crimes Schmar crimes" ???
OK, so what I'm saying. They are war criminals. But we let them keep on doing what they did. Oh, I want more than anything to see them all in jail. It might be the first step to a better America.
I very seldom like listening to Mr. Sullivan -- but he gets an attaboy and another look from me for that performance!

[SeagirlX]

I would like to see these warmongers tried and punished for war crimes. Especially that Anti-Christ, Rumsfeld. Greedy, power-hungry fascists.

[melann830]

While most of us agree that they should suffer for their greed and crimes, especially Rumsfeld and Cheney, how many do you accuse of being Anti-Christs? I agree that Rumsfeld fits that description, but to many of you who have posted on this and other sites, you also accuse Senator Clinton unfairly of being the very same thing. Let's all be really sure we are on the same page. Anti-christ=Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc..Caught in the middle and decieved: Senator Clinton and every other congress member that gave their vote for the invasion of Iraq.

[EbonBear]

Assuming the traditional Christian definition (I'm a Satanist, BTW), I think that epitaph fits Cheney better than Bush. I see Bush more as suffering from stunted emotional development and none too bright, largely manipulated by the psychologically stronger Cheney.

[leftbehind2000]

We sit around and yammer about this crap. Yet no one actually ever does anything, myself included.

So what's the point?

What we need is to have the draft re-instituted. Then all of these comments might actually turn into action. People with influence would get involved. And the rest of us would take to the streets instead of sitting in front of our computer screens filling this and thousands of other sites with meaningless comments.

[tandrmcdonald]

Note to leftbehind2000;
Re; reinstate the draft. Sure, then another generation of children of the rich and well connected can dodge military service, or be bailed out by daddy and go on to glory like George W. The draft is not the answer, competent management of military resources is. We haven't had that since Dubya stole the Oval Office.
Gramma Rose

[leftbehind2000]

I don't disagree with you at all. I just think that most people pay lip service until it actually happens to them personally. Typing our opinion here rarely does more than give us a moment's satisfaction - marveling at our own wisdom.

[konopelli]

The draft is not the answer, competent management of military resources is. We haven't had that since Dubya stole the Oval Office.
Gramma Rose

I presume you would include the prevention of unprovoked, armed aggression against an otherwise peaceful nation by USer "military resources" within the ambit of the competent management of same?

"Competent management" could never solve the problems unleashed after the first blasts of 'shock & awe' rocked Bagdhad, when the first GI boot trod Iraqi sand coming out of Kuwait. This will ultimately become known to history as one of the most enormous, anihillating, devastating Imperial strategic blunders of all time.

[b2008]

The point is DO SOMETHING!

[ClosetExtrovert]

Andrew was a huge Bush supporter. He was absusive and degrading when he debated with democrats. And now he's calling for this and has fallen for Obama.
I can't even TELL you how much I am enjoying the I TOLD YOU SO, ANDREW.

[realpolitic]

Yes, he falls in love with one candidate after another and follows them blindly. Fortunately, with Obama it is a little more deserved than the blind affection Sullivan had for Bush.

[ClosetExtrovert]

So how's his track record? Did he EVER pick a winner?

[Sarastro]

Not to worry, Neocons, if impeached or convicted in American courts, President McCain will pardon you.

The Liberty Torch grows dim. Who will blow it out? Who would save it?

[WhoGetsYourVote]

And Karl Rove will be "giving his marching orders from his prison cell", as Howard Mean incorrectly lied.

[CC1]

War crimes, schmar crimes. You can indict people all day long, but if no punishment is actually given out, all prosecution efforts and indictments will have been in vain. All of the so-called "liberals" and "Democrats" are all for punishing government officials, yet when it comes time to actually get your hands dirty and do something, you chicken out, because actually doing something will make your happy little lives all complicated. There are 300 million of us, and the time to take matters into our own hands by using ACTUAL FORCE and NOT WORDS has been long overdue. As long as only a small minority of Americans believe that, things won't change.

[thatvisionthing]

Speak for yourself. We've had 60 years of relying on force and not reason. We haven't respected, we haven't talked and listened as equals. We have betrayed our heritage. I'm ashamed of it all. We could have and should have been better than this. We are reaping what we sowed.

As for liberals and Democrats -- "yet when it comes time to actually get your hands dirty and do something, you chicken out" -- that's rich, REALLY rich. Check out the list of chickenhawks who advocate war but did not serve at http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/2005/08/mass-gov-romney-r.html (scroll down). They're all Republican neocons. See the list of Democrats who served that follows.

[applespider]

To which "heritage" of talking and listening as equals are you referring?

- Is that the heritage of smallpox blankets, broken Indian Treaties, and Hotchkiss machine gun fire in the ice and snow at Wounded Knee?

- Or the heritage of the slave markets on the East Coast supplying free labor to the young Republic?

- How about the internment camps of Japanese Americans on the West Coast?

- Napalm in the jungles of Southeast Asia and the exposure of US soldiers to Agent Orange?

- Segregation? Whites only toilets?


Some might see that these recent developments are quite congruent with our heritage as a nation.

[factsnotfeelings]

They are counting on a nation full of pacifist or mercury poisoned TV addicted zombies. Nobody cares about the Republic anymore. Just don't want to rock the boat so I don't mess up my life. Surely those Ron Paul folks will prevail and save us all if things get really bad. Won't they? I love the MTV Martial Law PSAs. Search for them on YouTube. It shows how you can sit around and do nothing while this dictator is building your prison around you. Then when the gate snaps shut, you look all scared and surprised that it happened. Of course now you can't do anything because you waited for the noose to get a little too snug. Wake up people. These people are hoping that you are not aggressive like they are. I think I will get another cup of coffee and watch Deal or No Deal now. Surely someone else will save us. I really like Hillary and Obama. They know all of those folks at the CFR. Maybe they will persuade them to stop destroying the US or Whatever. Peace.

[b2008]

There are those of us who DO CARE, but we cannot do it ALONE. If we cannot combine our forces enough to at least COMPLAIN ENOUGH, we will never get rid of greedy, murderous powers that be. We should write CONGRESS everyday if necessary to go forward with IMPEACHMENT even if we think we won't win. We could be surprised to know who might come out of the woodwork once it gets started.

[b2008]

God will take care of them if we don't. They WILL NOT ESCAPE THEIR DOOM!

[thatvisionthing]

To CC1, you advocate using ACTUAL FORCE and NOT WORDS...

Actions can be powerful, and so can words. Violence begets violence and is self-defeating.

For powerful nonviolent actions, see the nonviolent truckers strike that Barbara Ehrenreich is blogging about here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-ehrenreich/truckers-protest-the-resi_b_95470.html

And for the power of words, see this picture: http://www.democracyfornewmexico.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/06/rfk2.jpg

[Gilda]

Bush and Cheney and the rest of the neocons will be fishing, hunting, and golfing while their wives
shop on Madison Avenue for designer shoes. Don't forget to send them your dollars for a really fine presidential library where they can house their sins and lies for future generations.

[OilWarsDotCom]

How can we get this printed on a T Shirt?
Nuremberg Indictment – WW II
“Count Two of the Indictment charges the defendants with committing specific crimes against peace by planning, preparing, initiating, and waging wars of aggression against a number of other States. It will be convenient to consider the question of the existence of a common plan and the question of aggressive war together, and to deal later in this Judgment with the question of the individual responsibility of the defendants. The charges in the Indictment that the defendants planned and waged aggressive wars are charges of the utmost gravity. War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent States alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole”

[racetoinfinity]

If you mean it literally, google and find a company that will put whatever you want on a t-shirt. The more people that wear such messages, the more awake people will become.

[thatvisionthing]

Article II, Section 4. impeachment T-shirt:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24931855@N07/2354387655/ - back
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24931855@N07/2354389787/ - front

[antilib]

What an incredibly stupid comment!!!!! Obviously you're a liberal since as everyone knows, liberals are very scary radicals who are intent on destroying this country. i.e. Ted Kennedy,
Barack Hussein Obama, Harry Read, the Clintons just to name a few. There are just too many to name here.

God help this country if a liberal (Clinton or Hussein Obama) gets elected. According to them they'll talk our enemies to death and the radical muslims are rubbing their hands together just hoping this country is stupid enough to elect a liberal.

[mengwise36]

When you say everyone knows, do you mean every non-liberal or everyone everyone? I am pretty sure that the "scary radicals" would disagree with you, not that matters to you.

Putting the liberal aside, let's see what your hero, Mr. Bush, did after he took office, shall we? Everyone knows that he dropped the ball before 9/11. Richard Clark and the anti-terrorism community warned him over and over and he did nothing. Then 9/11. He drove the Taliban out of power. Then he started Iraq even when everyone knew that Iraq was contained for 10 years and posed no threat what so ever. He invaded another nation when everyone, including Channey, knew it was a bad idea. He did not send enough troops when everyone, including his top generals, knew that it would take more troops. He let Bremmer turn Iraq into complete chaos when everyone knew that disbanding the army and de-bathification would do that that. I don't know about the enemy but I am sure 20 million of Iraqis are "rubbing their hands together just hoping" that we would leave.

[djk37]

You are SO RIGHT - I hope the liberals don't come along and "destroy this country," because things are going SO WELL right now. I say we ammend the Constitution so that George W. and Cheney can stay in office indefinitely and help us continue this grand prosperity that we are experiencing right now.

Clearly the scare tactics of this administration have worked well on you. "Oh no, I need the big strong Republicans to defeat the terrorists by actually not defeating the terrorists but instead taking us to war with a country that OPPOSES terrorists and by doing so, weaken our military to the point where we would not be able to defend ourselves from a serious attack... OH WAIT!... maybe that wouldn't be a good thing.... no, it would be - because ANYTHING would be better than have one of those LIBERALS in office.... I mean come on, who TALKS and uses DIPLOMACY? That is SO weak. War is DEFINITELY the way to go - just look at this war we're in now for example...."

I could keep going on, but I'll stop here.

[JFWilliam]

"If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." - Noam Chomsky

McCAIN'S KILLING FLOOR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4QKfDdJ3ns

OBAMA & HILLARY'S KILLING FLOOR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scNLxSleuec

EXECUTIVE RESUME
http://whitenoise.webnode.com

"The tyrant, who in order to hold his power, suppresses every superiority, does away with good men, forbids education and light, controls every movement of the citizens and, keeping them under a perpetual servitude, wants them to grow accustomed to baseness and cowardice, has his spies everywhere to listen to what is said in the meetings, and spreads dissension and calumny among the citizens and impoverishes them, is obliged to make war in order to keep his subjects occupied and impose on them permanent need of a chief." - Aristotle

[plainsman]

Chilling.

[factsnotfeelings]

Good point. Let's apply the Nuremberg Laws NOW!!!

[OilWarsDotCom]

USC Title 18 – Part 1 Chapter 118 Section 2441
War Crimes

(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.
(b) Circumstances.— The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).
(c) Definition.— As used in this section the term “war crime” means any conduct—
(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with non-international armed conflict; or

[OilWarsDotCom]

(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.

[OilWarsDotCom]

Here are some specific charges US Law -
Regarding the Fraud of WMD's
USC Title 18 - Section 371. Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor.

USC Title 18 – Part 1 Chapter 47 @ 1002
Possession of false papers to defraud United States
Whoever, knowingly and with intent to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof, possesses any false, altered, forged, or counterfeited writing or document for the purpose of enabling another to obtain from the United States, or from any agency, officer or agent thereof, any sum of money, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

[DFDoerr]

Let us review previous administration war crimes.

Beginning with: W - Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal
Clinton (aka: HB) : Bosnia, Serbia = War Criminal
Bush the Elder: Kuwait = War Criminal
Ronaldous Maximus Reagan = Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal
Dhimmi Carter = Do we have a winner?
Gerald Ford = Symbolic war Criminal
Nixon = Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal
LBJ = Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal
JFK = Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal
Eisenhower = Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal
Truman = Genocide againt the people of Japan = War Criminal
FDR = Crimes too numerous to count = War Criminal

I suppose we can go on, but aren't they all war criminals?

[OhMiDog]

ouch...not too sure how JFK was alive long enough to be 'criminal;... unless attempting to avoid a nuclear or nucUlar attack a crime?... go figure... sounds like you might like to live in...let's say... Canada? :-)

[tbone99]

What do you call Vietnam?

[mengwise36]

Aren't you glad you live in the last super power standing? No one will ever get to try any of our presidents no matter what.

[princessofnowt]

Check this out for making a really good point on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1EXKLVgEx0