Andrew Sullivan: Bush Administration Officials Will Be 'Indicted For War Crimes'

Media coverage of the disclosure of the "torture memo" authored by Bush Justice Department official John C. Yoo has been mostly a deafening silence. But on this morning's Chris Matthews' show, someone finally fired a shot. As we mentioned in this morning's liveblog, credit goes to The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, for taking the opportunity to ensure that this matter got out into the televised discourse somehow.

SULLIVAN: The latest revelations on the torture front show the memo from John Yoo...means that Don Rumsfeld, David Addington and John Yoo should not leave the United States any time soon. They will be, at some point, indicted for war crimes.

[WATCH.]

The moment came during a segment on Matthews' show where the panel is invited to "tell him something he doesn't know," though this might be more accurately termed, "something he doesn't know he should talk about." Matthews is hardly alone. Via Sullivan, we are directed to the blog of Glenn Greenwald:

Here are the number of times, according to NEXIS, that various topics have been mentioned in the media over the past thirty days:

"Yoo and torture" - 102

"Mukasey and 9/11" -- 73

"Yoo and Fourth Amendment" -- 16

"Obama and bowling" -- 1,043

Story continues below

advertisement

"Obama and Wright" -- More than 3,000 (too many to be counted)

"Obama and patriotism" - 1,607

"Clinton and Lewinsky" -- 1,079

I'd also like to quote Greenwald at length here:

Every day, it becomes more difficult to blame George Bush, Dick Cheney and comrades for their seven years (and counting) of crimes, corruption and destruction of our political values. Think about it this way: if you were a high government official and watched as -- all in a couple of weeks time -- it is revealed, right out in the open, that you suspended the Fourth Amendment, authorized torture, proclaimed yourself empowered to break the law, and sent the nation's top law enforcement officer to lie blatantly about how and why the 9/11 attacks happened so that you could acquire still more unchecked spying power and get rid of lawsuits that would expose what you did, and the political press in this country basically ignored all of that and blathered on about Obama's bowling score and how he eats chocolate, wouldn't you also conclude that you could do anything you want, without limits, and know there will be no consequences? What would be the incentive to stop doing all of that?

He couldn't be more right, I'm afraid.

Comments

[apostate360]

Gonzales, Yoo, Cheney, Addington, Rumsfeld, Feith, et al, should be tried for treason for attempting to undermine the Constitution and establish an omnipotent Presidency. They should be tried before a tribunal, such as specified in the Military Commissions Act, and subjected to the kind of justice they want to mete out to "enemy combatants". The ancient Athenian practice of ostracism should be revived for those found guilty - they should be stripped of their citizenship and expelled from this country. It would certainly be poetic justice if they were to be brought before an International Court and tried for war crimes. It is what they deserve!

[BlondeLebanese]

IMO, I think extrodinay rendition is called for...noth­ing could be more fair to this administration. If the folks you mentioned in your comment had any morals at all, God Himself would smote them. I knew if I lived long enough I would find someone deserving of being smoted. Ostracism would be the least that they deserved!

Peace.

[meanguy]

andrew sullivan must be sniffing the toner again... there is no way that administration officials WILL be indicted for war crimes...w­hether they SHOULD is another thing entirely..­.but actual indictments for war crimes will happen only in ted rall'sfevered little dreams

[fredhead]

Actually the beauty of the situation is that the US will have no power beyond the ability to ignore the facts. The Europeans, any uppity Iraqi, they have options provided they have the facts. My take is that there are enough facts to try Bush on down for war crimes (torture, rendition) the way the Spanish prosecutor a few years ago prosecuted Pinochet.

The point is not to clap people in jail (although that would be ideal if they're proven guilty). The point is to make a public spectacle and set a public example for future behavior. On that score, what Sullivan or anyone thinks really is moot. There are enough facts out there for anyone to begin to make a viable case in an international court of law.

In practical terms, this means Bush on down at some point will not be able to leave the US for fear of being arrested, either because a case has been won or fear of a case being won.

[Artos]

FredHead,

I disagree. The way to make the point it to punish them the way average people must endure punishment. They should not be allowed to skirt punishment the way so many white collar types do because their crimes are viewed as "victimless". The way to prevent future idiots from attempting to repeat these crimes is to exact real justice upon our present White House criminals. Isn't that what punishment is supposed to be, a deterent as well. Doesn't our legal system create punishments for that purpose in addition to ensuring that a criminal must pay up to society for that crime. We already let at least one criminal off the hook when Nixon got away with his crimes and look what that set as a precedent. Sure enough another Republican /s has/have done even worse. Hard time, at hard Labor in a hard prison is the only way. Putting them into one of those Resort Prisons is far to easy also.

[LiamSherborn]

Actually you are wrong about this.

There is a very very good chance of some of these people being indicted for war crimes. I admit that they US probably won't try them but that does not mean that they aren't likely to face something in the Hague. What these people did was not only illegal, it was also carried out against some people who were at best tangentially connected to Al Qaeda.

One last related issues that could drive this has to do with the fact that people here don't seem to understand the degree of anger felt by a lot of europeans at just the idea that their land was used in some way in connection with "extraordinary renditions­." Curiously, the very people we are constantly accusing of being pinko, actually feel stronger about our own founding principles than we Americans do.

This is some very bad stuff and it would be wonderful if real justice could be brought against these fake patriots.

Liam

[Liberal2]

I thinl bush et al. will never leave the US because, as the US did not sign the Rome Statute, we are not obligated to extradict them to the Hague. But they can be tried in absentia (I'm not a lawyer, so I'm basically guessing).

[RRH]

Andrew Sullivan is not an American citizen. He cannot vote in our elections, yet he has a lot about nothing to say . He appears on Hardball "Chris Matthews Sunday show" and behaves like Matthews lap dog.
I have come to watch with disgust the both of them. Perhaps they could take the Alex Baldwin approach and treat a woman a seriously as you do a black man. This is 2008, the 21st Century and we are way behind from even third world countries who elected woman.

[gojackets]

So, is that your best argument for voting fo Hillary? She's a WOMAN? That' very sad.....an­d I say that as a proud feminist.

[image18301]

So because he cannot vote he cannot express an opinion? Is this what you're defending?

[ohmemercylard]

i think you're wrong. i believe i recall sullivan discussing the process of his becoming an american citizen on bill maher.

[zendem1]

Skip the indictment. Go straight for the blindfolds.

[DFDoerr]

"Skip the indictment. Go straight for the blindfolds­..."

Ah! Liberal fascism at it finest.

[FredOCal]

While I agree that the comment was completely ridiculous and would make the poster as guilty as the people s/he is trying to incriminate, it is also just as ridiculous that you quote Jonah Goldberg's offensive and insulting book title as your "witty aside." From Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism:"
"Anti-indi­vidualisti­c, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only insofar as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity.... The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value.... Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number.... We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the nineteenth century was the century of the individual we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State."

If anything, it seems that our current administration has embraced these values. Look at the group-think prevalent in the aftermath of 9-11 that allowed us to give away our civil liberties and led us into a never-ending war in the Middle East. How many times did the administration attempt to link dissent with treason?

[aceholiday]

seems like he was being sarcastic, but if you wanna throw the first stone have at it

[PierreLeClerke]

April 19th ABOLISH this government at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.
Actions must follow words, We The People have heard ENOUGH!

[starrianna]

NEWS FLASH:

Andrew Sullivan snorts crack again prior to another interview!

[momofsonofwar]

you smoke crack not snort it.

[Smartey]

Maybe Sullivan puts it up his crack.

[meanguy]

i guess some folks would know that for sure...

[BlondeLebanese]

Yeah, sure he did, right after he injected a joint into his vein. What an idiotic thing to write.

[Zankee]

If we could mold these words that we express, into projectile matter, that could be leveled at the enemies of our soverinity­.., we might stand a chance...! However, that is not the case, and the old saying: "Sticks and stones...n­ames will never hurt me."; works for both sides. Words have never been of any use in preventing conflict amongst the ignorant..­, the MOVING words come only after the dead are buried and the tears have dried....

[lennix]

It will never happen becuase fox ,cnn or the so call big news papers like new york times will not look in to deep they what to look deep on some preacher that his talk is in the past and did not send no one off to die and also keep taking about a president that had sex in the white house but the great reporters like on cnn,msnbc.­fox think that this is more important then a group of fools that sent young men and women out to war to line thier greedy pockets but can look you in the eye and call everyone else un-american please give me a break

[Libsrule]

Dude, WHAT did you just say???? Try a little sentence structure and wait to reread your comment before posting.

[EyeWantOneNation]

Thanx for pointing that out...I was just giving up and letting it slide !!!!

[calirighty]

Can I buy a period, Pat?

[Trollstakeyourmeds]

LOL.

[PierreLeClerke]

It is not for the wholly owned subsidiary (MSM) to take action. We The People, the seat and source of all authority in this Republic are the Supreme Authority. It falls to U.S. to ABOLISH this criminal government as prescribed in the Preamble, to ABOLISH the government when it fails to be representational of the will of the PEOPLE. Stand up and be counted on April 19th in Philadelphia. Or forever hold your peace, or whatever is left of it.

[WilliePilgrim]

Shouldn't we revoke the FCC licenses of the networks (the cable "news-porn" producers are another story) and give them to organizations that are willing to do some kind of public affairs in which objectivity and fairness are integral? It used to be that way back when we recognized that broadcasters were using a public resource (the air waves) and for that licesnse we expected something from them aside from their making an even larger profit for their investors. Ah, were is Newton Minnow when we need him?

[EyeWantOneNation]

The major networks are corporate-owned. Ex: NBC is owned by GE. The FCC is a government organization. The government is run by corporations.

Now; connect the dots: who is the "we" that will revoke FCC licenses, when it's government ???

The must needed push in this country is to get the corporations hands off from around our necks. That's why first Kucinich, then Edwards, were run out of the Presidential race.

The Clinton's are corporate America...­no help there !!!

Obama has positions to change the status of corporate America: one of the reasons he is, and will continue, to do well with the average American !!!!

[PierreLeClerke]

Under the interim government temporarily administered by the Grosvenor's of the States, Districts and Territories, a Council on Public Integrity will be formed from Citizens from across the Country drafted annually to oversee the factual content of all publicly broadcast material and to revoke any license and ban any broadcaster, candidate or product from access to said media for any deception or attempted deception of the PUBLIC TRUST. Only an accurately and well informed Citizenry can be equipped to make sound decisions for the PUBLIC GOOD. Accurate and timely Information is a cornerstone of Liberty!

[McSurgent]

Obama and corporate America love each other thankfully. All you have left is Nader!! LOL

[Oldchef]

If I remember correctly the "I was following lawful orders from my superiors" defense didn't go over too well at the Nuremberg trials. If these criminals think their behavior is excused by these memos from their barely competent lawyers, the World Court would probably have a different opinion.

[MikePatronSaintofTruth]

Yes, and Sullivan should be in The Hague too, as a propaganda minister for this war. This guy is unbelievable. He was 1000% behind this war as late as 2007. He never ever recanted his support for the invasion. He sneered down his elitist nose at those who predicted a disaster in Iraq --and those of us who knew the invasion was all about oil from the get-go. He has been COMPLETELY wrong about EVERY SINGLE THING in Iraq from the time of the invasion in 2003 to today. And if he thinks other countries in the world are going to arrest him, he's a TOTAL MORON.
Hell, Rumsfeld even got the Belgian government to dismiss a war crimes complaint against him prior to his attendance of a NATO meeting in Brussels. The Europeans don't have the balls to do the right thing. And Pelosi and the Democrats are so pathetic I have vowed never to support a Democrat again --unless it's Russ Feingold (the only one who got everything right on Iraq).

[MikePatronSaintofTruth]

Where was Andrew Sullivan when US troops were raining down White Phosphorous on Fallujah and most certaining melting the skin off the bones of innocent Iraqi civilians? Where was Andrew M. Sullivan when 4,000,000 innocents fled Iraqi and started to live as refugees? Where was Andrew M. Sullivan after more than 600,000 innocent Iraqi men, women, and children were murdered? Where? Mr. Sullivan was incessantly patting George W. Bush on the back supporting Mr. Bush's war at every turn. Sullivan has supported the war from the beginning. Sullivan is simply not credible on all issues related to Iraq. I have repeatedly asked him to publicly state whether he has received any money from the administration to publish pro-war sentiments, and he has never responded.

[calirighty]

You're an idiot. They did no such thing. The white phosphorous were SMOKE ROUNDS. They were NOT melting the skins off of the civilians. Also, civilians were give 72 hours to get out of Fallujah. If they ignored the warning then that's THEIR fault. Finally, you need to stop lying about civilian deaths. It's not murder to shoot someone who is shooting at you. Whether or not they are civilians. Only 100,000 deaths have been CONFIRMED. This 600,000 crap is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact the the MAJORITY of those civilians killed were killed by IRAQIS AND INSURGENTS. Do you really think if we were indiscriminately killing people that there would still be fighting going on? What a tard.

[anghiari]

So Andrew Sullivan's proves he is as smart he thinks he is and changes his mind about the war... correct? Get over yourself..­.why weren't you talking about war crimes!!!!

[shocked07]

After what you have as the last sentence:

'They will be, at some point, indicted for war crimes…'

Your transcript should include:

'and deserve to be.'

This came under crosstalk from Mathews who then replied…

'really!'

That statement by Sullivan that they deserve indictment is even more telling to me. He cannot know, of course, that they will be indicted though he says so. He can know his own mind which is that he believes they deserve to be indicted.

[Bright Creature]

I can still blame them. There's blame to go around to be sure, but they knew what they were doing and they willingly took advantage of the press' complicity. I think the obvious question that NO one asks seriously is ; why the press let them get away with what they were doing? 1. conspiracy? 2. incompetence? 3. third option?

I don't think jingoism and fear is a sufficient answer, either.

[rjcrane]

I wish we knew what countries all of these war criminals might be arrested in? It isn't very likely to happen in the US and if everyone had carefully read Sullivan's statement he makes it clear it would need to happen in another country. None of those mentioned are capable of being impeached so not sure why others posting here would bring up impeachment, which is a political remedy...n­ot a remedy that places any of these people behind bars where they all belong.

But if we all want to get serious about holding these war criminals accountable for their deeds after Bush is out of office we need to force the two Dem candidates to speak on this issue during the campaign. Will any of the candidates investigate these war crimes after taking office and/or appoint an AG who will with the intent of prosecuting any of them where the evidence indicates prosecution is in order?

And we need to stand up to everyone who has the courage to speak out and call Bush and his cronies war criminals. We need to be very suspicious of any elected official who wants their picture taken standing next to Bush or shows him any respect. We need to scorn all the political theater that passes for government in D.C.

RJ Crane, topplebush.com

[Beachrunner]

Never happen. This guy is delusional.

[Boboday555]

Since you neo-cons haven't be correct about any of your other Iraq Oil War predictions, maybe its time you pinheads stopped making so many predictions.

[DMM1029]

Yes, provided we can find anyone with a spine to do so, let alone a federal judge with the stones to not cave either.

Dave McGlaughlin