Pa. Voters Divided Over Obama Remarks

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MARK SCOLFORO | April 14, 2008 11:08 PM EST | AP

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Democratic president hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., center, is seen with Rep. Chaka Fattah, D-Pa., left, and Rep. Bob Brady, D-Pa., at the Sheet Metal Workers' Hall in Philadelphia, Monday, April 14, 2008. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about their economic lot. But many more seem to think it was no big deal _ and if there's a problem it's with the political slapfest that has followed.

Obama's comment, which the Illinois senator made during a San Francisco fundraiser last week, set off an exchange of insults between the final contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination as they vie for blue-collar support in the state's April 22 primary. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has criticized the comment as "elitist," while Obama has mocked the New York senator's own recent emphasis on support for gun owners' rights.

In interviews Monday in Pennsylvania communities like the ones to which Obama referred, Democrats on both sides of the race were divided over the controversy.

"It's so difficult to watch every word," said Mary Ellen Matunis, a Clinton backer from Shenandoah.

"I was not offended," she said. "Poor choice of words, but I think it was just misspoken."

Matunis, 56, is a retired teacher in this central Pennsylvania borough of barely 5,000 residents that was once a boom town of the anthracite coal industry. But that industry has been on the decline for longer than most residents have been alive, and the textile factories that followed are gone too.

Dennis Yezulinas, another Clinton supporter in Shenandoah, said he is more offended by the rhetorical fight that followed Obama's comment than by the remark itself.

"Not just for the good of the Democratic Party, but for the good of the country, they need to make it less contentious," said Yezulinas, a former state prison guard who has been laid off from a plant that manufactures doors in a neighboring town.

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In the southeastern Pennsylvania community of Coatesville _ a once booming steel city outside of Philadelphia that now has empty storefronts downtown _ two Clinton supporters sharing a meal at a Coatesville restaurant said they felt Obama was wrong to stereotype small-town voters.

"It's like we're not smart enough to understand what the politicians are saying. It's an insult to our intelligence," said Susan Kamerdze, 50.

Mike Zemacke, 57, said that, while Coatesville has seen better days, he's not bitter. He said he used to work as a press operator before a disability led him to retirement.

"I'm just frustrated," he said. "I used to live a lot better than this."

At another Coatesville eatery, lifelong resident Armon Richardson said he remains firmly committed to Obama.

"We're getting in the silly season," said Richardson, 33, a computer analyst. "It's being overanalyzed."

In Pottsville, a city south of Shenandoah that also thrived during the coal boom and is now known as the home of Yuengling beer, coffeehouse owner Mary Ann Price, 56, said she is undecided about which candidate will get her vote in the primary, but that Obama's remarks won't affect her decision. She said she is more concerned about U.S. standing in the international community.

"The whole world hates us, and with good reason," she said.

Mike McGeever, 47, a Clinton backer who works for a neighborhood revitalization agency in Pottsville, called Obama's comment "uninformed, rather than elitist."

"To throw a blanket indictment out there against the people in this area, it is definitely patronizing," he said.

Truck salesman Bob Bildheiser, 49, said he is tentatively supporting Obama and that he agreed with the point that Obama was trying to make about the nation's economic problems.

"The people are bitter about the economy, about jobs, about the gas prices. It's terrible," he said.

At the California event, Obama said some small-town voters bitter about their economic circumstances "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Clinton, who polls show still leading in the Pennsylvania primary, criticized the comment as "elitist and divisive," and suggested that it could cost Democrats the presidency if Obama were the nominee. Obama said he was disappointed by Clinton's criticism and questioned her opposition to the NAFTA free-trade agreement that some voters believe eliminated thousands of U.S. jobs.

___

Associated Press writers Kathy Matheson in Coatesville and Peter Jackson in Harrisburg also contributed to this report.

SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about th...
SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about th...
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I admit it. I am an elitist. Why the fuck would you want to elect someone no better than you are?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 04/15/2008
- cdub1991 I'm a Fan of cdub1991 64 fans permalink

THANK YOU! I'm pretty smart and talented--and yes--I want my president to be even smarter and more talented. I don't need to drink a beer with him or her, as long as they are working to make sure I have a job so that I can afford my own beer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:50 PM on 04/15/2008
- rmetz74 I'm a Fan of rmetz74 10 fans permalink

THANK YOU!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:41 PM on 04/15/2008
- bobo209 I'm a Fan of bobo209 9 fans permalink

Treatment of great president jimmy carter by the israelis how dare these ungreatfull rats treat him like this..NO MORE AID TO THIS FREE LOADING RASCIST ENTITY..TAX PAYER..

.Jimmy Carter faced a cold reception in Israel yesterday where senior political leaders avoided meeting him and the Israeli secret service declined to help the American agents guarding him.

Ehud Olmert, who has not managed to achieve any peace agreement during his public life, and who even tried to undermine negotiations in the past, "could not find the time" to meet the American president who is a signatory to the peace agreement with Egypt..
The Israeli security service Shin Bet declined to meet the head of Carter’s US secret service detail or provide assistance. One US source told Reuters the snub was “unprecedented”. An Israeli security source told the news agency no request for help had been made, though Carter’s delegation insisted it had. The authorities also refused permission for him to meet Marwan Barghouti, a popular Palestinian activist regarded by some as a future leader, who is in an Israeli jail for murder.

Zionists have managed to unforgivably drag their religion's name through the mud for more than 60 years

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 04/15/2008
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If you are interested in the PA local papers views on the "bitter" flap, Uncle has done a great job of listing the different papers with his own take which is pretty funny!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/15/81433/7245

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 04/15/2008
- AjicNYC I'm a Fan of AjicNYC 4 fans permalink

100 PA MAYORS EDORSE HILLARY today !! Thats cool Go HIllary you can do it!!!1

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 04/15/2008

You are as bad as the msm! She invited 100 mayors, dimwit, only 19 showed up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 04/15/2008
- Pupster I'm a Fan of Pupster 15 fans permalink

That is hilarious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 04/15/2008

Would you care to cite this?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:09 PM on 04/15/2008

You are a lie in the grunt! Breaking News...14 showed the hell up.

Yeah I think I will follow you for a minute...you Liar! lol

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 04/15/2008

Obama is disintegrating. His warrior God image is fading.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 04/15/2008
- Hare I'm a Fan of Hare 30 fans permalink
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Evidence please?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 PM on 04/15/2008
- Binx101 I'm a Fan of Binx101 30 fans permalink
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Moments ago I heard the ad that Hillary is running in PA - replete with Obama says: Bitter / Cling / God

Had enough yet ??

Hillary Clinton has adopted the posture that it doesn't what you say - even when you know ... repeat ... even when you know you are lying - As long as it will get you elected. This sounds way too familiar.

She has adopted reckless behavior and thankfully the good people of PA are not stupid. The Clinton camp has over played their hand with a cadre of unsavory individuals, which sadly, ED RENDELL has volunteered to be the Grand Marshall.

Binx101
The Almost Daily Binx
www.binx101.wordpress.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 PM on 04/15/2008
- Wingit I'm a Fan of Wingit 8 fans permalink

This will go on until the last days. Then the 72 hour trick straight from the Carl Rove playbook will come into play. One candidate comes out with a last minute smear campaign that the opponent has no time to respond to before the voting starts. Guess which candidate will pull that dirty trick?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:04 PM on 04/15/2008

no dirty tricks necessary. these two are digging their own holes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 04/15/2008
- Plowboy I'm a Fan of Plowboy 25 fans permalink

I am indeed angered, but not by Obama's remarks. I've heard these before. The same analysis is in his book. It is not, as some lying or just plain ignorant, Clinton supporters claim, but an exact statement of the facts. His interaactions with people in Galesburg after the Maytag plant there closed and moved the jobs to Mexico, formed the basis of his discussion.
I am angered at the disagreeable person who can't compete on the basis of her merit, so resorts to twisting, distorting, ans spinning her better opponent's words. She is not at all trustworthy, Didn't she claim to be anti-war before Barack? But shev not only voted for the damned war (and let's not forget such real issues!) but she even voted for more war with Kyl-Lieberman. (But old Joe was her favorite Democrat, until he wasn't one anymore.) She and her DLC fvriends would be more honest if they all went the way of therir great pal Joe.
Please see what Hillary and friends looked like in 2006.
http://www.cnn.com/2006//POLITICS/01/20/ivins.hillary/index.html
Of course, Molly was a real democrat, and an honest jourtnmalist. (Are there any like her today? Where?)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 04/15/2008

Molly Ivins died too soon and we could surely use her great, wonderful voice of reason (tinged with humor) now. Yet, she did leave us with a warning -- no more triangulation!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 04/15/2008

The biggest Mrs.Clinton has committed here is taking the under estimating the intelligence of voters in Pa., with that ridiculous advert.

People will see her for what she really is - and it ain't pretty

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:21 PM on 04/15/2008
- cramos I'm a Fan of cramos 2 fans permalink

When you build your life on lies ......this is what happens

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 04/15/2008

It appears that (according to both Hoyle and Obama) those that support BO are bitter because of their esoteric comprehension of the terrible condition this country is in and therefore, by supporting BO, need no other "crutch" other than faith in his message of "hope." Meanwhile, those who do not support him are bitter for more mundane reasons and since these small town folks are without his message of "hope", they hold on tightly to their religious beliefs, firearms and suspicious feeling about people who are different. OB is merely explaining to his flock why the unconverted are as they are and how they cope with being such unwise individuals. Now what's wrong with that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 04/15/2008

Actually, you used the word "crutch"; whereas this word is significantly absent from Senator Obama's own statement. Personally, I cling to many things to get through hardtimes. I do appreciate the hope Senator Obama has offered me that tomorrow can be better than today, but this is not my sole form of solace. I don't presume to know how anyone else gets through their days or copes with the last 7+ years of incompetence, corruption and generally pathetic governance. I am also not a member of a flock for Senator Obama. I am a supporter of Senator Obama's. Perhaps you should take note yourself of how much you sound like someone desperately trying to find an explanation for Senator Obama's phenomenal success. I can assure it neither because Senator Obama has mesmerized us, nor because Senator Obama has ensared us into a cult. This is simply Senator Clinton's spin of the phenomena and I note this is much more insulting to millions of voters than anything contained in Senator Obama's statement to which you refer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 04/15/2008

The formula for his success is not difficult to understand at all (I'll be happy to present it to you if you want all the details) but for many, like yourself, difficult to resist. I assure you, those of us who abhor the Republicans and what they've done to this country and have decided none the less to support Hillary, have no false illusions about her negatives. We simply believe that the lightweight superficially concocted Obama is not capable of doing the job Hillary would most certainly do. Although you disclaim having felt the rapture of his calling, you must honestly acknowledge that for the most part, his message is messianic, his followers are cult-like and are mesmerized and the more we see and learn about him, the less we will like him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 04/15/2008
- kburlz I'm a Fan of kburlz 23 fans permalink

So another election comes down to a verbal slip up. A sad statement about this country that we buy this fake outrage in the media. Just like Kerry voted for it before he voted against it (we all know how the senate works, or the Dean scream, or Gore's internet. Anybody who looks at this closely will see what he was trying to say. Why would be mean to begrudge churchgoers when he goes to Church? And as for the 2-1 ratio, that would be one clinton supporter and one Mccain supporter per Obama supporter. It's all biased fake outrage. If it does hurt Obama, it's a tragedy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 PM on 04/15/2008

Your point?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 04/15/2008

National polls also indicate that Obama would defeat McCain by 2-4%, but that McCain would in turn thump Clinton by 7-10%. You wish to talk about who has a real chance and being real? That's real for you. Only the Democrats would take their second best candidate and try to win an election with her. That is the reason why we independents have such a difficult time taking the Democratic party seriously.

Here is something for ALL Democrats to consider. Clinton is running on the same platform that McCain is. Every single thing that Clinton has to say about Obama, McCain will be able to say about Hillary, except have 10 times the ammunition to support his position. The ONLY hope for Democrats is to run a candidate with a different platform who can challenge McCain on every issue from a dramatically different position. Clinton is running right from the McCain playbook, and she is a light weight compared to McCain in every way. Obama is the only hope of defeating McCain, and its because he is so different from the Republican candidate. America is looking for change, and Obama presents that. Clinton and McCain represent the status quo, and if I have to choose between two status quo contenders I'm going with the more experienced. If it is status quo versus fresh ideas, I would likely give the fresh ideas a chance. That is the perspective of an independent whose vote you need.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 04/15/2008

I too am an independent which did not vote in the Va. primaries because I refuse to declare a political party to vote in a primary. I concur with you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 04/15/2008

Great post beloow 2bhumble! Thanks! See this link - all Obama supporters should see this link - HRC votes for sale!

http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=6143

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 04/15/2008
- Plowboy I'm a Fan of Plowboy 25 fans permalink

Isn't that why the Neocon controlled media carry every Clinton spin for days and ignore every truth that hurts her?
Why aren't Democrats asking what the Clintons did to get Scaife to love them so much? Scaife has not changed his policies. What did they do to get Murdock's support?
And why not ask Rush Limbaugh to discuss the reasons he has converted to the Clintonist faith?
These are not backers to give any anti-neocon a warm feeling?
Can Clinton answer the question perhaps? Ha!
There have been just too many well timed false reports, underhanded leaks, etc., from illegitimate sources, like the office of a Neocon Canadian PM!
And the corrections are always so shily ofered after the damage is done, though they were trumpeted full blast beforehand.
There have been many Clinton lies tyhat were unchallenged. Those that werer disappeared from the screen very quickly, but this fake faux pas will be drummed to death.
I hate lies! I recall a fellow named Goebbels. Sort of a Rovean Clintonista type, when it came to the truth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 04/15/2008

Check with Fox News. They have the highest ratings for truth....61%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:52 PM on 04/15/2008
- UkieOlie I'm a Fan of UkieOlie 85 fans permalink
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Pretty funny! LOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 04/15/2008
- cramos I'm a Fan of cramos 2 fans permalink

GEE ANOTHER FAKE UNSUBSTANTIATED STORY STORY ON HUFF POST. iMPOSIBLE!!!

More raw meat for the BO circle kerk

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/15/2008
- AjicNYC I'm a Fan of AjicNYC 4 fans permalink

lol circle kerk

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 PM on 04/15/2008

he got so excited trying to write it that he fumbled the keys! :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 04/15/2008

The Obama camp is desperate. He's not been doing so well recently. He even put the old flag pin back on. You kow it's serious.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 04/15/2008

In planetary science, there is a phenomenon called an E.L.E.: Extinction Level Event, such as an asteroid hitting the earth.

The 4/15 SURVEYUSA poll (THE most accurate poll in the 2008 primaries) shows Clinton ahead in Pennsylvania by 14. 4/15 Rasmussen poll has Clinton ahead by 9. 4/14 ARG poll has Clinton up by 20. 4/15 Quinnipiac poll has Clinton up by 6. That averages out to about a 12 point lead for Clinton in Pennsylvania, a landslide. New SURVEYUSA poll has Clinton ahead by 16 in Indiana.

Obama's "cling" comments are a politicial E.L.E. and that's why the superdelegates all over the country are in play. Remember, they can change their minds and allegiances at any time. If Clinton wins by more than 10 points in Pennsylvania, watch what happens with superdelegate switches to Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 04/15/2008

God you dopes get more pathetic by the day. Polls don't mean jack to you until you think it's in your favor. Well they don't mean jack to me ever. The Vote is the only thing that matters, so we'll see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 04/15/2008

You know, wildcatdiva, I used to find the venom from folks like you to be offensive. Now, I just smile and shake my head. Politics is politics. People disagree. You disagree with me. Fine.....calling me pathetic...and a dope...because you disagree with them has no impact on me at all. A good argument does. I do not think you are either pathetic or a dope because we disagree. This kind of venom is why the media is trashing HUFFPO so much. In any case, this pathetic dope wishes you well.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 04/15/2008
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How is 12 points now a landslide? She was supposed to win PA BIG. Now 12 points is BIG?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 04/15/2008

Anything in double digits is considered a landslide in a primary. In a general election, 5 points is a landslide.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/15/2008

Yeah, Just like anything less that 10 points is a win for Obama.
loss=win
north=south
east=west
up=down
black=white

Only in Obamaland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 04/15/2008
- cramos I'm a Fan of cramos 2 fans permalink

Nice to read your comment...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 04/15/2008
- cdub1991 I'm a Fan of cdub1991 64 fans permalink

Your choice of polls is very deceptive. Anybody who goes to Realpolitics.com will see a broader selection of poles. SurveyUSA and ARG are outliers from the rest--which of course doesn't mean they aren't correct. If you go the SurveyUSA's website, they acknowledge that the polls for PA are all over the place and that this is a frequent characteristic of PA polling. One comment I read indicates it might be a tendency to undercount the support for the loser. Be curious to know if anyone has a better reason for this; I'm not a statistician. Also, you have to be careful about averaging averages--you need the underlying data to do that correctly. In aggregate however, most of the poles indicate Clinton winning by single digits with the gap either closing or remaining stable. I'm sure most people acknowledge that Obama will lose PA. I think the consensus analysis is that any victory in single digits for Clinton, considering the massive lead she had going in, would be an effective Obama win. No, that's not double talk. It's just a question of delegate math.

As for all superdelegates being in play--don't forget that Obama is still ahead nationally among democratic voters by about 7-10%, which does seem to be a stable number that hasn't changed over the last week. There has been no E.L.E. event. (Perhaps we should lay off of the Science Channel? Not an insult--I'm just as guilty.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:29 PM on 04/15/2008
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