General Won't Promise More Iraq Pullouts

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ROBERT BURNS | April 8, 2008 11:05 PM EST | AP

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Gen. David Petraeus testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, April 8, 2008, before the Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on the status of the war in Iraq. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against impatient Democrats and refusing to commit to more withdrawals before President Bush leaves office in January.

Army Gen. David Petraeus painted a picture of a nation struggling to suppress violence among its own people and to move toward the political reconciliation that Bush said a year ago was the ultimate aim of his new Iraq strategy, which included sending more than 20,000 extra combat troops.

Security is getting better, and Iraq's own forces are becoming more able, Petraeus said. But he also ticked off a list of reasons for worry, including the threat of a resurgence of Sunni or Shiite extremist violence. He highlighted Iran as a special concern, for its training and equipping of extremists.

In back-to-back appearances before two Senate committees, Petraeus was told by a parade of Democrats that, after five years of war, it was past time to turn over much more of the war burden to the Iraqis. Those senators said Iraq will not attain stability until the United States makes the decision to begin withdrawing in large numbers and forces the Iraqis to settle their differences.

Republican Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio, a longtime critic of the administration's war strategy, told Petraeus: "The American people have had it up to here."

Petraeus responded, "I certainly share the frustration."

But when it came to promising or predicting a timetable for further withdrawals, Petraeus didn't budge. He said he had recommended to Bush that he complete, by the end of July, the withdrawal of the 20,000 extra troops. Beyond that, the general proposed a 45-day period of "consolidation and evaluation," to be followed by an indefinite period of assessment before he would recommend any further pullouts.

The Petraeus plan, which Bush is expected to embrace, reflects a conservative approach that leaves open the possibility that roughly 140,000 U.S. troops could remain in Iraq when the president leaves office next year.

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On Thursday Bush will make a speech about the war, now in its sixth year, and his decision about troop levels.

In exchanges with several senators, Petraeus refused to say when he thought it would be safe to resume troop reductions beyond July without risking "fragile and reversible" security gains.

Asked Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee: "Could that be a month, could that be two months?"

Petraeus began to respond: "Sir, it could be less than that. It could be. ..."

Levin: "Could it be more than that?"

Petraeus: "It could be more than that. Again, it's when the conditions are met that we can make a recommendation for further reductions."

Levin: "Could it be three months?"

Petraeus: "Sir, again, at the end of the period of consolidation and evaluation. ..."

On they went in the same vein, even after a demonstrator _ "Bring them home! Bring them home!" _ interrupted the hearing and was escorted out.

When Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., started in again later, Petraeus said it would defy logic to establish a timetable before knowing what conditions will be like this summer.

"If you believe as I do _ and the commanders on the ground believe _ that the way forward on reductions should be conditions-based then it is just flat not responsible to try to put down a stake in the ground and say this is when it would be or that is when it would be," Petraeus said.

One of three senators who could be the new president by January, Hillary Rodham Clinton, said much earlier, not in a response to Petraeus, that she disagreed with those who criticized lawmakers who are calling for an orderly withdrawal.

"Rather, I think it could be fair to say that it might well be irresponsible to continue the policy that has not produced the results that have been promised time and time again at such tremendous cost to our national security and to the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States military," she said.

Sen. Barack Obama, her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, told Petraeus that while he wants U.S. troops out of Iraq he would not initiate a precipitous withdrawal. And he said talking regularly to the Iranians is critical to getting to the point where it would be safe to end American involvement.

"I do not believe we are going to be able to stabilize the situation without them," Obama said.

War supporter John McCain, who will be the GOP nominee, said: "Our goal _ my goal _ is an Iraq that no longer needs American troops. And I believe we can achieve that goal, perhaps sooner than many imagine. But I also believe that to promise a withdrawal of our forces, regardless of the consequences, would constitute a failure of political and moral leadership."

Petraeus said his plan is supported by Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who has been notably public in his expressions of concern that the heavy commitment of troops in Iraq has limited U.S. military options elsewhere and has put enormous strain on troops and their families.

Petraeus made no mention of reducing soldiers' tours of duty in Iraq from the current 15 months to 12 months, but the administration is expected to announce a decision to do that this week. It would take effect this summer, coinciding with the completion of the drawdown to 15 combat brigades in Iraq.

Petraeus said the recent flare-up of violence in Basra, in Baghdad and elsewhere points up the importance of the cease-fire declared last year by anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and highlighted the role Iran allegedly plays in funding and training Shiite militias through cells the U.S. military calls "special groups."

"Unchecked, the special groups pose the greatest long-term threat to the viability of a democratic Iraq," Petraeus said.

Testifying beside Petraeus was Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, who also focused on the violence in Basra, where Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki dispatched Iraqi security forces to combat Shiite militias.

"Taken as a snapshot, with scenes of increasing violence, and masked gunmen in the streets, it is hard to see how this situation supports a narrative of progress in Iraq," Crocker said. "There is still very much to be done to bring full government control to the streets of Basra and eliminate entrenched extremist, criminal, and militia groups. When viewed with a broader lens, the Iraqi decision to combat these groups in Basra has major significance."

WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against...
WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against...
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- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 79 fans permalink
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"bring full government control to the streets of Basra and eliminate entrenched extremist, criminal, and militia groups." ???

What nonsense. These are the people that live there. The truth is that over 1000 "Iraqi troops" deserted during the Basra violence. They don't want to fight each other. They want the occupiers to leave.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 04/08/2008

Hey a lot of those guys are just pulling a paycheck, while they still are members of one of the many militias. Hey didn't we just spend billions in bribes to keep a lid on those militias? No Fair! Next time General Petroleum needs to say "pretty please"--that might make a big difference

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 04/08/2008
- browndog2 I'm a Fan of browndog2 6 fans permalink

If they don't want to fight each other, then why are they?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 04/08/2008

Well a thousand did walk off he job, are you denying that. It would be hillarious if those guys weren't getting paid in part, from my taxes

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 PM on 04/08/2008
- wmbear I'm a Fan of wmbear 24 fans permalink

SO, GENERAL FUBAR, would you say we might be able to resume troop withdrawals from Iraq in oh, say, about 100 years?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 04/08/2008
- Irons I'm a Fan of Irons 2 fans permalink

My question for General Petraeus is: Do they make you cut your hair like that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 04/08/2008
- FiddleDD2 I'm a Fan of FiddleDD2 10 fans permalink

It's the Forrest Gump special...­.the haircut matches the brain capacity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 04/08/2008
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heh

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 04/08/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 79 fans permalink
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"Shiite militias through cells the U.S. military calls special groups." ???
McCain calls them Al Qaeda.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 04/08/2008
- GarsLuber I'm a Fan of GarsLuber 12 fans permalink

Gramps McCrazy sure does know how to talk to Republicans.

He knows they are as ignorant as Bush Boy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 04/08/2008

10 Sep 2007 01:28 pm

During his opening statement, Rep. Ike Skelton referenced a poll just released today showing that Iraqis don't believe the surge is working. It seems that Skelton, like me, made the mistake of reading The Washington Post's summary of the poll, rather than the BBC writeup which highlights the much more striking fact that "nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified.­"

This is something we've seen several times in polls of Iraqi opinion, but it never seems to penetrate. It seems to me that even 10-25 percent of the population actively approving of attacks on American troops might make our mission there impossible. But when an actual majority support killing our soldiers, then how, exactly, are the soldiers supposed to help Iraq's population? It just doesn't make sense, on any level, to think that a giant military deployment can play a constructive role under these circumstances.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 04/08/2008
- laocoon I'm a Fan of laocoon 31 fans permalink

It is processed by the right in this way: if that were true it would reflect badly on what I support therefore it must be a lie. It cant be true. they want us there. Rushbo told me so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 04/08/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 79 fans permalink
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"detainee torture was a left-leaning delusion" .... INSANITY from the right

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 04/08/2008

there are some really gruesome pictures from Abu Gharib that you can still find on the web. The worst ones were never released. Mutilated bodies, smashed faces & genitals--gruesome stuff. Especially when you consider the following:
The NIE, for example, does not explain that al-Qaida in Iraq, while lethal, is a very small part of the Sunni insurgency, and that a number of Sunni insurgent groups are its sworn enemies. Nor did the NIE note how few foreign fighters are in Iraq and what a small percentage of insurgents they constitute. (A Los Angeles Times story published on July 15 reported that of the 19,000 Iraqi prisoners held by the U.S. military there, only 135 are foreign fighters, and nearly half are Saudis.) The NIE is utterly devoid of political analysis.

..........­.or 0.7% for those of you who don't do math

it was 4-10% by region, in 2005, before the media stopped reporting on the subject alltogether
**********­**********­******
So our boys must have sniffed out the terrists, and only tortured them, right you insane freedom loving red state hicks??

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 04/08/2008
- GarsLuber I'm a Fan of GarsLuber 12 fans permalink

maybe the republicans applaud the smashing of children's testicles, because the republicans have no testicles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/08/2008

Did anyone else notice how many senators cited newspaper reports as their evidence to support their claims or questions? Newspapers! This is where our elected officials get their information as to the situation in Iraq? Last time I checked newspapers were used as puppets in the build up of this war and we spend billions of dollars on "intelligence" obtained through CIA, FBI, NSA, DOD, etc, which are supposed to be our sources of intelligence (albeit not always reliable).
What's next? Citing a blogger?
Senator Sh#*@head, "According to the HuffPost, there is a substantial increase of insurgent activity in Basra...."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/08/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 79 fans permalink
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"a failure of political and moral leadership" if we withdraw ??? ... BUT it was a failure of political and moral leadership to go in in the first place!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 04/08/2008
- browndog2 I'm a Fan of browndog2 6 fans permalink

And what bearing does that have on today?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/08/2008
- GarsLuber I'm a Fan of GarsLuber 12 fans permalink

because the failure in the first place put our country in the position it is today.

Those who fail to learn from history... uh... nevermind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/08/2008
- Marlyn I'm a Fan of Marlyn 79 fans permalink
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Because it was a failure of political and moral leadership to go in in the first place, we can never "win". So the argument that we must win is futile. The reason we are there is to get their oil. BLOOD for OIL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 04/08/2008
- laocoon I'm a Fan of laocoon 31 fans permalink

It has alot of bearing on who we trust and listen to for advice about how to get out of this pickle. Someone gave you at best bad information and shallow analysis(and at worst has been intentionally leading you astray) that got you here and now you want the same someone to direct you in a solution. I would listen to those who said it was a bad idea before I would blindly follow the same someone who was sooooooooo­oooooooooo­oooooooooo­oooooooooo­oooooooooo WRONG.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 04/08/2008

It took 7 years to get into this Iraq mess and it's going to take some time to get out of it. To put an exact date of when that will be is being unrealistic really when you have no idea what will be happening from day to day. BUT here's the important thing, we have two people running for President who have pledged to get us out and one person pledging to stay. I'm going to go with the people who say they will work to get out, now that may take longer than I would like but at this point I'll be satisfied just to be moving in that direction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 04/08/2008
- CactusTom I'm a Fan of CactusTom 30 fans permalink

Like the song says, speaking of cards, “you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them.” The administration played a weak hand poorly. It is time to fold them. To keep on sending more bucks and lives down the drain just so we can say that all was not a waste is simply to pile up more waste.

And to say we can defeat terrorism is nuts. We can surely defeat the terrorist that attacked us, but to say that we can defeat the entire concept of terrorism, something that has been around forever and always will be, is to say that America expects to be at war forever. Indeed, any time you hear the phrase “war ON something—like war ON poverty, war ON drugs, or war OR terror, you can bet such open ended wars will end up being a colossal waste of national resources.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 04/08/2008

The testimony of Patreaus seems to be prepared to encourage the war (didn't the Iranian President just stroll down the street there?).

Maybe Cheney takes orders from Saudi Arabia( whose countrymen attacked us on 911; Cheney then has a little talk with Maliki; Maliki attacks Al Sadr (and gets his butt kicked); Sadr rockets the green zone; the American Forces have to bail out the Iraqui boy scouts in new uniforms, and push Iraqui forces; now Patreaus sits in congress saying see: The Iraquis need us , and denies any knowlege of what Maliki is doing. Sounds credible, huh.
(Shades of Blackwater)We are the biggest employer in Iraq They wont pay their bills while fighting over the 100 Trillion Dollar Iraqui Oil deposits. Or, it will be l00 trillion by the time we pay for it. When we pay off to their men, they dont attack us. When Maliki enters their area, they shoot rockets at the Green Zone ( Holy Hamas, who do they think they are the mafia?)

Patreaus could do the same thing he is doing in Bagdad right at home. We have several Cities with entrenched criminal militias, and a border zone that is nearly at war now. Why are our troops there?

We shouldplay SUPER HAMAS with them.When they move on us, we attack them with missles. (Who the hell taught these idiots that rocket attacks get attention and are a deterent)?

The War is over. The bitterness remains.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 04/08/2008
- faith I'm a Fan of faith 33 fans permalink

American citizens unite ! Write daily emails or letters to Warner, Reid, Pelosi, your personal representatives DEMANDING IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL OF ALL TROOPS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST ! We cannot protect our shores if our "military complex" and most of its equipment is abroad. This is ridiculous. If the congress will not demand immediate withdrawal, let's demand a draft. I assure you with a draft more people will jump on the bandwagon to get our sons and daughters to American shores.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 04/08/2008

Guys- anyone interested in politics/p­residentia­l race should definitely check out http://www.savagepolitics.com
Their articles are like nothing I have read in any of the current media outlets. It is brilliant writing plus it offers a great community in which to discuss. The editor actually takes time to answer and the political humor section is awesome!!!

Check out the article “We are the puppets”!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!­!! http://savagepolitics.com/?p=271

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 04/08/2008
- CarlsV I'm a Fan of CarlsV 12 fans permalink

Meanwhile why mclame and petraeus try and fail to convince the surge is working ... baghdad is on fire!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 04/08/2008
- wmbear I'm a Fan of wmbear 24 fans permalink

"REAL BUT FRAGILE SECURITY GAINS"??? Tell me this. If they're so fucking fragile (no argument there) how real can they be?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 04/08/2008
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