Hillary Clinton's Michigan/Florida Strategy: Keep The Dispute Alive

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - Hillary Clinton's Michigan/Florida Strategy: Keep The Dispute Alive stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS


First Posted: 04- 7-08 09:16 AM   |   Updated: 04-15-08 05:12 AM

I Like ItI Don’t Like It
Michi

Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strategic importance to the Clinton campaign of keeping the dispute alive and kicking all the way to the convention.

If Clinton maintains her commitment to take the nomination contest to Denver in August, she needs to have an issue other than her own candidacy to maintain legitimacy and to use as a lever to build momentum during the committee meetings in the week before the convention -- and on the convention floor itself.

"In every recent convention contest, there has been a credentials, rules or platform dispute that has shaped the outcome," said Carl Wagner, a Democrat who has been deeply involved in DNC and convention politics -- as Edward Kennedy's 1980 national political director and convention manger; as the DNC's director of strategic planning from 1989 to 1993; and as manager of the coordinated presidential, congressional and state Democratic campaigns of 1992.

Recent nomination fights that go to the convention have all had a key ingredient: a hard-fought "test question" or issue (analogous to the two-state issue this year) preceding the actual up-and-down vote on the candidates. The outcome of the fight over the test issue then sets the stage for the selection of the nominee.

Examples include Eisenhower-Taft in 1952, when Ike's forces won a "Fair Play" credentials fight and with it, the nomination; the 1972 McGovern-Humphrey contest which was settled by votes on the make up of the California and Illinois delegations; and the Carter-Kennedy fight over the health care provisions of the party platform that were resolved by giving the Kennedy forces the opportunity to debate as their consolation prize.

In this respect, the very fact of having a major issue to take to the convention could well prove to be more important to Clinton than the actual settlement of the two-state seating issue.

Michigan and Florida violated national party rules by holding their primaries earlier in the season than party rules allowed, and, at the moment, the DNC has ruled that these two delegations will not be seated. Clinton won the primaries in both states.

Both Obama and Clinton appeared on the ballot in Florida, although each candidate abided by DNC rules and neither campaigned there.

Story continues below
advertisement

The situation in Michigan is more problematic: Obama took his name off the ballot, while Clinton left hers on. The result was a 55 percent victory for Clinton; with 40 percent of the ballots cast for "uncommitted" and the rest for minor candidates.

So far, the Clinton campaign has attempted to cast the two-state dispute in a political/moral light, stressing the voting rights issue as well as the danger that no matter which of the candidates -- Obama or Clinton -- is the eventual nominee, if Michigan and Florida delegates are not seated, the dispute could suppress Democratic turnout and give the combined 44 electoral votes to the GOP.

"It is a bedrock American principle: we are all equal in the voting booth. No matter where you were born or how much money you were born into, no matter the color of your skin or where you worship, your vote deserves to count," Clinton's campaign declared in an email seeking signatures on a petition to support the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegations. "But millions of people in Florida and Michigan who went to the polls aren't being heard. The delegates they elected won't be seated at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this August -- and that's just not fair to those voters."

In 2000, Al Gore and George W. Bush split the Florida vote, and Bush was ruled the Florida winner in a highly controversial decision by the Supreme Court. In 2004, Bush beat John Kerry in Florida by a more substantial 381,000 votes. In 2004, Kerry won Michigan, although the margin, 51-48, was small enough to provoke worries for Democrats concerning future elections.

Neither the Obama nor the Clinton campaign show signs of a willingness to compromise -- although they would be foolish to reveal such a willingness at this stage in the negotiations.

This past week, Dean met separately with top Democrats from Florida and Michigan, and after each session, participants pledged to work out a compromise. In a joint statement issued after the Michigan meeting, for example, attendees declared their "commitment to doing everything we can to ensure that a Michigan delegation is seated in Denver this summer. ... We have every expectation that we will succeed in that endeavor, and then go on to win in November."

"I don't know what the word compromise means," Harold Ickes, lead delegate strategist for Clinton, told The Huffington Post. "If it means Hillary Rodham Clinton should give up delegates, they are barking up a very tall tree."

If the Florida and Michigan delegations were seated -- as currently constituted on the basis of primary results to date -- Clinton would gain 56 pledged delegates, according to Ickes. With Clinton now 134 delegates behind Obama, 1636 to 1502, according to RealClearPolitics, a 56-seat pick-up could have major consequences, with upcoming primaries in Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Puerto Rico conceivably providing the New York Senator with enough delegates to catch up to -- or even overtake -- Obama.

The Obama camp is determined to prevent Clinton from gaining the large block of delegates up for grabs in Florida and Michigan, calling instead for splitting each state's delegation down the middle.

"A 50-50 split of the delegates is an eminently fair solution, especially since originally Senator Clinton herself said the Michigan primary wouldn't 'count for anything,'" said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe.

A large block of DNC members and Democratic activists believe that it is important for discipline, and for the integrity of the primary and caucus process, that Michigan and Florida suffer a substantial penalty for breaking party rules.

It is just this kind of conflict, involving political self interest, larger questions of voting rights, party rules, and democratic ethics that create grounds for high-intensity intra-party warfare.

Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strateg...
Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean's chance of achieving an early compromise on the seating of the 210-member Florida and 156-member Michigan delegations faces a tough hurdle: the strateg...
Report Corrections
 
Comments
281
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 (6 pages total)
- Opus007 I'm a Fan of Opus007 17 fans permalink

I think we are so sick of Hillary- if by some miracle she did get the nomination- Demoncrats would be too EXHAUSTED to come out and vote in November.

Meanwhile as the Clinton campaign desparately waits for Obama to stumble she continues to make one gaffe after another. The latest is telling the story about the pregnant woman and Penn-gate. Although I am still amused by them donating 10 million to their own foundation- That's So Clinton!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 AM on 04/07/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

I'm sick of his antics on this situation. He's a huge phony.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 04/07/2008

Take a Midol, sweetie. You'll feel better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 04/07/2008

$10 million to a foundation that does work in reducing the cost of AIDS medicine in the developing world...I know, it's so greedy of them!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 04/07/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 49 fans permalink

They gave the $10 mil to a family foundation, one that has not make any substantive gifts to anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 04/07/2008
- atila I'm a Fan of atila 54 fans permalink
photo

sometimes we forget that Senator Obama is fighting against a huge machine...a big web of interests....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 04/07/2008

It was wrong to strip all of the delegates, they should have been cut by 50% instead.

That being said, if the states can't work out a way with the DNC to re-vote, I can't see how on earth they can do anything beyond:
- Count Florida but at 50% of the delegates. That allows Hillary to claim the popular vote and Obama to lessen the impact on his delegate lead.
- Split Michigan 50/50. You simply cannot do anything else when there was only 1 name on the ballot. Sorry, folks, UNCOMMITTED is not a name.

And incidentally, since Sen. Clinton is taking up the cause of not wanting to disenfranchise MI and FL, would someone please explain to me how her comments that pledged delegates are free to switch sides is something other than an attempt to disenfranchise the voters represented by those delegates that she would have switch?

Please, I know that there are Clinton supporters on this site, I really want to understand how one campaign can simultaneously make both arguments.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 04/07/2008
- kellygrrrl I'm a Fan of kellygrrrl 642 fans permalink
photo

that's a neat trick you can do when you are two-faced

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 AM on 04/07/2008
- joselopez I'm a Fan of joselopez 10 fans permalink
photo

THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN:

After the final primary on June 3, 2008, Obama is going to have a big lead in Delegates and a lead in popular votes.

At that point a deal is going to be made to sit the Florida Delegation as is and the Michigan Delegation will more than likely have to be split 50/50 even give Clinton a 55/45 split, since she won 57 percent of the vote.

She cannot claim the popular vote total from Michigan, since Obama was not on the ballot.
That coupled with Obama's expected strong victory in NC, and victories in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota, leads anyone with a clear perspective to come to the conclusion she could not overcome his popular vote lead.

WHICH BY THE WAY IS INACCURATELY BEING REPORTED AS 700k WHEN IN ACTUALITY IT IS ABOUT 800k. SEE realclearpolitics.com for accurate count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 04/07/2008
- Aleka I'm a Fan of Aleka 14 fans permalink

Well in *ACTUALITY* there IS NO "popular vote" total. What oyu see there are estimates, or "guesses".

Caucuses hand in flawed totals by comparison to primairies, and four states did not hand in numbers at all - which make this "popular vote" idea ridiculous also. Those states have to be "guessed". The difference between the 700k and the 800k numbers you see there is that the 800 adds the "guess" for the four states who don't have numbers.

Popular vote makes a difference in general, where there are winner take all states. but the dem nomination doesn't have that and that is, in fact, what the pledged delegates represent - a PROPORTIONAL allotment based on THE VOTE.

It is ridiculous to me that anyone would suggest a number that has to be guessed is somehow more important than the carefully tabulated results of an actual election. And it is ironic given the hue and cry about "disenfranchised" voters that Clinton and others pay no mind at all to the voters in all the caucus states and the four that did not hand in totals when putting up this "popular vote" idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 04/07/2008

I heard one of Obama's Super Delegates say that Michigan and Florida will be seated when they can no longer impact the election. The key is NO LONGER IMPACT THE ELECTION. That has been the strategy all along......to create the impression that he is ahead in count and momentum. The Obama campaign has claimed, ever since he won those large number of red states, that he is the inevitable winner and Hillary should say "hasta la vista", drop out of the race and kneel at his throne and kiss his ring....... The only thing about that is it is based upon a false lead. The DNC has really screwed up this election, and with the help of the vast MSM bashing of all three Clintons.....it will turn out that not only Michigan and Florida voters have been disenfranchised; millions of Hillary supporters have been disenfranchised as well. That has created a big division in the Democratic party. The perception of unfairness will taint the general election, how much is left to be seen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 04/07/2008
- loria I'm a Fan of loria 155 fans permalink
photo

I agree with your solution. It seems reasonable and is a way to actually solve the mess. I think we need to go one further and not allow the SD's from Florida or MI a vote (I believe their votes were also stripped, so this would be no change). Many of them were involved in some way in moving up the primary dates and they should in no way be rewarded with a vote considering the damage that has been done to the party as a result of their actions.

I doubt Hillary will go along with anything that doesn't reinstate the SD's and give her all of the delegates from the Jan. primaries.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 04/07/2008

Both Obama and Edwards ran MAJOR campaigns in MI telling their supportters to vote UNCOMMITTED. Since Uncomitted got 40% of the vote, it is disigenuous to assume that Obama and Edwards voters didn't use their voice and do what their candidates asked them to do.

The easiest solution to all of this mess is to REVOTE. Revoting is within the rules that all candidates agreed to 18 months ago. Obama is just obstructing and revote attempts to run out the clock and it will end up hurting his credibility in the end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 AM on 04/07/2008
- billrott I'm a Fan of billrott 9 fans permalink

Obama is not obstructing the revote. Obama did not campaign in the state of Michigan. People that supported him pushed for an uncommitted vote. The state's delegations voted down the revotes. Stop attempting to change history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 AM on 04/07/2008
- robXdion I'm a Fan of robXdion 186 fans permalink
photo

The voters themselves started the "uncommitted" movement, not Obama or Edwards. Stop making up stories to fit your bias.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 04/07/2008

I agree with your cutting the delegates in half in Florida as a way to resolve the seating of the delegation. But the popular vote in Florida is not a part of the discussion because the beauty contest was just that without the candidates being able to actually campaign in those states. The Clintons aren't really interested in the Pledged delegate argument because they can't catch Obama even if you counted the entire delegation based on the beauty contest. Their only hope is to argue for the popular vote and they don't get to make that argument because the states violated the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 04/07/2008
- riverhouse I'm a Fan of riverhouse 49 fans permalink

What the writer is really saying is the Clinton campaign intends to continue to lie about MI and FL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 04/07/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 27 fans permalink
photo

Certainly they intend to try to keep beating a dead horse hoping to keep her supporters incited.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 04/07/2008
- billrott I'm a Fan of billrott 9 fans permalink

Hillary can argue this point as long as she wants. The issue is that everyone now has gone back and pulled the information that shows she changed her opinion on these votes to serve her self interests. She will be taken to task in the coming debates on this one. She will be taken to task by the voters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 04/07/2008
- SLone08 I'm a Fan of SLone08 5 fans permalink

Democrats know that if they let her take this fight to the convention, we will lose in November. Unless she "runs the table" in the remaining contests, look for super delegates to flock to Obama to put an end to this thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 04/07/2008
- Bobby I'm a Fan of Bobby 15 fans permalink

Hillary didn't care about the Michigan and Florida primaries THEN. But NOW she does. She KNEW the rules were broken by both states and she was okay with it THEN. Because she was STILL the frontrunner. But NOW she is sinking faster than the Titanic and is about to lose the Dem nonination. Oh, how things change. One thing is still apparent though, Hillary still tells WHOPPER lies everyday.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 04/07/2008
- lincat I'm a Fan of lincat 2 fans permalink

I am so sick of her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 04/07/2008
- Countess I'm a Fan of Countess 38 fans permalink

Hillary Clinton cannot win on the merits of her candidacy nor within the existing rules thus everyone in her path must be destroyed. I hope when she finally is defeated she and those around her will realize what a terrible candidate she has been.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 04/07/2008
- Charmed I'm a Fan of Charmed 31 fans permalink

hillary is only concerned about these 2 states because she needs them. Oh my gosh, I am so tired of her fakeness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 04/07/2008
- Gma11 I'm a Fan of Gma11 12 fans permalink

I've defended Hillary to family and friends for many, many years. Championed her and respected her. Now, unfortunately, I'm just getting dang sick of her!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 04/07/2008
- missjabez I'm a Fan of missjabez 18 fans permalink
photo

This just goes along with her anything-to-win strategy. When is she going to realize that most people are sick of her and her lies? Unfortunately, she's so brazen, I doubt she would care.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 04/07/2008
- livesimply I'm a Fan of livesimply 27 fans permalink
photo

Along with many, many others, I have been shocked at her attitude of entitlement. She has been schmoozing for it for a long time with the moneyed insiders but seems to have forgotten that John Q. Public can have a mind of his/her own.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 04/07/2008

Given that Hillary agreed the strip the delegates from in the first place this says a lot about her character. Surely you should accept the consequences of your decisions even if they turn out unfavorablely to you personally.

Prior to Hillary making all the fuss there was no dispute. Michigan and Florida broke the rules and they were punished. It is only when Hillary realised that she could not win without them that she started to make a fuss. Makes it sound like she is a selfish selfserving egomaniac doesn't it.

That being said I agree with her the decision to strip the delegates was the wrong decision. However I take this positon not because of self interest but because it just seems wrong. It is too bad that Hillary did not object before the decision was taken maybe we could have avoided this mess. Another case of bad decision making on her part.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/07/2008
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 (6 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect