Hillary Clinton's Michigan/Florida Strategy: Keep The Dispute Alive

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First Posted: 04- 7-08 09:16 AM   |   Updated: 04-15-08 05:12 AM

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Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strategic importance to the Clinton campaign of keeping the dispute alive and kicking all the way to the convention.

If Clinton maintains her commitment to take the nomination contest to Denver in August, she needs to have an issue other than her own candidacy to maintain legitimacy and to use as a lever to build momentum during the committee meetings in the week before the convention -- and on the convention floor itself.

"In every recent convention contest, there has been a credentials, rules or platform dispute that has shaped the outcome," said Carl Wagner, a Democrat who has been deeply involved in DNC and convention politics -- as Edward Kennedy's 1980 national political director and convention manger; as the DNC's director of strategic planning from 1989 to 1993; and as manager of the coordinated presidential, congressional and state Democratic campaigns of 1992.

Recent nomination fights that go to the convention have all had a key ingredient: a hard-fought "test question" or issue (analogous to the two-state issue this year) preceding the actual up-and-down vote on the candidates. The outcome of the fight over the test issue then sets the stage for the selection of the nominee.

Examples include Eisenhower-Taft in 1952, when Ike's forces won a "Fair Play" credentials fight and with it, the nomination; the 1972 McGovern-Humphrey contest which was settled by votes on the make up of the California and Illinois delegations; and the Carter-Kennedy fight over the health care provisions of the party platform that were resolved by giving the Kennedy forces the opportunity to debate as their consolation prize.

In this respect, the very fact of having a major issue to take to the convention could well prove to be more important to Clinton than the actual settlement of the two-state seating issue.

Michigan and Florida violated national party rules by holding their primaries earlier in the season than party rules allowed, and, at the moment, the DNC has ruled that these two delegations will not be seated. Clinton won the primaries in both states.

Both Obama and Clinton appeared on the ballot in Florida, although each candidate abided by DNC rules and neither campaigned there.

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The situation in Michigan is more problematic: Obama took his name off the ballot, while Clinton left hers on. The result was a 55 percent victory for Clinton; with 40 percent of the ballots cast for "uncommitted" and the rest for minor candidates.

So far, the Clinton campaign has attempted to cast the two-state dispute in a political/moral light, stressing the voting rights issue as well as the danger that no matter which of the candidates -- Obama or Clinton -- is the eventual nominee, if Michigan and Florida delegates are not seated, the dispute could suppress Democratic turnout and give the combined 44 electoral votes to the GOP.

"It is a bedrock American principle: we are all equal in the voting booth. No matter where you were born or how much money you were born into, no matter the color of your skin or where you worship, your vote deserves to count," Clinton's campaign declared in an email seeking signatures on a petition to support the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegations. "But millions of people in Florida and Michigan who went to the polls aren't being heard. The delegates they elected won't be seated at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this August -- and that's just not fair to those voters."

In 2000, Al Gore and George W. Bush split the Florida vote, and Bush was ruled the Florida winner in a highly controversial decision by the Supreme Court. In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry in Florida by a more substantial 381,000 votes. In 2004, Kerry won Michigan, although the margin, 51-48, was small enough to provoke worries for Democrats concerning future elections.

Neither the Obama nor the Clinton campaign show signs of a willingness to compromise -- although they would be foolish to reveal such a willingness at this stage in the negotiations.

This past week, Dean met separately with top Democrats from Florida and Michigan, and after each session, participants pledged to work out a compromise. In a joint statement issued after the Michigan meeting, for example, attendees declared their "commitment to doing everything we can to ensure that a Michigan delegation is seated in Denver this summer. ... We have every expectation that we will succeed in that endeavor, and then go on to win in November."

"I don't know what the word compromise means," Harold Ickes, lead delegate strategist for Clinton, told The Huffington Post. "If it means Hillary Rodham Clinton should give up delegates, they are barking up a very tall tree."

If the Florida and Michigan delegations were seated -- as currently constituted on the basis of primary results to date -- Clinton would gain 56 pledged delegates, according to Ickes. With Clinton now 134 delegates behind Obama, 1636 to 1502, according to RealClearPolitics, a 56-seat pick-up could have major consequences, with upcoming primaries in Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Puerto Rico conceivably providing the New York Senator with enough delegates to catch up to -- or even overtake -- Obama.

The Obama camp is determined to prevent Clinton from gaining the large block of delegates up for grabs in Florida and Michigan, calling instead for splitting each state's delegation down the middle.

"A 50-50 split of the delegates is an eminently fair solution, especially since originally Senator Clinton herself said the Michigan primary wouldn't 'count for anything,'" said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe.

A large block of DNC members and Democratic activists believe that it is important for discipline, and for the integrity of the primary and caucus process, that Michigan and Florida suffer a substantial penalty for breaking party rules.

It is just this kind of conflict, involving political self interest, larger questions of voting rights, party rules, and democratic ethics that create grounds for high-intensity intra-party warfare.

Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strateg...
Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strateg...
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- Tulka2 I'm a Fan of Tulka2 292 fans permalink
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The elephant in the room re Clinton's continuing chance is Media's profound conflict of interest. Right, left and especially mainstream, Media loves a horse race. What will they talk about when Clinton is gone....? Kucinich was in this very position and he was discounted out of hand. (I was a Kucinich booster.) The ONLY reason Clinton is still in it is because of the likes of Chris Matthews. When Clinton is done, Media will make McCain a viable candidate too. They are already working hard to make it be so. Sells soap.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 04/07/2008
- jstock I'm a Fan of jstock 4 fans permalink

A 50/50 split in both states would allow them to "sit" w/o rewarding their rule-breaking. Obama's campaign should NOT be punished for playing by the rules. And the Clinton camp cannot be allowed to bully the DNC or the Superdelegates about this, either. A 50/50 split sounds better and better as time goes on.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 04/07/2008

jstock....you are the foolish one....if you checked, you would know that the rules allow for a re-vote.
Obama wants to take his marbles and go home if he can't win....simple as that. I know, it's Clinton's fault....always Clinton's fault. Better wake up now and see that you boy is just business as usual.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 04/07/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

1) Howard Dean and the DNC do not have the authority to strip states of their delegation.

2) It doesn't matter if the candidates agreed to these rules, they don't have the authority to strip states of the delegations either.

3) Only a majority of the entire delegate count at the Convention can vote to unseat any particular delegations.

4) Rules? What rules? There are no rules in politics.

5) Watch and learn, children.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 04/07/2008
- SLone08 I'm a Fan of SLone08 5 fans permalink

Since the nomination process is run soley by the DNC, they absolutely have the authority to strip the states of their delgates. That being said, the delegates will be sat at the convention, but not according to the results of bogus elections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 04/07/2008

Well put, Adolf. No rules, indeed!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:58 PM on 04/07/2008
- factcheck2 I'm a Fan of factcheck2 6 fans permalink

Since when did voter disenfranchisement become a negotiable issue? Obama had the chance for a fair re-do primary in Michigan and rejected it. At some point, this election needs to stop being about making him comfortable and offering him another pillow. Besides, he has no chance of winning the general election without Michigan and Floriday, and they all hate the guy now.

It's inexplicable that anyone who wants to end the neoconservative stranglehold on the White House is still backing this fellow. Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi are only interested in maintaining their control of the party - which is why losing in November is their preference. The idea of selecting a nominee before the convention - offered under the guise of party unity and needing lead time for the fall - is really a cover for their attempt to prevent an embarrassing showdown in August over their disenfranchisment strategy to deprive Clinton of the nomination. According to the rules which they're so fond of mentioning, the nominee cannot be selected before the first ballot that takes place at the convention. Anything that happens before then is simply P.R., and if Clinton were to win in July, it would incite a riot at the convention and cause Clinton superdelegates to suffer two months of intimidation and threats from Obama supporters beforehand. The G.O.P. is also involved in this affair. For more info, check out the article I've posted at http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/2008Election.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 04/07/2008
- hubbstan I'm a Fan of hubbstan 2 fans permalink

factcheck2 - if you do care about fact check, why do you miss out on the fact that MI and FL states made decision not to do over for their own reasons of not doable after all. You can dislike Obama as much as you like, but it is clearly unfair for vast majority of Americans over all 50 states that you blame Obama on whether MI or FL re-vote or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 04/07/2008

" At some point, this election needs to stop being about making him comfortable and offering him another pillow."

You are seriously projecting.

Why should Obama give Hillary a mulligan in Michigan? Is it just because she's losing and so now she's stomping her feet like a three year old and demanding to keep playing until she wins?I'm sorry that she think the rules don't apply to her when they're inconvenient, but she really needs to grow up and have a little bit of dignity and self-respect. I used to think that she's a great role-model, but not anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 04/07/2008
- 2351 I'm a Fan of 2351 3 fans permalink

Nobody is trying to make Obama comfortable. I applaud him for knowing what's going on and his ability to be able to make the appropriate decision. I think that he would be foolish to do what Hillary says, no matter how much she spins, because in reality she is just looking out for herself, not the voters in Michigan and Florida and Michigan/Florida voters should be insulted that she thinks that they are stupid enough to believe her spin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 04/07/2008
- SLone08 I'm a Fan of SLone08 5 fans permalink

Obama proposed a caucus in MI, which is what they traditionally held there. Hillary said no. MI will go for Obama in November. FL will not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/07/2008
- mageduley I'm a Fan of mageduley 4 fans permalink

If you are going to quote SNL lines, why not use "Bitch is the new black"
At least the first word of that sentence is correct.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 04/07/2008

Florida and Michigan's votes will be counted - IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

But there's no way in hell their votes should count in the Democratic primaries.

1) They were told not to move their primaries up and what the consequences would be, but they did it anyway.

2) As a result, their primaries were invalidated and both candidates were told they wouldn't count and both agreed not to campaign. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

Those were the rules of the contest. Both candidates agreed to play by them.

PERIOD. END OF STORY.

You can't change the rules after the fact, or even have a revote because there are un-redoable aspects to the primaries - such as the Independent voters and Republicans changing party affiliation to vote for Obama, both of whom are key voting blocks for him and both of who have already voted for anyone but Hillary.

No way to undo their votes and give them a chance to cast them for Obama now, so the playing field has changed and is no longer fair.

NO REVOTE FOR THE RULE BREAKERS. We are a nation of laws, are we not?
And fairness is at the core of our beliefs. A revote would be voter fraud and disenfranchisement for all who stayed home because they were told their votes wouldn't count and in Michigan, where Obama wasn't even an OPTION on the ballot.

This "let all votes count" argument is disingenuous and specious at best.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 04/07/2008
- Amminadab I'm a Fan of Amminadab 11 fans permalink

Rules?

In politics?

Since when?

Heh. Watch and learn

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 04/07/2008
- escapee I'm a Fan of escapee 3 fans permalink
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LawOfAttracktion, You are spot on. The only reason we have to GO OVER AND OVER THE FACTS, TIME AND TIME AGAIN is because the Clinton campaign spins them nonstop. She agreed to the sanctions before the vote, then disagreed with them after the vote. She didn't care about those states before they voted and now she has become their staunch advocate! Why our so-called media (phony fact-finders) don't call her on this is mind numbing.

BTW, when will Howard Dean step in and PUBLICALLY remind candidate Clinton about the agreement she made?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 04/07/2008
- Suprshrink I'm a Fan of Suprshrink 6 fans permalink

Since, according to you, FL and MI voters will only count in November, they will likely be counting as republicans. If my party discounted my vote, I would absolutely not vote for that nominee. If you want my vote then, you better count it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 04/08/2008
- lafrance I'm a Fan of lafrance 40 fans permalink

When Michigan and Florida decided to leapfrog ahead they had multiple warnings from the DNC. They chose to ignore this even when the DNC offered to help them. If the voters are angry they need to direct it at the arrogant legislators in their state who ignored everything and everyone and went ahead knowing it would cause problems.
Michigan even did so after Florida was punished and it was signed by the democratic governor.
This is simply the stubborn and willful defiance by the two states and their politicians. Not the fault of the DNC or the candidates.
But, if Hillary had won the nomination and was now in the place of Obama, how much would she really care about the rights of voters in these two states. She is using them for her own reasons. And I doubt so much to collect more delegates, as she knows she is lost on this front, as to drag this thing out until August and disrupt the convention and make sure Obama loses the general, for daring to challenge her and win, and cause general mischief.
She is using her rage at the fact that she has lost out on the party. she is determined to see they pay for this and denying her, a Clinton, the nomination.
I doubt that the leadership knows the scale of which Hillary will go to exact pay back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 04/07/2008

What folks don't realize is that she is planning on keeping this alive all the way to Denver. Do not underestimate the Clintons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 04/07/2008

She'll probably try and keep this alive longer than that.

I have this image of Hillary wandering through the Senate a year from now with a Hillary for President placard....kind of like a modern-day version of Miss Havisham.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 04/07/2008
- Syco I'm a Fan of Syco 4 fans permalink
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When will she learn. Clinton doesn't realize that her own argument can and will be used against her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 04/07/2008
- mageduley I'm a Fan of mageduley 4 fans permalink

Nothing shows this better than video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xiiwWQSy8Q&feature=related

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 04/07/2008
- escapee I'm a Fan of escapee 3 fans permalink
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Syco, no doubt her argument CAN be used against her, but, from the way things have been going, they don't seem to be USED against her at all. Nobody seems to think her initial agreement with the sanctions is in any way relevant. Welcom to Crazy Town, USA!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:56 PM on 04/07/2008

I was unaware of all the Machiavellian tactics, assuming she can stop a super-delegate decision till the convention. Since both States have already determined that they can't re-do primaries and Hillary refuses caucuses, I thought the only reason to keep bitching about them, other than the legislative super-delegates from the States who also lose their votes, was as an argument to super-delegates that Hillary owns both States and they should consider that when voting? Of course we're now so far past the kitchen sink strategy that Hillary is claiming that elected delegates can change their votes in her favor too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:20 PM on 04/07/2008
- bobdob I'm a Fan of bobdob 18 fans permalink

"I don't think it's useful to set a deadline because I think it sends a signal to the terrorists and the insurgents that they just have to wait us out." Hillary Clinton - Associated Press, 2/20/05; New York Post, 2/21/05

"It's regrettable that the security needs have increased so much. On the other hand, I think you can look at the country as a whole and see that there are many parts of Iraq that are functioning quite well." Hillary Clinton - Associated Press, 2/19/05

"The concerted effort to disrupt the elections was an abject failure. Not one polling place was shut down or overrun. The fact that you have these suicide bombers now, wreaking such hatred and violence while people pray, is to me, an indication of their failure." Hillary Clinton - Associated Press, 2/19/05

"I think I have a responsibility to look at this as carefully as I can and say what I believe, and what I believe is we're in a very dangerous situation and it doesn't lend itself to sound bites, and therefore I have resisted going along with either my colleagues who feel passionately they need to call for a date certain or colleagues who are 100 percent behind the policy and with the president and Prime Minister Blair." Hillary Clinton - Washington Post, 5/30/06

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 04/07/2008

The number 109.

Anybody else notice the irony that the Clintons' income since 2002 has been $109 million, while the average Obama contribution has been 109 dollars?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 04/07/2008
- bobdob I'm a Fan of bobdob 18 fans permalink

Hillary is OUTRAGED that the voters in Michigan and Florida are being "disenfranchised." Of course, if the superdelegates were to disenfranchise every American who has voted for Obama by overriding their votes, THAT would be just fine with Hillary. But don't disenfranchise those voters in the two states that broke the rules.

Hillary Clinton makes me puke.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 PM on 04/07/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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Sorry, we've run out of barf bags. We're expecting new ones in with a series of "Hillary's Amazing Tales" printed on the side, the first one featuring Hillary dodging gunfire in Bosnia while shouting, "I oppose the war in Iraq...and this is before anyone even knows who Obama is!".

Collect the whole set!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 04/07/2008
- Rule Of Law I'm a Fan of Rule Of Law 161 fans permalink

"If it means Hillary Rodham Clinton should give up delegates, they are barking up a very tall tree, said Harold Ickes."

The Delegates are Not hers to give up, Harold! Both states forfeited their right to be counted when they broke the DNC rules re their primary dates. Those so-called delegates belong to neither Obama nor Hillary, and all the Orwellian twisting of the words will not make it so.

Punish both states, as the DNC rules require, and move on!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 PM on 04/07/2008
- anghiari I'm a Fan of anghiari 22 fans permalink

Well she finally gave up Marc Penn, Harold...so anything is possible isn't it?

By the way when does the tranditional media plan to sit down and run the list of Hillary's abysmal decision making and flawed campaign?...But then again, none of that really goes to the question of her experience does it? If you don't believe me asked Jake( I think, but I don't really know, so let's go with I think) Tapper, Mark (Rat Pack)Halperin and George ( Mr. Objective)Stephanopoulos...all of whom would rather challenge Obama's experience...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 04/07/2008
- Rule Of Law I'm a Fan of Rule Of Law 161 fans permalink

Mark Penn, LOL! Looks like he eats at the same Popeye's Chicken that Rove does!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/07/2008
- JackieW I'm a Fan of JackieW 2 fans permalink

Out of the mouth of the man who voted FOR the sanctions for FL/MI - stripping them of their delegates!! Harold Ickes' hypocrisy abounds!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:14 PM on 04/07/2008

As the article implies, the MI/Fla issue is a thread she can hang on to from to keep her unraveling campaign alive. Her statements are disingenuous and self-serving on face value, however. While the article states that Hillary "won" Michigan and Florida - and Hillary likes to put those states in her column - she won nothing. The states were not contested. Speaking of disenfranchising voters - how about Hillary last October telling voters in those two states that their votes wouldn't count. Many stayed home - many crossed over to vote for Republicans. Did Hillary play a role in telling voters NOT to vote? Yes. Does she share responsibility for telling voters to STAY HOME because their vote didn't matter anyway? Solely. So you tell a voter on one hand NOT to vote because it really doesn't matter - and then turn around and hold up this poor voter as being disenfranchised? In the meantime, many good Democrats are doing their best to figure out a good faith way to solve this dilemma. Hillary sullies the system and then cries when the mess she greatly helped to create isn't cleaned up to her advantage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 04/07/2008
- jazzman I'm a Fan of jazzman 241 fans permalink
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When you're the only one on the ballot.
When you're the only one with name recognition.
When your opponents never got a chance to campaign or make their case.
You tend to win everytime.

Hillary won MI/FL like Castro won Cuba.

She likes to call it fair. I like to call it manipulative sleaze.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 04/07/2008
- VOTER I'm a Fan of VOTER 187 fans permalink
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HIllary you have been over this time and time again.

Remember you last year supported the DNC's policy to punish Michigan and Florida, so

let's get on to more vital issues regarding your campaign.

Have you seen this photograph of yourself?

Lady, get yourself to a drugstore and buy some Crest Strips for your yellowing teeth.

Or use your some of millions and get a cleaning and polishing. Yikes!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 04/07/2008
- Ozarks I'm a Fan of Ozarks 49 fans permalink
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"So far, the Clinton campaign has attempted to cast the two-state dispute in a political/moral light,"
. The Michigan primary was found by a Federal Judge to be "unconstitutional". If Hillary wants to hang her hat on being the only name on a ballot that did not reflect a constitutional primary and call that a "moral" right, then all her other Whoppers pale by comparison.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 04/07/2008
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