General Won't Promise More Iraq Pullouts

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ROBERT BURNS | April 8, 2008 11:05 PM EST | AP

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Gen. David Petraeus testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, April 8, 2008, before the Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on the status of the war in Iraq. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against impatient Democrats and refusing to commit to more withdrawals before President Bush leaves office in January.

Army Gen. David Petraeus painted a picture of a nation struggling to suppress violence among its own people and to move toward the political reconciliation that Bush said a year ago was the ultimate aim of his new Iraq strategy, which included sending more than 20,000 extra combat troops.

Security is getting better, and Iraq's own forces are becoming more able, Petraeus said. But he also ticked off a list of reasons for worry, including the threat of a resurgence of Sunni or Shiite extremist violence. He highlighted Iran as a special concern, for its training and equipping of extremists.

In back-to-back appearances before two Senate committees, Petraeus was told by a parade of Democrats that, after five years of war, it was past time to turn over much more of the war burden to the Iraqis. Those senators said Iraq will not attain stability until the United States makes the decision to begin withdrawing in large numbers and forces the Iraqis to settle their differences.

Republican Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio, a longtime critic of the administration's war strategy, told Petraeus: "The American people have had it up to here."

Petraeus responded, "I certainly share the frustration."

But when it came to promising or predicting a timetable for further withdrawals, Petraeus didn't budge. He said he had recommended to Bush that he complete, by the end of July, the withdrawal of the 20,000 extra troops. Beyond that, the general proposed a 45-day period of "consolidation and evaluation," to be followed by an indefinite period of assessment before he would recommend any further pullouts.

The Petraeus plan, which Bush is expected to embrace, reflects a conservative approach that leaves open the possibility that roughly 140,000 U.S. troops could remain in Iraq when the president leaves office next year.

Story continues below

On Thursday Bush will make a speech about the war, now in its sixth year, and his decision about troop levels.

In exchanges with several senators, Petraeus refused to say when he thought it would be safe to resume troop reductions beyond July without risking "fragile and reversible" security gains.

Asked Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee: "Could that be a month, could that be two months?"

Petraeus began to respond: "Sir, it could be less than that. It could be. ..."

Levin: "Could it be more than that?"

Petraeus: "It could be more than that. Again, it's when the conditions are met that we can make a recommendation for further reductions."

Levin: "Could it be three months?"

Petraeus: "Sir, again, at the end of the period of consolidation and evaluation. ..."

On they went in the same vein, even after a demonstrator _ "Bring them home! Bring them home!" _ interrupted the hearing and was escorted out.

When Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., started in again later, Petraeus said it would defy logic to establish a timetable before knowing what conditions will be like this summer.

"If you believe as I do _ and the commanders on the ground believe _ that the way forward on reductions should be conditions-based then it is just flat not responsible to try to put down a stake in the ground and say this is when it would be or that is when it would be," Petraeus said.

One of three senators who could be the new president by January, Hillary Rodham Clinton, said much earlier, not in a response to Petraeus, that she disagreed with those who criticized lawmakers who are calling for an orderly withdrawal.

"Rather, I think it could be fair to say that it might well be irresponsible to continue the policy that has not produced the results that have been promised time and time again at such tremendous cost to our national security and to the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States military," she said.

Sen. Barack Obama, her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, told Petraeus that while he wants U.S. troops out of Iraq he would not initiate a precipitous withdrawal. And he said talking regularly to the Iranians is critical to getting to the point where it would be safe to end American involvement.

"I do not believe we are going to be able to stabilize the situation without them," Obama said.

War supporter John McCain, who will be the GOP nominee, said: "Our goal _ my goal _ is an Iraq that no longer needs American troops. And I believe we can achieve that goal, perhaps sooner than many imagine. But I also believe that to promise a withdrawal of our forces, regardless of the consequences, would constitute a failure of political and moral leadership."

Petraeus said his plan is supported by Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who has been notably public in his expressions of concern that the heavy commitment of troops in Iraq has limited U.S. military options elsewhere and has put enormous strain on troops and their families.

Petraeus made no mention of reducing soldiers' tours of duty in Iraq from the current 15 months to 12 months, but the administration is expected to announce a decision to do that this week. It would take effect this summer, coinciding with the completion of the drawdown to 15 combat brigades in Iraq.

Petraeus said the recent flare-up of violence in Basra, in Baghdad and elsewhere points up the importance of the cease-fire declared last year by anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and highlighted the role Iran allegedly plays in funding and training Shiite militias through cells the U.S. military calls "special groups."

"Unchecked, the special groups pose the greatest long-term threat to the viability of a democratic Iraq," Petraeus said.

Testifying beside Petraeus was Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, who also focused on the violence in Basra, where Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki dispatched Iraqi security forces to combat Shiite militias.

"Taken as a snapshot, with scenes of increasing violence, and masked gunmen in the streets, it is hard to see how this situation supports a narrative of progress in Iraq," Crocker said. "There is still very much to be done to bring full government control to the streets of Basra and eliminate entrenched extremist, criminal, and militia groups. When viewed with a broader lens, the Iraqi decision to combat these groups in Basra has major significance."

WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against...
WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against...
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- Economike I'm a Fan of Economike 32 fans permalink
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Heard an Iraqi being interviewed on NPR today and he kept going on about how the government is requiring bribes for everything. Electricity, ID cards, etc. If this is the case then where is the honor in propping this government up. It's like the Bush admin. wants to create a mirror version of themselves in Iraq. This is not democracy and there is no honor in fighting for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 04/08/2008

Chairman Levin: "What You've Given...Is A Plan Which Has No End To It"

Petraeus: "Yes. And what part of fuck you did you not understand?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 04/08/2008

Honestly, we all knew exactly what Petraeus would say, and we all know the Senate would just bow down to him and give him more, more, more for as long as he needs, which is forever.

A total non-story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 04/08/2008
- lechatnoir I'm a Fan of lechatnoir 7 fans permalink
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fair enough. It's good to let off a little steam though :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 04/08/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 30 fans permalink
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Nothing but a big PR event. And nothing changes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 04/08/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1679 fans permalink
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As the lying General sat there and bragged, here is what happened on the ground:
----------------

Fear and fighting in Iraq's Sadr City
by Bryan Pearson
1 hour, 58 minutes ago

BAGHDAD (AFP) - "We're scared," admitted Abu Muamel as the sudden blast of a mortar round fightened the baby in his arms to tears and set US and Iraqi armoured vehicles racing through Sadr City's smoke-choked streets.

"It's too dangerous to stay here," Abu Muamel added as he and his family of eight on Tuesday fled the sprawling district in eastern Baghdad that is the theatre of raging battles between Mahdi Army militiamen and security forces.

...

----------------------------------------

When is all this lying going to stop? When will the Congress say enough is enough?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:01 PM on 04/08/2008

As usual-right on the money,Hume!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 04/08/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1679 fans permalink
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You are too kind with that "as usual". But, I'll take it. :-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 04/08/2008
- timothe I'm a Fan of timothe 7 fans permalink

A four star general, who has served his country honorably for decades, is a liar?

You, my friend, are the one without credibility.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 04/08/2008
- Economike I'm a Fan of Economike 32 fans permalink
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Yeah A General would never lie to us. yellowcake uranium. weapons of mass destruction. years of service?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 04/08/2008
- SonnyBono I'm a Fan of SonnyBono 21 fans permalink

Correction - a four star politician who got promoted from three star to four star by being the front man for the latest Bush dog and pony show in Iraq. What did Admiral Fallon call Petraeus - an a** kisser?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 04/08/2008

Yeah-like a four-star general like Curtis LaMay during Vietnam??And General Westmoreland?? Yeah Timid Timothe-Four-Star generals can be-and are-sometimes-4-star LIARS!!! Even Presidents and VP's and Defense Sec. can be liars-whether it's about sex with an intern -or about going to war for false lies!! Get it,shmuck???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 04/08/2008
- HumeSkeptic I'm a Fan of HumeSkeptic 1679 fans permalink
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The General is a liar. For a more elaborate discussion of this fact, see:

The General Lies

By Robert Scheer, Truthdig. Posted September 12, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/62398/

PS: And don't get so impressed by people wearing uniforms, not if you are more than 10 years of age.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 04/08/2008
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((( "A four star general, who has served his country honorably for decades, is a liar?" )))

Sadly, yes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 04/08/2008
- serialcoma I'm a Fan of serialcoma 123 fans permalink
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In order for the republican agenda to continue on its catastrophic path all reality must be denied.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 04/08/2008
- mimsnpips I'm a Fan of mimsnpips 13 fans permalink
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The repug/neo's are on it and will start (continue) asap.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 04/08/2008

I wish someone would pay me bribe money to like this war

Hint hint....

Well I guess we only give that kind of stipend to people that used to kill our troops a few months ago. Its a good thing you right wing nutjobs believe in fiscal responsiblity.

I mean imagine wht this would cast if you weren't so cheap?!? We could be in the quintillion dollar range, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 04/08/2008
- bola47 I'm a Fan of bola47 7 fans permalink
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your $600 bribe check will be mailed shortly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 04/08/2008

bola47 : A whole $600 ?

Wow... What am I going to do with ALL three minutes on the town ??


-ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 04/08/2008
- mimsnpips I'm a Fan of mimsnpips 13 fans permalink
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SOS on Capitol Hill. The general is doing what his boss tells him to do. And we are in real deep in Iraq. Why don't they call W and Darth and drill them?? It's never going to happen. Fear is the main reason they won't grill the real culprits. Be it Bush or Clinton these names instill fear in our representative's hearts.

But the Iraqi oil is paying for everything right?

These 'hearings' are more like speeches, each member of Congress with their own point plus a little spin to make themselves look good. Yeah there a exceptions, some truly care, yet for the most part SOS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 04/08/2008
- CarlsV I'm a Fan of CarlsV 12 fans permalink

Hey!

Did I scare that little Ghost away?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 04/08/2008
- timothe I'm a Fan of timothe 7 fans permalink

Seems like a very reasonable and fair minded assessment from General Petraeus. Wait 45 days after the surge has been undone before deciding on further troop reductions. If we have progress in the next 6 months similar to the last 6 months, then most of our combat forces will be home soon. (or at least not in active duty combat.

I saw today's assessment as a very positive development.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 04/08/2008

AND then Bush can turn over this nightmare to Obama! Great! This all sounds reasonable to you? Are you a halliburton employee??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/08/2008
- Gordon I'm a Fan of Gordon 30 fans permalink
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Obama is running for president, isn't he? What did you expect?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 04/08/2008
- timothe I'm a Fan of timothe 7 fans permalink

I'm sorry. I can't connect the dots. What does Halliburton have to do with General Petraeus' testimony?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 04/08/2008
- suzyku I'm a Fan of suzyku 6 fans permalink

You must be joking! Hasn't there been enough destruction of life and limb for bush's war?! Are you seriously buying this crap?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 04/08/2008

Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, everything this administration does just warms your heart, doesn't it, dear? What a good boy you are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 04/08/2008
- ranger5 I'm a Fan of ranger5 14 fans permalink

As long as the US military is in Iraq, the corporations that brought you this war will continue to rake in the dough. Halliturton, Raytheon, General Electric, Rayheon, Blackwater, etc. All these folks are getting filthy rich, and we, the American taxpayers, are supplying the funds. This war will not end without the American people demanding it, en masse. Even if that happened, and it isn't likely, the powers that be are so entrenched that they will not respond to our will. They really could care less what the American people think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/08/2008
- bola47 I'm a Fan of bola47 7 fans permalink
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hey, you left out that 22 year old with the $300 million contract for ammunition that was so old and decrepit it did not work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/08/2008
- Canaris I'm a Fan of Canaris 2 fans permalink

And as an added bonus, that ammo was made in China, making it illegal for American's to sell.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 04/08/2008

I am starting to wonder if there is a plan to unite Iraq by re-igniting the old Iran/Iraq tensions. There was some mention from Betrayus about Iraq Shia being Arab and how they fought against Iran during that bloody conflict.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 04/08/2008
- timothe I'm a Fan of timothe 7 fans permalink

General Betrayus?

You sir, have no understanding of what it takes to become a four star general. Your insinuation that General Betrayus has committed treason is offensive and beyond the pale.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 04/08/2008

I never said treason. He has betrayed us and his own ethics to become a power player. If her were honest about the situation, his answers to congress would be different. He is dishonest and by the way people in the military, even generals can be liars and unethical. Sorry to break it to you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 04/08/2008
- SonnyBono I'm a Fan of SonnyBono 21 fans permalink

And you, Sir, have absolutely no idea what it takes to become a four star general.

Besides, what would you call a man that continues to sacrafice American lives in an another country's civil war using tactics and troop levels that he knows are wrong. The general is trying to sell a military solution to a problem that everyone (that is everyone with an ounce of sense) knows requires a political solution.

The fact that you suggest that we accept everything that the military says is offensive and tells me that you either are totally ignorant of our history or just another Bush apologist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 04/08/2008
- serialcoma I'm a Fan of serialcoma 123 fans permalink
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It's certain that nothing currently being done by the bush misadministration will unite their country.. or ours.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 PM on 04/08/2008
- bola47 I'm a Fan of bola47 7 fans permalink
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this is a terrible mess that has no good solution or end in sight. if we pull out now, the country will collapse in a civil war. if we stay our troops will continue to be attacked. religious wars have been fought in the middle east for over 5,000 years. it is not going to end in our lifetime. the criminal regime in washington needs to be put on trial for war crimes and war profiteering but that will not happen. our economy is in the toilet because of the war. washington has been hijacked by criminals and thugs. the two democratic candidates are ensuring that another war hawk will be elected. i think i'll move to the bahamas and call it a day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 04/08/2008

Biden did what he's known for. Just words.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 04/08/2008

Even your boy LUGAR is excorriating these two mouthpieces for Chimpy-who can't put 2 sentences together! Then,again, he's getting out-so the truth can't hurt him any longer! What's YOUR excuse? Again-do you have a job paying more than minimum wage??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/08/2008
- serialcoma I'm a Fan of serialcoma 123 fans permalink
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Bolognaboy only hears what he is told to hear by his masters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 04/08/2008
- GarsLuber I'm a Fan of GarsLuber 12 fans permalink

and besides dodging your war, what are you good for?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 04/08/2008
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CENTCOM CHIEF, Admiral William Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an a*s-kissing little chickensh*t" and added, "I hate people like that"
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39235

Real mortality rate in Iraq:
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1669.htm
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2540.htm#001

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 04/08/2008
- browndog2 I'm a Fan of browndog2 6 fans permalink

HEARING SUMMARY;

Senators: Remember what I asked you last time? I'll ask it again.

Panelists: Why yes, and I'll provide the same answer.

Chairman: Okay then, let's have lunch!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/08/2008

If that's what you're HEARING---I suggest a Beltone hearing device-and an enema!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 04/08/2008
- browndog2 I'm a Fan of browndog2 6 fans permalink

I read just fine. Enlighten me. What have you learned today?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 04/08/2008
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Beautiful summary. Hits the nail on the head it does.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 04/08/2008

Into the breech once more, my friends... The bottomless abyss beckons.

Should it not be criminally negligent to enter public office with abject incompetence ? Would that not constitute deciet with intent to commit incapability ?

What sensible person would disagree with NOT doing a thing in the first place, being FAR LESS detrimental than doing the thing incorrectly, to GREAT collective detriment ??

How many ways can One express the concept ' quagmire ' ??

Or, how about we never should have gone into Iraq, in the first place ??? ( Refer to The Criminally Negligent. )

I feel remorse for Gen. Petraeus... As The Incompetent dumped this turd squarely in his lap. Does he remind anyone else here of a deer in the headlights ?


More to follow. -ralph

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 04/08/2008
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