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Obama 'Small Town' Comments Draw Fire, Support

Clinton

First Posted: 04/19/08 06:12 AM ET Updated: 05/25/11 01:30 PM ET

** UPDATED APRIL 12 WITH RESPONSES FROM MCCAIN, OBAMA, PUNDITS, AND VIDEO OF FUNDRAISER **

Sen. Hillary Clinton drew sharp disagreements with Sen. Barack Obama late Friday for comments he made suggesting that job loss and economic woes had compelled people in Pennsylvania to bitterness, "guns or religion or antipathy, or anti-immigrant sentiment."

"Pennsylvanians," she declared, "don't need a president who looks down on them. They need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families."

The line was cutting and drew applause from the crowd. And it demonstrates that the Clinton campaign feels it has a political winner if not an issue that could dominate the news cycle for several days.

"If we start acting like Americans," Clinton continued, "and role up our sleeves we can make sure that America's best years are ahead of us."

Clinton's reaction came just hours after the Huffington Post first reported on Obama's statement on small-town resentment. She was beaten to the punch by Sen. John McCain, who chastised Obama not for lacking an optimistic tone, but for deploying "liberal elitist" rhetoric.

Obama's remarks, which were first reported by Mayhill Fowler at Huffington Post's Off The Bus, were as follows:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.


And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Clinton addressed the Obama statement without prompting. Telling the crowd that, "it is being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter," the New Yorker immediately sought to draw a contrast.

"Well, that is not my experience," she said. "As I travel around Pennsylvania I meet people who are resilient, optimistic, positive, who are rolling up their sleeves. They are working hard every day for a better future for themselves and their children"

UPDATE: McCain spokesman Steve Schmidt had this to say on Obama's remarks:

"It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," Schmidt said. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."

UPDATE: The Obama camp has released the following statement, responding to John McCain, via spokesman Tommy Vietor:

"Senator Obama has said many times in this campaign that Americans are understandably upset with their leaders in Washington for saying anything to win elections while failing to stand up to the special interests and fight for an economic agenda that will bring jobs and opportunity back to struggling communities. And if John McCain wants a debate about who's out of touch with the American people, we can start by talking about the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans that he once said offended his conscience but now wants to make permanent."

Later, Obama responded in person at an event in Indiana:

"When I go around and I talk to people there is frustration and there is anger and there is bitterness. And what's worse is when people are expressing their anger then politicians try to say what are you angry about? This just happened - I want to make a point here today.


"I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser and somebody asked how're you going to get votes in Pennsylvania? What's going on there? We hear that's its hard for some working class people to get behind you're campaign. I said, "Well look, they're frustrated and for good reason. Because for the last 25 years they've seen jobs shipped overseas. They've seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs. They have lost their pensions. They have lost their healthcare.

"And for 25, 30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we're going to make your community better. We're going to make it right and nothing ever happens. And of course they're bitter. Of course they're frustrated. You would be too. In fact many of you are. Because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. The same thing happened across the border in Decatur. The same thing has happened all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you. Nobody is thinking about you. And so people end up- they don't vote on economic issues because they don't expect anybody's going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms. They vote on issues like gay marriage. And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they don't believe they can count on Washington. So I made this statement-- so, here's what rich. Senator Clinton says 'No, I don't think that people are bitter in Pennsylvania. You know, I think Barack's being condescending.' John McCain says, 'Oh, how could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? You know, he's obviously out of touch with people.'

"Out of touch? Out of touch? I mean, John McCain--it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he's saying I'm out of touch? Senator Clinton voted for a credit card-sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I'm out of touch? No, I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on. I know what's going on in Pennsylvania. I know what's going on in Indiana. I know what's going on in Illinois. People are fed-up. They're angry and they're frustrated and they're bitter. And they want to see a change in Washington and that's why I'm running for President of the United States of America."

UPDATE: The Clinton campaign emailed around harsh comments from two Republican pundits:

Grover Norquist: 'That sentence will lose him the election... He just announced to rural America: I don't like you.' "Grover Norquist, the anti-tax activist who leads an influential weekly meeting of conservatives, went as far as to argue that Obama's line would cost Democrats the White House. 'That sentence will lose him the election,' Norquist told ABC News. 'He just announced to rural America: 'I don't like you.'" [abcnews.com, 4/11/08]


Republican strategist Ed Rollins: Q: "On a scale of 1 to 10 how damaging is this?" Rollins: 'Ten.' [CNN, Lou Dobbs, 4/11/08]

The Obama campaign, meanwhile, emailed out a CNN segment where Gloria Borger, Jack Cafferty, and Jeffrey Toobin all defended the comments:

BLITZER: All right, Gloria, he's already being hammered by Hillary Clinton and John McCain for that matter for supposedly being an elitist and speaking ill of the people of Pennsylvania by suggesting that the economic problems there are causing them to become bitter and buying guns and becoming xenophobic and all of that. What do you think? Is this a real issue out there?


GLORIA BORGER: Well, Hillary Clinton said today, you know, I don't see bitter people out there, I see struggling people or whatever it is, but she said the people aren't bitter. But I think the people are angry – and maybe Obama's terminology was in artful but I think he's expressing a sentiment of mad-as-hell-voters, not going to take it anymore, that we've seen throughout this election. And that's why perhaps voters are saying over and over again that they want to change. So I think Hillary Clinton is trying to make him into the elite candidate but he's talking about people being angry.

BLITZER: All right, and Hillary Clinton responded to the Obama comments this way; Jeff. Let me play her little sound bite.

HRC: It's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter. Well, that's not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania, I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves. They're working hard every day for a better future for themselves and their children. Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff. What do you think?

JEFF TOOBIN: I think that is so ridiculous. I mean that is not at all what Barack Obama said. I just think this is an example of how a campaign between the two of them can be purely destructive. And not elevate either candidate. I mean, Hillary Clinton is clearly distorting what Obama said. And by the way, what Obama said is factually accurate. It's been true throughout history that people who have economic problems lash out against various others. I mean, I just think it is an embarrassing for the Clinton campaign to hang on this as if it's some sort of gaffe by Obama.

BLITZER: It's not just the Clinton campaign, Jack it's also the McCain campaign. They issued a statement saying it's a remarkable statement and extremely revealing it shows an elitism towards and condescension towards hard working Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking. It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans.

JACK CAFFERTY: Really? And this is from John McCain?

BLITZER: No, this is from Steve Schmidt a senior adviser for John McCain.

CAFFERTY: Look, Jeff's right. They call it the rust belt for a reason. The great jobs and the economic prosperity left that part of the country two or three decades ago. The people are frustrated. The people have no economic opportunity. What happens to folks like that in the Middle East, you ask? Well, take a look. They go to places like al Qaeda training camps. I mean, there's nothing new here. And what Barack Obama was suggesting is not that the people of Pennsylvania are to blame for any of it. It's that the jerks in Washington, D.C., as represented by the ten years of the Bushes and the Clintons and the McCains who have lied to and misled these people for all of this time while they shipped the jobs over seas and signed phony trade deals like NAFTA are to blame for the deteriorating economic conditions among America's middle class. I mean, I'm a college dropout and I can read the damn thing and figure it out.

BORGER: You know, in this case the Hillary Clinton campaign and the John McCain campaign have the same goal and that is to portray Obama as this sort of (inaudible) elitist who doesn't understand the real working class people or independent voters. And so they're both on the same side on this one and it's obvious why.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Jeff.

TOOBIN: I just think it's remarkable that Barack Obama, this guy who grew up in a single-family household with no money, who lived in Indonesia, who came from very modest upbringings, somehow he's the elitist? That's really a pretty extraordinary sort of contortion of his background. I mean.

BORGER: It's that Harvard, Yale thing.

CAFFERTY: He did not make $109 million in the last eight year did he?

BORGER: Right.

UPDATE: The Politico's Ben Smith posted this video taken from inside the San Francisco fundraiser:

FOLLOW HUFFPOST POLITICS

** UPDATED APRIL 12 WITH RESPONSES FROM MCCAIN, OBAMA, PUNDITS, AND VIDEO OF FUNDRAISER ** Sen. Hillary Clinton drew sharp disagreements with Sen. Barack Obama late Friday for comments he made sugges...
** UPDATED APRIL 12 WITH RESPONSES FROM MCCAIN, OBAMA, PUNDITS, AND VIDEO OF FUNDRAISER ** Sen. Hillary Clinton drew sharp disagreements with Sen. Barack Obama late Friday for comments he made sugges...
 
 
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06:01 PM on 04/15/2008
Hillary Clinton in "Storm Over Tuzla" (video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgfWVfmilOM

Brought to you by Crown Royal. Always delightful - especially with a beer chaser.

Crown Royal - where the elite meet to greet the man on the street.
04:46 PM on 04/15/2008
The only thing certain about 75% is that's the number that hates Hillary with a passion.

Unforunately, the choice is either Obama or Hillary for this election. I'd rather have someone new who has the propensity to speak in relative truths versus a congenital liar like the Clintons. All politians lie but Obama at least gives it style and from time to time, own up to his mistakes. Clintons. It's always the media and vast right-wing conspiricy. I'd like to know when was the last time she fired a gun and when did she go to church last?

David Geffen said it best last year: he's amazed in how Clintons lie with ease and without blinking.
05:05 PM on 04/15/2008
Barack has hit back with a new amazing ad. Watch

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_Represent.html
03:08 PM on 04/15/2008
http://www.gallup.com/poll/106537/Gallup-Daily-Obama-51-Clinton-40.aspx
Three days' worth of polling after the news broke that Sen. Barack Obama said some small-town voters are "bitter," he has edged out to his largest lead yet in Gallup's daily national tracking survey.

Gallup says Obama leads Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton 51%-40% according to its Saturday-Monday poll of 1,312 Democrats and voters who "lean" Democratic. Yesterday, Obama lead 50%-40% (matching what had been his largest lead until today). The margin of error: +/- 3 percentage points.

The news about what Obama said broke Friday afternoon.
02:55 PM on 04/15/2008
Watch Hillary's non-answer, answers... In a few minutes flat!

You'll love this. It will bring back memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggO5yY7RAo
01:12 PM on 04/15/2008
NEW PENNSYLVANIA POLL: CLINTON ONLY LEADS BY 6. For all of the media hype in recent days, there has been no change in the polls in a new poll released today. Check out the poll below:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1168&loc=interstitialskip


VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA AND LETS GET A DEMOCRAT WIN IN NOVEMBER!
11:27 AM on 04/15/2008
"I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser and somebody asked how're you going to get votes in Pennsylvania? What's going on there? We hear that's its hard for some working class people to get behind you're campaign. I said,

========HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID OBAMA....they are gunnuts, relisious freaks, bigots and xenophobes, much to the enjoyment of your san fran crowd.

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM....YOU MAKE IT WORSE....HE SHOULD JUST APOLOGIZE

And by the way the HACKS Toobin, Cafferty and Borger are M O R O N S.....Bill Clinton made millions....THAT IS NOT ELITISM...ELITISM IS AN ATTITUDE DISPLAYED BY OBAMA AND HIS SUPPORTERS.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
peskyliberal
From my Blue Heaven
03:31 PM on 04/15/2008
Question: Do elitists have student loans to pay back?

Just wondering.
03:39 PM on 04/15/2008
Elitist. That's a good thing, right?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
2sleepy
10:45 AM on 04/15/2008
Yesterday I called my sister in law who lives in a very small town in rural Missouri, and we talked about Obama's comments, I asked if she was offended by his comments, she said 'nope, it was the truth, we are bitter- who wouldn't be?' I asked if the 'guns and religion' comment bothered her, she said - "no, he spoke the truth, and we will continue to vote for politicians who promise to protect our right to keep our faith and our guns, it's about all we have left here"
12:06 PM on 04/15/2008
I sure wish more people would stand up & say this. I'm from Texas & heck yes, I'm bitter about the way this country has been run. My friends & family are in agreement. Hillary's camp thinks that by repeating this over & over again, Obama will lose votes. In no way is Obama an elitist. In fact, he's showing that he understands us much more that Hillary or McCain. They are both filthy rich. I'm aware the money in McCain's family is from his wife. If anybody's elite, it's the 2 of them. Frankly, they should be running on the same ticket. And about the clinging to religion & guns part - yes, we do & we will!
12:56 AM on 04/15/2008
Hillary was asked about her relationship to Paul and she brushed it off (as she always does)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/15/01445/7327/458/495848

it's just incredible that this woman thinks she is above it all... talk about an elitist. there's a video of her walking away.
12:21 AM on 04/15/2008
HRC will fabricate, twist and distort the truth, anything to win, and is not concerned for the American public, only for herself, and some of her followers fall for it. The media is really good for putting an even greater spin to it just to sell the news. So let's hear the real truth. They do not have reporters like Walter Cronkite, that is real journalism.
11:20 AM on 04/15/2008
(think the media NEEDS the controversy, so willing to help promote one even if not valid. ALso find appalling, that much as like when the SwiftBoated ads were run continuously FREE OF CHARGE by MSM , sort of free advertising for many of these special interest groups are NOT well funded enough to cover the national market, the MSM GIVE them a free ride/free continuous , repeated exposure. Yeah online is more adapatable to repeating and psreading but there are even in these modern days many who do NOT catch the waves online and do but take the quick OUT OF CONTEXT "sound bytes" and "assume" to have some validity when even NOT the true essence and even when supposedly JUST being shown so that all can be aware. Presently, we ALL , coast to coast are getting bombarded with Hillarys latest PA ad, where folks are disparaging Obama and declaring HRC "get it" from THEIR perspectivity !!! ALL FREE and good for a cash strapped Clinton campaign !!! RARE are the OBAMA ads played repeatedly for national review...but that is way ti goes, repeatedly and one can but "take", MSM does still support HRC over Obama, no need to even mention the free passes given McC and his fipfloppings and more..that too glares as being too absent in media coverage for the masses !!!
11:14 PM on 04/14/2008
“Bitter?” Them’s fightin’ words! Why should the heart of America be bitter? We got a can-do attitude. When our politicians sell us to the highest corporate bidders, take away bankruptcy protection, and bail out Wall Street with our tax dollars, do we complain? No, because we’re patriotic. When we are snookered into a ruinous war, attack not the terrorists but Iraq so that the oil companies, Halliburton, and the weapons guys can profiteer - we soldier on to the mall and buy up a storm. Nothing stops our indomitable spirit. On my tombstone it will read, “Spent as much as I could.” May God take me to heaven and take the presidency away from that elitist truth teller guy, Obama.

BTW take a look at this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7140463096424255227&q=captain+karma&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
08:01 PM on 04/14/2008
Barack Obamaaa! President of Mississippi!
11:12 PM on 04/14/2008
“Bitter?” Them’s fightin’ words! Why should the heart of America be bitter? We got a can-do attitude. When our politicians sell us to the highest corporate bidders, take away bankruptcy protection, and bail out Wall Street with our tax dollars, do we complain? No, because we’re patriotic. When we are snookered into a ruinous war, attack not the terrorists but Iraq so that the oil companies, Halliburton, and the weapons guys can profiteer - we soldier on to the mall and buy up a storm. Nothing stops our indomitable spirit. On my tombstone it will read, “Spent as much as I could.” May God take me to heaven and take the presidency away from that elitist truth teller guy, Obama.

BTW take a look at this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7140463096424255227&q=captain+karma&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
07:33 PM on 04/14/2008
Hey Chris Matthews, of "Hardball":
How about we chip in for some speech lessons so you can learn to say "Barack Obama" you spitting, sputtering moron?
And, how about we stipulate that you are from Pennsylvania so we can stop hearing you say it? I mean, big freaking deal.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
irishgawdess
07:54 AM on 04/15/2008
Matthews was on Colbert Monday night where Stephen let loose that Matthews is going to run for PA's US Senate seat in 2010. What a maroon Matthews is - Stephen offered him the Colbert bump if Matthews would announce it right then and there. You should have seen the look on Matthews face... stone cold (or fear?). He wouldn't do it.

Chump change...

The effectiveness of the "Colbert Bump" has been statistically proven, BTW.
07:26 PM on 04/14/2008
By the way, does any one know what the Clintons' taxable income was in 1991 or 1992 when Bill was running for president? I'm asking because they're acting like Hillary is elitist just because she and Bill have made millions since they left the White House. But when she was Obama's current age she was walking around in that dorky headband that the press made fun of all the time. (I'd actually like to see her campaign post one of those pictures and say "Can you really call this woman elitist?") Now she has an additional fifteen years on him age-wise -- along with fifteen more years of experience -- half of which was in the white house. And what was Obama doing in 1991 and 1992? He was just getting out of law school in 1991. And he got married in 1992. I'm not exactly sure what he was doing jobwise. He heading a voter registration drive and working on a memoir of his father but I'm not sure if those were jobs. He started working at a law firm in 1993.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
UrbanRevolution
Rabble Rouser & Instigator of theurbanrevolution.c
10:15 PM on 04/14/2008
he worked at a law firm as a civil rights attorney representing a lot of non-profs -- not top dollar. I mean he and michelle just paid off their student loans. Plus when he got out of Columbia U. after a short stint at an invest.. banking firm he was making somewhere in the $20s as a community organizer driving around a 10 year old toyota tercell if i remember the story correctly.
11:37 PM on 04/14/2008
Yeah. How does some of that qualify him to be president? His resume is weird. He lacked direction. He kept changing jobs every year or two. A good decision maker usually does sufficient research and analysis so that they can stick by their decisions once they make them. He kept switching around. He graduated from Columbia in 1983. Then works two different jobs over a two year period: first an international business advisory firm and then public interest group. Then the third year he decides to work as a community organizer and stays there for a couple of years. But he decides to leave that because he can do more for more people by becoming an attorney and influencing legislation rather than by working at the grassroots level. So he goes to Harvard Law School and graduates in 1991. But then he doesn't even become an attorney immediately. Instead he heads up a voter registration drive. He finally goes to work for a law firm in 1993. But he only does that for a couple of years before running for the Illinois Senate (and working for the firm during summers off). He actually stuck with that for eight years before running for the U.S. Senate in 2003. But then he didn't even complete his first term before deciding to run for president. You don't get much done for people when you keep running away. Most employers don't hire someone who jumps around and is inconsistent in their choices.
11:38 PM on 04/14/2008
By the way, the student loan thing is a ruse. Those usually have low interest rates. And anybody with any amount of financial savvy knows that it's often a good idea to pay very low interest debt as slowly as possible (take advantage of rate arbitrage). It's not like they couldn't afford to pay them earlier. They live in a $1.6 million dollar house.
07:05 PM on 04/14/2008
Doesn't it hurt Obama's long term chances when he makes it look like he's on one side of things and Clinton and McCain are both on the other? Remember that he only has about 25% voting for him right now. (Very, very roughly speaking. Just based on very rough estimate that McCain currently has about 50% of the population as the prospective Republican nominee. And Clinton and Obama are splitting the other Democratic half with around 25% each. Him a little more and her a little less. As I said very rough calcutions.) Obama and Clinton are each assuming that they'll gain each other's voters when the party reconciles. So one of them will have about 50% going into the general election. But if he continues with this strategy that makes it look like it's him versus Clinton and McCain, he might be isolating 75% of the voters. Isn't that a risky strategy in the long run?
11:12 PM on 04/14/2008
well said. We are witnessing the angry arrogance of Obama. He is NOT good under pressure. He is a newbie. People just need to get over it, he is not what he pretended to be and now he's busted. periodl.
02:02 PM on 04/15/2008
Exactly. Since he has little if any relevant experience, his candidacy was premised on the idea that he was capable of bringing everyone together. Does he think that's still believable.
05:28 PM on 04/15/2008
You're kidding right? How do you suspend belief to actually swallow that? The lengths that some will go to trick themselves into believing this stuff is amazing! You too questioning61. Obama doesn't get rattled and has shown he can handle any manufactured contoversy thrown his way whiul eHillary gets booed for looking so pathetic under pressure and y'all still believe it! Despite your own eyes and ears you still believe this stuff! Amazing.
05:36 PM on 04/15/2008
This logic of yours is truly out there. No, this makes Hillary look more like a Republican. Once agaiin, Obama is merely pointing out the obvious and a Clinton supporter stands on their head to re-intepret it. The people ripping the party apart are the ones who can't conced that Hillary is not going to be the nominee. If she goes the Super Delegate route it will cause more trouble to the party than we could overcome. Let it go, get over it. She can't be the nominee, she doesn't stand a chance. And all she is doing is alientaing more Democrats who would have been happy to vote for her had she won, like me, an Edwards supporter who didn't give a rat's behind who won once he dropped out. Now, I can't stand the woman.
01:18 AM on 04/17/2008
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going to the convention without a presumptive nominee. Brokered conventions used to be common. The later primaries all become irrelevant when the nominee is chosen the first couple weeks. That's why Michigan and Florida wanted to move up theirs. But that wasn't allowed. Or do you want to have all the primaries in January? It would completely change the process The candidates and voters wouldn't get to know each other. There would probably just be a few debates.

What's different this year is that one of the parties has a presumptive nominee; one doesn't. McCain was expected to disappear from the news. But after Obama pulled ahead, he started to ignore Hillary and campaign against McCain. Seemed smart. Made him appear to be the presumptive nominee. But its backfiring. Partly because it was somewhat risky anyway. But also because he didn't stick with it. His campaign started to pick at Hillary and she picked back. But he was also picking at McCain and had him picking back.

The race is close. He can't afford to alienate voters. If he is ultimately the candidate, he can't afford to lose 5% to the "Nader factor" and "other" in the general election. I stand by my comment that it's bad strategy for him in the long run.
06:51 PM on 04/14/2008
Two comments about Obama's remarks. First, he was speaking to presemably well heeled contributors and he was trying to create a mindset for understanding what drives far less affluent folks. Second, bad economic times set the stage for the politics of division and that kind of politics is primarily a republican game. Issues of race, gender, choice, guns etc. are introduced to keep Americans divided and to keep the focus off the economy, educational opportunity, health care, the war and so on. So the frustration, anger and even bitterness is a reflection on the politics of division. The issues remain and they have been stated.
02:19 PM on 04/15/2008
Are you for or against him? Do you realize you're essentially describing him as an elitist? An egalitarian would understand that a well heeled person can be bitter and a less affluent person can be perfectly content. It makes him sound elitist when you say he has to explain to his well healed contributors that bitterness causes people to cling to religion, anti-immigration, etc. Makes it sound like they are all so removed from all that and don't understand those things. But that it is a part of everyday life for the far less affluent. Are you kidding? People with money don't have guns? None of them are anti-immigration? None of them are bigots? None of them are against trade agreements? I haven't been concerned about elitism per se. But you could convince me otherwise.