Hillary Clinton's Michigan/Florida Strategy: Keep The Dispute Alive

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First Posted: 04- 7-08 09:16 AM   |   Updated: 04-15-08 05:12 AM

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Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strategic importance to the Clinton campaign of keeping the dispute alive and kicking all the way to the convention.

If Clinton maintains her commitment to take the nomination contest to Denver in August, she needs to have an issue other than her own candidacy to maintain legitimacy and to use as a lever to build momentum during the committee meetings in the week before the convention -- and on the convention floor itself.

"In every recent convention contest, there has been a credentials, rules or platform dispute that has shaped the outcome," said Carl Wagner, a Democrat who has been deeply involved in DNC and convention politics -- as Edward Kennedy's 1980 national political director and convention manger; as the DNC's director of strategic planning from 1989 to 1993; and as manager of the coordinated presidential, congressional and state Democratic campaigns of 1992.

Recent nomination fights that go to the convention have all had a key ingredient: a hard-fought "test question" or issue (analogous to the two-state issue this year) preceding the actual up-and-down vote on the candidates. The outcome of the fight over the test issue then sets the stage for the selection of the nominee.

Examples include Eisenhower-Taft in 1952, when Ike's forces won a "Fair Play" credentials fight and with it, the nomination; the 1972 McGovern-Humphrey contest which was settled by votes on the make up of the California and Illinois delegations; and the Carter-Kennedy fight over the health care provisions of the party platform that were resolved by giving the Kennedy forces the opportunity to debate as their consolation prize.

In this respect, the very fact of having a major issue to take to the convention could well prove to be more important to Clinton than the actual settlement of the two-state seating issue.

Michigan and Florida violated national party rules by holding their primaries earlier in the season than party rules allowed, and, at the moment, the DNC has ruled that these two delegations will not be seated. Clinton won the primaries in both states.

Both Obama and Clinton appeared on the ballot in Florida, although each candidate abided by DNC rules and neither campaigned there.

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The situation in Michigan is more problematic: Obama took his name off the ballot, while Clinton left hers on. The result was a 55 percent victory for Clinton; with 40 percent of the ballots cast for "uncommitted" and the rest for minor candidates.

So far, the Clinton campaign has attempted to cast the two-state dispute in a political/moral light, stressing the voting rights issue as well as the danger that no matter which of the candidates -- Obama or Clinton -- is the eventual nominee, if Michigan and Florida delegates are not seated, the dispute could suppress Democratic turnout and give the combined 44 electoral votes to the GOP.

"It is a bedrock American principle: we are all equal in the voting booth. No matter where you were born or how much money you were born into, no matter the color of your skin or where you worship, your vote deserves to count," Clinton's campaign declared in an email seeking signatures on a petition to support the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegations. "But millions of people in Florida and Michigan who went to the polls aren't being heard. The delegates they elected won't be seated at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this August -- and that's just not fair to those voters."

In 2000, Al Gore and George W. Bush split the Florida vote, and Bush was ruled the Florida winner in a highly controversial decision by the Supreme Court. In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry in Florida by a more substantial 381,000 votes. In 2004, Kerry won Michigan, although the margin, 51-48, was small enough to provoke worries for Democrats concerning future elections.

Neither the Obama nor the Clinton campaign show signs of a willingness to compromise -- although they would be foolish to reveal such a willingness at this stage in the negotiations.

This past week, Dean met separately with top Democrats from Florida and Michigan, and after each session, participants pledged to work out a compromise. In a joint statement issued after the Michigan meeting, for example, attendees declared their "commitment to doing everything we can to ensure that a Michigan delegation is seated in Denver this summer. ... We have every expectation that we will succeed in that endeavor, and then go on to win in November."

"I don't know what the word compromise means," Harold Ickes, lead delegate strategist for Clinton, told The Huffington Post. "If it means Hillary Rodham Clinton should give up delegates, they are barking up a very tall tree."

If the Florida and Michigan delegations were seated -- as currently constituted on the basis of primary results to date -- Clinton would gain 56 pledged delegates, according to Ickes. With Clinton now 134 delegates behind Obama, 1636 to 1502, according to RealClearPolitics, a 56-seat pick-up could have major consequences, with upcoming primaries in Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Puerto Rico conceivably providing the New York Senator with enough delegates to catch up to -- or even overtake -- Obama.

The Obama camp is determined to prevent Clinton from gaining the large block of delegates up for grabs in Florida and Michigan, calling instead for splitting each state's delegation down the middle.

"A 50-50 split of the delegates is an eminently fair solution, especially since originally Senator Clinton herself said the Michigan primary wouldn't 'count for anything,'" said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe.

A large block of DNC members and Democratic activists believe that it is important for discipline, and for the integrity of the primary and caucus process, that Michigan and Florida suffer a substantial penalty for breaking party rules.

It is just this kind of conflict, involving political self interest, larger questions of voting rights, party rules, and democratic ethics that create grounds for high-intensity intra-party warfare.

Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strateg...
Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strateg...
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We'll hear a lot more chirping from Hillary and her surrogates about how Hillary is a victim of the rules she agreed to as the PA Primary date approaches. This issue is dead, both MI and Fl have stated they will not hold a do-over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 04/07/2008

Remember the 50-state strategy (not the 48 or 40 state strategy)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 04/07/2008
- JackieW I'm a Fan of JackieW 2 fans permalink

Clinton Strategy=Rip the Party to Shreds and Lie Trying

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 04/07/2008

Obama strategy = claim you have been democratically chosen as the nominee while disenfranchising a few million voters and taking delegates from states that didn't vote for you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 04/07/2008
- Colonial82 I'm a Fan of Colonial82 2 fans permalink

Keep making things up. Clinton signed that agreement too, don't blame this on Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 04/07/2008
- Aleka I'm a Fan of Aleka 14 fans permalink

Clinton strategy = cry about disenfranchising voters while undemocratcially trying to exclude four states, exclude the people in FL and MI who stayed home b/c they actually beleived their vote wouldn't count, campaigning to overturn the vote, and stealing pledged delegates.

Low information blogger strategy = Try to claim the Obama is the one being "undemocratic" when Clinton is trying to steal an election.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 04/07/2008
- Sabreen60 I'm a Fan of Sabreen60 71 fans permalink
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I admit that I am not the most logical person in the world. But please explain how Obama is disenfranchising the Michigan and Florida delegates? It seems to be that these voters disenfranchised themselves by breaking the rules. Why should Obama cave just because Hillary is now crying because she's behind? If I were Obama I would say no way. He played by the rules. I guess to some people rules don't matter. But I'm sure Hillary will scream loud enough and long enough that the powers-that-be will give her at least part of what she wants. Wah, wah, wah!! You go girl. Turn on those tears - that'll get 'em every time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 04/07/2008
- TheCowman I'm a Fan of TheCowman 2 fans permalink
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Hard to vote for someone when he's NOT on the ballot.

Hillary ran against no one in Michigan and "won". Is that democracy???

They should re-vote both states, but since they can't or won't or whatever, how in the world is that Obama's fault?

Let me understand your argument - Michigan and Florida go AGAINST the rules of the Democratic Primary System, breaking all the rules...and now it's Obama's fault?? You want him to pony up his money to allow 2 states to re-vote that broke the rules?? Aren't there other states that are following the rules and are going to be voting that maybe he is a bit more busy with?? Should we just stop the entire Democratic Primary in the entire United States of America, just to let these two states re-vote, even though they broke the rules in the first place?

Chances are Obama would win Michigan anyway and Florida they'd probably spit...so I think for Hillary's sake, it's best they don't vote again.

OK...looks like you're going to be the first person to vote "unsatisfied" with Barack when he's president the minute he steps into office. Good stuff!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 AM on 04/07/2008
- Bozwellian I'm a Fan of Bozwellian 34 fans permalink

LOL, and the cClinton strategy, break any agreed to RULE and desenfranchise all others who stayed in the parameters of the RULES !!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 04/07/2008

Well Said!

Hillary and Bill....GO AWAY! Pack your bags up and go far, far away! You agreed in public to the votes 'not mattering' a year ago so stop your whining.In all honesty, why did you agree to these rules last year if you didn't agree with them. If you cost the Democrat's the election you will NEVER become President in 2012 or any year!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 04/07/2008

"I don't know what the word compromise means," Harold Ickes, lead delegate strategist for Clinton, told The Huffington Post. "If it means Hillary Rodham Clinton should give up delegates, they are barking up a very tall tree."

Harold Ickes you snake. You were the one who voted to strip the delegates in the first place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 04/07/2008
- stonepier I'm a Fan of stonepier 22 fans permalink
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LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 04/07/2008
- PingMama I'm a Fan of PingMama 4 fans permalink

That's right. She should be screaming at him rather than pointing the blame at everyone else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 04/07/2008

Fellow commenters, notice that all the repub talking heads support Hillary's fight all the way to Denver. They are creaming over the blood bath Hillary is inflicting on the party. In the meanwhile McCain is getting a free ride from the press, which is not to hard since the MSM loves the guy.
In FL it's my understanding that the repubs lost 50% of their delegates for having the primary before Feb 5. Almost no discussion on this. Dean has remarked about it a couple times and indicated this may be be an option for the Dems. But no other people has discussed what the repubs did to resolve their delegate issue.
The Hillary campaign reminds me of a spoil kid. If you don't give me what I want, whoever gets it will not recognize it because I've destroyed it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 AM on 04/07/2008
- Titonwan I'm a Fan of Titonwan 7 fans permalink

It's not going to matter after Pennsylvania and North Carolina! GOOOOOOO Obama! Suck on it Hillbillies!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 04/07/2008

So this is the new kind of politics? This is the transcendence above partisan bickering the the Obama-messiah is promising? What a crock...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 04/07/2008
- Aleka I'm a Fan of Aleka 14 fans permalink

Are you really so naive and gullible that you think trying to hold what anonymous bloggers on the net say has anything to do with Obama?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 04/07/2008
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The more you all scream for Hillary to quit, the more likely I am to vote for her.
Go ahead.
Keep it up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 AM on 04/07/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 30 fans permalink
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Some are hoping that Hillary will quit and some are not. What exactly do you expect to gain by threats of your individual vote going to Hillary?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 04/07/2008
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Nothing to gain.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 04/07/2008
- MPeter I'm a Fan of MPeter 25 fans permalink

You will vote for her because you are foolish, not because we screamed for her to get out. She already lost this contest. Read Mark Moulitsa's piece in Newsweek. It is dead-on. Hillary and Bill have become irrelevant like yesterday's news.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 04/07/2008
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You are wrong.
I am only considering voting for her because so many are telling her to get out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 04/07/2008

Go ahead and vote for her. That's your right....No need to use being upset as the excuse. Just do it. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 04/07/2008
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I am not upset.
Not even a little bit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 04/07/2008
- rabprevent I'm a Fan of rabprevent 11 fans permalink

Actually no ones cares; the reason so many are calling for her to get out is bacause she is non stop with the nonsense and has and will continue to come up with a million reasons/excuses which on one is buying as to why she deserves this nomination, if she ever admitted that she was getting beat fare and square people would gain respect for her. She will never admit wrong as she refuses to even admit that her voting for the war and not even reading the paperwork was wrong.

That is not solutions for America, that is George/Dick answers to America.!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 AM on 04/07/2008
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I got several responses to a comment regarding something that nobody cares about, huh?
My reason to vote for her is as valid as any other.
He's black.
She's female.
Their policies are very similar (according to them), so I'm choosing this as my reason to differentiate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 04/07/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

I find it absolutely amazing that so-called "grass-roots" Obama supporters would ignore the obvious in this situation.

His position on this is untenable.

Moreover, I find it amazing that the Democratic Party leaders have subscribed to the bully tactics. Are they nuts?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/07/hillary/index.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 04/07/2008
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Whatever.
I see little difference between the two.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 04/07/2008
- Pangaea I'm a Fan of Pangaea 3 fans permalink

I so agree with Aleka's post at 10:41 (Eastern time). Clinton's "seat the superdelegates" argument sounds disingenuous.

However, I do like to think that I am open minded and can be convinced by good facts and solid reasoning. I would be willing to support Hillary's pleas if someone can convincingly address the following:

1. If the situations were reversed (i.e., Hillary's vote/delegate count were Obama's and O'bama had won FL and MI), would Sentaor Clinton still be advocating a revote?

2. Why, if she always had her populist stance, did she agree to abide by the DNC rules drawn up before the primaries began?

I await answers...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 04/07/2008

1) Who knows, but you can bet that the Obama folks would be yelling at Clinton saying she'd do anything to win, including the disenfranchisment of millions of voters.

The question here is whether you are for more democracy or less (for a revote or against.) No matter who is making the argument, I always will go for more democracy. One must ask why Obama is for less when it suits his political ambition, and whether this truly represents a new kind of politics.

2) She agreed by the rules of the schedule but did say she hoped that there would be a resolution that would also the delegations to be seated at the convention. If you go to Hillary's website you can find the quote (I don't have the URL handy right now.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 04/07/2008
- Aleka I'm a Fan of Aleka 14 fans permalink

She rejected the solution, or are you conveniently overlooking that?

Its clear she wants - and will accept nothing less than - seating them AS IS. And that is not fair to both parties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 04/07/2008
- DocSmith I'm a Fan of DocSmith 2 fans permalink

Now, Now, Progressive. Let's be honest. You and I know well that if Obama was in the same place that Clinton finds herself in, she WOULD NOT be emphasizing this "populist" notion. I appreciate all of the fervor for both candidates, but in the REAL WORLD, we know that this is self-serving because of her belief that she should be (whether entitled or not) be the POTUS.

What is not being said is that Clinton rejected the least expensive solution which was caucuses. Why? Because she does not do well in them and Obama does better because of his grassroots organization skills. She wanted a primary. Why? Because it favors her style.

Finally, most Clinton supporters will not address the fact that when she though she was the inevitable nominee, SHE said that she knew that Michigan would not count and she was not an advocate then for their vote. I would respect her more if she would say that she has changed her position because her POSITION (trailing Obama) has changed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 04/07/2008
- Pangaea I'm a Fan of Pangaea 3 fans permalink

ProgressiveJ, thanks for your reply. In response:

Your #1:
a. You're right. No one can actually know what Clinton would say were the situations reversed. However, it seems strange that she PROMOTES the democratic process (allow the votes in MI and FL to count) when it works in her favor yet DENIES the voice of the people when it works against her (when she tells pledged delegates that they are technically not pledged and can therefore feel free to not represent the will of their constituencies)
b. I think that everyone prefers more democracy than less. However, doesn't is seem as if Senator Clinton prefers selective democracy - she is for it only if it works in her favor?

Your #2 - It would be good if you found the correct URL that addresses the quote you cited. However, even if it proves correct, "working out a resolution" is not a democratic stance. If she had said at the time, "The heck with the rules. The DNC is being anti-democratic," I would be more sympathetic to her populist pleas.

I would welcome your responses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 04/07/2008
- BlueAsh I'm a Fan of BlueAsh 5 fans permalink

Mr. Edsall forgot one key issue: Hillary has already lost! She has constructed a tough narrative based on false premises--which shifts and changes on an as-needed basis. As long as the mainstream media and bloggers like Mr. Edsall continue to explore her strategy without confronting her delusion, they are, in fact, sustaining a dying (if not dead) campaign, which started out on entitlement, fed off of Dem's desperate need for a win, won now and then on lies and spin, and continued on despite the certainty of loss.

It is time for people like Mr. Edsall to call Hillary's campaign for what it is (or what it was): A failed one that continues to be destructive. You can analyze Hillary's strategies, but please, bring us all back to reality now and then. Should anyone ask Hillary to quit? Not at all! But someone ought to call out that the empress has no clothes; others ought to join in. But the empress has the right to display her royal nakedness all she wants!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 04/07/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

She should most definitely insist that this issue be resolved. Obama's 50/50 notion is plain insulting to not only Hillary but also to American voters. Here is someone who claims he's running on a platform of change. Yet he organizes against the DNC rules to man phone banks in Michigan to get out the vote for "Uncomitted." He runs ads while others did not in FL. He makes sure his supporters block all legislative efforts to resolve this issue for voters in MI. He provides lawyers to challenge the mail-in vote plan in FL, even though he himself supported a similar plan.

A candidate of change? Hardly! This is simple old-fashioned voter disenfranchisement to win!

If the current delegate system were remotely close to making sense, Hillary would have sewn up this campaign and be the clear frontrunner. He cannot both say "She can't win!" and pretend to have this sewn up while at the same time making sure that he isn't challenged on that preposterous assertion by blocking MI and FL.

He had his chance to make it clear that he could actually win. He already blocked revotes.

Now, if he doesn't knock off the stupid 50/50 talk, he's going to blow it entirely. That proposal is unacceptable and insulting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 04/07/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 30 fans permalink
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50/50 is the only equitable way to resolve this so that FL and MI can participate at convention. How many times do you need to hear that the votes were invalid and designated as such before they were "cast?" Obama did/does not have the power to block revotes. He did not run ads in FL. The TV ads were national and came to Florida that way. But you've heard all this before, Ann. There is obviously no reasoning with you. It is obvious that your agenda is quite personal and that you have no desire or intention of listening to reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 04/07/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/07/hillary/index.html

You can suggest that this is all about Ann, but I'm certainly not alone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 04/07/2008
- BoydReed I'm a Fan of BoydReed 2 fans permalink

Your first paragraph is actually insulting to anyone who's informed about this.

Obama's campaign tried to get people to vote "Uncommitted" once it was clear that Clinton was not going to remove her name from the ballot. (Dodd tried to remove his name, but was not allowed on a technicality.) Obama, Edwards, Kucinich and Gravel all did. Why? Because their pledge said they would not "campaign or participate" in any primary set before February 5 not sanctioned by the DNC. (News flash: Clinton signed that pledge, too.)

Obama ran a few ads in Florida. Two things you don't mention, though.. (1) Obama's ads were part of a NATIONAL ad buy that was purchased before the DNC rules. (2) Clinton actually appeared at several small fundraisers in Florida before the primary. Those were allowed by the candidates' pledge.

Keep in mind that much of the Democratic leadership in Michigan - starting with Gov. Granholm - are Clinton supporters. (By the way, why not question Granholm about signing off on a primary that wasn't going to count?)

The mail-in vote in Florida would have had numerous problems with security. Yes, Oregon does their elections by mail - but they've refined their process over 10 years, including having verified scans of all voter signatures on file. There was no way to get the proper security in place in less than a few months' time to do a mail-in Florida primary.

See, these are FACTS. Next time, use some in your argument.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 04/07/2008
- davg I'm a Fan of davg 3 fans permalink

The flip side of the "count Florida/Michigan because if you don't, they'll stay home and pout in November" argument has to be considered. That flip side has to do with the potential consequences of a more probable Hillary win because of Florida/Michigan. In that eventuality, virtually all Obama supporters would have a valid reason to stay home and pout in November, that being because Hillary won by playing outside the rules. Add to that a potential exodus of independents for the same reason. IOW, you could lose votes in places like Ohio because of Florida/Michigan.

The very reason Florida/Michigan decided to gamble and push their election day up is because they have felt for years that they have had no real participation in selecting the nominee.. So they are used to the idea of not having any impact on the outcome. If they hadn't pouted before, why would they start now, especially as there is now an ethical reason why their votes should not count (they broke the rules)?

And why is it presumed that the natural response to the stripping of the delegates would be to stay home? Instead, why wouldn't they be more likely to vote? If a player in an athletic contest is put on the bench for committing a foul, once the penalty time has run out, would you expect them to sit there with their arm folded pouting? Or to get out there with even more vigor?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 04/07/2008
- Tom95134 I'm a Fan of Tom95134 57 fans permalink
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First of all, the Florida situation is not the doing of the Democratic Party. It has been forced on the Democrats BY THE REPUBLICANS!!

IMO, it's unlikely that Obama supporters would stay home in November. They understand how important it is to make suer that the Republican control of the Executive end when Bush leaves office in January. I think the Obama supporters would hold their noses and vote for Clinton which would provide a Democratic victory.

On the other hand, Clinton has been so divisive and caustic in the way she has gone about her attempt to win the nomination that if she wasn't the nominee her supporters would likely stay home or vote for McCain. Clinton is taking the approach of, "My way or the highway" and it will almost guarantee another four and possibly another sixteen years of Republican control of the White House. Remember, the voters have a very short memory and McCain might select a V.P. that has a good possibility of winning in 2012 and beyond.

Hillary could be destroying the Democratic Party and the Country in her drive to win at all costs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 04/07/2008
- LisainNYC I'm a Fan of LisainNYC 10 fans permalink

Why do people keep repeating the "Florida Republicans forced it down our throats!" canard?? Florida DEMOCRATS (except 3 of them) voted FOR moving the primary up.

They can't back away from that now that their favorite is losing and needs the votes they squandered by knowlingly breaking the rules. What is it with these people?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 04/07/2008
- AdLib I'm a Fan of AdLib 277 fans permalink
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tom95134: "First of all, the Florida situation is not the doing of the Democratic Party. It has been forced on the Democrats BY THE REPUBLICANS!!"

This actually wasn't the case, there was even video on a HuffPo article of the FL House showing Dems on the floor joking about their "protest" of moving the primary date earlier...which they swiftly voted FOR.

The Dems in FL wanted this as much as the Repubs there and the Dems in MI, to grab more power for the state, more influence in the election and all figured, "What are they going to do, diss FL? No way!" They got their just desserts and like most pols caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they point fingers at everyone other than the ones responsible, themselves.

Dems in FL and MI SHOULD be pissed but direct their anger at the actual perpetrators, their state representatives and governors who knowingly drove through the red light and dared the cops to give them a ticket. Vote them out and get more progressive, populist Dems in their place.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 04/07/2008

A recent poll indicated that 25% of Floridians who voted in the primary would switch to the Republican nominee in the general if their delegates aren't seated. There are potentially huge consequences to ignoring the will of the people in this crucial state. Obama's suggestion to split it all down the middle is terribly undemocratic, coming from someone who is advocating for a different kind of politics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 04/07/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 30 fans permalink
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To all those who are so eager to jump into the blame game...go right ahead. Life goes on and will continue to go on without you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 04/07/2008
- busybeez I'm a Fan of busybeez 4 fans permalink

Democrats won't win Florida in the general even if we do have a revote. McCain will take Florida either way, because it is one of the strongest Republican states on the map and tailor-made for McCain. Do your research. If we are going to win in the general, it won't be through Florida.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:55 PM on 04/07/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 30 fans permalink
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I am from Oregon and the nominee has always been decided before our primary. Not only that, because of our time zone, the general election is often determined before some even vote. We don't stay home and pout. Trying to anticipate how people are likely to vote or not (for whatever reasons) and basing decisions on that is, well, ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 04/07/2008
- dutchess2 I'm a Fan of dutchess2 19 fans permalink

The DNC's actions regarding Florida and Michigan did not bother Hillary because she thought she would have the nomination all sewed up on Super Tueday.

Now that she needs them, she's not above getting the Michigan and Florida voters all hyped up about
how democracy demands they have a vote, yadda yadda yadda...

Another cynical nasty from the Clinton campaign for which we will remember her forever.

We've had a good strong dose of a POTUS we could not trust as far as we could toss him...

We don't need another.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 04/07/2008
- Grannysue I'm a Fan of Grannysue 133 fans permalink
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She ain't gonna go away folks unless the people of Penn and Indiana send her packing, please do so, she has nothing but lies and disruption remaining.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 AM on 04/07/2008
- Actionmac I'm a Fan of Actionmac 10 fans permalink
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She is only alive because republicans continue to switch their party to vote for her.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/
The main reason she will NOT do interviews for news media UNLESS it is a republican print or TV supporter like FOX and the print media in PA that started the NEGATIVE stories about the clintons while in the white house, Scaith, and now http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/s_559659.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 04/07/2008
- Aleka I'm a Fan of Aleka 14 fans permalink

My pet peeve is fast becoming articles and blogs like this one, that write the idea of seating delegates from an illegal election where one of the candidates was not even on the ballot, as though it were reasonable to consider.

That may not have been Edsalls intention, but i think he does a grave mis-service to americans because it contributes to confusion and hard feelings. She did not "win" those states, as they never counted. It is NOT reasonable to seat them, because they were tainted votes cast on an uneven playing field.

It is time the media started to take responsiblilty for this misleading stuff, and IMO to show some ethics. So you all really want to send a message that it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable to change the rules and go back on your agreements after the fact? Pathetic.

The only saving grace here was that he didn't accuse Obama of "blocking" the vote like all good Clinton people do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 04/07/2008
- JackieW I'm a Fan of JackieW 2 fans permalink

Amen!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 04/07/2008

OK if they were "tainted votes", why not let them vote again? The Obama campaign has cynically tried to block revotes both in Michigan and Florida. Why is he afraid of more democracy? Why is he hiding behind "the rules" of a primary process so convulted that in two states, he won more delegates despite losing the popular vote? Why are Obama supporters so afraid of the will of the people?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 04/07/2008
- SlithyTove I'm a Fan of SlithyTove 11 fans permalink

Grudgingly, this is a rational strategy for Hillary, and in line with this old story about a vizier condemned to death by his Caliph for some misdemeanor:

The vizier pleaded to be given a year to teach the Caliph's horse to talk. The Caliph was intrigued and agreed. "Why did you make such a rash promise?" a friend asked the vizier. The vizier shrugged and said, "By the end of the year, the Caliph may forgive my misdeed, he may die, I may die, or -- Allah be praised -- the horse will talk!"

Construct your own analog of the possibilities afforded Clinton by dragging this out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 04/07/2008
- Aleka I'm a Fan of Aleka 14 fans permalink

LOL! I have actually never heard that story, but it really is apt. Thank you for sharing it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 04/07/2008
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