General Won't Promise More Iraq Pullouts

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ROBERT BURNS | April 8, 2008 11:05 PM EST | AP

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Gen. David Petraeus testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, April 8, 2008, before the Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on the status of the war in Iraq. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against impatient Democrats and refusing to commit to more withdrawals before President Bush leaves office in January.

Army Gen. David Petraeus painted a picture of a nation struggling to suppress violence among its own people and to move toward the political reconciliation that Bush said a year ago was the ultimate aim of his new Iraq strategy, which included sending more than 20,000 extra combat troops.

Security is getting better, and Iraq's own forces are becoming more able, Petraeus said. But he also ticked off a list of reasons for worry, including the threat of a resurgence of Sunni or Shiite extremist violence. He highlighted Iran as a special concern, for its training and equipping of extremists.

In back-to-back appearances before two Senate committees, Petraeus was told by a parade of Democrats that, after five years of war, it was past time to turn over much more of the war burden to the Iraqis. Those senators said Iraq will not attain stability until the United States makes the decision to begin withdrawing in large numbers and forces the Iraqis to settle their differences.

Republican Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio, a longtime critic of the administration's war strategy, told Petraeus: "The American people have had it up to here."

Petraeus responded, "I certainly share the frustration."

But when it came to promising or predicting a timetable for further withdrawals, Petraeus didn't budge. He said he had recommended to Bush that he complete, by the end of July, the withdrawal of the 20,000 extra troops. Beyond that, the general proposed a 45-day period of "consolidation and evaluation," to be followed by an indefinite period of assessment before he would recommend any further pullouts.

The Petraeus plan, which Bush is expected to embrace, reflects a conservative approach that leaves open the possibility that roughly 140,000 U.S. troops could remain in Iraq when the president leaves office next year.

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On Thursday Bush will make a speech about the war, now in its sixth year, and his decision about troop levels.

In exchanges with several senators, Petraeus refused to say when he thought it would be safe to resume troop reductions beyond July without risking "fragile and reversible" security gains.

Asked Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Armed Services Committee: "Could that be a month, could that be two months?"

Petraeus began to respond: "Sir, it could be less than that. It could be. ..."

Levin: "Could it be more than that?"

Petraeus: "It could be more than that. Again, it's when the conditions are met that we can make a recommendation for further reductions."

Levin: "Could it be three months?"

Petraeus: "Sir, again, at the end of the period of consolidation and evaluation. ..."

On they went in the same vein, even after a demonstrator _ "Bring them home! Bring them home!" _ interrupted the hearing and was escorted out.

When Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., started in again later, Petraeus said it would defy logic to establish a timetable before knowing what conditions will be like this summer.

"If you believe as I do _ and the commanders on the ground believe _ that the way forward on reductions should be conditions-based then it is just flat not responsible to try to put down a stake in the ground and say this is when it would be or that is when it would be," Petraeus said.

One of three senators who could be the new president by January, Hillary Rodham Clinton, said much earlier, not in a response to Petraeus, that she disagreed with those who criticized lawmakers who are calling for an orderly withdrawal.

"Rather, I think it could be fair to say that it might well be irresponsible to continue the policy that has not produced the results that have been promised time and time again at such tremendous cost to our national security and to the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States military," she said.

Sen. Barack Obama, her rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, told Petraeus that while he wants U.S. troops out of Iraq he would not initiate a precipitous withdrawal. And he said talking regularly to the Iranians is critical to getting to the point where it would be safe to end American involvement.

"I do not believe we are going to be able to stabilize the situation without them," Obama said.

War supporter John McCain, who will be the GOP nominee, said: "Our goal _ my goal _ is an Iraq that no longer needs American troops. And I believe we can achieve that goal, perhaps sooner than many imagine. But I also believe that to promise a withdrawal of our forces, regardless of the consequences, would constitute a failure of political and moral leadership."

Petraeus said his plan is supported by Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who has been notably public in his expressions of concern that the heavy commitment of troops in Iraq has limited U.S. military options elsewhere and has put enormous strain on troops and their families.

Petraeus made no mention of reducing soldiers' tours of duty in Iraq from the current 15 months to 12 months, but the administration is expected to announce a decision to do that this week. It would take effect this summer, coinciding with the completion of the drawdown to 15 combat brigades in Iraq.

Petraeus said the recent flare-up of violence in Basra, in Baghdad and elsewhere points up the importance of the cease-fire declared last year by anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and highlighted the role Iran allegedly plays in funding and training Shiite militias through cells the U.S. military calls "special groups."

"Unchecked, the special groups pose the greatest long-term threat to the viability of a democratic Iraq," Petraeus said.

Testifying beside Petraeus was Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, who also focused on the violence in Basra, where Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki dispatched Iraqi security forces to combat Shiite militias.

"Taken as a snapshot, with scenes of increasing violence, and masked gunmen in the streets, it is hard to see how this situation supports a narrative of progress in Iraq," Crocker said. "There is still very much to be done to bring full government control to the streets of Basra and eliminate entrenched extremist, criminal, and militia groups. When viewed with a broader lens, the Iraqi decision to combat these groups in Basra has major significance."

WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against...
WASHINGTON — The top U.S. commander in Iraq told Congress Tuesday that hard-won gains in the war zone are too fragile to promise any troop pullouts beyond this summer, holding his ground against...
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- jazzman I'm a Fan of jazzman 241 fans permalink
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A plan that has no end is a plan to be there forever. We conform our performance around expectations. Therefore we are now supporting a plan that expects nothing to change and nothing to happen. Americans should think long an hard about whether they are willing to accept this kind of performance since the cost of each American family stands at $16,500 right now. With a never ending plan the costs will go continue to go up.

So a vote for McCain is a vote to keep running up the tab on the American taxpayer for this war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/08/2008

Examine conditions on the ground. Gee, where have we heard that before?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 04/08/2008
- FiddleDD2 I'm a Fan of FiddleDD2 10 fans permalink

and no definition of conditions....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 04/08/2008
- wmbear I'm a Fan of wmbear 24 fans permalink

HE MEANS WALKING AROUND looking at your feet. ("Gee, that's pretty dirty ground!")

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 04/08/2008

Uh...Uh...Um...Uh...Umm...Uh

Public Speaking 101. Make every effort to minimize the use of "Uh" and "Um". It would instill a little more confidence in me as a tax paying citizen of the United States if the Commander of our forces in Iraq and the Ambassador to Iraq could speak publicly at a level that would be satisfactory for a 10th grade student in our schools. In the sample I have collected, both men average approximately 20 "Uh"s or "Um"s per minute. That is one every three seconds. Their inability to speak in a coherent fashion in the worst case makes it difficult for me to believe that they are intelligent, and in the best case makes me believe that they are just making things up on the fly. What an embarrassment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 04/08/2008
- liz I'm a Fan of liz 3 fans permalink

Speech dysfluency is a classic sign of lying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 04/08/2008
- wmbear I'm a Fan of wmbear 24 fans permalink

A DISORDER THAT AFFLICTS GEORGE BUSH in just about every word he utters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 04/08/2008

Another highlight was the confirmation of ...

"12 of 18 have been achieved.
posted 04/08/2008 at 10:32:51"

Liberal dudes, you took a vicious beat down this morning.
The donkeys know it.
Nothing worked for them.
Deal with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 04/08/2008

The only thing that took a beating this morning is your meat. Now answer the f*cking question, p*ssy.

And you're not fighting in George's "Romantic" War because ______________?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 04/08/2008
- alaintex I'm a Fan of alaintex 2 fans permalink

The post starts out vulgar, but it ends familiar enough.

Heh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/08/2008

Well, sign up! Why arent you over there helping the effort.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 04/08/2008

Just curious -as the owner of a company who is on vacation for a few days-DO YOU WORK FOR A LIVING-or are you mentally un-qualified to work anywhere-let alone be seen in public or near other human beings? And calling you a human being is kind of me. Again, please take your meds-you're ALMOST as delusional as McNUTS!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 04/08/2008
- Canaris I'm a Fan of Canaris 2 fans permalink

Which 12, exactly?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 PM on 04/08/2008

1. Gained control of their oil.
2. Paid Haliburton, Blackwater billions.
3. screwed up our international image.
4. over 34,000 of our troops killed or wounded.
5. turned our backs on vets with PTSD
6. given Georgie boy a chance to wear cod-piece and play GI Joe
7. Given Cheney first hard-on in 30 years.
8. Killed and set in motion situation where hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians die.
9. Destroyed the water systems of Iraq.
10. Destroyed the schools of Iraq.
11. Broken the spirit of a people (Iraq and US) who did not deserve this crap.
12. Let Rummy play his war games and pad his pockets.

that is 12 out of 18. You ask me, we have done enough. Let's march out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 04/08/2008

Good. 12 out of 18? Sounds like we have met enough goals. Let's march out.
Thanks for the info Salami.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 04/08/2008
- Canaris I'm a Fan of Canaris 2 fans permalink

Can anyone explain this to me? If there were 130,000 troops in Iraq pre-"surge", and when those extra troops are withdrawn there will be 140,000 troops in Iraq, where did the extra 10,000 troops come from?

These circular arguments from the cheerleaders make my head spin. "Things are better in Iraq, but we can't draw down our troops, because then things would get worse" So that means things really aren't any better, then, right? What we're doing in barely managing to keep the lid on, it sounds like to me.

What a freaking mess. Thank a lot, Dubya.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 04/08/2008
- laocoon I'm a Fan of laocoon 30 fans permalink

But it would be dangerous to replace our leaders with some who have a significantly different outlook. What we have been doing has been so successful. This was supposed to be over in 6 months, we have always been making progress and now after 5 years we need to evaluate again in .... Yet the right is insistent no mistake was made or that those who blundered are the only ones who can make it right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:28 PM on 04/08/2008
- CarlsV I'm a Fan of CarlsV 12 fans permalink

More for our little Ghost:

New CNN poll

1) "Do you favor or oppose the U.S. war in Iraq?"


Favor ....... 32%

Oppose .............. 63%

2) "All in all, do you think the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over, or not?"

Worth it ... 36%

Not worth is ........... 62%

3) "If you had to choose, would you rather see the next president keep the same number of troops in Iraq that are currently stationed there, or would you rather see the next president remove most U.S. troops in Iraq within a few months of taking office?"

Keep same number ... 33%

Remove most ........................... 63%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 04/08/2008

Whats the latest stat on Iraqis who favor attacks on Americans? Its been hovering at around 60 percent since the surge began. maybe in a few years only half of them will want to see our troops dead. It must suck defending people who really want to kill you, just because they have oil. Of course the same goes for the Saudis and most of our other so-called Arab allies

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 04/08/2008
- FiddleDD2 I'm a Fan of FiddleDD2 10 fans permalink

And if we had an honest media, they would stop stating that Americans are "divided" on the war. Any other poll that is this skewed is called "overwhelming" in favor of the side with the 60-odd percent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/08/2008
- Canaris I'm a Fan of Canaris 2 fans permalink

the 52% of the vote Dubya got in 2004 was characterized as a "mandate". So what would you call the 60+% of Americans that think the war was a mistake (besides 20/20 hindsight, that is)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:35 PM on 04/08/2008

link? date?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/08/2008

Ghost? Coward?

And you're not fighting in George's "Romantic" War because ______________?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:29 PM on 04/08/2008
- neocon43 I'm a Fan of neocon43 29 fans permalink

Answer to your observations.Hello president Mccain!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 PM on 04/08/2008
- melann830 I'm a Fan of melann830 6 fans permalink

I do not pay these polls any mind. Last I heard 80% of us so called "divided" Americans opposed the Bush administration and were displeased with the job being done. Now they decide to change the statistics? Good Grief! Most of us want out of Iraq, but how to accomplish this exit is what is really posing the dilemna.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 04/08/2008
- Moshe I'm a Fan of Moshe 215 fans permalink
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"Chairman Levin: 'What You've given . . . Is A Plan [for war] With No End"

That's the "beauty" of the "war on terror." Unlike that whole Cold War thing, which actually had a real enemy, when you are fighting an abstract concept rather than a concrete enemy, it can never really end, the MIC dream come true (a nightmare for the rest of the world though), but an unending blank check from the American taxpayers to the MIC and other war profiteers, and an unending excuse for the "Commander-in-Chief in time of War" to ignore our Constitution, the Rule of Law, international law, the rights of his own citizens, and do whatever the hell he wants to do anytime anyplace.

Everybody wins! (if you define the war profiteers and traitorous war criminals as "everybody").

See! Yet another great concept from the "war on terror": Words mean what you say they mean.

So now war is peace; recession is prosperity; occupation is liberation; and failure is success!

Great isn't it!? . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 04/08/2008
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you forgot dollars. Our money, baked only by "the full faith" of the US gov't is suffering - Greenspan is reputed to have a portfolio heavy in Euros and Yuan, but wouldn't answer a direct question about that.

If you're my age (50ish), then you should take the impending fall of the dollar seriously. Remember what happened to those "comfortable" pensions people started the '70's with, the ones that were worthless after the "stagflation" and left them in poverty by 1980?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 04/08/2008
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I meant to write "backed" not "baked", but my fingers seem to have a view of their own..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 PM on 04/08/2008

I especially like it when McCaskill tried to get Crocker to contradict McCain and Crocker politely informed her she was fos.

Let that be a lesson for her and all of you to not listen to Huffington as an extension of Think Progress.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 04/08/2008

yeah, yeah. Answer the f*cking question, d*ck.

And you're not fighting in George's "Romantic" War because ______________?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 04/08/2008
- mach I'm a Fan of mach 12 fans permalink

why arent you in canada..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:24 PM on 04/08/2008
- alaintex I'm a Fan of alaintex 2 fans permalink

Hey GrandpaMcCain, if you find something that works, stick with it huh?

Hehe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 PM on 04/08/2008

You must be watching a Road Runner cartoon-clealy NOT these hearings. NOTHING of the kind happened! Please take your meds!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 04/08/2008
- proudcalib I'm a Fan of proudcalib 3 fans permalink

This occupation is going just as Bush & Co envisioned: perpetual chaos. They have no intention of leaving until they steal all the resources Iraq has.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 04/08/2008
- CarlsV I'm a Fan of CarlsV 12 fans permalink

For our little Ghost:

New CBS poll (for one).

1) "Looking back, do you think the United States did the right thing in taking military action against Iraq, or should the U.S. have stayed out?"

Right thing ... 34%

Stayed out ....................... 62% (highest percentage yet for a CBS poll).

2) ""From what you know about the U.S. involvement in Iraq, how much longer would you be willing to have large numbers of U.S. troops remain in Iraq: less than a year, one to two years, two to five years or longer than five years?"

Less than 2 years .......... 68%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 04/08/2008

And what is the date on your poll? got a link?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 PM on 04/08/2008

And you're not fighting in George's "Romantic" War because ______________?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 04/08/2008
- CarlsV I'm a Fan of CarlsV 12 fans permalink

3/28 - 4/2

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Enjoy ... I've got several more (you're going to hate the new CQ poll) but unlike you I don't bore the huffers with endless cut and paste drivel!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 04/08/2008

Less not we fofrget "Mission Accomplished" in the flight suit. The Bush administration thought that Iraq would be a cake walk. Get in liberate Iraq...get rid of Sadaam and everything would be peachy keen. That is why they continue to flounder and change the benchmarks at every turn because they are still trying to find to figure out what works. Every one knows that they did not understand the dymanics of Iraq and so when the mayhem insued there were no plans in place to nip it in the bud. It's a shame that our young men and women have to pay for this debacle with their lives. WHAT ARE THEY FIGHTING FOR?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 PM on 04/08/2008

For Bush's pride.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 04/08/2008

Yea, but Levin was taliking to some Admiral, not General Petraeus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 04/08/2008
- Erdgeist I'm a Fan of Erdgeist 83 fans permalink
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Right now the war is a kind of Kafka baseball game without a limit to the number of innings in which each inning is a new mission. Right now, the only people in the stands are a few Republicans waving their ChiCom made American flags. Meanwhile, our team is getting tired. They have lots of injuries and want to go home. The only thing our team Manager Patreaus can say is, "Keep playing. Right now we are ahead!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 04/08/2008

Highlights were...

Sen. Wicker b-slapping Hillary
Crocker b-slapping McCaskill.
Petraeus b-slapping Bayh.

I loved every minute.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 04/08/2008
- serialcoma I'm a Fan of serialcoma 122 fans permalink
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You are a fool.. but I bet you hear that pretty often.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 04/08/2008

Must've been a nice little dream you had.

And you're not fighting in George's "Romantic" War because ______________?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 04/08/2008

If that's what you think happened,then you clearly believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East! None of this happened-All three Senators destroyed Betrayus and Croc-full-of-it!! Up is down in your world. Black is White. Please take your meds before you kill everyone you see this week!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 04/08/2008
- proudcalib I'm a Fan of proudcalib 3 fans permalink

That sums up perfectly what the necons are about: confrontation. They don't give a good God damn about our troops, our reputation or our economy. As long as Democrats get "b-slapped" all is good in the world.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 04/08/2008
- dotmafia I'm a Fan of dotmafia 45 fans permalink
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Right. And why is there no end to the plan?

Because then the war profiteers such as Halliburton and Blackwater would see an end to their immorally gained profits.

It is no surprise that this conflict was never, ever meant to be won, despite the repeated lying of the criminals in the White House.

It was only meant to be sustained for as long as possible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 04/08/2008
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