Administration Set To Use New Spy Program In U.S.

Washington Post:

The Bush administration said yesterday that it plans to start using the nation's most advanced spy technology for domestic purposes soon, rebuffing challenges by House Democrats over the idea's legal authority.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said his department will activate his department's new domestic satellite surveillance office in stages, starting as soon as possible with traditional scientific and homeland security activities -- such as tracking hurricane damage, monitoring climate change and creating terrain maps.

Read the whole story: Washington Post

Comments

[wcfar]

It's happening already and it's all outside the protections of the fourth amendment or any protections afforded us by the Constitution or the will of the Congress to fight for us. Honestly, just because the technology exists doesn't mean it is out of reach of the law. I must say that depending on your congressmen or senators with some exceptions will not stop this new intrusion. The only organization capable of fighting off this kind of illicit activity is the ACLU. In addition, I'd like to know if Chertoff is protected from violations of our civil rights with this technology. Finally, I do think that officials of this government have gone much too far in violating the letter and the spirit of the law and there will be serious repercussions.

[MajorKong]

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison

[RodgerLodger]

Please post here if you've been spyed on by the government or if somebody you know personally has been. Thank you and good night.

[plainsman]

My father made a call home while he was on a business trip in France.

[ChangeNow]

You miss the point.

[MajorKong]

How would you know? If they were halfway good at it you'd have no indication. Did you suppose they'd have some trenchcoat-wearing guy standing across the street from your house, watching it with binoculars?

[AmbivalentGuy]

Sometimes you know,
sometimes you figure it out,
sometimes you don't know.

If you have a family member with a security clearance,
then you've been "looked at", at the least.

[Durango]

I was subjected to a full blown security background check by the FBI including the only fingerprinting I have ever had. Every place I ever lived, every job I had had, going back to 1934.

I was working for the Forest Service running chainsaws for $3/hour. Were they afraid I was selling chain saw secrets to the Russians?

[legalgirl]

Well, there you are, this story has been shrunk to a two-line headline three-quarters down the page . . . bye-bye civil liberties . . . oooh, wait Campbell Brown & Wolf Blitzer are on the TV talking about had SAD it is that the two "democrat" candidates seem to be tearing each other up . . . [BIG SIGH]

Is it too late to get a passport? I would probably be alright in "repressive" Holland.

[browndog2]

A lot of us got scrubbed off this thread yesterday,comments taken down post-posting. I begged to be let out of the doghouse after mentioning a certain search engine that rhymes with bugle, but to no avail. This is a test posting.

[ChangeNow]

Yup - now we've lost the picture. This story, the most important on Huffpo, will be off the page before the end of the day.

[SupremeIdiot]

A few RSU quotes and the stupidity behind them.


"Conservatives have been fighting like mad to limit governments intrusion into our businesses, our lives, and society as a whole."
I'd believe that except this thread talks about a new government intrusion. Conservatives want less government intrusion except in your bedroom and corporate bailouts.

"Freedom isn't free but many are giving theirs up as if it were."
Especially conservatives who reliquish civilrights to feel safe and rail against organizations like the ACLU, which exists solely to defend civil liberties.

"It is Democrats who have sought to make people lazy, immoral, and stupid. Democrats and liberals fully control our educational system and despite our throwing more and more money at this failing system, they continue to crank out students that can't even read."
All that personal responsibility talk goes out the window when it comes to liberals. Then it's our fault. He's never seen conservative schoolboards trying to blot out evolution either.

"You are only a victim if you allow yourself to become one. I blame no one but myself for my mistakes in life but then I'm an exception to the rule."
Great copy from a white guy who didn't start school in a run down building with poor teachers putting him behind when it comes to college. If someone passes you over for a job or promotion because of their prejudice, that's YOUR problem for being a victim. Or for not being born white.

[cruisepuppy7452a]

If you think big brothere isn't spying on you now, you need a wake up call. Hello, microchips in the new drivers liscences? Chips in our tv and computers? Yo, this isn't fiction, this is fact. GPS trackers in cars? Guys, Big brother has been spying on us for some time. Its old news. Our mail, opened at the copyright office and destroyed, just because. Please. Already they are tracking fido. Some would say, so what? Let me tell you what this is about, global 999, an international tribunal out of Belgium, has begun its work with Britain and the US to spy on the public. People in the CIA will deny it, say its hogwash, no, its fact. Its all well and good to want to know what the enemy is up to. But the general public is not the enemy. Its paranoia taken to the extreme, a fear chip that Bush and co are going to use, are using to try to win votes from fear. The enemy is all over, and to hear them tell it, they are in our bedrooms, bathrooms, up our behinds and in our brains. Please, enough fear tactics, just tell the damn truth for once.

[JustifiablyParanoid]

Ah, but to those in power, the general public IS the enemy....it's just too bad the general public doesn't understand the power it has within its grasp.

[plainsman]

No kidding. I've heard that these chips will be made as small as a dot on this i, and will be on all clothing and merchandise. Walk through a detector linked up to the grid and wallah, they even know what your wearing, or if your drinking a coke or pepsi. I can imagine an APB in the future sounding something like this: The subject is walking up third street toward 6th, wearing gray dockers and a white polo shirt, black sketchers shoes, sipping on a Starbucks Venti No-Fat Sugar-free Vanilla Latte...oh, and the subject is male with brown hair.

[wndrwrthg]

Add to that the increase of the video survailance, and the RFD capability, it all adds up to, WE ARE SCREWED!

[Not Blind]

Since February, 2001 (not after 9/11), this administration began its illegal warrantless wiretapping and evesdropping on citizens. Our phone calls, emails, websurfing are all sent through AT&T or Verizon lines to the NSA. Our movie rentals, books we borrow from libraries or buy are also listed and passed along to Big Brother. Also, our financial records (credit card - ATM purchases, banking, tax records and credit reports) are being compiled, as are our medical records (prescription purchases, doctor visits, lab test results). Cars with GPS, cell phones and other devises are being monitored as well.
There's nothing any one can say or do without Big Brother knowing about it. So, now they'll use satillites to track us in our homes. This is but a logical progression of the erosion of our rights and privacy in the name of making us safer. The Stazi, Nazis, Savak, and KGB have arrived here. The administration has done more to help Bin-Laden and Al-Qaeda by despising our freedoms and way of life, as well as our economy.
Consider that any one in the U.S. (citizen, resident, or even a traveler) can be picked up, sent to an off-shore prison under the Rendition Program, tortured, raped, murdered unless and until they give a "confession," which is then used against them at trial. This threat is far more real and dangerous, as our government has become more a terrorist organization than any other in the world.

[sunzen]

Its been going on for decades...it did not start with this administration...

[sunzen]

If you want to learn about the truth take a look at these links and open your eyes, mind, and incorporate this info into your thought process about this issue...things are happening that we only thought were possible in the movies... enjoy

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/2005_12.html

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/pro-freedom.co.uk/echelon_2.html

http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarchive/2006/pa110806.html

http://govtsecurity.com/news/Purdue-Homeland-Security-Training-Center/

[tumblewind]

After all he (Bush) can't let all of us terrorist sympathizers run free! He has got to keep a watchful eye on all of us to make certain we toe the Republican party line! He has got to watch his back constantly for fear someone will sneak up behind him. He has enemies lurking behind every bush in this country! How pathetic and sad this man is.

[ChangeNow]

Another tragedy is that this story has died here on Huffpo, beaten out by Hillary doing shots. I bet it will be at the bottom of the page tomorrow, and gone the next day. If something like this can't get people fired up here, what are the main stream folks going to think.. Are we all that numb to loss of privacy?

Sad.

[ashabot]

Exactly. This is NEWS. This is vital information. If I want b*llshit, I can go to FOX or pick up a National Inquirer. Huffpo might as well be sub-titled, The Tattler.

[cruisepuppy7452a]

Ther are ways around shutting this story down. Its called take it to the air waves, take it to the major news media, be seen and heard. There is power in numbers. They can't shut all of us up. I for one am not going to go down without a fight. Off the Bus is seen world wide. Hello. Its how the truth gets exposed, and nothing they can do about it. Folks, talk to your reporters at Huff Po, take it to the off the Bus wires. Trust me, it can't be silenced for long.

[billu]

One long standing legal maxim has been if it's in plain view then the cops don't need a warrant. A satellite can't view into your house and can't see anything that a police chopper can't so what is the big deal?

[ChangeNow]

Using that logic (true as stated), imagine a policeman standing on the street staring at your house 24/7. Always there. That would be illegal without probable cause, wouldn't it? Imagine knowing that nothing you do outside, no matter how high your fence or hedge is, can avoid being watched and photographed. Do you really not mind being surveiled at your own home? What if, rather than satellites, they just put a camera on a pole in your back yard? Same thing, really. Doesn't it bug you just a little to know that all of your internet surfing, emails, card purchases, highway pass records, vehicle movement, cell phone, land line and faxes are all monitored all of the time?
You may say that you have nothing to hide. Maybe true, but you do have something to protect: your privacy and the privacy of every American. Every time you willingly give up your freedom, you give up mine and my children’s as well. We deserve better.

[ashabot]

Well said. What to speak of listening devices that can hear inside the house. With surveillance at like this, our homes are reduced to cages and us prisoners, guilty simply because can be dectected.

[doug108]

The "if you have nothing to hide, so you have nothing to worry about" argument is a red herring. That's not the way searches are done in this country at all. You can't be stopped by a cop and be forced to submit to a search of your car on the cop's whim. The cop can't go looking through your stuff and simply tell you that if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about. Imagine having to put up with that in terms of searches of your house.

The plain fact of the matter is that there is a Fourth Amendment in this country that requires probable cause before a search can be executed. It requires warrants and third party oversight. Even if you have nothing to hide, the cops still have to produce a damned good reason to search your stuff BEFORE they start searching. Anyone who tries to twist that around doesn't stand for one of the fundamental principles of our country. Period.

[billu]

It's called surveilance, requires no warrant and is legal at all levels. You need a warrant to go inside the home or to place a wire tap. If a cop sees a marajuanna plant growing in your window though he has probable cause and can enter without a warrant because it is visible from the street. He can fly over your house to look in your backyard and get evidence that way too. None of that is illegal. Hell if you wanted and I was stupid enough to give out my address you can see my patio from google earth. This is not an invasion of privacy as a satellite cannot see into my house any more than a cop on the street can.

[doug108]

We don't know the capabilities of this technology, and people in the know apparently want to make sure there are safeguards in place to ensure privacy and other rights. This stuff, at least judging from that, is capable of much more than looking into your backyard.

[billu]

Sorry it can't see through walls. Forget what you see on TV. If the staellites were that good they wouldn't have booched the intelligence on the WMDs.

[cruisepuppy7452a]

Got news for ya, they are using satellites as they can indeed see what you assume is private. Years ago, there was a movie with Gene Hackman that danced around this issue. When they showed just what can be seen, heard from above, wasn't special effects. They are so high tech now, so sensitive, they pick up the most microscopic of images, hone in on them, and can track it back to you. There are ways to screw with them. Good thing I am on the side of the US. What I know about this technology, would be bad news if it fell into the wrong hands. My friends who use to work for the defense dept, confirmed this has been going on for some time. Bush and co, abused it, going after the entire public. Prior to this, it was only going after known terror suspects. Here is a tip, don't want your cell to be tapped, turn it off when not in use. Can't tap what is turned off. Ditto for the TV, radio, ect.

[AbstractImp]

I do not think that this domestic spy program should be instituted during an election year.

I do not trust the animals in this "administration" - the disgusting republicans are sure to use it to spy on their opponents. Their sole objective is to hold onto power, elect an ally who will perpetuate the crimes and pardon the criminals.

Why are the legislators so intent on giving away our rights to these monsters? Do they hold our rights so as to give them away? Are the democrats in power selling our rights for their security? Hello, Liebermann, Feinstein, Schumer, Rockefeller ..... Do you get immunity too? Or just the telecoms, Cheney, and Rove?

This is a real sad period for American history. We are not the same people who won world war II, and we are not the same people whop brought down Nixon and ended the Vietnam fiasco.

300 million American sheep - and not one patriot....

[StinkyPete]

Satellites buzzing through the endless night
Exclusive to moonshots and world title fights
Jesus Christ, imagine what it must be earning
Who is the strongest, who is the best
Who holds the aces, the east or the west
This is the crap that our children our learning

(Waters, 1987). RADIO K.A.O.S.

[legalgirl]

Just wondering, why are there 118 unposted comments?

[StinkyPete]

Remember Lucille Ball in that classic candy factory episode.
Sometimes when HuffPo is overloaded - they just delete all pending posts.

[AmbivalentGuy]

I don't think there was anyone at the factory yesterday.
But, I checked my profile and they seem to have posted all of
my bitching.

[AmbivalentGuy]

How the hell did you get posted????
I have about five pending - none break the rules,
including one asking the same question.
All 5 to 10 hrs stale - one suggested we take this to a postcard discussion.
I've pub crawled through about 5 places and had a wonderful camerones al mojo de ajo for dinner,
meanwhile 41 comments processed.

It's the BANNER story on the HOME page and they are processing comments at about 12 an hour. I've been keeping track.

My throwaway Led Zep pun started a lively exchange, but nothing else.
If this post doesn't appear, I'll know and I'll be gone form HuffPo.

[legalgirl]

AmbivalentGuy, you got posted! Me, too! It only took overnight! Was there a rough shift change on HuffPo? I see that they're is advertising for a comment editor in NY.

[plainsman]

Who knows? My guess if I had to make one, would be that some posters consistently make valid points that don't require moderation and some posters consistently fail to make a point or go off-topic and need to be moderated before hand. Again, who knows? As long as you're furthering the conversation, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[AmbivalentGuy]

Your passport has a microchip with "info" on it.
Mine doesn't - not till 2016.

Is that relevant in the conversation?

I'm already having a conversation on another thread about the inactivity of this one!