Pa. Voters Divided Over Obama Remarks

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MARK SCOLFORO | April 14, 2008 11:08 PM EST | AP

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Democratic president hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., center, is seen with Rep. Chaka Fattah, D-Pa., left, and Rep. Bob Brady, D-Pa., at the Sheet Metal Workers' Hall in Philadelphia, Monday, April 14, 2008. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about their economic lot. But many more seem to think it was no big deal _ and if there's a problem it's with the political slapfest that has followed.

Obama's comment, which the Illinois senator made during a San Francisco fundraiser last week, set off an exchange of insults between the final contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination as they vie for blue-collar support in the state's April 22 primary. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has criticized the comment as "elitist," while Obama has mocked the New York senator's own recent emphasis on support for gun owners' rights.

In interviews Monday in Pennsylvania communities like the ones to which Obama referred, Democrats on both sides of the race were divided over the controversy.

"It's so difficult to watch every word," said Mary Ellen Matunis, a Clinton backer from Shenandoah.

"I was not offended," she said. "Poor choice of words, but I think it was just misspoken."

Matunis, 56, is a retired teacher in this central Pennsylvania borough of barely 5,000 residents that was once a boom town of the anthracite coal industry. But that industry has been on the decline for longer than most residents have been alive, and the textile factories that followed are gone too.

Dennis Yezulinas, another Clinton supporter in Shenandoah, said he is more offended by the rhetorical fight that followed Obama's comment than by the remark itself.

"Not just for the good of the Democratic Party, but for the good of the country, they need to make it less contentious," said Yezulinas, a former state prison guard who has been laid off from a plant that manufactures doors in a neighboring town.

Story continues below

In the southeastern Pennsylvania community of Coatesville _ a once booming steel city outside of Philadelphia that now has empty storefronts downtown _ two Clinton supporters sharing a meal at a Coatesville restaurant said they felt Obama was wrong to stereotype small-town voters.

"It's like we're not smart enough to understand what the politicians are saying. It's an insult to our intelligence," said Susan Kamerdze, 50.

Mike Zemacke, 57, said that, while Coatesville has seen better days, he's not bitter. He said he used to work as a press operator before a disability led him to retirement.

"I'm just frustrated," he said. "I used to live a lot better than this."

At another Coatesville eatery, lifelong resident Armon Richardson said he remains firmly committed to Obama.

"We're getting in the silly season," said Richardson, 33, a computer analyst. "It's being overanalyzed."

In Pottsville, a city south of Shenandoah that also thrived during the coal boom and is now known as the home of Yuengling beer, coffeehouse owner Mary Ann Price, 56, said she is undecided about which candidate will get her vote in the primary, but that Obama's remarks won't affect her decision. She said she is more concerned about U.S. standing in the international community.

"The whole world hates us, and with good reason," she said.

Mike McGeever, 47, a Clinton backer who works for a neighborhood revitalization agency in Pottsville, called Obama's comment "uninformed, rather than elitist."

"To throw a blanket indictment out there against the people in this area, it is definitely patronizing," he said.

Truck salesman Bob Bildheiser, 49, said he is tentatively supporting Obama and that he agreed with the point that Obama was trying to make about the nation's economic problems.

"The people are bitter about the economy, about jobs, about the gas prices. It's terrible," he said.

At the California event, Obama said some small-town voters bitter about their economic circumstances "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Clinton, who polls show still leading in the Pennsylvania primary, criticized the comment as "elitist and divisive," and suggested that it could cost Democrats the presidency if Obama were the nominee. Obama said he was disappointed by Clinton's criticism and questioned her opposition to the NAFTA free-trade agreement that some voters believe eliminated thousands of U.S. jobs.

___

Associated Press writers Kathy Matheson in Coatesville and Peter Jackson in Harrisburg also contributed to this report.

SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about th...
SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about th...
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I find this so amusing.....the Obama defenders that is.

He was ansering a QUESTION......WHY CANT YOU WIN IN PA?

His answer: Bitter voters, who are gun nuts, relitgios nuts, bigot and xenophobes....


And you all act like he was saying something kind and truthful.

THAT IS WHY WE CALL YOU OBAMA-CULTISITS......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 04/15/2008
- linquistic I'm a Fan of linquistic 3 fans permalink

You heard "bitter voters who are gun nuts,..." come out of the mouth of Obama.?...I didn't hear that...could you send me the link where he said those words exactly as you stated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 04/15/2008
- uscitizen I'm a Fan of uscitizen 3 fans permalink

Hmm. I have read his exact quotes, and your rendition of them sounds suspiciously like a certain Bosnian landing under sniper fire :).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 04/15/2008
- ohioangel I'm a Fan of ohioangel 4 fans permalink

You're delusional. And your use of "we" implies that you belong to some sort of divisive sect. The fact that you refuse to use the exact quote and the context in which it was used negates your whole post and makes you look nothing more than childish. Dismissed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 AM on 04/15/2008

I wonder who you support? It comes gushing out of every oriface. Are you a bitter woman in your late 50's or early 60's? You tell me how the Republicans haven't exploited God and guns (gay marriage, abortion, gun rights) in the last 10 years? The Republicans sit there and tell everyone "ignore the man behind the curtain" when it comes to giving their buddies in big business a break. Then they get their local political buddies to get gay marriage ammendments on the ballot in 38 states, so the God and guns crowd have a reason to get to the polls. Bush ran on these values and painted Kerry as a sissy on these issues. I blame Kerry for not standing up for himself, but the Republicans were successful at using God and Guns to win elections. The Republicans don't want the God and Guns crowd to vote their pocketbooks...because they already picked it clean.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 04/15/2008

HE IS NOT RUNNING AGAINST A REPUBLICAN!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 04/15/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

The shocker of this story is how his apologists aren't even blushing a little bit. I knew, but it's odd when my observations are so validated by their reactions. They really do agree with him. The comments when he bombed in Ohio about how everyone there was racist weren't just the comments made by a few nuts on-line. That's the perspective.

And what is odder yet is that he still seems not to understand why his attitude is so offensive.

The only way to penetrate, I suppose, will be when that 56% of Americans who disagree with him according to the poll taken this week do so with their vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 04/15/2008
- Plowboy I'm a Fan of Plowboy 25 fans permalink

Do you blush when someone points out that in her attacks on him she embraces the words he used on Charlie Rose and in his book as though they were her own?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 AM on 04/15/2008
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Hi Ann: Love ya' sweety!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 04/15/2008
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Ann: aren't you in the Bay Area?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 04/15/2008
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Just for the sake of amusement, I wonder if anyone has taken the trouble to find out if the 'regular Pennsylvania folks' in Clinton's ad are really regular folks and if they're all even from Pennsylvania. They sure popped up for this ad pretty quickly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 04/15/2008
- ohioangel I'm a Fan of ohioangel 4 fans permalink

Pat Buchanan said that they came from campaign headquarters central casting lol.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 04/15/2008

Obama is an "elitist". So says the down-to-earth middle class lady, from the White House, Chappaqua, and Nantucket.

It is so disheartening to think that, with all the problems and opportunities in the U.S. and the world, this election could possibly be decided by an inept description of a cultural situation or perhaps one or two words, "bitter", or "cling".

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 04/15/2008

Bittergate: Mission accomplished Hillary!

Not! LOL

Well, well, well, it looks like the chattering classes inside the beltway actually don't speak for the working and rural voters. Shocked!

Well this gambit failed. What's next in the kitchen sink of sleaze and smear? What bs to distract us from the disastrous war and failing economy ???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 04/15/2008

THIS IS OUR TIME... I think that OBAMA supporters should live and breath these words and make it know to everyone that THIS IS OUR TIME ... a time for a new way of governing...a time for a man of principle, intellect, compassion and fortitude to guide our nation out of the quagmire that the Bush administration got us in.... America does not need to be perceived anymore as a nation of mental midgets if Obama is elected it will send fireworks off in the minds of the rest of the world that America is open and ready to embrace conversation as a means to an end and not confrontation .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 AM on 04/15/2008

Nope Sonny, it should be MY TIME and MY GENERATIONS!

And I am only 6 years older than Obama and I DON'T SUPPORT HIM!

He is TOO SLICK!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 04/15/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

What do you think is new about Obama, really?

He's even out there promising to convict Bushies.

What's different than we've seen over and over in Washington with that?

We''ll all be entertained by the latest trial.

Meanwhile, the real work goes begging.

How is he truly any different?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 PM on 04/15/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

Following the story on other sites and blogs, I find that it has monopolized for 4 straight days now. Hillary doesn't have the power to make a story have legs. Goodness knows, she's tried to draw attention to other stories, and they went nowhere. The fact that this is a huge election event is not due to Hillary. It's due to Obama.

He's adopted the position that he cannot see what the fuss is about. OK. But the Rasmussen poll shows that 56% of Americans disagree with his statement. Only 25% agree.

Now, translate that into the Fall election. What do you get? Disaster. That's what.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 AM on 04/15/2008

hey Annie get your gun!! when Queen Hillary" MISSPOKE" about Sniper Fire we are just suppose to look the outher way right?? she blatently LIED,noe Obama never lied, just simply told it like it is , and she is turning it into DUCK SHOOTING, WHISKEY SHOTS and WORSE, you can`t tell me that you don`t see this, if so you MUST BE BLIND.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:45 AM on 04/15/2008
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Ann: ^KISS^ Love ya' babe!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 04/15/2008

Hillary started this mess and she should be punted out of the democratic party she and what's his name.... there is no excuse for her to give talking points to the Republicans and the media to use against our "front-runner" and then for you to say..OH she has moved on it's now the media's fault....give me a break...........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 04/15/2008
- Plowboy I'm a Fan of Plowboy 25 fans permalink

Where did Clinton get the words she used in her attacks on Obama? Well, where else but from Obama? Now that is plagiary!

Here we have Hillary and we see how successful she is:
elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/13/clinton-continues-to-hit-obama-over-guns-religion-remark

And here is a short version of what Obama said in 2004 on Charlie Rose:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6oGF3cyHE7M

Let's hope that we are not so silly that we can fall for her (and Fox's) spin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/15/2008

A blanket indictment? He wasn't judging anyone, and he wasn't saying every single person in rural America, or even Pennsylvania was bitter, he was just making a common sense observation that there are people who are bitter. Some people are just ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 04/15/2008
- naturesway I'm a Fan of naturesway 12 fans permalink

You can be in our new club. It's called W.O.R.M.

What Obama Really Meant.
We need members fast. There is so much work to do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 04/15/2008
- zengirl I'm a Fan of zengirl 2 fans permalink

I think both Clinton and McCain should apologize to the American people for their elite ineptitude, for their inability to put together a coherent thought. Barack Obama has not made any remarks "against" small town America" he has spoken only of understanding frustration and anger due to hardship, and has outlined how he wants to help small town America to prosper once again. McCain is scared to death of Barack, just as scared as the Clintons are— hence the ridiculous attacks on Obama by these two Washington elitists. Obama's campaign is quickly approaching 1,500,000 financial supporters. His opponents are shakin' in their shoes. WE are the change. WE are Obama supporters, with our $5, $10 donations. WE are making history and changing America! Good, decent, honest people standing tall! YES WE CAN! :>)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 04/15/2008

Obviously, Sen. Obama must be out of touch with true frustration felt by millions of Americans. How dare he suggest we are bitter? We are neither bitter nor angry concerning the welfare of our daughters and sons in a five year old war. We are neither angry nor bitter about spending $14 million dollars a month in Iraq, while bridges collapse causing fatalities. No, Sen. Obama the bigger issue here is you choose the word "BITTER" instead of “ANGRY”. Had you used the synonym angry the media would be recognized for pushing NON-SENSE! This is the biggest farce to date. It is a witch-hunt. We are buying this farce “hook-line-and-sinker”. Are we so precondition to lies and empty promises that now Syntax has a divisive role in this election? Words do matter. Thus, let us not forget this infamous phrase “weapons of mass destruction” “Weapons of mass destruction” was forced-fed to us by the media. This phrase was propaganda at its poorest level. The media is as much to blame as the Bush Administration for moving us into war.
I cling to God. I could not describe anything more worthwhile to cling too. I love him religiously. Where I live some people religiously love their guns no problem! What is wrong with an accurate description of how we retreat into our individual social refuges? We are being force-fed NON-SENSE, but like the “weapons of mass destruction” propaganda I’m not swallowing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 04/15/2008
- Plowboy I'm a Fan of Plowboy 25 fans permalink

This should be a big issue but never will be: what did the Clintons do or promise to get Murdock and Scaife(!) to support her? If I am to believe what they spin today, am I also not to believe all they put out about the Clintons before? Only one conclusion is possible: since Murdock and Scaife haven't budged on their issues, the Clintons must have. (But THAT was behind closed doors, secret, like the way Neocons always work!)
The main issues should be the war and the economy. But we are being detracted -- as usual -- by spinning crap.
http://www.cnn.com/2006//POLITICS/01/20/ivins.hillary/index.html
but here you have a complete unspun statement of the "bitter clinging" issue.
http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2006/10/19/an-hour-with-illinois-senator-barack-obama
I think that two speeches have summed things up pretty well. They speak of our failure to live up to our ideals. One was Obama's speech in Philadelphia on race, and our perfecting of the union. The other is one that we should recall while the spin machines go silly:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0212-07.htm
One big reason our economy is tanking is that war.
Oh, yes, Clinton supporter Gov. Rendell says some Pennsylvanians won't vote for Obama because he's Black.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/15/2008
- WebDeb I'm a Fan of WebDeb 2 fans permalink

It started with Reaganomics and has continued through Bush. I had to leave PA so my family could literally live. It goes deeper than the steel industry jobs leaving. The introduction of DRGs to determine health care payments put money into insurance company pockets and has put our lives at risk for the sake of the dollar. NAFTA has compounded the problem with the loss of additional jobs. My siblings, who remained in rural PA are struggling but it has become a way of life for them. It's hard to have to leave family behind just to earn a living, and that is the personal choice I made, but others simply can't or won't because they are connected in so many ways. No one should expect them to.

A candidate that understands the plight of small towns across this nation, and having the courage to not turn a blind eye to it, but speak the truth, is something my family is thankful for. People all over this nation are grateful for someone who FINALLY tells the truth!

I made a flyer, and bumper stickers that you can download for free that say this very thing. TRUTH FOR A CHANGE! Obama '08. Go here and download them and print them for free.

http://www.clickfindbuyersguide.com/grandlake/vote.html

Lets help get the word out. TRUTH is important. We have to open our eyes before we can ever take the next step.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/15/2008
- ohioangel I'm a Fan of ohioangel 4 fans permalink

WebDeb said: "I had to leave PA so my family could literally live."

Same here. Ten years and counting now. My husband lost his job, car and we lost our home. We got out while we could and are thankfully doing much better but things in PA haven't changed much since we left.

Off topic: Good for Dan Rooney Sr. for endorsing Obama! His words were inspiring.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/15/2008
- billrott I'm a Fan of billrott 9 fans permalink

Does everyone not agree that the fundamental push of this year's election is a desire for change? Such desires do not come from people being happy with the status quo and the environment in politics of today. I really think Hillary has overplaying her hand and misread the voters on this one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 04/15/2008

Here are some prominent PA Clinton supporters that think Obama is not an elitest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcyhJSAjAr0

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/15/2008
- crazyv I'm a Fan of crazyv 8 fans permalink

aaagh- the whole point that Obama was making is that these folks were not dupes and not stupid. That since the Democrats who claimed to represent their economic interests had betrayed them it was perfectly rational for people to vote on guns, gays and gods - issues the Republicans would not betray them on. To use the favorite expression these days- the chickens of the DLC that are coming home to roost.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 04/15/2008
- naturesway I'm a Fan of naturesway 12 fans permalink

Please join out new club... WE call it W.O.R.M.

What Obama Really Meant.
We need lots of members to do some 'splainin'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 04/15/2008

Well thank heavens some people in PA are seeing this nonsense about Obama's remark for what it is. It's just the media exploiting a word which a lot of people are feeling around the US. I know I am frustrated about the economy, gas prices, war, etc., and I sure don't want to elect another fool in the White House who continuously lies, deceives, misrepresents, can't run their own campaign more or less finance it as the next President. Yes...that is you Senator Clinton! At least Obama tells the truth and has run his campaign with more integrity and competence than Clinton could ever hope to do. She's desperate and it's pathetic. I, too, cannot believe she is promising PA citizens to get their steel jobs back because you know those jobs are gone and can't be brought back. You want to vote for someone that just tells you what you want to hear and that has legitimately been caught lying time after time again? THink about it. She will tell you anything just to get a vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/15/2008
- billrott I'm a Fan of billrott 9 fans permalink

I wish I had the link to provide to you on the part of the steel mills. She made the pitch at the end of the conference with union members in Pittsburgh yesterday in her litany of statements at the close.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 AM on 04/15/2008
- ohioangel I'm a Fan of ohioangel 4 fans permalink

When my dad retired from U.S. Steel in the 80s he took early retirement because he knew that if he didn't that there would be no job for him soon. He went from a core steelworker to a plasticizer and then retired. If there was any chance that the mills would've stayed open or come back he never would have retired. He's bitter. And her "promise" is like a slap in the face to blue collar workers everywhere, not just in the steel industry. It's just another example of her lying about anything to gain everything and I sincerely hope that these out of work steelworkers don't buy her hype because they will be sorely disappointed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:26 AM on 04/15/2008
- Ashall I'm a Fan of Ashall 5 fans permalink

This silliness over parsing words does NOTHING to change the horrible problems we all face in today's world. Hillary can't get to Barack on issues so she constantly makes mountains out of molehills. I'm beginning to wonder which party Hillary actually belongs to. And I'm also wondering what is her real reason for so defiantly forging ahead when the battle is all but over. Do the Clintons owe rich businessmen or world leaders? With so much of their actual dealings hidden, one has to wonder why this hasn't yet become an issue. That would surely be #1 on a republican hit list.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:52 AM on 04/15/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

There's really been only one poll. Rasmussen. The link is on this thread. In that poll, the opinions divided right along candidate lines in Penn. Those who favored Hillary found the remark very disturbing. Those who favored Obama did not.

Those who had not followed the story found it less disturbing than those who had followed the story, indicating that Obama's focus switch to the bitter aspect worked to a degree. However, now the focus is on guns, religion, racism, and immigration, so that shift may not hold up for him.

When a broader slice of Americans were asked, a full 56% said they disagreed. Only 25% agreed with him.

That's devastating in terms of his electability.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 04/15/2008
- dutchess2 I'm a Fan of dutchess2 19 fans permalink

It is difficult to imagine those of us who believe there is a better way to select a POTUS than the politics of personal destruction, turning around to vote for Clinton when that is how they have campaigned.

I have absolutely hated the way Bush's Rovian team destroyed all his opponents, to leave such a poor quality last man standing. Its not the way to choose the leader of the free world.

So I will write in Ron Paul. He is the only candidate that also offers to bring the troops home.

Some of his ideas are different, but he is a strict Constitutionalist...he knew from day one that
true conservatives don't start unnecessary wars, and he knows this one was particularly unjust.

I want a message to the complascent McSames of our Nation....

I want a message to the proponents of the politics of personal destruction that the Clintons have become.

I want a message to Bill Richardson and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, both of whom stepped foreward in the Clinton's hour of need, and both of whom they have tossed under the bus.

I want an end to the feeding frenzy of reporters and pundits that can't say 'that's rediculous' and parse
every little word out to satisfy the Bush and Clinton campaigns...lazy, bigoted, racist reporters don't get to choose our POTUS.


so tell the superdelegates this long term form Clinton supporter expects them to be as discerning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 04/15/2008
- AnninCA I'm a Fan of AnninCA 54 fans permalink

Interesting choice...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 AM on 04/15/2008
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